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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / March 2005Starving Kitty...END OF THE ROAD - Last Chapter..
Well, Kitty really went downhill yesterday, Saturday...in the A.M. her left leg gave out..she was limping. Took her to the vet for her quartizone shot.. He watched her walk around, now she was more flat-footed. He said it was all related to the liver tumor, said that it was cancerous because if it was benign she wouldn't be having all this trouble. He said that I was doing the best thing possible for her, she's one month away from 14 years..not the best age for major liver surgery. He gave her the quartizone shot..I optimistically went across the street and bought about 10 cans of Friskies food..Plus a flea comb at the vets to come out the snits in her hair..Wish I had known about these combs during the years she was healthy!! When I got her home, I could tell she was really "off"..she hobbled around, could barely use her back legs..just sank in her bed, didn't gobble down her food like last week. Then, as the night wore on, things got worse, she wet herself, her right eye started twitching and tearing, and she started scratching it like crazy...Her bed stank, so I threw it out..Set up a "hospice" using the dressing area/bathroom (wood floor and tile floor - so no carpet to mess up..) Put a 15 watt bulb in the lamp..Put a cut up old baby blanket in a plastic bag and used that for her bed..Put her food/water/litter box nearby.. Problem was, today was Sunday, the vets was closed. I started to seriously think about euthanizing her on Friday...I figured if she didn't eat her dinner, that would be it..But she did eat Friday night! Gobbled the food down. But I could see the way she was I would have to do it..Couldn't go Monday morning when the vet was open because of work..The vet's answering machine recommended a local emergency pet hospital, so I brought her there, today, Sunday, for a final look-see-second-opinion. Place was nice, clean, well run. Vet said the same thing - she was in NO SHAPE for surgery..Liver way too enlarged, jaundice, weak, thin...He's seen too many cats like that die after a few months..So, he recommended putting her to sleep - really nice guy...spoke to me in a very nice way.. So I said goodbye..They have a good system..First they make Kitty sleep with injection, then they euthanize them while they're sleeping so they're not conscious of anything..Vet offered to let me stay while they made her sleep - but I said no..don't want any harrowing last memories.. So that's the end of the story...until the next Kitty (in a few weeks..) David > So I said goodbye..They have a good system..First they make Kitty sleep > with injection, then they euthanize them while they're sleeping so they're > not conscious of anything.. I'm sorry, David. I'm so sorry. > Well, Kitty really went downhill yesterday, Saturday...in the A.M. her > left [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > David many purrs! I'm very sorry. Cathy > So I said goodbye..They have a good system..First they make Kitty sleep > with injection, then they euthanize them while they're sleeping so they're [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > David I'm so sorry. David - I am so very sorry. I hope she is with my Elvis who just went to the Bridge on 2/22. It breaks my heart. Carol > Well, Kitty really went downhill yesterday, Saturday...in the A.M. her > left [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > David > Well, Kitty really went downhill yesterday, Saturday...in the A.M. her left > leg gave out..she was limping. Took her to the vet for her quartizone shot.. [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > David "Rise up slowly, Angel. It's hard to let you go..." Sincere condolences. MLB > Well, Kitty really went downhill yesterday, Saturday...in the A.M. her left > leg gave out..she was limping. Took her to the vet for her quartizone shot.. > > He watched her walk around, now she was more flat-footed. He said it was > all related to the liver tumor, Bullshit. The tumor was only *1.5 cm*! She was probably hypokalemic from not eating. Not enough liver tissue was affected to cause those effects - unless she had other issues that your bozo vet missed. I don't think your vet explained to you how liver tumors in cats work. As liver tumors grow, they push and compress normal functioning liver tissue. They don't *eat up* liver tissue. When the tumor is removed, the liver tissue that remains after surgery is actually almost all of the functioning liver that was maintaining homeostasis before surgery. Then regeneration begins. Your cat's tumor was only *1.5 cm*. How much functioning liver tissue could it have possibly displaced????? said that it was cancerous because if it > was benign she wouldn't be having all this trouble. Bullshit. Most liver tumors in cats are *benign*. If the tumor was malignant, it would have metastisized by the time it was discovered. He said that I was > doing the best thing possible for her, she's one month away from 14 > years..not the best age for major liver surgery. Bullshit. Older cats than she have undergone much more massive surgeries than she required. She needed to be stabilized - which your bozo vet *failed* to do. <snip> I'm truly sorry for your loss - but I'm also infuriated by the vet's gross negligence and incompetancy. I don't believe your cat should have reached such a grave condition where she had to be euthanized. I know you like your vet - but being a nice guy doesn't mean he's a good vet. Many incompetent and mediocre vets have good bedside manners precisely because they're incompetent and mediocre vets. If you adopt a cat again, please find a different vet. Well, the other vet spoke more about just the surgery itself..She just wasn't in good shape for surgery..She only weighed 9 lbs, he said if she was her old weight of 14 lbs, then it would have been OK..I just didn't want to spend $1000 plus to experiment.. Two vets had given me their opinion..It's easy to sit here and give opinions..Except I don't