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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / March 2005baby wipes?
Any reason you guys think I couldnt use baby wipes on Jaspers tushie? He is kind of messy right now. I got plain, unscented. :) Pam > Any reason you guys think I couldnt use baby wipes on Jaspers tushie? He > is kind of messy right now. I got plain, unscented. Take a look at the ingredients list. Some baby wipes contain propylene glycol which is toxic to cats - especially since he'll probably clean himself. Phil >>Any reason you guys think I couldnt use baby wipes on Jaspers tushie? He >>is kind of messy right now. I got plain, unscented. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Phil There are some wipes made for pets. I happened to see some just yesterday, but I didn't examine them. I hope, given what you say, they don't contain propylene glycol!  SignatureJean B. > >>Any reason you guys think I couldnt use baby wipes on Jaspers tushie? He > >>is kind of messy right now. I got plain, unscented. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > yesterday, but I didn't examine them. I hope, given what you say, > they don't contain propylene glycol! They have these at Walmart and Petsmart. >> Any reason you guys think I couldnt use baby wipes on Jaspers tushie? He >> is kind of messy right now. I got plain, unscented. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Phil Woah. I've been using some on Jackie. I'd best check the ingredient list. Probably more dangerous for Nipsy since he likes checking out Jackie's butt more than Jackie does. I have to disagree with you Phil. Propylene Glycol is used to dilute ivermec and that is given to cats, and recommended by Revival so I doubt if it's toxic Beverley > I have to disagree with you Phil. Propylene Glycol is used to dilute > ivermec and that is given to cats, and recommended by Revival so I > doubt if it's toxic > > Beverley The FDA banned the use of propylene glycol in cat food in 1992 because it causes Heinz bodies (clumps of oxidized, denatured hemoglobin) in feline blood and decreases the life of erythrocytes (RBCs). PG also accumulates in the CNS causing a narcotic effect. Prolonged accumulation can result in hemolytic anemia. Phil (...) > The FDA banned the use of propylene glycol in cat food in 1992 > because it causes Heinz bodies (clumps of oxidized, denatured > hemoglobin) in feline blood and decreases the life of erythrocytes > (RBCs). This is true, but only if fed in relatively large doses, such as 6% of the diet over a period of weeks (Bauer et al., 1992; Christopher et al., 1989). In such cases, the lifespan of red blood cells (RBCs) is reduced by 18-c.40%. Hickman et al. (1990) found that 20% of RBCs showed Heinz bodies in kittens fed a diet consisting of 5% PG, although the kittens did not develop anaemia. These amounts of PG were found in semi-moist foods back in the 80s-90s, and so such foods could lead to problems. Although using wipes containing PG is not a good idea, in reality it's unlikely to cause problems because the volume of PG in a wipe is so small - even if the cat gave its arse a good licking, it will only reach fractions of a percent of the diet as PG, unless you are wiping said arse every few minutes. However, given that there are alternatives to baby wipes, there is no reason to use wipes with PG in any case. If PG is used to dilute ivermec, then I would guess that the volume of PG used would be very small. Incidentally, although PG used in human foods, it is toxic to humans in large doses. (Mind you, I once swallowed a mouthful of the stuff and I'm still standing. Mostly.) Steve. > (...) > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > This is true, but only if fed in relatively large doses, such as 6% of > the diet over a period of weeks (Bauer et al., 1992; Thanks for the recital - I was expecting it from it you... again. I think I'll just stick to erring on the side of caution and avoid using potentially toxic substances in and on my cats as much as possible. > I think I'll just stick to erring on the side of caution and avoid using > potentially toxic substances in and on my cats as much as possible. This is probably good practice...but it is probably nice to mention that the level needed to reach toxicity would probably not come from one accidental use of a wipe. I guess I should have been smart enough to figure that on my own, but I did drop everything and RACE home after I thought I killed my cat with a baby wipe. Of course, I can laugh at the hilarity now...but man, was I in a frenzy. As if racing home would make a cat any less dead, if it were, in fact, dead. ;) But anyway, you get my drift? Pam kitkat <kitkatluna@aol.commie> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: >> I think I'll just stick to erring on the side of caution and >> avoid using potentially toxic substances in and on my cats as [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Pam That's why I often don't find this group too useful. Everything is black and white. It's either the only thing that it good for the cat or it's going to kill the cat. This is a dog story, but sort of applies. There are staunch critics of Science Diet, which happens to be all my CRF will eat, and has been eating since her diagnosis four years ago. She's in excellent condition for her many ailments and still doesn't need any kind of regular fluid therapy. So Science Diet is "ooo, crappy, bad?" Not by my experience, and the same goes for my boss' chocolate lab. She eats Science Diet dog food even while pregnant and had the most gorgeous glossy coat, as do her new seven little chocolate boys. The stud server will usually expect payment or a puppy, and the stud for Sugar was initially going to take payment until he saw her and later the pups. Little does he know that the cheap grocery store food he feeds his dogs aren't going to maintain that beauty. Baby wipes might kill a cat if they ate the whole box. Using a baby wipe regardless of the ingredients isn't going to do anything just because one of the components in one quantity or another is toxic. SignatureBrandy??Alexandre? http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you? > > I think I'll just stick to erring on the side of caution and avoid using > > potentially toxic substances in and on my cats as much as possible. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > figure that on my own, but I did drop everything and RACE home after I > thought I killed my cat with a baby wipe. Oh no! ;-( I didn't mean to frighten to you - I just wanted you to know that some seemingly innocuous products contain substances that are toxic to cats. Although most cats could probably tolerate the amount of red blood cell damage caused by PG in baby wipes with occasional use, I don't how well a debilitated or recovering cat would respond - or if there are any drug interactions with his medications which could produce an increased toxic effect or synergistic effect or increase the half-life - or a cummulative effect with other products - and I haven't seen any literature that studied PG under these circumstances. The general rule of thumb that I've found the safest is "When in doubt, leave it out" - especially when a debilated or recovering cat is involved. Of course, I can laugh at the > hilarity now...but man, was I in a frenzy. As if racing home would make > a cat any less dead, if it were, in fact, dead. ;) But anyway, you get > my drift? I sure do. I didn't mean to frighten to you. Phil. >>>I think I'll just stick to erring on the side of caution and avoid using >>>potentially toxic substances in and on my cats as much as possible. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > that some seemingly innocuous products contain substances that are toxic to > cats. It's all good. :) No harm no foul. Or some such cliché. > The general rule of thumb that I've found the safest is "When in doubt, > leave it out" - especially when a debilated or recovering cat is involved. YYeah, oddly, I had no intention of using the wipes ON Jasper until I knew if they were safe or not. I got them for cleaning up around the litter box and such. It was my darling husband that went ahead and used one on him...which prompted me to post the question. I didn't think they could be too harmful, but I definitely didn't want to take any chances...and then Tim went and used 'em...I almost killed him! :) > Of course, I can laugh at the > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I sure do. I didn't mean to frighten to you. Well, like I said. I laughed at myself when I arrived home, opened the door to the bedroom where Jasper has been isolated and there he was, sitting on the futon, all cute and he gave me like 4 squeaks. "Yay! You're home! I'm not dead. Now pet me!" :) Pam > (...) > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > This is true, but only if fed in relatively large doses, No. The FDA prohibited the inclusion of propylene glycol in cat foods in *any* amount. > > (...) > > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > No. The FDA prohibited the inclusion of propylene glycol in cat foods in > *any* amount. My reply referred to the statement "it causes Heinz bodies (clumps of oxidized, denatured hemoglobin) in feline blood and decreases the life of erythrocytes (RBCs).", as should have been obvious from the context, I think. However, if we're being really pedantic, I suppose I should've said "It is true that PG causes Heinz bodies, but only if fed in relatively large doses, etc..." HTH, Steve. > > > (...) > > > > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > is true that PG causes Heinz bodies, but only if fed in relatively > large doses, etc..." Heinz bodies aren't the only problem caused by PG in cats -- it also accumulates in the CNS. The toxicity study only addressed the hematological factor. Actually, the dose doesn't have to be that high to cause problems. Cats have a limited capacity for glucuroni?dation - which results in higher circulating levels relative to the dose. IOW, the dose doesn't have to be that high to cause potential toxicity. Sure, the levels of PG in some baby wipes are low and the PG levels are also low in some cleaning products - individually they're probably safe. But a little here and a little there.... well, you know the rest - it adds up. With all the potential toxins our cats are exposed to over which we have little or no control, I think we should make a serious effort to eliminate the potential toxins we do have control over. Phil (...) > Heinz bodies aren't the only problem caused by PG in cats -- it also > accumulates in the CNS. The toxicity study only addressed the hematological > factor. I haven't read any articles on CNS effects, and if you've got a citation handy, I'd be interested in having it. I did Google and get http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/chemical/pim443.htm#DivisionTitle:9.4.3.1%2 0%20Central%20Nervous%20System%20(CNS) which lists many minor toxic effects of PG, although the CNS effects sound fairly innocuous. > Actually, the dose doesn't have to be that high to cause problems. Cats > have a limited capacity for glucuronidation - which results in higher > circulating levels relative to the dose. IOW, the dose doesn't have to be > that high to cause potential toxicity. Well, clearly 6% of the diet does lead to haematological problems, and 6% is a small proportion *of the diet*. However a cat will - IMO - not be able to reach levels of concern from unexceptional contact with personal care and cleaning products, given the very small volume of PG in these products (typically <5%), and the limited contact the cat has with the products (e.g., in shampoo, the cat will probably *never* contact any PG because presumably the shampooer doesn't rub their cat on their foamy head. Same for shaving cream). Baby wipes might be safe; I don't know how much liquid they hold, or what proportion is PG. However, given that the stuff is being smeared on the cat, and will be licked off, it makes no sense to use 'em. Cleaning your cat's arse with a PG-containing wipe, on an everyday basis, is obviously a bit of a bad idea. And pointless, given other cleaning option. > Sure, the levels of PG in some baby wipes are low and the PG levels are also > low in some cleaning products - individually they're probably safe. But a > little here and a little there.... well, you know the rest - it adds up. Well, regarding PG-containing baby wipes, I agree that using these on a regular basis would be a bad idea. TBH, I would be just as concerned about other ingredients, given that the wipes are designed for external use. > With all the potential toxins our cats are exposed to over which we have > little or no control, I think we should make a serious effort to eliminate > the potential toxins we do have control over. Sure - I'm NOT saying use *all* PG-based products without concern, just saying that for many such products there is no objective risk. Plus, if you say PG is toxic, with no qualifiers, people can end up panicking unnecessarily - as happened via this thread. Anyway - I don't think (indoor) cats are subjected to many toxins at all? Steve. Phil P. wrote: I haven't read any articles on CNS effects, and if you've got a >citation handy, I'd be interested in having it. Its from one of my veterinary toxicology texts. I'll dig it up when I get a chance. >Sure - I'm NOT saying use *all* PG-based products without concern, just saying that for many such products there is no objective risk. Plus, if you say PG is toxic, with no qualifiers, people can end up panicking > unnecessarily - as happened via this thread. The reason why I'm so concerned with PG and Heinz bodies in cats is because their spleens have large pores - larger than most species - thus RBCs with Heinz bodies are not trapped in cat spleens as they are in other species. >Anyway - I don't think (indoor) cats are subjected to many toxins at >all? Not as many as outdoor cats. At least owners of indoor cats have much more control over what their cats ingest - if they take the time and trouble to cat-proof their homes. Phil krystalpaw.dilutesonly@gmail.com <krystalpaw@gmail.com> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: > I have to disagree with you Phil. Propylene Glycol is used to > dilute ivermec and that is given to cats, and recommended by > Revival so I doubt if it's toxic > > Beverley FYI, what the "panty wad" is about is my suggestion of Huggies Natural Baby Wipes and speaking of this product specifically, what's good for baby is good for kitty, thinking