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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / February 2005

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Mild medication to reduce stress/spraying?

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Kelly - 26 Feb 2005 22:35 GMT
Hi all,

So I was the one that posted about my recently neutered 1 and a half year
old male that  would not stop howling and meowing.  So he is now boarding at
my work (vet clinic).

Today we let him out to walk around the clinic ... first of all, whenever he
found himself alone, he would start to howl all over again (not surprising,
but in all my cat years I have never seen this before).   And then here's
the big thing.... he walked by a bag of food, turned around, and SPRAYED.
Oh man this really worries me.

First of all, it's only been one week since he's been neutered, so is there
still a chance that it's just his hormones making him do this?

There are two more weeks before we move him into the new house.  I've
already decided I'm getting the Feliway diffuser.  We are starting him off
in the basement (it's a nice basement, not dungeon), and then will slowly
introduce him to the rest of the house.  I want to make this as easy on him
as possible, and I don't want to take a chance that he is going to begin
spraying immediately due to stress.  Is there a mild anti-anxiety drug that
we could  temporarily use in addition to the Feliway to help calm this poor
little guy (just until he gets used to the house)?  I know that he is going
to begin his howling as soon as we move him into the new house... and I
don't want him to get so stressed that he begins spraying.  Now I haven't
asked my vet about this yet.... I wanted to get some opinions from different
cat lovers because I know I'm not the only one with a spraying/anxious cat.
Would Clomicalm be a bad idea?

After he is comfortable with the house and we have no "incidents"... we will
introduce my other cat (no problems with this one).

Thanks for any thoughts.  This guy has me real worried.

Kelly

Alison - 27 Feb 2005 00:53 GMT
 Hi Kelly,
    I would try asking this question on the Think like a Cat forum
http://messageboards.ivillage.com/iv-ptthinkcat
and get an answer from Pam Johnson- Bennet.  Other people's opinions
and  experiences are helpful but when it comes to making a decision
about  anti-anxiety drugs, I think you need more than that.
Alison

> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>
> Kelly
Kelly - 27 Feb 2005 03:30 GMT
>  Hi Kelly,
>     I would try asking this question on the Think like a Cat forum
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> about  anti-anxiety drugs, I think you need more than that.
> Alison

Hi Alison,

I certainly plan on discussing this with the vet I work with, and my own
personal vet before I go ahead with anything.  I was just wondering if
anyone had any success stories with any of the meds that can be used with
environmental/behaviour modification.

Kelly
YourConscience - 27 Feb 2005 06:29 GMT
Your  kat is DYIN on you on accHOWENT of you abuse him.

Death Producing Ulcers: "Emotional Influences
On Health & Behavior" Dr. George Von Hilsheimer

Emotional Influences On Behavior

Illness is directly related to depression and lack of
adjustment, particularly to a new environment (Parens,
McConville & Kaplan, 1966).

A WIDE RANGE of PSYCHOSOMATIC or
CORTICOVISCERAL DIS-EASES was surveyed
by Wittkower (1965) to demonstrate the enormous
importance of emotional factors in general health.

Interview findings of emotional material (recently
experienced hopelessness) pryor to biological
examinations correctly identified 11 out of 19 with
cervical cancer, and 25 of 32 who were cancer free
even though psychological tests failed to discriminate
these groups (Schmale & Iker, 1966)

150 lung cancer patients showed significantly
constricted expression of emotions. The had fewer
childhood behavior problems, and lower neuroticism
score than their cancer free controls. Heavy cigarette
smokers who DO NOT INHALE are more apt to have LUNG
CANCER. They, too, show LOWER neuroticism scores.
Among heavy cigarette smokers poor emotional
expression is as highly related to cancer as urban
residence and is more important than a chronic cough
or an air polluted environment (Kissen, 1966).

