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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / March 2005Interesting Henry update: possible adoption
Meghan has set me up with someone who may be interested in adopting Henry! They'll be visiting tomorrow. I need to make sure Henry's been well-brushed... In anticipation of this, I took Henry to the vet today for a general once-over as well as a butt-shave. He seemed perfectly healthy, and the whole staff fell in love with him. It was bittersweet, given the circumstances, to have pretty much the entire staff come out and tell me personally how beautiful he was, and what a good kitty, too. Well, the butt-shaving ensued, and I waited in a treatment room. A vet-aide brought Henry back and said "the doctor will be here in a minute. We found worms." aaggh! I don't know anything about worms, but they sounded awful. All our cats have been indoors, and I envisioned some horrible, chronic condition which would not only cause Henry misery, but also turn off any prospective foster parents. Turns out, the vet was nonplussed. Two doses of (incredibly nasty-tasting) pills, and the worms will be gone. This, however, somewhat explains Henry's problems with butt-hygiene. Somehow they'd missed this in the first fecal float when we first adopted him. What's worse, apparently cats only get tapeworks from eating wildlife (rodents, birds), so he's had these worms at least since last summer! Good ol' Henry. It was sad to have him mew piteously in the carrier on the way to the vet. However, after the poking and shaving were over, he was perfectly happy to get back in, and rode back home contentedly. BLink Beat wishes for the best possible outcome. > Meghan has set me up with someone who may be interested in > adopting Henry! They'll be visiting tomorrow. I need to make > sure Henry's been well-brushed... Yay for you! Kudos to Megan! Yay Henry! Worms are common, and it sounds like with the right pills, it'll be resolved in a couple of weeks. Don't worry about it. :)  SignatureCheryl > Meghan has set me up with someone who may be interested in adopting > Henry! They'll be visiting tomorrow. I need to make sure Henry's been [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > BLink This sounds great, Brian. Megan is very selective in pairing people with cats, so you can be sure that anyone she recommends will be great kitty parents. It's fortunate that your vet found the worms so Henry can be treated, and I think it is exceptional that you made arrangements so that Henry would look his best tomorrow -- and, more important, that you will be able to honestly reassure the new parents that Henry is healthy. Good luck with the potential adoption. MaryL > Well, the butt-shaving ensued, and I waited in a treatment room. A > vet-aide brought Henry back and said "the doctor will be here in a > minute. We found worms." Don't worry. Worms are very common in cats that came from outdoors. They are cleared up easily. You may want to advise the new parents to have a stool sample checked in a few weeks to make sure they are all gone. Purrs that all goes well with the adoption. Signature-Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net "Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG (Tiger's helping me type.. rrr) I wasn't too happy with the visit. It was great to meet Meghan, but the gal visiting Henry was so obviously ambivalent. She'd just lost her cat in the last few weeks, so she definitely loved Henry, but still felt the sting. I was so nervous that I forgot to offer them coffee or soda. gah. Well, this can only end well. Henry would have had a tough time during the horrible January cold spell. At least I feel that I've helped keep a wonderful kitty alive when he may have met the horrible end of so many strays... Henry will make an amazing and loving companion to whoever ends up adopting him. BLink > (Tiger's helping me type.. rrr) > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > BLink Brian, Please don't surrender Henry to a shelter. I know you have grown very fond of Henry, but you never did follow through on the many suggestions that some of us made. Nevertheless, you have dedicated a great deal of time to this situation, so please don't give up now. It's possible that the people Megan talked about will decide to adopt. If not, please give her an opportunity to locate someone. She has resources for contacting potential adopters and very good instincts about making placements; she also will ask the type of "hard questions" that need to be asked to be sure that Henry would go to a good home. Above all, Henry does not deserve a fate such as what you are now considering (although I realize that you may be speaking about of frustration and hope you would not seriously consider abandoning Henry to a shelter). A much better solution can be found. MaryL > (Tiger's helping me type.. rrr) > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > BLink Brian, Please check your voice mail. I just talked to Megan, and things are looking up. She was on her way out and didn't have time to post a message to the newsgroup, but she left some short messages on your voice mail. She has been in contact with the woman she brought to your house to see Henry, and she would like to "at least" foster Henry -- and it could easily turn into an adoption. I think this could be a foreverhome for Henry. At least, that has always been my personal experience -- once I got a cat home, I fell in love and no one could possibly pry my new furbaby away from me! This could turn out to be the very best thing that could possibly happen for you, for Henry, and for your whole household. Don't worry about the seeming ambivalence. That is a very common reaction on a first meeting -- it takes a little time to think things through, and you really wouldn't want someone who would simply react on the spur of the moment without giving it careful consideration. You have given Henry a chance at life by keeping him with you for all this