especially given that the ingredients differ from "standard" wipes. And for what it's worth, here are the ingredients in Huggies Natural: Water, Potassium Laureth Phosphate, Aloe Barbadensis, Glycerin, Polysorbate 20, Tetrasodium EDTA, DMDM Hydantoin, Methylparaben, Malic Acid, Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E is in the form of Tocopheryl Acetate) It also seemed the ingredients were identical in all the Huggies wipes, and none had PG. SignatureBrandy??Alexandre? http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you? > FYI, what the "panty wad" is about is my suggestion of Huggies Natural > Baby Wipes and speaking of this product specifically, what's good for > baby is good for kitty, <snip> > It also seemed the ingredients were identical in all the Huggies wipes, > and none had PG. You were simply lucky - since you obviously didn't have a clue about what was in the wipes before you used them on your cats. Your reasoning: "I figure if they're safe for baby, they're safe for kitty." is still utterly foolish and dangerous. > FYI, what the "panty wad" is about is my suggestion of Huggies Natural > Baby Wipes and speaking of this product specifically, what's good for > baby is good for kitty, <snip> > It also seemed the ingredients were identical in all the Huggies wipes, > and none had PG. You were simply lucky - since you obviously didn't have a clue about what was in the wipes before you used them on your cats. Your reasoning: "I figure if they're safe for baby, they're safe for kitty." is still utterly foolish and dangerous. kitkat <kitkatluna@aol.commie> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: > Any reason you guys think I couldnt use baby wipes on Jaspers > tushie? He is kind of messy right now. I got plain, unscented. > >:) > Pam I use the Huggies Natural on Kami in those cases. Sometime I have to make them a tad wetter to do the job. I figure if they're safe for baby, they're safe for kitty. SignatureBrandy??Alexandre? http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you? Brandy Alexandre wrote: > I figure if they're safe for > baby, they're safe for kitty. Presumably, baby doesn't lick his own butt ;) Jennifer <jhorn@voicenet.com> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: > Brandy Alexandre wrote: > >> I figure if they're safe for >> baby, they're safe for kitty. > > Presumably, baby doesn't lick his own butt ;) LOL! You know what I mean. Hehehe! SignatureBrandy??Alexandre? http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you? "Brandy Alexandre" <brandyalx@kittylittercomcast.net> wrote in message I figure if they're safe for > baby, they're safe for kitty. A baby's hemoglobin doesn't contain *eight* sulfhydryl reactive groups as does a cat's hemoglobin which makes feline hemoglobin highly susceptible to oxidation. Child sodium phosphate retention enemas such as Fleet Enemas are also extremely toxic and potentially fatal to cats because they cause severe electrolyte imbalances and life-threatening hypocalcemia. Phil Phil P. <phil@maxshouse.com> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: > "Brandy Alexandre" <brandyalx@kittylittercomcast.net> wrote in > message [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Phil I'm really impressed by your knowledge. Truly. But what does it have to do with Huggies Natural wipes? You said nothing about what's in them or if any residue from them in particular is toxic to cats. If you want to show off, please showw off on the subject at hand. Thank you. SignatureBrandy??Alexandre? http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you? > Phil P. <phil@maxshouse.com> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > I'm really impressed by your knowledge. Truly. But what does it > have to do with Huggies Natural wipes? I was commenting on your foolish assumption: "I figure if they're safe for baby, they're safe for kitty". Do you also assume baby foods containing onions are also safe for baby....? You said nothing about > what's in them or if any residue from them in particular is toxic to > cats. I wasn't commenting on any particular product - I was just telling you its foolish and dangerous to assume a product is safe for a cat because its safe for a baby. What part of that don't you understand? If you want to show off, please showw off on the subject at > hand. Thank you. LOL! I'll leave the showing off to you since you love showing off your well trained gaping a.shole. Phil P. <phil@maxshouse.com> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: > "Brandy Alexandre" <brandyalx@kittylittercomcast.net> wrote in > message [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > safe for baby, they're safe for kitty". Do you also assume baby > foods containing onions are also safe for baby....? Your were commenting on only a portion of what I wrote, snipping the specific product I mentioned just before the statement. > I wasn't commenting on any particular product - I know that. You would not have otherwise been able to indulge your insecurities by being a know-it-all. But the fact remains, that I *was* commenting on a specific product that you snipped. > LOL! I'll leave the showing off to you since you love showing off > your well trained gaping a.shole. Oh, well, you certainly hurt my feeling and sent my credibility up in flames. LOL! How much do you want to bet that such an attack didn't impress anyone and destroyed your own in the process. Gee, if you can't win on facts and intelligent discourse, throw in sexual acts and body parts. Moron. *plonk* SignatureBrandy??Alexandre? http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you? > Phil P. <phil@maxshouse.com> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > Your were commenting on only a portion of what I wrote, snipping the > specific product I mentioned just before the statement. The product is *irrelevant*. I was commenting on your asinine *reasoning* for assuming that *any* product is safe for a cat simply because its safe for baby. > > I wasn't commenting on any particular product - > > I know that. You would not have otherwise been able to indulge your > insecurities by being a know-it-all. Just about everyone in this group is a "know-it-all" compared to you! LOL! You couldn't even teach your cat where to scratch or learn how to trim her claws! So you made your cat paid for your ignorance and ineptness with her blood and bones. But the fact remains, that I > *was* commenting on a specific product that you snipped. ...and I was commenting on your dangerous and asinine reasoning that if *a* product is a safe for a baby its safe for a cat. > > LOL! I'll leave the showing off to you since you love showing off > > your well trained gaping a.shole. > > Oh, well, you certainly hurt my feeling and sent my credibility up > in flames. You have a lot of credibility in peep shows and porn theaters, but not much when it comes to cats... Have you maimed any more cats recently? >Gee, if you can't win on facts and intelligent discourse, Ahhh, butt I did win with facts and intelligent discourse. You just refuse to accept your reasoning is ludicrous. You should *never* ASSume *any* product is safe for a cat just because its safe for a baby. > throw in sexual acts and body parts. You did bring "showing off" up, did you not? That's what you show off, is it not? On 2005-02-23, Brandy Alexandre penned: > Phil P. <phil@maxshouse.com> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > impress anyone and destroyed your own in the process. Gee, if you can't win > on facts and intelligent discourse, throw in sexual acts and body parts. Did I miss a discussion of a sexual act? I'm sure I would have noticed something like that. Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca > On 2005-02-23, Brandy Alexandre penned: > > Phil P. <phil@maxshouse.com> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Did I miss a discussion of a sexual act? I'm sure I would have noticed > something like that. Um, I think Brandy Alexandre is a p*rn star. >> Did I miss a discussion of a sexual act? I'm sure I would have noticed >> something like that. > > Um, I think Brandy Alexandre is a p*rn star. Oh. Well then, carry on ... Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca Monique Y. Mudama <spam@bounceswoosh.org> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: >>> Did I miss a discussion of a sexual act? I'm sure I would have >>> noticed something like that. >> >> Um, I think Brandy Alexandre is a p*rn star. > > Oh. Well then, carry on ... Actually, it's a "was." I retired well over a decade ago, but some people like tocling to such things to use as weapons when they have nothing to say. Just to catch up the thinking people, I was a executive secretary after that, and now I'm an auditor doing forensic work on a/p and sales tax. SignatureBrandy??Alexandre? http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you? Brandy Alexandre wrote: > Monique Y. Mudama <spam@bounceswoosh.org> wrote in > rec.pets.cats.health+behav: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > nothing to say. Just to catch up the thinking people, I was a > executive secretary after that, Gee, I wonder how she got *that* job.... > and now I'm an auditor doing forensic > work on a/p and sales tax. We don't care. Your previous "career" negates anything else you do, no matter how much you'd like to forget about it. -L. > Brandy Alexandre wrote: > > Monique Y. Mudama <spam@bounceswoosh.org> wrote in [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > We don't care. Your previous "career" negates anything else you do, no > matter how much you'd like to forget about it. People can never turn over a new leaf?? What about an alcoholic, who is now recovered? What about a person who used to be into drugs, but is now clean, & has been for years? Personally, I don't see how Brandy's former life/career has anything to do with the present care of her cat. Cathy > -L. > > Brandy Alexandre wrote: > > > Monique Y. Mudama <spam@bounceswoosh.org> wrote in [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Personally, I don't see how Brandy's former life/career has anything to do > with the present care of her cat. Me either. If what Phil says is true I can see why he is still mad about her declawing Kami. But then again, Phil has given good advice to Carl, who just declawed three kittens. As for Lyn, well, she just lives for this kind of self-righteous stance. > Me either. If what Phil says is true I can see why he is still mad about > her declawing Kami. But then again, Phil has given good advice to > Carl, who just declawed three kittens. And I would also try to help the butcher bitch if she had a problem with her cat... I have never, and will never allow my personal feelings interfere with trying to help a cat. I would *never* hurt the cat to spite the owner regardless of how big of an a.shole she is. Did you know she tried to cure Kami's biting by declawing her? Have you ever heard of such stupidity? The cat bit because the bimbo petted the cat to overstimulation and then probably also tried to restrain the cat to endure some more stimulation. The only way the cat could respond is by biting because she she couldn't get away. The cat attacked her ankles and legs every time the bimbo walked by because the cat was probably expecting another treatment. She got complaints from her makeup artist or director - I don't remember the whole story - because of the scratches, so had the cat declawed. I'm sure some of the old timers remember the whole story. Phil > > Me either. If what Phil says is true I can see why he is still mad about > > her declawing Kami. But then again, Phil has given good advice to [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > I'm sure some of the old timers remember the whole story. Well that really is sad for Kami. Mary <marys@catlovernospam.com> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: >> > Me either. If what Phil says is true I can see why he is still >> > mad about her declawing Kami. But then again, Phil has given [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >> > Well that really is sad for Kami. Actually that's really sad for anyone who believes that load of BS. SignatureBrandy??Alexandre? http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you? On 2005-02-24, Brandy Alexandre penned: > Mary <marys@catlovernospam.com> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: >>> >> Well that really is sad for Kami. > > Actually that's really sad for anyone who believes that load of BS. Well, those of us who weren't around back in the golden ages don't have your version of the story. Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca Monique Y. Mudama <spam@bounceswoosh.org> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: >> Mary <marys@catlovernospam.com> wrote in >> rec.pets.cats.health+behav: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Well, those of us who weren't around back in the golden ages don't > have your version of the story. There are no "versions. There is the truth and then there is what people want to twist it into for whatever reasons or purposes. I certainly remember, and what I remember is that people took fragments of things I said out of context, gave opinions on that context, and everyone else started creating issues and making contexts that in the end had absolutely nothing to do with what was originally said or done. As you can see, it's gotten to the point where this Phil person has developed a whole new backstory, and these lies have been repeated so often, they are believed to be true. However sorry anyone feels for Kami based on their belief of the situation, I feel sorry for the cats of those who engage in this kind of behavior. It puts to rest another myth that cats are inherently excellent judges of character, otherwise they would run far and fast. SignatureBrandy??Alexandre? http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you? > Monique Y. Mudama <spam@bounceswoosh.org> wrote in > rec.pets.cats.health+behav: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > developed a whole new backstory, and these lies have been repeated so > often, they are believed to be true. Well, those who were wondering why you X-no archive your posts, shouldn't wonder anymore... With no records to haunt you, you can make up any history that suits you. However sorry anyone feels for > Kami based on their belief of the situation, I feel sorry for the cats > of those who engage in this kind of behavior. It puts to rest another > myth that cats are inherently excellent judges of character, otherwise > they would run far and fast. ...and you would have a dog instead of a maimed cat. > Well, those who were wondering why you X-no archive your posts, > shouldn't wonder anymore... With no records to haunt you, you > can make up any history that suits you. Heh. Same goes for one who changes their email address multiple times after a history of psychotic posts, then decides to be "normal". Though, she[1] can't quite pull it off yet. Think about it. [1] rosefan@email.com crazyaboutfelines@yahoo.com marys@catlovernospam.com SignatureCheryl > > Well, those who were wondering why you X-no archive your posts, > > shouldn't wonder anymore... With no records to haunt you, you [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Think about it. As opposed to those who change their email address because they used to hang out in hacker and troll groups, jlh@petitmorte.net? Then lie about it later? How damned stupid can you be? You Google everyone, don't find jack, and meanwhile if anyone Googles you, that's what they find. Bwa ha ha. Idiot. And I didn't even have to Google you. I remember you and your delightful buds. > [1] > rosefan@email.com > crazyaboutfelines@yahoo.com > marys@catlovernospam.com | > On Thu 24 Feb 2005 10:16:36p, Phil P. wrote in | > rec.pets.cats.health+behav (news:oMwTd.6487$Ba3.2730@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net): | > > Well, those who were wondering why you X-no archive your posts, | > > shouldn't wonder anymore... With no records to haunt you, you [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] | As opposed to those who change their email address because they | used to hang out in hacker and troll groups, jlh@petitmorte.net? WTF is petitmorte.net? > > Well, those who were wondering why you X-no archive your posts, > > shouldn't wonder anymore... With no records to haunt you, you > > can make up any history that suits you. > > Heh. Same goes for one who changes their email address multiple times > after a history of psychotic posts, then decides to be "normal". > Though, she[1] can't quite pull it off yet. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > -- > Cheryl Well, that's partially because she finally got her butt spanked by her ISP... -L. > > > Well, those who were wondering why you X-no archive your posts, > > > shouldn't wonder anymore... With no records to haunt you, you [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > -L. In your dreams, you shrill harridan who found a husband by going online to find freaks who like fat chicks. > In your dreams, you shrill harridan who found a husband by going online to > find freaks who like fat chicks. Hey! Nothing wrong with finding your husband online! That's how I found mine, although it was an accidental meeting of sorts. He saw my AOL profile and thought I might be a friend of his from high school named Kelly who moved to MD. I wasn't, but we kept talking anyway :) Signature-Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net "Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG > > In your dreams, you shrill harridan who found a husband by going online to > > find freaks who like fat chicks. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > and thought I might be a friend of his from high school named Kelly who > moved to MD. I wasn't, but we kept talking anyway :) No offense intended. I just don't like Lynnie. She apparently had a friend hijack my Bellsouth account and send out a trojan from our account. Now THAT will get you in trouble. Happily someone at Bellsouth is savvy enough to know what's up. > No offense intended. I just don't like Lynnie. She apparently had a > friend hijack my Bellsouth account and send out a trojan > from our account. Now THAT will get you in trouble. Happily > someone at Bellsouth is savvy enough to know what's up. Just curious, how do you know it was Lyn? I've been getting notices from other mail servers that an email I supposedly sent out contains a virus. I didn't send out these emails, but my email address must have been harvested and someone is using it. I think it started happening right about the time I changed news servers. I forgot to put the "no spam" in my email address when I set up the new account. Signature-Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net "Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG > > No offense intended. I just don't like Lynnie. She apparently had a > > friend hijack my Bellsouth account and send out a trojan > > from our account. Now THAT will get you in trouble. Happily > > someone at Bellsouth is savvy enough to know what's up. > > Just curious, how do you know it was Lyn? Because she *knows* everything about me, Kelly. I'm a single Mother, remember? And I have sour grapes because I never got a Ph.D...and whatever else BS she wants to make up in her mind about me. </me rolls eye> I swear the freak is obsessed. >I've been getting notices from > other mail servers that an email I supposedly sent out contains a virus. I > didn't send out these emails, but my email address must have been harvested > and someone is using it. I think it started happening right about the time > I changed news servers. I forgot to put the "no spam" in my email address > when I set up the new account. Just FYI, I get emails from people at AIparenting that hotmail won't let me download because they contain viruses, but when I contact the sender, they don't know anything about it, and can't find it with their virus protection software. It may be that someone has picked up a worm and it is spreading via OE (if you use that) or another newsreader, to people in AIparenting. -L. > Just FYI, I get emails from people at AIparenting that hotmail won't > let me download because they contain viruses, but when I contact the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > -L. Thanks, I've been meaning to look into another newsreader. I do use OE out of habit. Signature-Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net "Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG >Thanks, I've been meaning to look into another newsreader. I do use OE out >of habit. Mozilla Thunderbird works and is a free download from http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/ You never know for certain where mail or articles come from. It is possible to fake headers, hijack an insecure computer, etc. > >Thanks, I've been meaning to look into another newsreader. I do use OE out > >of habit. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > You never know for certain where mail or articles come from. It is > possible to fake headers, hijack an insecure computer, etc. William, I am trying out thunderbird. Thanks for the suggestion. So far it is pretty nice. Very much like OE in interface, but easier to use. > > Just FYI, I get emails from people at AIparenting that hotmail won't > > let me download because they contain viruses, but when I contact the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Thanks, I've been meaning to look into another newsreader. I do use OE out > of habit. Kelly, what your good buddy here, or one of her buds did, was an intentional hijacking of my Bellsouth account for the purpose of sending a trojan. Not the same thing at all. It's the act of a desperate censor. Wahahahaha! <snip> >Kelly, what your good buddy here, or one of her buds did, was an intentional >hijacking of my Bellsouth account for the purpose of sending a trojan. Not >the same >thing at all. It's the act of a desperate censor. Wahahahaha! How did they hijack your account? Are you running a firewall? Justin > <snip> > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > How did they hijack your account? Are you running a firewall? I am now. I don't know how they did it, that's just what the guy from Bellsouth said. They could tell from the beginning the thing did not originate in this machine. He said they are investigating and will tell me what they find. > > > No offense intended. I just don't like Lynnie. She apparently had a > > > friend hijack my Bellsouth account and send out a trojan [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > whatever else BS she wants to make up in her mind about me. </me rolls > eye> I swear the freak is obsessed. We'll see when the investigation is over. >Just FYI, I get emails from people at AIparenting that hotmail won't >let me download because they contain viruses, but when I contact the >sender, they don't know anything about it, and can't find it with their >virus protection software. It may be that someone has picked up a worm >and it is spreading via OE (if you use that) or another newsreader, to >people in AIparenting. Some of the viruses cause the computer to send out the virus to one person and use the email address of somebody else as the return email. So, chance are, somebody who would have both email addresses in their address book is the one who actually has the virus. I got blamed for one last year because somebody on a horse list (who happens to hate me), got an email with a virus that appeared to come from me. I haven't even been at that horse list for over a year (because of her and her friends), but I did get a similar email the day before, also from somebody on that list, and it too had a virus attached. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com >>Just FYI, I get emails from people at AIparenting that hotmail won't >>let me download because they contain viruses, but when I contact the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > day before, also from somebody on that list, and it too had a virus > attached. FYI--sending viri is not the same thing as hijacking an account and sending a trojan to someone. Not the same thing at all. You can't do it accidentally, for one thing. >>>Just FYI, I get emails from people at AIparenting that hotmail won't >>>let me download because they contain viruses, but when I contact the [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >sending a trojan to someone. Not the same thing at all. You can't do it >accidentally, for one thing. Of course. I was responding to the post above about viruses and how they seem to come from somebody who can't find the virus on their computer. Hacking into a system is a much different situation. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com Mary - And how are your CATS? > Mary - And how are your CATS? I thought you wanted to silence me? Now you want me to talk? I talk about my cats all the time. I have two now, had several growing up, had one for 20 years that died in 2001. If you read the gd newsgroup you would know all about my cats and their asthma, hyerthyroid, heart problem, and EGC. I have never heard a word about yours, and my question stands. Do you have any, or do you just lurk and jump in whenever tightassed control freak netKKKop wannabe "socialist" fatassed, sanctimonious freaks like usenetlyn@yahoo.com rear their incredibly ugly heads? > Some of the viruses cause the computer to send out the virus to one > person and use the email address of somebody else as the return email. > So, chance are, somebody who would have both email addresses in their > address book is the one who actually has the virus. Yep - there was a worm last year that spread like wildfire in another group last year, and it was the same as you described. That's why I use third-party email accounts, and read and post to the ngs via Google. I have a subroutine DH wrote that acts as a news reader, but uses the Google site as an interface. It doesn't store email addresses or anything, though, so it's safe. > I got blamed for one last year because somebody on a horse list (who > happens to hate me), got an email with a virus that appeared to come > from me. I haven't even been at that horse list for over a year > (because of her and her friends), but I did get a similar email the > day before, also from somebody on that list, and it too had a virus > attached. What I have received have been regular emails from people writing to me, but hotmail detects a virus and won't let me open it. Another thing I found was that another person posted to the ng but what came through wasn't her post, but a partial letter from someone written in Dutch, and it obviously was a letter someone else had written. Weird stuff, that. -L. >>Some of the viruses cause the computer to send out the virus to one >>person and use the email address of somebody else as the return [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > -L. Your Comcast IP is still hanging out, though. Anyone can trace any post or email you make, toots. lol > > In your dreams, you shrill harridan who found a husband by going online to > > find freaks who like fat chicks. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > and thought I might be a friend of his from high school named Kelly who > moved to MD. I wasn't, but we kept talking anyway :) Just ignore her Kelly. She's nothing but trolling at this point - it's all she has left to do. -L. > > > In your dreams, you shrill harridan who found a husband by going > online to [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Just ignore her Kelly. She's nothing but trolling at this point - it's > all she has left to do. I'm doing what I have always done, you miserable asswipe. Talking about cats in a cat group. Not abortion, not religion, and not pornography, as you like to do. Fool. lol > > Monique Y. Mudama <spam@bounceswoosh.org> wrote in > > rec.pets.cats.health+behav: [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > wonder anymore... With no records to haunt you, you can make up any history > that suits you. Rich, considering the source - who used to do the very same... (Sorry, couldn't ignore that one! In general, he *has* been incredibly good/civil lately.) Cathy Brandy Alexandre wrote: <snip> > There are no "versions. There is the truth and then there is what > people want to twist it into for whatever reasons or purposes. I > certainly remember, and what I remember is that people took fragments > of things I said out of context, gave opinions on that context, and > everyone else started creating issues and making contexts that in the > end had absolutely nothing to do with what was originally said or done. > As you can see, it's gotten to the point where this Phil person has > developed a whole new backstory, and these lies have been repeated so > often, they are believed to be true. However sorry anyone feels for > Kami based on their belief of the situation, I feel sorry for the cats [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Brandy Alexandre® > http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Um, yeah, whatever, Karleen. We