 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeDiscussion GroupsGeneral TopicsCat AnecdotesHealth and BehaviorRescue CatKB.com Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map |
Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / March 2005Shamrock and shrill noises
Shamrock is the cat who at age 3-1/2 years now has always had skin problems that are only eased with steroid shots (Depo). It's still not clear what his trigger is, but it's starting to seem even more idiopathic and emotional. However, the Depo does help, so there must be something physical; an allergic reaction. His lesions have decreased over the years, and he can go longer sometimes before needing another shot - though it still isn't seasonal. A month or so ago the thread about "Tattle Tale" came up and I thought it was a neat way to either alert me that one of the new kittens was on a counter, or deter. It didn't deter (they weren't fazed) but it at least let me know one or both was up on a counter and it seemed useful for when I was cooking something where I'm not standing in the kitchen the whole time. Problem - the shrill sound sets Shamrock off and he will tackle and bite the neck, and hold down any cat he sees, whether it is one on the counter, or not. Now, any sound like that he hears sets him off. It could be my pager (it goes off a lot these days, work related) or a shrill sound from the TV. His skin isn't bothering him right now, either. He had a Depo shot a few weeks ago and the fur is even growing back. Are all of these signs that something more is going on? More than just an allergic reaction to something? I'd guess food if an allergen and we had a little break from Depo's (about 3 months was the best time) on just Wellness but he won't eat it all the time any more. This boy is on the edge! He's making life miserable with his chasing Bonnie for no good reason and trapping her under my bed where she doesn't want to come out because he's standing guard, and now he's even going after the kittens who he has adored! I keep him separate during the day so that he doesn't terrorize everyone, and give him lots of attention when I'm home, and most nights I keep him in my room when I sleep, to both keep him from terrorizing Bonnie, and to give him more attention. I wrote a couple of years ago about whether he was a candidate for Prozac, but never pursued it with the vet because I didn't want to go that route. Now I really wonder....  SignatureCheryl > Shamrock is the cat who at age 3-1/2 years now has always had skin > problems that are only eased with steroid shots (Depo). It's still [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > it with the vet because I didn't want to go that route. Now I > really wonder.... Boy it might be worth a try. It seems like you have tried everything. I don't have any better ideas. Purrs for peace CHeryl. > Boy it might be worth a try. It seems like you have tried > everything. I don't have any better ideas. Purrs for peace > CHeryl. I don't know what else to do! He seemed to be good with the kittens, and I figured it would work out with Bonnie, given some separation. But with him going after the kittens now, I just don't know what to do. He just doesn't seem to be able to be happy[1] with anything. [1] not trying to anthropomorphize, only understand. SignatureCheryl >> Boy it might be worth a try. It seems like you have tried everything. I >> don't have any better ideas. Purrs for peace CHeryl. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > [1] not trying to anthropomorphize, only understand. You know, it seems like Shamrock has really changed personalities since I first started hearing about him, and that was only a few months ago! Probably just because of recent posts on the matter, I wonder if it's possible he could have a tumor or something pushing on his brain and making him behave poorly. It seems like his behavior was triggered by the addition of the kittens, though, so that would be a pretty massive coincidence. Maybe he just isn't comfortable sharing a living space with so many other cats? Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca > You know, it seems like Shamrock has really changed > personalities since I first started hearing about him, and that > was only a few months ago! He has always had aggression problems. He used to take it out on Shadow (RB) and I used to think it was because he could sense that Shadow was sick and weak. He used to also take out his aggression on me. He had me trapped to a spot because he'd attack my legs. I got a laser pointer and used to have to carry it around with me to divirt him when I wanted to walk across the room when he was "in a mood". He's gotten better about attacking me. I guess he's just found new victims. > Probably just because of recent posts on the matter, I wonder if > it's possible he could have a tumor or something pushing on his > brain and making him behave poorly. Good lord, I sure hope not. I did post this to see if there could be anything that made someone think it was more physical than just the allergies, though. > It seems like his behavior was triggered by the addition of the > kittens, though, so that would be a pretty massive coincidence. > > Maybe he just isn't comfortable sharing a living space with so > many other cats? That could be. But from the start, he's always seemed to be very cat friendly. He helped socialize Bonnie. She adored him, and was one of the sole reasons that she accepted me, I believe. He took the kittens "under his wing" and mothered them. He still adores Scarlett but he was attacking Rhett tonight and howling at him. He also attacks Scarlett out of the blue, and he did so tonight. He usually will settle down in grooming sessions with both kittens, and Rhett even pushes his face in Shamrock's face to