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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / March 2005Vegetarian Cat
I don't normally watch this tripe but I was just looking in the TV Guide to see if there was anything decent on TV tonight and saw this for tonight's episode of Wife Swap, "A Kentucky hunting mom steps into the peaceful life of an animal activist in Arizona who only eats raw food and is raising a vegetarian cat." We know cats can't healthily be vegetarians since they are obligate carnivores so this should be interesting...or sad. Since I also live in AZ and am also a vegetarian, I am anxious to see what this woman is like. Sounds like she might be nutty. I imagine the Kentucky hunting mom will try to slip that kitty some meat or go rat hunting with it. Candace >>I imagine the Kentucky hunting mom will try to slip that kitty some meat or go rat hunting with it. LMAO! I hope so for the poor kitty's sake. > I don't normally watch this tripe but I was just looking in the TV > Guide to see if there was anything decent on TV tonight and saw this [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Candace I'm vegetarian but give my cat cat food (although the smell does make me feel sick). I don't think it's fair to keep a cat veggie because they need all the minerals etc that are in cat food, but I believe you can get veggie cat food which is OK (probably really expensive though). If she was a true animal activist she wouldn't keep pets! > If she was a true animal activist she wouldn't keep pets! This is patently untrue. I really wish people wouldn't anthropomorphize. It does more harm to animals than almost anything else.  Signaturehttp://www.slywy.com/ > > I don't normally watch this tripe but I was just looking in the TV > > Guide to see if there was anything decent on TV tonight and saw this [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > can get veggie cat food which is OK (probably really expensive > though). If she was a true animal activist she wouldn't keep pets! I was just about to welcome you to the group. Welcome, Marcia. It is not "fair" to keep a cat "veggie?" They are carnivores and will, among other things, go blind without cat food. It is not minerals they need so much as amino acids which come from animal products only. (I'm talking about taurine specifically.) As for "If she was a true animal activist she wouldn't keep pets!" would you like to explain that? These are domesticated animals who need humans and do not fare well in the wild. Is "keeping: them somehow condescending? Do you think they should be emancipated and get jobs and little kitty suits? Please explain. > As for "If she was a true animal activist she wouldn't keep pets!" > would you like to explain that? These are domesticated animals > who need humans and do not fare well in the wild. Is "keeping: > them somehow condescending? Do you think they should be > emancipated and get jobs and little kitty suits? Please explain. I believe she's thinking of animal activists like this: * Pet ownership is an absolutely abysmal situation brought about by human manipulation." -- Ingrid Newkirk, national director, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), Just Like Us? Toward a Nation of Animal Rights" (symposium), Harper's, August 1988, p. 50. * I don't use the word 'pet.' I think it's speciest language. I prefer 'companion animal.' We would no longer allow... pet shops... Eventually companion animals would be phased out." -- Ingrid Newkirk, national director, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), Harper's Magazine, Aug. 1988 * "The bottom line is that people don't have the right to manipulate or to breed dogs and cats ... If people want toys, they should buy inanimate objects. If they want companionship, they should seek it with their own kind. -- Ingrid Newkirk, national director, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), Animals, May/June 1993 * "You don't have to own squirrels and starlings to get enjoyment from them ... One day, we would like an end to pet shops and the breeding of animals. [Dogs] would pursue their natural lives in the wild .. they would have full lives, not wasting at home for someone to come home in the evening and pet them and then sit there and watch TV," -- Ingrid Newkirk, national director, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), Chicago Daily Herald, March 1, 1990. *"The cat, like the dog, must disappear... We should cut the domestic cat free from our dominance by neutering, neutering, and more neutering, until our pathetic version of the cat ceases to exist." -- John Bryant, Fettered Kingdoms: An Examination of A Changing Ethic (Washington, DC: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), 1982), p. 15. > > As for "If she was a true animal activist she wouldn't keep pets!" > > would you like to explain that? These are domesticated animals [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > (Washington, DC: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), > 1982), p. 15. Wow. How sick is that? >Wow. How sick is that? It's pretty bad. Haven't you heard about people freeing animals because they should be free? They would rather have them die on teh streets and be "free" rather than pampered and healthy and "enslaved". It is really a shame. I think most of us would agree that animals should be treated humanely and well cared for.. But PETA and other groups have gone way over the edge. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > >Wow. How sick is that? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > should be treated humanely and well cared for.. But PETA and other > groups have gone way over the edge. I have not heard of that stuff. Very sad. Sometimes I think stupidity is one of the Great Evils of the world. Wow! I was unaware of this! I support PETA for their efforts to end animal cruelty and suffering, and to improve conditions for animals where necessary. I definitely believe in spay/neuter - - - there are always far more than there are good homes for, but I had no idea that PETA really wanted companion animals to be phased out. If you are good to them..... I would hate to live without my cats. They are both SPCA rescues. Without adoption by someone they would be eventual euthanasia statistics. That is really sad, as they are both wonderful! (Osker is 14, Winkye 3.) Thank you for the information, Jennifer! It just goes to show that one is never to old to learn! :) Melody > * Pet ownership is an absolutely abysmal situation brought about by > human manipulation." [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > (Washington, DC: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), > 1982), p. 15. > Wow! I was unaware of this! I support PETA for their efforts to end animal cruelty and suffering, and to improve conditions for animals where necessary. > I definitely believe in spay/neuter - - - there are always far more than there >are good homes for, but I had no idea that PETA really wanted companion animals >to be phased out. They don't. It's just hype from the anti-AR crowd. See: http://www.peta.org/mc/factsheet_companion.asp -L. > I believe she's thinking of animal activists like this: It's really easy to take snippets of whole speeches and cut them down to mean what you want them to. I know Ingrid Newkirk and she has dogs - three to be exact. Not hardly someone who thinks the way you want to paint her, here. PeTA advocates adopting animals from shelters. It is abundantly clear on their webpages: (from http://www.peta.org/mc/factsheet_display.asp?ID=29) "What You Can Do * Spay or neuter dogs and cats. * Adopt from shelters--and don't forget adult animals, who are often overlooked by people looking for a puppy or kitten. <snip> * If possible, adopt two animals. Animals need both human and animal companionship. Having an animal friend can help alleviate the boredom and loneliness of long hours spent waiting for you to come home." The following link has a list of their policies on companion animals. To imply that PeTA, and more specifically, Ingrid Newkirk, is against humans having companion animal relationships is disingenuous, at best. http://www.peta.org/mc/factsheet_companion.asp But I think I have had this argument with you on more than one occassion, IIRC. -L. > > I believe she's thinking of animal activists like this: > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > But I think I have had this argument with you on more than one > occassion, IIRC. So Lynnie is a censor, a pseudo-socialist and a PETA supporter. Not breaking any IQ records, are we doll? :) > It's really easy to take snippets of whole speeches and cut them down > to mean what you want them to. I know Ingrid Newkirk and she has dogs [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > http://www.peta.org/mc/factsheet_companion.asp I agree. I'm a long time PETA supporter. Yes, they're too radical for the mainstream, I suppose, although I prefer radicalism myself but you need extremes to accomplish anything...it sort of settles in the middle then. Anyway, the dopey Wife Swap show wasn't even on. There was something on instead that was a vacation swap where some rich people were exposing some not-so-rich people to their vacation. I was bummed as I wanted to see the poor veggie kitty. I don't know how to ever find it now, it doesn't look like that show is on at all next week. Candace > I agree. I'm a long time PETA supporter. Yes, they're too radical for > the mainstream, I suppose, although I prefer radicalism myself but you > need extremes to accomplish anything...it sort of settles in the middle > then. Personally, I don't think they are all that "radical". Look at their policies on companion animals, for example. Not much different than the mainstream group-think here. They have a really bad PR department - they do really stupid "stunts" and have taken flak from other AR groups (and the public) for years about it. One thing they do well is to get issues into the media. I wish they would focus more on promoting the grass-roots work they do, like publishing the fact that they were the first organization to get a NIH researcher prosecuted for animal cruelty and neglect. Much of the good they do, you never hear about unless you are educated on AR isssues, or in the field, as I am. It's all overshadowed by their stuipd PR "stunts". > Anyway, the dopey Wife Swap show wasn't even on. There was something > on instead that was a vacation swap where some rich people were > exposing some not-so-rich people to their vacation. I was bummed as I > wanted to see the poor veggie