time, and I have great hope that this will now become a story with a truly happy ending. MaryL > > (Tiger's helping me type.. rrr) > > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > that has always been my personal experience -- once I got a cat home, I fell > in love and no one could possibly pry my new furbaby away from me! This is exactly what Brian did and why he doesn't want to let go of Henry. He felt this woman's ambivalence--that is what really seemed to bother him-- and I cannot imagine he will be happy sending Henry to her. Because he loves Henry. > This is exactly what Brian did and why he doesn't want to let go of Henry. > He felt this woman's ambivalence--that is what really seemed to bother > him-- > and I cannot imagine he will be happy sending Henry to her. Because he > loves > Henry. Why are you making this even harder? Have you ever done an adoption? Do you deal with people who are looking to adopt after losing a cat? It is very common for someone not to act over the moon about a cat on the first meeting. If it is NOT working out at Brian's home, and he's losing sleep over it, and there is another good home lined up, why shouldn't he do this? I don't get it. I wouldn't keep a cat that is making my other cats miserable. Sometimes it just doesn't work. Signature-Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net "Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG > > This is exactly what Brian did and why he doesn't want to let go of Henry. > > He felt this woman's ambivalence--that is what really seemed to bother [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > it. I wouldn't keep a cat that is making my other cats miserable. > Sometimes it just doesn't work. I understand that you feel this way. I also understand Brian's fear that nobody will love and care for Henry as he does. >> > This is exactly what Brian did and why he doesn't want to let go of >Henry. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >I understand that you feel this way. I also understand Brian's >fear that nobody will love and care for Henry as he does. Yup, I'm ambivalent. I want to keep Henry. I don't want to keep Henry. The way I see it is that this is like the person with a dying cat taking extraordinary measures for months, though the cat is miserable with no hope of recovery. At that point, whose welfare is being considered? Who benefits? Not that cat, imho... Same here. We could keep Henry around, and after living on the street spending half the day in a dark basement may be a step up. But for Louis and Tiger it's pretty unfair. Tiger's approaching his twilight years too, and I sure don't want to screw him up. And of course there's the "innappropriate urination" issue.. Nah - this is the best outcome atm. BLink > Yup, I'm ambivalent. I want to keep Henry. I don't want to keep Henry. > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > BLink I think you're absolutely right. Please don't let anyone sabotage what sounds like a good solution. Priscilla Signature"You can't welcome someone into a body of Christ and then say only certain rooms are open." -- dancertm in alt.religion.christian.episcopal > > Yup, I'm ambivalent. I want to keep Henry. I don't want to keep Henry. > > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > I think you're absolutely right. Please don't let anyone sabotage what > sounds like a good solution. That is not at all what I am trying to do. You can f.ck off too. Brian is going to be sorry for the rest of his life if he gives this cat up, I can tell. > >> > This is exactly what Brian did and why he doesn't want to let go of > >Henry. [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > BLink It is your decision, that is for sure. My motive in posting what I have is the obvious love you have for this cat, as evidenced in every post you have made beginning months ago. I don't mean to make it harder on you. I just don't want to see you living with the heartache of giving up a creature you love. My opinion that Megan is a Giant Horse's a.s has nothing to do with this. (Sure, she is useful in placing cats at times. Even Giant Horse's a.ses can be useful.) > It is your decision, that is for sure. My motive in posting what I have is > the obvious love you have for this cat, as evidenced in every post you have > made beginning months ago. I don't mean to make it harder on you. I just > don't want to see you living with the heartache of giving up a creature you > love. My opinion that Megan is a Giant Horse's a.s has nothing to do with > this. I do believe Mary on this one. She and I got into a nasty tiff a while back about my cat Eros, whom I adopted and later brought to a (carefully selected) shelter, and who eventually found a home. Mary can't imagine a situation in which she'd give up her pet, regardless of the turmoil caused to the household. Well, I couldn't imagine it, either, until it happened to me, or more specifically, it happened to my husband and Oscar, neither of whom could tolerate Eros for different reasons. So I do understand where Mary is coming from. ("From whence Mary comes?" Hrmmmm...) To the OP: our shelter provides pet loss counselling, and they said I could go to some sessions about Eros. I ended up not going, but if you find yourself having trouble coming to terms with your situation, maybe you could ask around and see if anyone in the area offers similar services. Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca Monique wrote: >I do believe Mary on this one. Heh. Even *after* Brian posted making it clear why it was in the best interests of Henry, she then continues by saying he's going to regret it for the rest of his life? That's just twisting the knife in further and is clearly an attempt to sabotage. If you really believe there is an honest motive behind what Mary is perpetrating, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn... Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > Monique wrote: >>I do believe Mary on this one. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Megan She did the same in my case, even though she had no history with me and you weren't involved. *shrug* I truly do believe Mary wants to find a way to let Brian keep Henry. The fact that she can tweak your nose while she's at it just sweetens the deal for her, but doesn't alter the original premise. Anyhoo, those were my two cents and I'm outta here. Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca > > Monique wrote: > >>I do believe Mary on this one. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Anyhoo, those were my two cents and I'm outta here. Your instincts are damned good, Mo. My main concern is definitely Henry and Brian. > Monique wrote: > >I do believe Mary on this one. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > honest motive behind what Mary is perpetrating, then I have a bridge in > Brooklyn... Brian posted that he is ambivalent, and I can see why. > Yup, I'm ambivalent. I want to keep Henry. I don't want to keep Henry. > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > BLink Have you ever placed a cat before? If not, I think you may be having "first-time surrender" anxiety. Don't worry - he will be fine and if this isn't the right home for him, he will find the right home. You can always give the stipulation that he be returned to you in the event that the placement doesn't work out. And once he is in his forever home, you can request pictures/updates. After awhile, you will start to like rehoming cats. It gives you a real sense of satisfaction to be helping the homeless one at a time - sort of like the poem about the little boy and the Starfish (below). IMO, it's not fair to your other cats to keep Henry. Your loyalty is to them, first and foremost. Keep us posted on what happens. -L. ***paste*** Once upon a time there was a man who used to go to the ocean to do his writing. He had a habit of walking on the beach before he began his work. One day he was walking along the shore. As he looked down the beach, he saw a human figure moving like a dancer. He smiled to himself to think of someone who would dance to the day. So he began to walk faster to catch up. As he got closer, he saw that it was a little boy and the little boy wasn't dancing, but instead he was reaching down to the shore, picking up something and very gently throwing it into the ocean. As he got closer he called out, "Good morning! What are you doing?" The little boy paused, looked up and replied, "Throwing starfish in the ocean." "I guess I should have asked, why are you throwing starfish in the ocean?" "The sun is up and the tide is going out. And if I don't throw them in they'll die." "But, young man, don't you realize that there are miles and miles of beach and starfish all along it. You can't possibly make a difference!" The little boy listened politely. Then bent down, picked up another starfish and threw it into the sea, past the breaking waves and said- "It made a difference for that one." KellyH Wrote: >Why are you making this even harder? >Have you ever done an adoption? Do you [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >another good home lined up, why >shouldn't he do this? I don't get it. This is one of the many perfect examples of the vast, unadulterated evil Mary perpetrates on a daily basis. Her response has nothing to do with any genuine concern for Brian, Henry or their welfare. Her only reason for doing this is because I'm involved and her vendetta against me outweighs everything, even if it means jeopardizing what will be a better situation until a wonderful and permanent home is found for Henry. Fortunately for Henry, Brian is too smart to fall for her garbage. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > KellyH Wrote: > >Why are you making this even harder? [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Henry. Fortunately for Henry, Brian is too smart to fall for her > garbage. I love this. "Vast unadulterated evil." Brian loves this cat and I hate to see him give him up. It is that simple. How you get from there to "Vast unadulterated evil" speaks volumes about you. You are sick, Megan. >This is one of the many perfect examples of the vast, unadulterated evil >Mary perpetrates on a daily basis. Evil? I don't think so. I may not agree with how she says things, but I have felt the same way about this situation. It sounds more logical to find Henry a new home, but logic wouldn't work for me in a situation like this. I actually convonced my mom to stop breeding cats because I was afraid I would be forced into a situation like this. Kira's mom went beserk on Maynard when he saw the kittens and panicked. If Kira had kittens, Maynard would react the same way (he has always freaked with kittens). If Kira got agressive with Maynard, what would I do? I just couldn't face this possibility, so I went all out to convince my mom that breeding was bad. I didn't care what reason worked, just to get her to let me out of the deal. I had agreed to let her breed Kira when she gave her to me. I agree that finding Henry a new home is the best plan, but I've been hoping he would come up with a plan that would let him keep Henry. It's a horrible situation to be in. I really doubt that Mary is trying to use Brian and Henry to hurt somebody over the internet. I think she really honestly feels bad for Brian and Henry and wants to come up with something that will allow Henry to stay and still have a peaceful household. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com Meghan wrote: >I think she really honestly feels bad for >Brian and Henry and wants to come up >with something that will allow Henry to >stay and still have a peaceful household. Yeah right. That's why she has spent all her time twisting the knife, even after he made it clear to her how he felt and eventually killfiled her when he saw what you are seemingly blind to. I also challenge you to post the alternatives she has offered. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > Meghan wrote: > >I think she really honestly feels bad for [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > her when he saw what you are seemingly blind to. I also challenge you to > post the alternatives she has offered. You just verify my opinion that you are a nut when you post things like this, Megan. Meghan is right. My heart just aches for Brian and Henry and I want Brian to be able to keep the cat he loves. I have never had cats that, when left alone, did not work things out on their own so I don't have any useful suggestions for Brian about how to stop his cats from fighting with Henry. But I think there must be a way. You will feel a lot better when you accept the fact that people are allowed to have differing opinions from yours and to post them. marys@catlover.com lied: >My heart just aches for Brian and Henry >and I want Brian to be able to keep the cat >he loves. You make it clear from this statement that this has nothig to do with Henry's welfare and has everything to do with someone getting what he wants, despite the fact that a lot of discord and unhappiness for many is the result. You don't give a damn about Henry and you've made it very apparent that my assessment of your motives is correct. According to you, Henry should spend half his life shut in a basement so Brian can have what he wants. This is beyond selfish and to advocate for this is just plain mean. Fortunately, Brian has the compassion and understanding to realize that this isn't "all about him" (which you should try to learn from) and that the welfare of Henry has to come *first,* even if that means making sacrifices. That's the mark of a man with a good heart, which is so completely contrary to that black hole that resides in your chest. >I have never had cats that, when left >alone, did not work things out on their >own so I don't have any useful >suggestions for Brian about how to stop >his cats from fighting with Henry. But I >think there must be a way. It's been 9 months with no progress and now one of his cats is spraying everywhere because of Henry's presence. How long do you suggest Henry stay locked away or Brian (and his wife who you seem to be forgetting has to live with this too) have to deal with fighting and spraying for? You think this is better for all involved than finding Henry a good home where he has free run of the house, no cats attacking him and attention that's not on a schedule? You have a seriously warped perception of what "welfare" means. >You will feel a lot better when you accept >the fact that people are allowed to have >differing opinions from yours and to post >them. I understand perfectly that there are differing opinions, and I also have the right to disagree with them which is something you seem to have a problem with in your "do as I say not as I do" world. I also do not, despite your claims, attempt to censor anything you say (and if you're going to accuse me of such PPOSTFU.) Why would I? You burn yourself with your own words on a regular basis and it's rather entertaning making you look like a fool over and over again. :-) Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > marys@catlover.com lied: > [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > Megan There now, doesn't that feel better? :) >apparent that my assessment of your motives is correct. According to >you, Henry should spend half his life shut in a basement so Brian can >have what he wants. If the process is done well, it will come to an end, and the cats will get along. I did this with my own cats, and Maynard was sequestered for 8 months. It worked. We never had any problems after that. >It's been 9 months with no progress and now one of his cats is spraying >everywhere because of Henry's presence. How long do you suggest Henry >stay locked away I suspect that the last 9 months have not been total sequestering, and that is part of the problem. Yes, we hope it doesn't have to be done this way. Henry should be sequestered 100% of the time. He needs to have a safe place that the other cats cannot get into. And the other cats need a place that Henry never goes. And it needs to stay that way til after everybody is settled down. Only then, should a neutral territory be established where Henry can be for short times without the other cats. The idea is for Henry to get used to being there and being safe. And the other cats have to get used to his presence without any agression. You have to break the cycles. And there are two cycles. The victim's cycle and the agressor's cycle. In my own case, Maynard ran because Tov chased. But Tov chased because Maynard ran. When I finally reintroduced them, I had to hold Maynard and later put him on a leash so that he could not run. Tov had to learn to see him and not chase. And Maynard had to learn to see her and not run. It is called conditioning, and we have to force the correct behavior. Once Maynard's cycle was broken (he could sit on a leash on the floor and not run at the sight of Tov), I reversed it.I put Tov on the leash and let Maynard loose. She could not chase. As I said it was a very slow and deliberate process, but it was our only option. Neither cat was new. Only the situation was new. I was not giving up my cat, and my mom was not giving up her cat. We found a way to make it work. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com Meghan wrote: > Henry should be sequestered 100% of >the time. He needs to have a safe place >that the other cats cannot get into. And >the other cats need a place that Henry >never goes. And it needs to stay that way >til after everybody is settled down. Brian rescued Henry around the end of June '04 and has been doing that for *months.* Are you advocating that Henry (and everyone else involved) go through this for another 3/4 of a year? For whatever reason Brian's cat Louis still has murder on his mind where Henry's concerned and now has started spraying. Again, you should try actually reading what's been going on before you post. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > Meghan wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > has started spraying. Again, you should try actually reading what's been > going on before you post. Brian has not kept Henry totally sequestered. At all. Liar. >Brian has not kept Henry totally sequestered. At all. Exactly. And that is stage one of this process. When you want to re-condition an animal (or person even), you have to start with a relaxed animal. They have to feel totally safe, and you start with them in a good state of mind. Then you slowly desensitize them to whatever the problem is. For example, when I got my freaked out dog, she was afraid of linoleum floors, doorways, and stairways. People insisted I should just put food in front of her, and she will cross the obstacles to get to the food. She would have died of starvation. Put her on the linoleum, and she would go rock stiff and just shake with terror. Her capacity to learn was completely shut off. You cannot teach an animal something with a fear response that strong. The solution was to carry her across the obstacles when needed for almost 3 months til I could feel her relaxed and calm while being carried. Until that point, I did not even begin desensitizing her. Food and water were served on the rug in the living room, and she was carried to and from my room, and to and from the outdoors. After she was calm, I would start by putting her on the linoleum one step from the rug, facing the rug. She could leap to the rug. It was a slow process, but we put did each distance until she could do it calmly before increasing the distance. I got her in April, and she mastered the outside door in July, the stairway in August, and the linoleum took til October for her to walk into the kitchen to eat. Her bowl was placed on a rug so she could see rug and put her front feet on it. It took several more months for her to be totally comfortable with the kitchen. And a couple years to expand that to other linoleum and hardwood floors like the vet, pet store, etc. In the case of Brian, Henry, and crew; it sounds very much like the case I had with Tov and Maynard. Tov attacked on sight, and it was horrible. It required *total* sequestering. If Brian is going to teach his cats to get along, he will need them in a calm state of mind to start with that.That means going to the beginning of the process and *totally* sequestering Henry. I realize that Henry has been sent to a new home now, so this discussion is moot for Brian's case, but the principle still exists and someday somebody else will be facing the same issue. In fact, somebody could find that two cats that previously got along will start this cycle, as Maynard and Tov did. It's easy to say tell somebody to get rid of the new cat, but what oif both cats are well established? Tov was 5 or 6 at the time, and Maynard was 9. Both cats arrived as kittens. Were we really supposed to just give one away? Who should we give away? Should I have to give up my cat and resent my mom? Or should she give up her cat and resent me? Which cat should lose their security and happy home? Honestly, 8 months of sequestering was nothing compared to the idea giving one of them away. I'm sure if Maynard could talk, he would tell you that he didn't mind at all. In fact, during the first two months, he was terrified if I even carried him half way up the stairs. I'm sure it was a relief that I protected him. And it sure didn't bother Tov. She had the run of the house (except the basement). after the initial 3 months, she would spend about an hour a day in her room, but that wasn't much. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > When you want to re-condition an animal (or person even), you have to > start with a relaxed animal. They have to feel totally safe, and you > start with them in a good state of mind. Then you slowly desensitize > them to whatever the problem is. <snip...> > In the case of Brian, Henry, and crew; it sounds very much like the > case I had with Tov and Maynard. Tov attacked on sight, and it was [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Equine and Pet Photography > http://www.zoocrewphoto.com I have been following Henry's story from the beginning (since last summer), and Henry has been sequestered for most of the time. That has been one of the problems. It has been difficult for Brian to deal with the cats in separate areas, and Brian also posted that Henry was starting to become depressed. On the few occasions when Brian did try to desensitize the cats by using a slow introduction (while his wife sat across the room with Louis on her lap) Louis would go into full attack mode - basically wanting to kill. Henry wasn't the problem - it was the resident cat that was the problem, and long separations made no difference whatsoever. In fact, Louis is now starting to display behavioral problems, including spraying. These cats were, indeed, totally sequestered for long periods of time in between trying the desensitization process. If anyone knows about slow introductions and how long they take, Megan does. She has years of experience introducing cats (including feral cats) and currently has 24 cats in her household. She always encourages people - in the strongest possible way - to keep their cats if there is any possibility of success. The fact that she would encourage Brian to send Henry to a new home means that she believes this situation had become impossible for both Henry and Brian (and for Brian's wife). MaryL >> When you want to re-condition an animal (or person even), you have to >> start with a relaxed animal. They have to feel totally safe, and you [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > >MaryL Actually, Megan said that getting the three of them together was not impossible. However, it would have required a level of discipline and supervision we just can't provide. I work about 11 hours a day. My wife moves our son around mostly, and is an active performer. When I'm done programming, I'm usually going to a rehearsal or performance