know you, don't know who you are, what your experience is, where you live, whether you're 12 or 120 years old, what you do for a living.. My experience with these message boards is that they're great for general information, but I'm the one here at Ground Zero making decisions, and I did not feel that it was worth taking the risk of surgery... The vet today told me that in his experience cats who are not in good health who undergo major surgery live six months at the most, and they are not the same. I would feel worse with spending tons of money and having the cat die after a few months..than sit here contemplating what might have been. Your hostility only hurts your credibility. Like it or not you are not a registered vetinarian, you do not have the experience or schooling that these people have. Ethel Merman used to say about the audience "If they knew how to do it, they'd be up here too"....If you feel so strongly about cats, then go and get your degree, put yourself on the line and set up shop. You need to ask yourself what your outlet would have been before the invention of the internet..It's titillating having your opinions broadcast before a worldwide audience...But the vets I dealt with have 50 years experience combined and like it or not I will trust them and go with their opinion. And both their opinions was that surgery was not advisable on this cat. David OK..I just didn't > want to spend $1000 plus That was the real issue, now wasn't it? As I said, that was the *only* part of your stories that made sense. I fully understand that some people just don't have that much money to spend - so I'm not criticizing you for not spending the money. I'm criticizing the bullshit stories your vet gave you and the terrible care he gave your cat. I'm not a vet, but I've worked with enough vets and enough cats with liver diseases to know a bullshit story and poor quality care when I see it. Either your vet gave you a bullshit story or you gave us one. This is Usenet, I didn't see your cat or hear your vet's story so I don't really know whether or not you exaggerated the seriousness of your cat's condition to justify euthanizing her to avoid spend more money - its been done. All I know is that in all my years of working with cats I've never seen or heard of a cat being euthanized for a 1.5 cm tumor that wasn't even *properly* diagnosed as malignant. In all probably it *wasn't* malignant because if it was, it would have already metastasized by the time it was diagnosed. She may have had other issues that your vet missed that led to her deterioration. As I said, I'm not criticizing you, I'm strongly suggesting you find another vet because if what you've told us is true, your vet should not be allowed anywhere near any animal. Money is a real issue, expecially when since the beginning of February I've spent over $1000 on diagnostics and quartizone shots..If the surgery were $250...I still probably wouldn't have done it. There were three vets I was working with at the Cat Hospital, plus the independent vet who euthanized her. I just didn't want to take the risk, and have her live only a few months..I would have felt ten times worse than I do now. The vet said that in his experience many cats at her age have complications and only live a few months. If you think about it, if the vets were acting only in their own self- interest, they would have recommended surgery for the $$$$, except that none of the did. If they felt like Kitty stood a chance, then they would have said so. Her condition was really bad, jaundiced, losing weight/hair, watering eyes... In retrospect, for my next cat I think I'm going to have an annual sonogram done to catch things..If we had caught the tumor last October when she was 14 lbs I would definitely have gone for surgery.. Too bad people can't post photos on this site, so we can see what eachother are talking about!! Yes, you're right about programmers, 1 year or 20 years, sometimes can make or not make a difference..This is illness, though, it's a long, frustrating experience. I feel like I have a weight off my mind, that's all I know.... David David, I had a wonderful cat that had lymphoma. I was told, years ago by a vet, that there was "Nothing I could do" for her. That was wrong. So I didn't do anything, and she actually went into remission for a couple of years, and I thought the vet was wrong about the lymphoma. Then she relapsed. I took her to a round of other vets who diagnosed FIP. That was wrong too. After treating her with various drugs, she lingered for another 2 years. I thought I was doing the right thing for her. But the end was awful. And when I look back at the pictures of her during that time, I realize she was really sick, and really miserable, and I shouldn't have allowed that. And even the new vets were wrong, because on autopsy they admitted that she did indeed have lymphoma. You did the right thing. Phil is arrogant, but he does know a lot. I've killfiled him long ago, because whether or not he knows a lot no longer matters to me. Life is too short to deal with bad attitudes. I hope he can get it together and become a bit more humble, because he'll do a lot more good that way--more people will listen! Because he is usually right :) Take care. > Money is a real issue, expecially when since the beginning of February > I've [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > David "David via CatKB.com" <forum@CatKB.com> wrote> > Too bad people can't post photos on this site, so we can see what eachother > are talking about!! You can post photos at alt.binaries.animals. > Money is a real issue, expecially when since the beginning of February I've > spent over $1000 on diagnostics and quartizone shots.. I swear, I think some people post about how much money they spent on their cat as if the amount represents what a good and responsible owner they are. > I just didn't want to take the risk, and have her live only a few months..I > would have felt ten times worse than I do now. The vet said that in his > experience many cats at her age have complications and only live a few > months. If