get licked. Shamrock has been rejecting this grooming attempt lately, though. Rhett is clearly upset by this. He'll just keep pushing his face toward Shamrock, who turns his head. SignatureCheryl Steroids do make people and cats aggressive. I have to occasionally give them to Elmer, and I always hold my breath because he is a very aggressive cat. When I need to take steroids for poison ivy, I experience road rage. I scare myself. > Shamrock is the cat who at age 3-1/2 years now has always had skin > problems that are only eased with steroid shots (Depo). It's still [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > it with the vet because I didn't want to go that route. Now I > really wonder.... > Steroids do make people and cats aggressive. I have to > occasionally give them to Elmer, and I always hold my breath > because he is a very aggressive cat. > > When I need to take steroids for poison ivy, I experience road > rage. I scare myself. That wasn't something I was expecting... so the Depo shots for his skin problems could be the cause of his aggression? SignatureCheryl > > Steroids do make people and cats aggressive. I have to > > occasionally give them to Elmer, and I always hold my breath [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > That wasn't something I was expecting... so the Depo shots for his > skin problems could be the cause of his aggression? Could you check it in the PDR, in the reference section at the library? The PDR is extremely detailed, & gives all known side & adverse effects of each drug. Cathy Most definitely. It would be easy to do a web search on steroids and aggression. I know I've gotten myself into some fixes when on them! They are powerful drugs, miracle workers when we need them but not without serious side effects. Like I said, Elmer has eoinsyphilitic plaques. Someday I'll learn to spell and pronounce that word! He has always been aggressive as well. He's needed the occasional depo shot, but it is very traumatic around here when he gets one, so I avoid it as often as I can. He's on clomicalm on a regular basis, and that has actually helped with the skin problems. It is a tricyclic antidepressant, and he takes it for aggression and spraying. However, it relaxes him enough so that he doesn't do the anxious licking he did. Also, it was derived from an antihistamine, so there may be a link there. It's worth talking to the vet about. Elmer has also taken every other behavior modifying drug with little or no success--valium, prozac, elavil, and others I've forgotten! Clomicalm has saved the day (and probably his neck ;) >> Steroids do make people and cats aggressive. I have to >> occasionally give them to Elmer, and I always hold my breath [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > That wasn't something I was expecting... so the Depo shots for his > skin problems could be the cause of his aggression? > Most definitely. It would be easy to do a web search on > steroids and aggression. I know I've gotten myself into some [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > forgotten! Clomicalm has saved the day (and probably his neck > ;) Betsy, I'm archiving this to bring it to his vet to talk about. I've never talked to her about his aggression thinking that some cats are just this way. I used to think it was bad when he attacked me, but when I got around that with a laser pointer, it seemed that it wasn't really an issue. Now that he's attacking *everyone*, it is an issue. SignatureCheryl I'll be interested to hear what s/he says. It's an off-label prescription, meaning that it isn't "supposed" to be for this use. I'd heard about it on TV, then researched it on the web, and took it to my then vet. She was willing to try it, thank goodness. Since then I've switched vets twice. I would have followed this vet when she left the practice, but she moved too far from me (probably closer to you, in Catonsville!). The subsequent vets have had no problem with it, and have renewed his prescription. I now buy it from Canada, where it is MUCH cheaper than having it compounded. The dosage for cats is very small, and all the available pills for dogs are too high a dose, even when quartered. I get these microscopically tiny tablets and divide them in half. It's amazing what this little tiny pill will do! I'll be happy to correspond with you privately if you want to continue this discussion that way, or want any information not suited for Usenet. Do you have my address? >> Most definitely. It would be easy to do a web search on >> steroids and aggression. I know I've gotten myself into some [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > it wasn't really an issue. Now that he's attacking *everyone*, it > is an issue. > I'll be happy to correspond with you privately if you want to > continue this discussion that way, or want any information not > suited for Usenet. Do you have my address? That would be good. I used to have your addy, but it's gone. Can you reply to this one? Then I'll send my good addy. Thanks! I've been doing some reading on Clomicalm and found that Cornell was initiating a study for the off-label cat use for aggression, but haven't found anything stating that they concluded it. The date of the article was 2002. I printed it to bring to my vet. http://www.news.cornell.edu/Chronicle/02/2.28.02/anxious_cats.html SignatureCheryl > > Steroids do make people and cats aggressive. I have to > > occasionally give them to Elmer, and I always hold my breath [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > -- > Cheryl I have never heard this reported, nor seen it displayed by any cat I have worked with. Depo is a different class than androgens (which are the steriods that are associated with aggression). -L. > Shamrock is the cat who at age 3-1/2 years now has always had