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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / March 2005jasper is a porky pig!!
Had to take the fuzzy butt to the vet today. That claw (or lack of) is still bleeding from time to time so I wanted it looked at. He was actually a good boy while there. He only hissed twice! Didn't even try to bite or freak out, though he did cry in the carrier on the way. But since I was able to be with him for the exam and hold him, he seemed pretty calm. Turns out he more or less declawed himself on one claw/toe. Obviously it is not quite as bad as if it were done surgically, but there is no claw or any sign of a new one growing. The tissue looks healthy, not infected so the vet thinks that when he bumps it or plays with it, it starts to bleed. It may stop over time or it may not. If not...she did suggest a one toe complete declaw...basically to stop it from continuing to bleed and be an open wound. She did not think stitching it would help. Any opinions on that? She also said that he should be strong enough to have some dental work done (most likely some extractions that would in the long run make him feel so much better) and that if we do need to fix the one claw/toe, we could do it at the same time. Since he is such an awful patient, they would put him in his carrier while still somewhat out from the anesthesia and then i could just take him home and let him recover. She does not think he would do very well recovering in a cage at their office. She also did think we could wait until summer when I have time off and then I can be home for his recovery period. Finally, he weighed in at a whopping 13 and one quarter pounds...which is nice since he was down to 11 when he was so ill. :) His appetite is no issue nowadays!!! Poor Jasper...blind, deaf, toeless, cracked tooth, shaved paw, bad breath...but damn if he isnt the koolest kitty around! :) Well..at least he's the coolest BOY kitty around this house! ;) Pam 1. The nailbed is still intact so the claw will probably grow back at some point. This sort of thing can take a lot of time and I would not do a one toe declaw based on the short time this has had to resolve. 2. If he has dental issues it should NOT wait until summer! Sorry, but based on what you've said I wouldn't even use this vet. Saying a dental would make him feel better, then following that up with saying you could wait until summer is totally contradictory in terms of his well being. If he's got dental issues, and especially considering the fact that there is discomfort involved and he also was so sick, I wouldn't be waiting for one more day and would have the dental done ASAP. For all you know, his dental issues may have caused his serious illness as bacteria from dental infections can easily invade the bloodstream and affect other organs. There may also be serious things going on that are only visible on xray, and I'd definitely do dental xrays if this were my cat. I'd do the dental now and take a wait and see approach with the claw. Megan  Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > 1. The nailbed is still intact so the claw will probably grow back at > some point. This sort of thing can take a lot of time and I would not do > a one toe declaw based on the short time this has had to resolve. The plan is to wait and see and the eventual, possible solution would be the one toe declaw. > 2. If he has dental issues it should NOT wait until summer! Sorry, but > based on what you've said I wouldn't even use this vet. I appreciate your opinion, but I have no reason at this point in time to doubt this vet. The practice is one that is highly esteemed in my area. > Saying a dental > would make him feel better, then following that up with saying you could [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > only visible on xray, and I'd definitely do dental xrays if this were my > cat. Well, that is just it. He was so ill and he is in my opinion as well as the vet's opinion still working on a full recuperation. He just finished all of his meds a few days ago, Megan. I am aware of the seriousness of dental issues, but I am also aware that this cat is deaf, blind, and old and is not a good candidate for oral surgery to begin with. Pam >I am aware of the seriousness of dental >issues, but I am also aware that this cat is >deaf, blind, and old and is not a good >candidate for oral surgery to begin with. You stated that your vet is going to do the surgery, so whether he is a "good" candidate isn't the issue. If you wait you could have the same thing happen again. I know sometimes we are faced with hard choices, but when it comes to dental issues where the vet says extractions are needed I wouldn't wait and especially wouldn't force my cat to be in discomfort for *months.