A ten year observation of all the women who developed
cancer in an isolated pupulation of 2,550 showed that
they tended to be unstable or sub stable personalities
characterized by melancholy and extraversion,
especially marked with those of an undecided body
build (Hagll, 1966). Personality dynamics effect both
the development of cancer and it's SITE. Cancer
may result from what appears to be a failure to grow--
somatically, behaviorally and psychologically
(Grinker, 1966).

In 109 cases leukemia and lymphoma were associated
with a number of losses or separations and with
feelings of sadness, anxiety, anger or hopelessness.
The PRIMARY FACTOR seems to be the shame and
hopelessness of running out of psychological resources
(Green, 1966). Cervical cancer patients are less
emotionally responsive, more isolative, and less
frequently diagnosed as having clinical neuroses than
cancer free patients. There is NO CLEAR DIFFERENCE in
their FEELINGS and ATTITUDES toward coitus (Rotkin,
Qunk, & Couchman, 1965).

Schmidt (1966) surveyed nearly 100 studies of
behaviorally induced DIS-EASE in animals CONFIRMING
and EXTENDING the DATA on PEOPLE. Behaviorally
induced DIS-EASES tend to fall into two groups;
(1) Hysteriform problems, which INCLUDE HYSTERICAL
SEIZURES and FORMS of AGGRESSION as well as
collective panic and epilepsies;

(2) organic modifications, including functional
difficulties and lesions affecting gastro intestinal,
cardio vascular, respiratory, sexual, endocrine, skin,
urinary, and neuro muscular systems.

It is INTERESTING, and SLIGHTLY HORRIFYING,
to note that the ONLY SCIENTIFIC RELEVANCE of
the standard six hour school day that I have been
able to detect in research is that Sawrey and Weisz
quite by accident found that six hours on and six
hour off of "EXECUTIVE  BEHAVIOR" in monkeys was
the ONLY TIME STRUCTURE that INDUCED DEATH PRODUCING
ULCERS.

----- Original Message -----
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D."

<drv...@mindspring.com>
To: <pdd-aspy...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 9:31 AM
Subject: How does diagnosis shape treatment?

How does diagnosis shape treatment?

Nearly every week I have a visit from Jerry Howe, who
publicizes himself as The Puppy Wizard.  Jerry is a
master at behavioral modification of dogs.

His fundamental bedrock is the work Pavlov's last student, the late Sam

Corson, Ph.D., did at the U
of Ohio (at Oxford,O).

Sam always pointed out if the dog stopped working for
you in the lab, Pavlov and he always took the dog away
from the lab, and put him in a loving home and gave him
TLC for a couple of months, and then started, very
carefully, over again.

Jerry believes that reward and constraint focused training is immoral.
I've watched him in one short
session calm impossible dogs, just about to be murdered
(oops "put to sleep") because of their "incorrigibly"
violent behavior.

Sam was one of the first people to apply amphetamine to
hyperactivity (he searched the Middle West for yperactive
dogs); but he never lost sight of the fundamental reality
that a dog is not a human, but does respond, doggily, to
dog love.

You might be surprised to go to B. F. Skinner's
"Cumulative Record" and read the essay by Breland
and Breland, "The Misbehavior of Organisms".

Animals cannot be successfully trained unless the
trainer attends to the evolutionary history, the individual's
developmental history, and the environmental
niche of the animal being trained.

Yep, right there in Skinner's last and summary book.
Even with behavior mod, you must know the animal.

Dogs or little boys, you have to know the individual history, and the
nature of he disorder.

Dr. Von

PS if you are interested in dogs, then take a
look at Jerry's work, ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net

        From: TooCool (larrym...@hotmail.com)

    The Puppy Wizard's Wits End Training Method

I have studied canine behavior and dog training for
years. I have a huge library that covers every system
of training.

The Puppy Wizard's (Jerry Howe's) Wits' End Training
Method is by far the most scientific, the most advanced,
the kindest, the quickest and the most effective training
method yet discovered.

It is not an assortment of training tips and tricks; it is a logically
consistent system. Every behavior problem
and every obedience skill is treated in the same logically consistent
manner.