kitty. I don't know how to ever find it > now, it doesn't look like that show is on at all next week. hummmm....did you check the website for the show? RE: vegetarian kitties. We had one (vegan) that came into the vet on a regular basis. Cat was wasting away - owner refused to acknowledge that the cat's diet was the source of the problem. Eventually the cat had to be hospitalized, we kept her for about 3 weeks (IIRC) and she was fed regular cat food and improved. I never found out if the idiot owner finally accepted the fact that the cat needed meat. -L. > > It's really easy to take snippets of whole speeches and cut them down > > to mean what you want them to. I know Ingrid Newkirk and she has [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > need extremes to accomplish anything...it sort of settles in the middle > then. Oh, yes, Candace, I can tell you're a real radical. > Oh, yes, Candace, I can tell you're a real radical. I don't imagine you know me well enough to make that sort of judgement. Actually, I am, and as I am involved with mainstream people everyday, I think I can gauge it pretty well. All I know is I'm not one of them, thankfully. Candace > > Oh, yes, Candace, I can tell you're a real radical. > > I don't imagine you know me well enough to make that sort of judgement. > Actually, I am, and as I am involved with mainstream people everyday, > I think I can gauge it pretty well. All I know is I'm not one of them, > thankfully. Let's just say your Usenet persona does a good job of concealing your, ahh, "radicalism." > Let's just say your Usenet persona does a good job of > concealing your, ahh, "radicalism." Yeah, it's called civility. Why would I have to display any sort of radicalism, conservatism, whatever in a cat newsgroup? There's not much radicality involved in cat issues. Candace > > Let's just say your Usenet persona does a good job of > > concealing your, ahh, "radicalism." > > Yeah, it's called civility. Why would I have to display any sort of > radicalism, conservatism, whatever in a cat newsgroup? There's not > much radicality involved in cat issues. Right. You are radical in the way that Martha Stewart is a hardened ex-con. Context is everything. > Right. You are radical in the way that Martha Stewart is a hardened > ex-con. Context is everything. Hmmm, have we met? Fascinating that you have me all figured out. I wouldn't presume as much with you and you are a lot more omnipresent on usenet than I am (again, thankfully). Candace > > > Let's just say your Usenet persona does a good job of > > > concealing your, ahh, "radicalism." [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Right. You are radical in the way that Martha Stewart is a hardened > ex-con. Context is everything. Okay, I'm 'lost', here. How would we know how radical Candace is in her views on various issues? One's degree of radical-ness - or lack thereof - doesn't necessarily have anything to do with one's persona -their demeanor - on the ng, or even in daily life. Unless a person is forever preaching their views & obnoxious about it, it's not something you'd know about that person unless you got into a discussion about the issue(s). You could work alongside someone every day, & have no clue about some of their beliefs - which might well be very different from that of the mainstream. Unless you got into some deep lunchtime discussions. ;-) Cathy > > > > Let's just say your Usenet persona does a good job of > > > > concealing your, ahh, "radicalism." [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > which might well be very different from that of the mainstream. Unless you > got into some deep lunchtime discussions. ;-) I'm psychic. :) Candace is as radical as Wonderbread with the crust cut off. It came to me in a dream. > You could work >alongside someone every day, & have no clue about some of their beliefs - >which might well be very different from that of the mainstream. Unless you >got into some deep lunchtime discussions. ;-) Isn't that the truth. One of my best friends (and coworker) is totally opposite of me in terms of politics. She is much more outspoken, so I hve heard her opinions and jokes on many many occasions. I rarely agreed with her, so I would assume I didn't come across as very enthusiastic, and I disagreed many times. Only recently did she learn that i do not agree with her politically. I was actually quite surprised that she didn't know - I thought I had spoken up on many occasions, but she was just oblivious, I guess. It is interesting to discuss the various issues with her. We have totally different backgrounds, so our opinions are very different. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > Okay, I'm 'lost', here. How would we know how radical Candace is in her > views on various issues? One's degree of radical-ness - or lack thereof - [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > which might well be very different from that of the mainstream. Unless you > got into some deep lunchtime discussions. ;-) Completely agree. I purposely avoid having discussions about my hot-button issues at work. Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca >> I don't imagine you know me well enough to make that sort of judgement. >> Actually, I am, and as I am involved with mainstream people everyday, I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Let's just say your Usenet persona does a good job of concealing your, ahh, > "radicalism." I dunno. I have extremely radical beliefs compared to many people I know, but I don't think I come across as a radical, at least on usenet. Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca > >> I don't imagine you know me well enough to make that sort of judgement. > >> Actually, I am, and as I am involved with mainstream people everyday, I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I dunno. I have extremely radical beliefs compared to many people I know, but > I don't think I come across as a radical, at least on usenet. All anyone knows about anyone else on Usenet is whatever one cares to divulge, some or none of which might actually be the truth. Who cares? Seriously? I definitely don't care how "radical" some person on Usenet is - or anything else about their beliefs. In fact, with few exceptions (those being people I have friendships with IRL, or those with whom I share a special bond through a specific support group), I don't care about people on Usenet, at all. -L. > > >> I don't imagine you know me well enough to make that sort of > judgement. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > with whom I share a special bond through a specific support group), I > don't care about people on Usenet, at all. lol > It's really easy to take snippets of whole speeches and cut them down > to mean what you want them to. I don't care much either way... I don't know much about PETA except that I am wary of their politics... but I am hard pressed to think of a context in which this quote: "We should cut the domestic cat free from our dominance by neutering, neutering, and more neutering, until our pathetic version of the cat ceases to exist." could be misinterpreted :) > But I think I have had this argument with you on more than one > occassion, IIRC. Definitely not... I'm a mostly-lurker in many groups and have never gotten into any PETA discussion on Usenet, afaik :) -- Jennifer > > It's really easy to take snippets of whole speeches and cut them down > > to mean what you want them to. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > -- > Jennifer The Peta people are out of their blinking minds, and so is Lynnie. I mean, Jezus, Pamela Anderson is their spokesperson. > > It's really easy to take snippets of whole speeches and cut them down > > to mean what you want them to. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > pathetic version of the cat ceases to exist." could be misinterpreted > :) Read the links I provided. Their policies on companion animal,s including cat, are extremely clear. > > But I think I have had this argument with you on more than one > > occassion, IIRC. > > Definitely not... I'm a mostly-lurker in many groups and have never > gotten into any PETA discussion on Usenet, afaik :) Sorry. Confused you with another Jen/Jennifer I used to debate on talk.politics.animals or some other group, a few years ago. -L. > Read the links I provided. Their policies on companion animal,s > including cat, are extremely clear. Sorry, I was never trying to make any kind of point about PETA or their policies, just individual activists. PETA was only involved in my post because they're part of the quote citations. To clarify: PETA's official position is that all companion animals should be eliminated immediately. False. There are individual animal activists who believe that keeping pets is unnatural and inhumane. True. If you don't believe me, I could introduce you to some people :) -- Jennifer > > Read the links I provided. Their policies on companion animal,s > > including cat, are extremely clear. > > Sorry, I was never trying to make any kind of point about PETA or their > policies, just individual activists. PETA was only involved in my post > because they're part of the quote citations. What were your sources for the quotations? I assume they were cut and pasted from an anti-AR site, as I see the same ones pasted on different anti-AR sites again and again. It's merely propoganda and it's, like I said, disingenuous, at best. > To clarify: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > unnatural and inhumane. True. If you don't believe me, I could > introduce you to some people :) Oh I will never argue that point. :) But again, Ingrid Newkirk isn't one of them. The snipets you posted are actually parts of bigger speeches. You really have to read them in context to understand what was being said. -L. > > "Candace" <maccandace@aol.com> wrote in message > news:<1111630474.959108.123350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>... [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > them somehow condescending? Do you think they should be > emancipated and get jobs and little kitty suits? Please explain. I wouldn't keep my cat veggie, but isn't there a non-animal taurine? I know some people keep their cats veggie, and they seem to be OK, I assume there's a non-animal version of taurine in the food. I'm not saying I agree with them though. How come they go blind without cat food, is it in meat that they would eat if they were wild? I've only ever seen taurine on Red Bull :) I have a cat and I'm also into some aspects of animal rights so don't get me