* I had a cat with a severe heart condition who developed an infected and deteriorating canine tooth. It was extremely risky to put him under, but my vet and I both agreed that the havoc it could wreak on his heart if not taken care of would be much worse and we decided to do the surgery and use only gas with no induction agent. Unfortunately Omar threw a blood clot and died around midnight the night before the dental. If faced with a situation like this again, I wouldn't change anything and would still go ahead with the dental. Knowing myself how horrible tooth pain can be and the agony it can cause even for a few days, I feel no cat should have to suffer dental pain or be at risk from infection for months. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > You stated that your vet is going to do the surgery, so whether he is a > "good" candidate isn't the issue. I do think it is the issue because the vet felt that he should still recuperate a while longer and because of that felt that waiting the 8 weeks until I was done with school was appropriate. I also trust that she based that assessment on the condition of his teeth and therefore I feel comfortable with her advice. >If you wait you could have the same thing happen again.< And if he goes under anesthesia too soon, he could die on the operating table. There are risks either way and I *do* feel comfortable with the route we are taking. Believe me, Megan, I do not want this cat to suffer. And I appreciate your candor as well as your experience with cats. Still, I am going to go on the recommendation of my vet, whom I trust...and I will also keep your advice in the back of my mind and watch for anything going on with Jasper. Pam > > 1. The nailbed is still intact so the claw will probably grow back at > > some point. This sort of thing can take a lot of time and I would not do [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Pam It is so much better for the vet to err on the side of caution. As some people here point out, some appear to just forge ahead to rack up charges. And, though I know that bad teeth can cause many serious problems in all creatures, I have yet to allow any of my cats--even the young and healthy ones--to be put under anesthesia just to have a dental done. In cats that do not have dental problems, in my opinion the risk of the anesthesia is too great when compared with the benefit. In Jasper's case the risk is greater, and I share your confidence that your vet will know when the risk from the teeth outweighs the risks of the procedure/anesthesia for him. Now if you will just give him one more kiss on top of his shiny little head, I am done here. :) >>>1. The nailbed is still intact so the claw will probably grow back at >>>some point. This sort of thing can take a lot of time and I would not do [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > :) I think what is important here is that we have to weigh in not only the physical trauma of the dental work but the mental trauma as well. Being blind, deaf, and terrified more than your average cat while at the vet is not exactly paradise for him. While in the hospital the first time, he spazzed out so bad that is how he ended up with a missing claw as well as a cracked tooth. (These events did not happen at the same location either, so it's clearly not a case of mishandling or anything like that.) This cat has already been through the ringer and I am trying to keep the mental trauma to a minimum. To me, that almost outweighs the physical/health issues (to a certain extent) and I think the vet feels the same way. The specialist I dealt with when Jasper was in the hospital seemed to share the same concerns as well. I think I will call the vet again next week while on spring break and discuss this whole thing a little further, but I don't think we are totally wrong here. Pam Regarding trauma from vet visits- One thing you could do that will likely make the trip to have the dental easier is to do what I had planned to do with Omar had he lived. Omar was very stressed out by vet visits which was really scary considering he had severe heart problems. The arrangement I made with the vet was to bring him in just minutes before they would put him under for the dental and stay with him while they did it. I had planned to wait around while the procedure was done and then be by his side as he woke up and sit with him until the vet felt he was ok to go home. Since we planned on using only gas anesthesia, he would have been put in a small box which the gas goes into and it only takes a minute or two before they nod off, then a mask is put on the cat to continue administering the gas. I've had this done with cats before and it is very quick and the cats have not been too stressed about it. Once the procedure is done they simply shut off the gas. The time it takes to wake up is quite short and the cat is back to normal fairly quickly, so I would have only spent a few hours at the clinic. You might want to talk to your vet and see if this would be an option. Although Jasper can't hear or see you, he knows your smell and touch and probably would be much more relaxed if he can sense your presence during this time. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > Regarding trauma from vet visits- > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Megan I appreciate the idea and will definitely discuss with the vet! I want to be able to help him as much as I can which is only one more reason that I want to do it when I am not working. Summer break starts June 3rd! Pam > I appreciate the idea and will definitely discuss with the vet! I want > to be able to help him as much as I can which is only one more reason > that I want to do it when I am not working. Summer break starts June 3rd! > > Pam Hope it all goes well for Jasper & ( therefore you)with his dental work & his not-there-anymore claw. I agree that one knows one's own cat(s) & vet(s) the best, & then can temper that with advice from the internet which you believe to be sound. June *3rd*?! My summer break doesn't start till June 24th - you must've started school before Labor Day? Cathy > Hope it all goes well for Jasper & ( therefore you)with his dental work & > his not-there-anymore claw. I agree that one knows one's own cat(s) & > vet(s) the best, & then can temper that with advice from the internet which > you believe to be sound. No doubt I have learned a lot from this ng. I *do* appreciate the experience that many of the regular posters have and I don't take it lightly. But I have no reason to not believe in my vet at this point either. :) > June *3rd*?! My summer break doesn't start till June 24th - you must've > started school before Labor Day? Indeed. Almost 2 weeks before Labor Day!!! I'm on Spring break now though! WOOT! Pam > I think what is important here is that we have to weigh in not only the > physical trauma of the dental work but the mental trauma as well. Being [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > discuss this whole thing a little further, but I don't think we are > totally wrong here. You are not wrong at all. You and your vet know this cat and what is best for him. > "kitkat" <kitkatluna@aol.commie> wrote in message >>I think I will call the vet again next week while on spring break and >>discuss this whole thing a little further, but I don't think we are >>totally wrong here. > > You are not wrong at all. You and your vet know this cat > and what is best for him. It is easy to doubt yourself though. Even though Jasper has been doing quite well, I am totally on edge all the time waiting for the slightest thing to seem abnormal with him. Why cant the little buggers just live forever? Hrmph. Pam > I think what is important here is that we have to weigh in not only the > physical trauma of the dental work but the mental trauma as well. Being [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > I think I will call the vet again next week while on spring break and > discuss this whole thing a little further, but I don't think we are > totally wrong here. > > Pam Have you discussed the possibilitty of giving him an oral sedative before bringing him into the vet? It might make the "trauma" a little less severe, and cats don't remember what happened once the seds wear off completely. An oral sed can be given safely prior to anesthesia, and often is used for cats that are difficult to handle or don't travel well. -L. > Had to take the fuzzy butt to the vet today. That claw (or lack of) is > still bleeding from time to time so I wanted it looked at. He was actually [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Pam When you get his teeth taken care of his breath should improve. Purrs that his toe will heal without surgery. MLB > Had to take the fuzzy butt to the vet today. That claw (or lack of) is > still bleeding from time to time so I wanted it looked at. He was [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > and be an open wound. She did not think stitching it would help. Any > opinions on that? The only other option is surgical glue to seal the wound, and it has been shown to cause internal granulation of tissue, so I would opt for a declaw if the toe doesn't heal in the next week or so. > She also said that he should be strong enough to have some dental work > done (most likely some extractions that would in the long run make him > feel so much better) and that if we do need to fix the one claw/toe, we > could do it at the same time. Since he is such an awful patient, they > would put him in his carrier while still somewhat out from the > anesthesia and then i could just take him home and let him recover. She [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Pam Sounds like he needs the dental asap if there are teeth that need extracting and he has bad breath. Tooth decay can cause kidney and liver damage (from systemic infection and/or secondary metabolites from the bacteria) and this can happen quite rapidly if it is bad enough. I wouldn't put it off "until summer" if you can afford to have it done now. I'd give the toe a week - if it heals, then do just the teeth. If the toe is still bad, have it removed during the teeth cleaning. Neither procedure takes very long and it is likely that a tech will do the cleaning while the vet does the declaw, and then the vet wil do extractions. It all can be done in less than an hour if there aren't more than a couple of teeth to come out. HTH, and good luck, -L. |
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