all know your twisted history with Kami - it's in the archives despite your attempts to hide it. -L. Brandy Alexandre wrote: <snip> > There are no "versions. There is the truth and then there is what > people want to twist it into for whatever reasons or purposes. I > certainly remember, and what I remember is that people took fragments > of things I said out of context, gave opinions on that context, and > everyone else started creating issues and making contexts that in the > end had absolutely nothing to do with what was originally said or done. > As you can see, it's gotten to the point where this Phil person has > developed a whole new backstory, and these lies have been repeated so > often, they are believed to be true. However sorry anyone feels for > Kami based on their belief of the situation, I feel sorry for the cats > of those who engage in this kind of behavior. It puts to rest another > myth that cats are inherently excellent judges of character, otherwise > they would run far and fast. > > -- > Brandy Alexandre? > http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Um, yeah, whatever, Karleen. We all know your twisted history with Kami - it's in the archives despite your attempts to hide it. -L. Like your constant battle with obesity and your finding the current loser you are married to in a sleazebag chat room? > Like your constant battle with obesity and your finding > the current loser you are married to in a sleazebag chat room? That's completely uncalled for. I'm sure there are plenty of us here, including me, who have/are currently struggling with our weight. I know you have the right to call people names, blah blah, but this is getting old quick. Signature-Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net "Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG KellyH <Kelly@farringtonsNOSPAM.net> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: >> Like your constant battle with obesity and your finding >> the current loser you are married to in a sleazebag chat room? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > weight. I know you have the right to call people names, blah > blah, but this is getting old quick. LOL! I've never been married and have been working with the world's cutest 23-year-old personal trainer for about year and have been wearing single digit sizes--the real kind, not like some folks who get their single digits by adding the two in their size together. ;) And I was only a size 12 when I started. SignatureBrandy??Alexandre? http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you? > KellyH <Kelly@farringtonsNOSPAM.net> wrote in > rec.pets.cats.health+behav: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > their single digits by adding the two in their size together. ;) And > I was only a size 12 when I started. Um. Brandy. Go back and read that again. I was not talking about you. Mary <marys@catlovernospam.com> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: > "Brandy Alexandre" <brandyalx@kittylittercomcast.net> wrote in > message [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Um. Brandy. Go back and read that again. I was not talking > about you. I thought the husband/chat room comment was directed at me. As a result I thought you were defending me, and I was commenting on both. If it wasn't about me... um... nevermind. :) SignatureBrandy??Alexandre? http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you? > > Like your constant battle with obesity and your finding > > the current loser you are married to in a sleazebag chat room? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > have the right to call people names, blah blah, but this is getting old > quick. For all you know *I* have a weight problem, KellyH. Lyn has made untrue allegations about me (lying for one thing, which is something I never do), has netcopped me to my ISP just for speaking my mind, and now I get a notice that someone hijacked my DSL connection and sent out a Trojan with it. You read this group every day. If she doesn't f.ck with me I don't f.ck with her. In any case, you can f.ck off too. Killfile me if you don't like what I have to say. > For all you know *I* have a weight problem, KellyH. Lyn has > made untrue allegations about me (lying for one thing, which is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > her. In any case, you can f.ck off too. Killfile me if you don't > like what I have to say. Oh I know. I always have the option of f.cking off and/or killfiling you. So far only PW and one other recent troll have earned a place in my killfile from this group. I was right the first time, I should just stay out of this. Signature-Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net "Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG > > Like your constant battle with obesity and your finding > > the current loser you are married to in a sleazebag chat room? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > have the right to call people names, blah blah, but this is getting old > quick. Thanks for defending me but just ignore her. She's just getting desperate. -L. > > > Like your constant battle with obesity and your finding > > > the current loser you are married to in a sleazebag chat room? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Thanks for defending me but just ignore her. She's just getting > desperate. You might be getting desperate pretty soon here if you were the one who f.cked with my Bellsouth account. (...) > Um, yeah, whatever, Karleen. We all know your > twisted history with Kami - it's in the archives [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Like your constant battle with obesity and your finding > the current loser you are married to in a sleazebag chat room? This is not so much a train wreck as a train that hit a car that hit a truck that hit a plane and the whole caboodle was then hit by a meteor. S. > (...) > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > S. Think so? If you had gotten the letter from your ISP telling you that someone sent out a Trojan remotely from your account, you'd probaby really think so. Lyn has decided she will get me out of here at any cost, and has accused me of all kinds of bullshit when the fact of the matter is, all I do is speak my mind. She is a self-avowed Socialist (she and Castro are the only ones left, right? Oh, no, it's only Lyn!) who proudly proclaimed in another group (according to an informative email I just received) that she found her BBW-loving hubby online. I think that's funny. So sue me. :0) > (...) > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > S. Hey - I've said exactly *nothing* to trolly Mary. The only one I have replied to is cat-mutilating Karleen. -L. > > (...) > > > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Hey - I've said exactly *nothing* to trolly Mary. The only one I have > replied to is cat-mutilating Karleen. Hey, I'm happy you married one of those uh, "guys" who likes fat chicks and drives a pickup. You go babe. :) > There are no "versions. There is the truth and then there is what > people want to twist it into for whatever reasons or purposes. I [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > myth that cats are inherently excellent judges of