wrong, I supposer I'm a hypocrite, but I don't really believe cats are "domesticated", they choose to live with us as we feed them and as we all know, cat's prefer an easy life. I've seen them doing well for themselves in other countries where they're not spoiled by us humans and they soon revert to their "wild" state, hunting etc. It's just that the AR people I know say they don't keep animals as they think it's cruel especially having them neutered etc. > I wouldn't keep my cat veggie, but isn't there a non-animal taurine? It is not that simple, and it is not just taurine, Marcia. There are several essential amino acids that are only present in animal protein in quantities sufficient to be of use. This is why so many human vegetarians (as opposed to natural vegetarians, aka herbivores) get into trouble with nutrition. You have to be very careful about combining non-animal foods in order to make sure you are getting complete proteins. Frankly--you do not know enough about nutrition to even be trying vegetarianism safely, especially if you are true Vegan and not "lacto-ovo" e.g. one who drinks milk and eats dairy products and eggs--which have complete proteins. One of the first things a diet lacking complete protein does is make you ugly--your skin breaks out, hair gets dull and breaks, nails splinter--then you get sick. Complete proteins only found in animal sources provide materials for tissue repair such as new skin cells for the ones you slough off every day in the shower, healing of wounds, and just general repair and maintenance of your body. > I know some people keep their cats veggie, and they seem to be OK, I > assume there's a non-animal version of taurine in the food. NO. Cats are carnivores. They are meant to eat meat. Your friends are guilty of cruelty to animals. Here is a link that explains what they are doing to their cats: http://www.vegsoc.org/info/catfood.html I'm not > saying I agree with them though. How come they go blind without cat > food, is it in meat that they would eat if they were wild? I've only > ever seen taurine on Red Bull :) Of course it is in meat they would eat in the wild. It is in hair and eyeballs and such. By the way, you can also go blind just from iodine deficiency if you are vegan. I hope you will learn more about nutrition if you decide to continue being a "vegetarian." http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/343/8/585 > I have a cat and I'm also into some aspects of animal rights so don't > get me wrong, I supposer I'm a hypocrite, but I don't really believe [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > It's just that the AR people I know say they don't keep animals as > they think it's cruel especially having them neutered etc. I am leaving this alone. I fully expect you to be brighter than this until you prove me wrong. > > I wouldn't keep my cat veggie, but isn't there a non-animal taurine? > [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > I am leaving this alone. I fully expect you to be brighter than this until > you prove me wrong. I wasn't after an argument anyway, sorry if it seemed that way! My partner and I have been vegetarian (not vegan) for 15 years, he absolutely never gets ill, well possibly one headcold every year and I'm fitter than I used to be, but then he is a trained chef and cooks me very healthy food so I guess I'm lucky. Thanks for the info, very interesting reading. > > > I wouldn't keep my cat veggie, but isn't there a non-animal taurine? > > [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > me very healthy food so I guess I'm lucky. Thanks for the info, very > interesting reading. It you eat eggs and dairy, there are no worries. However, nutrition really is interesting, at least to me. I'm really glad you understand that cats need meat. I hope you are enough of a cat lover to educate your friends who are harming their own cats by feeding them things that cats do not eat. Of course, the cats may very well go outside and might be able to kill things to eat out there, so they might be okay. Still, your friends need to be educated before they blind or kill their cats. Candace - it is _possible_ to feed cats a purely vegetarian meal. UC Davis has a colony of cats that have been pure vegetarians for some years. But it certainly isn't a wise idea by any menas. Especially when most will not have the resources that Davis has to monitor what is going on in the cats. The Davis cats are primarily fed corn gluten meal. I believe they are several generations into the colony at this point. > Candace - it is _possible_ to feed cats a purely vegetarian meal. UC > Davis has a colony of cats that have been pure vegetarians for some [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > meal. I believe they are several generations into the colony at this > point. I feel sorry for those cats :( So what do they do, give them a lot of supplements then? SignaturePawsForThought I do not know. > > Candace - it is _possible_ to feed cats a purely vegetarian meal. UC > > Davis has a colony of cats that have been pure vegetarians for some [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I feel sorry for those cats :( So what do they do, give them a lot of > supplements then? I'm wondering that too. |
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