myself. This also factored in to my decision, that it seemed this would be possible but only with herculean effort. Meanwhile the lake o' pee continues to accumulate in our front hallway.. A sad, newly-kittyless person now has a new roomie who is truly a special cat. Henry's led a charmed life - as a kitten he was kept by little girls in a warm cardboard box in their yard (because the parents wouldn't let him inside). When they were forced to stop caring for him, he made his way around our neighborhood, being fed and occasionally sheltered in turns by several folks. He then bumped into us, and we took him out of the cold, got him vaccinated and neutered. Now he's landed in a space where he will get primary attention, and the care of a loving owner and control-freak cat behavioralist. =) If you're into these sorts of things, it's almost as if we were all caretakers so that Henry could meet this new human. This is a real success story, and it makes me think even more that Henry is a special, special kitty. BLink > This is a real success story, and it makes me think even more that > Henry is a special, special kitty. I am happy this has worked out in a positive way. And it is neat to think that you said goodbye but that it wasnt a forever goodbye like when we have to put one of our beloved pets down to rest. Will you be able to keep in touch with Henry and his new owner? :) Pam > Actually, Megan said that getting the three of them together was not > impossible. However, it would have required a level of discipline and > supervision we just can't provide. > > I work about 11 hours a day. Well at least you are honest. >>Actually, Megan said that getting the three of them together was not >>impossible. However, it would have required a level of discipline and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Well at least you are honest. I think that is what makes Brian a good pet owner. Yes, he will be sad at losing Henry, but he could not have done the job to the extent it needed to be done. There is *no* question that he has spent the entire time he has had Henry trying to create a happy cat home for him. And, like he posted, the goodbye was different from all others since this time, the cat had not died. Henry has a new home where he can roam and stretch and be the king of the castle. Yay! I reallllly would like to see a picture of Sir Henry! :) Pam >>>Actually, Megan said that getting the three of them together was not >>>impossible. However, it would have required a level of discipline and [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >:) >Pam Here's the net-ad I created when I was trying to find a home for him. Has all of our cats' pics linked. http://www.discant.com/Cat/freecat.htm BLink >>>>Actually, Megan said that getting the three of them together was not >>>>impossible. However, it would have required a level of discipline and [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > BLink Now I remember seeing him. What a fluffball! :) > >>>>Actually, Megan said that getting the three of them together was not > >>>>impossible. However, it would have required a level of discipline and [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Now I remember seeing him. What a fluffball! :) He's a beautiful boy. >> >>>>Actually, Megan said that getting the three of them together was not >> >>>>impossible. However, it would have required a level of discipline and [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > >He's a beautiful boy. Thank you! A reasonable response! There's hope for you at last! BLink > >> >>>>Actually, Megan said that getting the three of them together was not > >> >>>>impossible. However, it would have required a level of discipline and [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > BLink You're beginning to sound hysterical. >>>> Actually, Megan said that getting the three of them together was not >>>> impossible. However, it would have required a level of discipline and [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > BLink Though Grant was completely black, there is something about Henry that *strongly* reminds me of Grant. He lays like him, his facial expression is like Grant. If he is anything like Grant, I can understand why you feel he is such a special cat. > >>Actually, Megan said that getting the three of them together was not > >>impossible. However, it would have required a level of discipline and [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > this time, the cat had not died. Henry has a new home where he can roam > and stretch and be the king of the castle. Yay! I hope for the best. In any case, I have no doubt we have heard the last of Henry. >> >>Actually, Megan said that getting the three of them together was not >> >>impossible. However, it would have required a level of discipline and [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >I hope for the best. In any case, I have no doubt we have heard the last >of Henry. I truly hope you're sincere in your hope. Your obvious antipathy to Megan leads me to believe you may be less interested in Henry's welfare than some sort of rebuff of Megan. Eh. Frankly, as usenet Kooks go, you're pretty tame. At least you have a vendetta against a single person instead of the entire planet and the laws of nature. Still waiting to hear some useful info from you. Remember - if you provide useful tips you win. If you contradict Megan and you're proven right, you win. So far, you lose. Sorry. Keep trying. I always root for the underdog. BLink > >> >>Actually, Megan said that getting the three of them together was not > >> >>impossible. However, it would have required a level of discipline and [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > BLink You and Megan have at least one thing in common: inflated senses of self worth. You also overrate your importance to others. But whatever floats your boat, little guy. I am thinking about Henry. >>>Actually, Megan said that getting the three of them together was not >>>impossible. However, it would have required a level of discipline and [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > be done. There is *no* question that he has spent the entire time he has had > Henry trying to create a happy cat home for him. I agree. It's irrelevant that an expert cat owner with oodles of time and patience might have been able to make this situation work, given a year or so of 24/7 dedication. Brian honestly evaluated his situation and recognized that he didn't have the ability to make this work. Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca >I have been following Henry's story from the beginning (since last summer), >and Henry has been sequestered for most of the time. I understood that Henry was in the basement for half the day, and then the other cats were put away for awhile to let him up. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > I realize that Henry has been sent to a new home now, so this > discussion is moot for Brian's case, but the principle still exists > and someday somebody else will be facing the same issue. Yes, Brian has made his choice. I hope Henry is loved and cared for. I just think it is so sad. >Meghan wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >has started spraying. Again, you should try actually reading what's been >going on before you post. No, Brian, has not been doing this. He has been doing something similar, but he basically started in the middle in the program. Letting them both take turns at neutrak territory. This is why his cats are so upset. They need to be completely separated so thatnobody enters the same space for at least a couple months. They have to all be relaxed and calm on a regular basis before letting them cross each other's path, even if at different times of day. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > >apparent that my assessment of your motives is correct. According to > >you, Henry should spend half his life shut in a basement so Brian can [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > get along. I did this with my own cats, and Maynard was sequestered > for 8 months. It worked. We never had any problems after that. That's what I was thinking too. And Henry pees in the house, from what Brian has said. How long does a cat like that last in the home of someone who does not love him? That is what really worries me. > >It's been 9 months with no progress and now one of his cats is spraying > >everywhere because of Henry's presence. How long do you suggest Henry [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > not giving up my cat, and my mom was not giving up her cat. We found a > way to make it work. Brian didn't, and Megan gave him an out. That is fine, but I still doubt it was the best thing for Henry. All Brian talks about is how tired he is. Poor Henry. >That's what I was thinking too. And Henry pees in the house, from >what Brian has said. How long does a cat like that last in the home of >someone who does not love him? That is what really worries me. Many years ago, we got a young male that set everybody off. He sprayed, even after being neutered. We tried valium, female hormones, and something else. Nothing worked. We tried to find him a new home, but honestly, who wants a cat that sprays? Only a well experienced person would take a spraying cat. And this cat also needed to be an only cat. Nobody who is that experienced and into cats is going to want just one. We never got a single call. We couldn't put down a healthy cat, and giving him to a shelter would have resulted in the same thing. So, we kept him and let him outside during the day. It reduced the indoor spraying and gave the other cats peace during the day. It was the best we could do for everybody involved. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com >> Meghan wrote: >> >I think she really honestly feels bad for [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >people are allowed to have differing opinions from yours >and to post them. Well, we cried tonight over Henry, when he went down to the basement as is his regular regimen, knowing this was the last time we'd perform this little ritual. Our options in this situation are seriously limited. We could either spend 14 hours a day for months trying to integrate these animals, or give Henry to a shelter. We don't have 14 hours a day. Henry is a great cat who will provide years of pleasure to a compassionate owner. Good god I'm sad to lose him, but when he went to the basement tonight, we were surrounded by our other cats, who we've made a commitment to, and suddenly it all made sense. Henry has to leave so we can honor our earlier commitment to the wonderful people named Louis "Scratchmo" Armstrong and Tiger "Bunyan-Bane". Henry would've died in the cold without our intercession, and in fact now has a chance at a long, happy life. That's a pretty damn good arrangement, AFAIK. It's like sending a kid off to college - you weep at the impending vacuum, but celebrate their newfound independence. Mary, I had you killfiled but I had to see what all these replies were about. I can't see you interested in Henry's or my welfare, so I guess you get to rejoin *PLONK* land after this. On the other hand, it's entertaining to jab you back.. so perhaps I'll just relegate you to "My Favorite Troll" on this newsgroup... gah. Sleep. I remember what that was like... BLink > >> Meghan wrote: > >> >I think she really honestly feels bad for [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > gah. Sleep. I remember what that was like... Everyone is entitled to his opinion, Brian. And you know better than to call anyone you disagree with a troll. The fact is, you don't disagree with me. You are not sure what will happen to Henry or if anyone will ever love him the way you do. I just think that is sad for Henry, and for you. I'm not criticizing your decision. I just think it is sad. >Meghan wrote: >>I think she really honestly feels bad for [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >her when he saw what you are seemingly blind to. I also challenge you to >post the alternatives she has offered. Why does everything have to be a personal fight? It seems like there are several people who think every post by their bitter enemy is an attack on them, even when the topic has nothing to do with them. And if somebody else, like me, responds to either side, we are immediately lumped in with that attack. It's like a pissing match between two rival gangs, and the whole group is the loser. As for Brian and Henry, I think it is something that will take a long time, if he can stick it out. When my mom's cat was voliently attacking my own cat, it got really bad. My cat was hiding behind the toilet when upstairs and hiding even in my room. It took 8 months to turn it around. We had to start by separating them completely. My cat was locked in my bedroom. My other cats and my dog were allowed in and out with door service, but the door had to be shut 24/7. No way my cat was allowed out, and no way her cat was allowed in. It took over 2 months before we could even start the next stage. It was a long process, and it wasn't easy. But we got it to the point where the cats could be left alone in the same room, and they could ignore each other. It *is* possible. Brian is on the right track, having them separated. Yes, it seems like punishment to keep them sequestered in smaller areas of the house. But that is what it takes to get everybody established with safe areas. You have to get everybody calmed down and safe for a good period of time before you can even begin entering them into neutral territory (not at the same time of course) and get them used to each other's presence in those locations. Actual face to face meetings come later. In a situation like this, the process is very slow and deliberate. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com Meghan wrote: >Why does everything have to be a >personal fight? It seems like there are [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >to either side, we are immediately lumped >in with that attack. You should be addressing this to Mary. As to the rst of your post, Brian has made it clear why he made the choices he has. It would be helpful if you actually read and comprehended the details of what has been going on. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > Meghan wrote: > >Why does everything have to be a [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > It would be helpful if you actually read and comprehended the details of > what has been going on. She has. As usual you are full of sh.t. Determined to be "the expert" to the point that even when your advice harms the cat people are not supposed to speak up. Bullshit. >> Meghan wrote: >> >Why does everything have to be a [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >advice harms the cat people are not supposed to >speak up. Bullshit. Civil debate with facts. Look into it. BLink >>> Meghan wrote: >>> >Why does everything have to be a [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >BLink This is fun! I've un-killfiled you, cause you're so obviously batshit-crazy I look forward to taunting you in the future. BLink > >>> Meghan wrote: > >>> >Why does everything have to be a [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > BLink Whatever floats your boat, Brian. >> >>> Meghan wrote: >> >>> >Why does everything have to be a [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > >Whatever floats your boat, Brian. YOU float my boat! You've become my A-Number-One kook to pursue! (and believe me, there are plenty of kooks to go around) While other kooks maintain some legitimacy by occasionally being correct, you have an unadulterated proclivity for providing absolutely zero useful information. This is great! You are the Kooks' Kook! No useful information, no supporters, obvious personal vendetta.. it's like a Usenet birthday present! I expect great entertainment from you in the future. Hope you don't kill yourself first. BLink > >> >>> Meghan wrote: > >> >>> >Why does everything have to be a [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > BLink What a strange overreaction to my straightforward concern about Henry being given up yet again. I hope you get something out of it. > >> Meghan wrote: > >> >Why does everything have to be a [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Civil debate with facts. Look into it. Non sequitur. Look it up. >Meghan wrote: >>Why does everything have to be a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >You should be addressing this to Mary. There are 5 of you that continuously fight. You may not realize it, but you come off just as bad as Mary. I actually agree with her more, just can't stand the swearing. >As to the rst of your post, Brian has made it clear why he made the >choices he has. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >- W.H. Murray Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > >Meghan wrote: > >>I think she really honestly feels bad for [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Why does everything have to be a personal fight? I have no clue. I don't take any of it personally. I'm just voicing my opinions in a public forum about the topic of said forum. Period. I think Megan is hilarious. Brian, you would not know I was a major "cat lover" in certain situations. Especially now, in grief over Grant, when I see a strange cat, I kind of distance myself. Some of the pain from losing Grant is part of it. I know too, if/when I would go to get another boy, I would feel some guilt as though I were trying to replace Grant. It isn't rational, but it's just part of the grief thing. I would wager that this woman had all kinds of things going on with her. I"m sure that, combined with how painful this is for you, made it a fairly ambivalent situation! Hang in there. > (Tiger's helping me type.. rrr) > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > BLink |
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