character, otherwise > they would run far and fast. Then what is the truth? (I'm fairly new here - after being an original poster to rpc before the split and then leaving for quite a few years). Was Kami declawed? If so, why was she declawed? Did you know what declawing involved before having it done? Hugs, CatNipped CatNipped <lcrews@houston.rr.com> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: > Then what is the truth? (I'm fairly new here - after being an > original poster to rpc before the split and then leaving for quite [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > CatNipped Kami was born in 1988 and demonstrated that her name was The Kamikaze Kitty and was so dubbed at the tender age of 8 weeks. She is still and always was a squirrely, mood-swinging, "my way or the highway" princess, given to flying attacks at anything that moved and rousing games of "velcro kitty" at curtains, the cat tree, and all things cats do. I grew up with cats and the philosophy that once you take in a pet, you keep it for life. Kami's mood swings were never just "I've changed my mind," but near psychotic episodes where she would seriously intend to harm you for no reason. Usually when cats say stop, you stop, they stop, and you go do something else. But she was a wee bit different--and calculating. The cable guy stepped on her tail and she did what cats do--reow, hiss, run. But she will not forgive and forget. She watched and waited, tail twitching, until he was leaving and she flew off the stairs and latched onto his leg. It was vengeful (and amusing, but not). I waited for her to calm down, slow down, grow up, grow out of it, but suffering some rather severe scratches and bites, I decided I either had to minimize her ability to do damage by declawing her, or give her up. She was declawed in either 1992 or 1993. And, no, there was very little said in cat circles at the time about what it really was and the potential effects. We live relatively peacefully now, and while she still went into fits of rage (for reasons this group had a great deal of fun fabricating and pontificating upon said fabrications), it was more manageable. Now she's almost 17 (April 3), and gimps around like an old cat. She sort of "splats" when she jumps down from the couch and bed because her hips are going, but her vet said if she wants to jump, let her jump. Sometimes when she does walk well, I'll give her some aspirin. But those hips and hind legs are perfectly fine when it comes to trying to put her in the pet taxi. Jeez! Speaking of the pet taxi, She recently had a ($580) crisis with what first appeared to be a UTI, turned out to be a kidney infection, and bounced back after her course of meds to a bladder infection while she was boarded for a couple of days (I boarded her rather than had my neighbor feed her just for that possibility). When I went to pick her up, it took two techs to get her out of the kennel and into the taxi. One of them was the tech who always said she was such a good girl and so easy to draw blood from and blah, blah, blah. I kept denying it, "No, you don't see her at home. She's got you so snowed!" Well, now he knows. There are even several seriously deep gouges in the rim of the door to the carrier that he pointed out were her teeth and refusal to get in. This is a 17 year old CRF cat with a heart murmur, arthritis, and asthma. Episodes are few and far between, thank god, but I still have my cat, a very good relationship with her, I love her dearly, and she loves me. She's just nuts. ;) SignatureBrandy??Alexandre? http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you? >Now she's almost 17 (April 3), and gimps around like an old cat. >She sort of "splats" when she jumps down from the couch and bed >because her hips are going, but her vet said if she wants to jump, >let her jump. Sometimes when she does walk well, I'll give her some >aspirin. But those hips and hind legs are perfectly fine when it >comes to trying to put her in the pet taxi. Jeez! Have you tried glucosamine? I know some vets still recommend small dosages of aspiren, but the glucosamine is much safer, and does work well. I've been using it with my 18 year old boy, and he's been doing much better now. I've even found him on the counter in my room, and I don't have a stairway for him there. And he rarely begs to be lifted up to chairs and laps now - he is able to get himself up. I give a glucosamine tablet that he wil eat sometimes and skip sometimes; so he gets higher doses when he is willing. And he gets a smaller daily amount in his cat food (Royal Canin Senior). I would also say that this cat food seems to give him more energy too. Either that, or he just feels better and shows it. I highly recommend this food for anybody with elderly cats. It is recommended for cats 15 and over. The kibble is also a tad softer to make it easier for them eat. Maynard loves it, and has really shown inprovement since starting on it. He also showed a downturn when the samples ended, and I went a few days before buying a bag. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com Meghan Noecker <friesian@zoocrewphoto.com> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: > I highly recommend this food for anybody with elderly cats. It is > recommended for cats 15 and over. The kibble is also a tad softer to > make it easier for them eat. Maynard loves it, and has really shown > inprovement since starting on it. He also showed a downturn when the > samples ended, and I went a few days before buying a bag. Kami is anti-dry food. I get k/d dry and she nibbles at it, but there's no way she'll accept it as her mainstay. SignatureBrandy??Alexandre? http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you? >Kami is anti-dry food. I get k/d dry and she nibbles at it, but >there's no way she'll accept it as her mainstay. Understandable. I would take the glucosamine tablets and grind them up and mix them in with her food. Try it for a week or so and see if she doesn't get around better. Won't hurt anything to try, and will probably keep her more active. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com Meghan Noecker <friesian@zoocrewphoto.com> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: > >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Won't hurt anything to try, and will probably keep her more > active. There's actually a holistic pet store down the street from my temp residence here. I'll just bet they have something. She doesn't do a lot, but there were two young cable guys here for an hour yesterday and I could swear she was flirting. SignatureBrandy??Alexandre? http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you? Here's your FREE copy of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual: http://makeashorterlink.com/?G34D2527A Just ASK The Amazing Puppy Wizard if you need any additional FREE heelp. There's NO arbritrary INFORMATION in your FREE copy of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual so study it well and do and follow ALL the EXXXERCISES AS INSTRUCTED... it's a PRECISE SCIENCE or it COULDN'T GET 100% CONSISTENT NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS for all handlers and all dogs in all fields or utilities and behaviors all over the Whole |
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