skin > problems that are only eased with steroid shots (Depo). It's still [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > it with the vet because I didn't want to go that route. Now I > really wonder.... You are neurotic and have passed it on to your cat. HTH. > Shamrock is the cat who at age 3-1/2 years now has always had skin > problems that are only eased with steroid shots (Depo). It's still [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > these signs that something more is going on? More than just an > allergic reaction to something? > Cheryl Hi Cheryl, It can be something as simple as a single flea bite that triggers of an allergic reaction in cats with eosinophilic complex and it can ages for a cat to get back to normal once it starts up. It sounds like Shamrock is an reactive cat and if he is feeling below par and stressy, the shrill sound of the Tattle tale would be enough to set him off. Maybe it sounded like an aggressive cat noise to him and connected it to the nearest cat and attacked him.. He's been conditioned to attacking at the sound of the noise and now has transferrred that to other noises. You could try teaching him another connection to the sound such as food. Arrange for your pager to go off (when the other cats aren't around) and immediately throw a treat close to him that he finds really yummy. (as you would when clicker training) You'll have to do this several times in a row until he connects the noise with the treat and looks to you for the treat, and you'll need to reinforce it by always treating when he hears the noise until he stops reacting aggressively to it. Alison > It can be something as simple as a single flea bite that > triggers [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > you'll need to reinforce it by always treating when he hears the > noise until he stops reacting aggressively to it. Hi Allison. I think behavior diversions and modifications have sadly been played out. I just don't see how I can keep trying to change a behavior that is replaced quickly with another one. For example, how he used to attack me and then switched to attacking Bonnie. This has been going on, and progressively getting worse since Shadow was sick. I had to separate him from Shadow, too, because Shadow was too ill to have to run from Shamrock. He just doesn't seem to be wired right. I wrote about how I asked these questions a year or so ago, but when all of the suggestions came up about drugs, I wasn't ready to go that route. Things aren't better even though he gets a lot of attention, and we regularly have the vet treat his skin problems to keep him from being miserably itchy. It's not fleas. Flea treatments were tried like clockwork for a year. It could be an environmental trigger, or even food. But we just can't narrow it down. I'm honestly not even sure there is a relationship between his itchy skin and aggression. He is worse now than he's ever been and his skin is clear. I don't discount trying to find the behavioral trigger. Not at all. But after all of this time, poor Bonnie is suffering because she's "not allowed" out of my bedroom because he has a serious problem with her. Thanks for the reply. I'm still not sure whether steroids could be causing aggression - many mixed answers to it. Though, there aren't any other solutions to his skin problems. :( SignatureCheryl >> I wrote about how I asked these questions a year or so ago, but > when all of the suggestions came up about drugs, I wasn't ready to [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > causing aggression - many mixed answers to it. Though, there aren't > any other solutions to his skin problems. :( Hi Cheryl, I remember you posting about it and I think I replied to you then. I feel sorry for Bonnie. I hope you find a solution. Kim suffers from FIC and eos granuloma and tends to be stressy and aggressive. I think it must in her genetic make up. Janet Boss has a cat Skipjack that was on steroids I think and is now on Amitryptiline, maybe she has some advice. The thing with the buzzer is reconditioning rather than a diversion. You do this without the other cats in the room. It might hopefully stop him reacting when he hears your pager or a shrill noise. He hears the pager, in a split second he feels anger and the need to attack but if you throw down a treat immediately and keep doing it , that feeling of anger will eventually be replaced by a feeling of pleasure or wellbeing. Alison > I remember you posting about it and I think I replied to you > then. I > feel sorry for Bonnie. I hope you find a solution. Kim suffers > from FIC and eos granuloma and tends to be stressy and > aggressive. I think it must in her genetic make up. I had asked the vet about his aggression and the itchiness and she thought it was likely there was a corrolation. I remember telling her that I'd be mean if I had skin problems like his. We never really pursued it. I should have. :( It breaks my heart about Bonnie, too. They used to be good buds before Shadow died. > Janet Boss has a cat Skipjack that was on steroids I think and > is now on Amitryptiline, maybe she has some advice. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > immediately and keep doing it , that feeling of anger will > eventually be replaced by a feeling of pleasure or wellbeing. For now I've put it on vibrate with a chirp but that doesn't help at night when it needs to wake me up. For today and yesterday its been ok. He barely notices the chirp. The problem with food association with him is that he doesn't like any of the cat treats. He likes chicken or tuna, and I try to keep some handy but it isn't as convienent as a crunchy treat. I'll try to work something out when he's a bit calmer. Thanks Alison. SignatureCheryl |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.