Please study his manual carefully. Please endeavor to
understand the basis of his system and please follow
his directions exactly. His manual is a masterpiece.
It is dense with theory, with explanation, with detailed
descriptions about why behavior problems occur and
how their solution should be approached.

One should not pick and choose from among his methods
based upon what you personally like or dislike. His is not a bag of
tricks but a complete and integrated system for not only training a dog

but for raising a loving
companion.

When I once said to Jerry that his system creates for
you the dog of your dreams, his response was that it
produces for your dog the owner of his dreams.

You see, Jerry has discovered that if you are gentle
with your dog then he will be gentle with you, if you
praise your dog every time he looks at you, then you
will become the center of your dogs world, if you use
Jerry's sound distraction with praise, then it takes
just minutes-sometimes merely seconds-to train your
dog to not misbehave (even in your absence) (Just 15
seconds this morning to train my 10 week old puppy to
lie quietly and let me clip his nails).

Using Jerry's scientific method (sound distraction /
praise / alteration / variation) it takes just minutes to
train you dog to respond to your commands.

What a pleasure it was for me to see my 6 week old
puppy running as fast has his wobbly little legs would
carry him in response to my recall command-and he
comes running every time I call no matter where we are
or what he is doing.

At ten weeks old now, my puppy never strains upon
his leash thanks to Jerry's hot & cold exercises and
his Family Pack Leadership exercises.

Jerry has discovered that if you scold your dog, if you
scream at him, if you intimidate him, if you hurt him,
if you force him then his natural response is to oppose
you.

Is Jerry a nut?

It doesn't make any difference to me whether he is or not. It is a
logical fallacy to judge a person's ideas
based upon their personality. As far as dogs are concerned, Jerry wears

his heart upon his sleeve. It
touches him deeply when he hears of trainers forcing,
intimidating, scolding or hurting dogs.

More than that, he knows  that force is not effective
and that it will certainly  lead to behavior problems;
sometime problems so severe  that people put their
dogs down because of those problems.

I believe that it is natural for humans to want to control their dog by

force. Jerry knows this too.
We have all been at our wits' end, haven't we?

Dogs have a natural tendency to mimic. In scientific
literature it is referred to allelomimetic behavior. Dogs
respond in like kind to force; they respond in like kind
to praise.

Don't bribe your dog with treats; give him what he
wants most-your kind attention. Give him your praise.
You will be astonished at how your dog 's anxiety will
dissipate and how their behavior problems will dissipate
along with their anxiety.

Treat Jerry Howe's (The Puppy Wizard) Wits' End
Training Method as a scientific principle just as you
would the law of gravity and you will have astounding
success.

Dog behavior is just as scientific as is gravity.

If you follow Jerry's puppy rules you will get a sweet
little Magwai; if you don't you will surely get a little
gremlin (anyone see The Gremlins?). --Larry

----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry M Male" <larrymm...@yahoo.com
To: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2004 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: Cocker with ear infection

Thanks Jerry,

I enjoyed the scientific discussion debunking
operant conditioning for teaching thinking animals.
Humans think by forming concepts. All of their
knowledge is held as a hierarchy of concepts
(more complex concepts defined in terms of
simpler ones). In my mind, to treat such a being
as a B. F. Skinner robot is criminal.

I don't believe that dogs hold their knowledge
as concepts as do humans but their ability to
think is unquestionable.

Operantconditioning doesn't utilize an animal's
ability to think. When you show a dog what you
want them to do, then they are able to grasp the
problem; they are able to think about it and to
integrate possible solutions into their mind.

But with operant conditioning a trainer is actually
hiding the problem to be solved from the animal.

For example, it is good for your dog's attention to
be upon you. When heeling, he will notice your
movements, your subtle hand signals, your facial
expressions and he will immediately sense your
next command. But the clicker trainers have forgotten
the reasons why a dog's attention should be upon you.