your vet actually said that, he needs more experience - a lot more experience. > If you think about it, if the vets were acting only in their own self- > interest, they would have recommended surgery for the $$$$, except that > none of the did. If they felt like Kitty stood a chance, then they would > have said so. Not necessarily. If you gave them the same impression you gave me of your reluctance to spend money, I can understand why they recommended euthanasia - even if they believed she could recover. Sorry, Dave, I don't believe you. But don't feel bad, a lot of other people did. I get the impression you're exaggerating her condition to justify euthanizing your cat when the real issue was money. Despite the fact that your explanations and stories didn't ring true, I was still leaning towards giving you the benefit of the doubt until I read your later post where you said: "I might need all that money for ME if a problem came up" > I feel like I have a weight off my mind, that's all I know.... That's really what this has been about, Dave, *you*. >> would have felt ten times worse than I do now. The vet said that in his >> experience many cats at her age have complications and only live a few >> months. > >If your vet actually said that, he needs more experience - a lot more >experience. I would think health would be a more important factor that age. My oldest cat is 18 1/2, and I would consider him a good risk in his current condition for a surgery if he needed it. I would have the bloodwork checked again to double check that. But I would not expect to find anything that would make him high risk. On the other hand, the stray I took in several years ago was high risk and actually died after a a few days of diarrhea (with vet treatment). He was only 8 months old, but severly underweight and under nourished. Health issues are far more important than age, so a vet saying it wasn't worth the risk because of age, and especially a fairly young age, doesn't make any sense. It seems to me that the vet in the case should have worked at finding a way to stablize the cat's condition in preparation for the surgery. >> If you think about it, if the vets were acting only in their own self- >> interest, they would have recommended surgery for the $$$$, except that [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >That's really what this has been about, Dave, *you*.  Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > >> would have felt ten times worse than I do now. The vet said that in his > >> experience many cats at her age have complications and only live a few [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I would think health would be a more important factor that age. Absolutely. My > oldest cat is 18 1/2, and I would consider him a good risk in his > current condition for a surgery if he needed it. I would have the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > wasn't worth the risk because of age, and especially a fairly young > age, doesn't make any sense. Those are my thoughts exactly. Something isn't right. > It seems to me that the vet in the case should have worked at finding > a way to stablize the cat's condition in preparation for the surgery. Absolutely. Several aspects of this tragedy don't ring true - at least to my ears based on my experience. Nearly all malignant liver tumors already metastasize by the time they're diagnosed. The 'tumor' clearly wasn't malignant since there was no evidence or mention of metastasis. Metastasis would have been *the* deciding factor. The tumor also wasn't large enough (1.5 cm) to affect enough liver tissue and function to produce such serious signs and symptoms. I think other issues were involved. I guess we'll never know the whole story and the truth. Phil > You need to ask yourself what your outlet would have been before the > invention of the internet..It's titillating having your opinions broadcast > before a worldwide audience...But the vets I dealt with have 50 years > experience combined and like it or not I will trust them and go with their > opinion. I'm coming out of lurkdom to say one thing...(okay, a couple of things *LOL*) Phil was right about my cat not having FIP when THREE vets at my clinic said she did. That was over 2 years ago. The cat is still alive and healthier than ever (FIP is fatal within months). Good thing I didn't put her to sleep like the vets advised me to, eh? Two rounds of antibiotics at my insistence cured her. Guess it wasn't FIP after all. A degree doesn't make you God. In fact, it doesn't even necessarily make you competant. Vets (and doctors) are human. They make mistakes. Some are better at their jobs than others. Some keep up with new research and some are stuck back 50 years. I know programmers with 1 year experience that are better than the ones with 20 years. It isn't how long one's been doing something, but how long one has been getting new things to do, reading up, evolving with the times, and so on. In fact, people who have been doing things the same way for too long tend to get stuck in a rut and not see the forest for the trees sometimes. I am sorry for your loss. Losing a pet really bites. / back to lurking...and working Signature-- ~kaeli~ Every calendar's days are numbered. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace > > You need to ask yourself what your outlet would have been before the > > invention of the internet..It's titillating having your opinions broadcast [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > / back to lurking...and working All I have to say is that I am glad to know you're still alive. > All I have to say is that I am glad to know you're > still alive. Yup, still alive. Just busy. I have two jobs now. One is from home, but still. I can't keep up with all the threads...and arguing... *LOL* So I've just been lurking a bit during compiles. *heh* Signature-- ~kaeli~ All I ask is the chance to prove that money cannot make me happy. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace > > All I have to say is that I am glad to know you're > > still alive. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I can't keep up with all the threads...and arguing... *LOL* > So I've just been lurking a bit during compiles. *heh* Well, you have been missed. Love that sig!! >> All I have to say is that I am glad to know you're still alive. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I can't keep up with all the threads...and arguing... *LOL* So I've just > been lurking a bit during compiles. *heh* Remind me of where you keep your blog/journal/whatever you call it? Or has that had to take back burner, as well? Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca > Remind me of where you keep your blog/journal/whatever you call it? Or has > that had to take back burner, as well? Not too many new posts there, but it's in kaeli's space (see sig). (I KNEW I'd post too much if I posted even once...*LOL*) Signature-- ~kaeli~ Profanity: the single language in which all programmers are expert. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace >> Remind me of where you keep your blog/journal/whatever you call it? Or has >> that had to take back burner, as well? > > Not too many new posts there, but it's in kaeli's space (see sig). > > (I KNEW I'd post too much if I posted even once...*LOL*) Ah! My newsreader strips out sigs, except it really doesn't strip out most sigs ... so I wonder why it stripped yours and not most. Maybe because most people don't use the proper "-- " notation? Well, whatever, I googled for Kaeli's Space and indirectly found it. Thanks! Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca I'm very sorry, David. Such a hard decision to make. You just never want to believe that this is really happening. Thanks for taking such good care of her. Rhonda > Well, Kitty really went downhill yesterday, Saturday... >Well, Kitty really went downhill yesterday, Saturday...in the A.M. her left >leg gave out..she was limping. Took her to the vet for her quartizone shot.. [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > >David So sorry for your loss. You absolutely did the right thing. We've bred these little creatures for utility and comfort for millenia. Though they seem so strong, they are really very delicate. How wonderful we can give them companionship, a warm bed and regular feed while they're with us. It's really the best thing when we let them comfortably sleep. Thank god your vet could anesthetize your kitty before the final injection. I had to endure our poor Abbey plop down like a stuck pig. Though it's prolly little consolation, at least I know I can ask for this strategy in the future. Good luck with your next kittycat! There are so many strays to go around, it's wonderful when people are willing to help them out. It can't solve the problem, but it can make a difference for the life of one poor little castaway! BLink It's very touching the way everyone is contributing to this thread..After reading through everything - Yes, I could have give Kitty surgery, but I just didn't want to go that route. The vet who euthanized her said that if she was six years old, he would have encouraged it... The level of care that these pets receive now equals (actually I think it surpasses!!) humans - but it also raises issues that people have never had to deal with before.. I might need all that money for ME if a problem came up.....It's hard to say no when you are in the middle of all of this...The biopsy was really only appropriate if I was going to do surgery/chemo...But when I agreed, I wasn't informed the exact cost/procedures/time consumption...I didn't know the path I was going down.... Blood tests/sonograms - fine - because they're non-invasive. Kitty was ZAPPED after her ultrasound biopsy - from the anaesthetic...Took her days to bounce back from that. And I'm supposed to send her in for surgery? Well, next cat I will look into that sonogram once a year..And pet health insurance that includes/reimburses one health exam per year. Any suggestions as to companies?? thanks, David > Well, Kitty really went downhill yesterday, Saturday...in the A.M. her left > So I said goodbye..They have a good system..First they make Kitty sleep > with injection, then they euthanize them while they're sleeping so they're > not conscious of anything..Vet offered to let me stay while they made her > sleep - but I said no..don't want any harrowing last memories.. I'm very sorry for your loss, David. Be well. >So I said goodbye..They have a good system..First they make Kitty sleep >with injection, then they euthanize them while they're sleeping so they're >not conscious of anything..Vet offered to let me stay while they made her >sleep - but I said no..don't want any harrowing last memories.. I'm sorry for your loss, David. Tom <<So that's the end of the story...until the next Kitty (in a few weeks..) David >> I'm very sorry, David, I had hoped for a different outcome (as had you, I know). Too many kitties dying on this ng lately. I'm sorry for your loss, don't let anyone make you feel guilty for the choice you made. She was your cat, you knew her best, and you did what you could given the information you had. Second guessing can drive you crazy. She's at peace and she knew she was loved. Candace > <<So that's the end of the story...until the next Kitty (in a few > weeks..) [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Candace David, I am so sorry for your loss. I agree with Candace. It does no good to second guess what might have been, or to blame yourself. Just remember the good times you had with your Kitty. Lauren SignaturePawsForThought > > <<So that's the end of the story...until the next Kitty (in a few > > weeks..) [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > good to second guess what might have been, or to blame yourself. Just > remember the good times you had with your Kitty. I agree. We all do the best we can, and many of us have regrets when it is over. I wish I had made the choice you did sooner for my cat, because I let her go too long and now feel she suffered needlessly. It just is never an easy call. |
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