So they condition a dog to unnaturally cock his head
to stare upward at you. The dog doesn't appreciate
the meaning of this and neither does the trainer. Since
this unnatural behavior is prized in the obedience ring,
the clicker trainers are motivated to condition it.

Don't you think that the "high five" hand shake that
clicker trainers use to motivate novices looks like a
Nazi salute (an unthinking reflex). It is not at all like
a warm hand shake from a loving companion, is it?

Some of your testimonials bring tears to my eyes. I
love to see how some "thinking" people appreciate
your methods.

--Larry
Alison - 27 Feb 2005 13:21 GMT
> > Hi Alison,
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Kelly

Hi Kelly,
   That's good, I know you said you were going to discuss it with
your vet; I guess I don't always trust vets when it comes to
behavioural problems but obviously I dont know your vet and you do and
trust him so that's the main thing.:)
Alison
-L. - 27 Feb 2005 01:25 GMT
> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> First of all, it's only been one week since he's been neutered, so is there
> still a chance that it's just his hormones making him do this?

The howling or the spraying?  Howling - no likely, spraying, yes.

Are you sure he isn't hearing or visually impaired?  Howling when alone
can be a sign of deafness or blindness.

Elavil may be the drug you want to try, if all else fails.

Good luck,
-L.
Kelly - 27 Feb 2005 03:36 GMT
> The howling or the spraying?  Howling - no likely, spraying, yes.
>
> Are you sure he isn't hearing or visually impaired?  Howling when alone
> can be a sign of deafness or blindness.
>
> Elavil may be the drug you want to try, if all else fails.

Yes, I'm positive he is not impaired visually nor hearing-wise.  He *is*
mostly white... but his eyes are green and loud noises startle him.  Plus
when I call him he comes running.  Then he will follow me around the clinic,
so he must be able to see.  He also looks directly in your eyes all the
time.

I just want to reduce his anxiety in the new house as much as possible, and
I'm afraid the Feliway may not do it on it's own because it appears he has a
lot of separation anxiety, as well as a lot of territorial stress.
Hopefully the next couple weeks will do it for his spraying and I won't have
to resort to medications.

Kelly
Karen - 27 Feb 2005 04:11 GMT
>> The howling or the spraying?  Howling - no likely, spraying, yes.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Kelly

I sure don't think you can figure in the spraying bit until it's further
away from his surgery. Does he have something at the boarding facility now
which smells of your home and cats, to pre-familiarize him with the scents?
Might be good too. I guess I wouldn't rule out Feliway until you've actually
tried it. I wonder if he can have a radio or something too. Always helped
our animals to have a radio on when no one was around.
Mary - 27 Feb 2005 05:03 GMT
> >> The howling or the spraying?  Howling - no likely, spraying, yes.
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> tried it. I wonder if he can have a radio or something too. Always helped
> our animals to have a radio on when no one was around.
Kelly - 27 Feb 2005 15:30 GMT
> I sure don't think you can figure in the spraying bit until it's further
> away from his surgery. Does he have something at the boarding facility now
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> tried it. I wonder if he can have a radio or something too. Always helped
> our animals to have a radio on when no one was around.

Hi Karen,

Giving him something that smells like Harley, our other cat is a great idea.
Unfortunately, we don't get possession of the new house for another two
weeks, so I can't really give him anything that will smell like the house he
will be moving into.  We will be sanitizing (cleaning from top to bottom)
the new house anyway, so maybe I could give him some Mr. Clean products
because that will probably be what the house smells like when he moves in
(JOKING!!!).

Yes I will definitely be putting a small radio in the basement to help keep
him company until the can have access to the rest of the house.

Thanks for the suggestions,
Kelly
Karen - 27 Feb 2005 21:24 GMT
>> I sure don't think you can figure in the spraying bit until it's further
>> away from his surgery. Does he have something at the boarding facility now
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> Thanks for the suggestions,
> Kelly

This may be wierd, but you might actually bring little harley poops to put
in the box.

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