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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / February 2005Nutri-CAT
Hi, I've been posting about my cat - she has a 1.5 cm hepatic mass in the center of her liver..She has not been eating. I found out about Nutri-Cal through this site and I think it really has made a difference in her appearance.. She doesn't have that "gaunt" look..I give her about two 1 inch portions per day. I also give her appetite stimulant pills from the vet twice per day as directed. She does eat, but sporadically and in very small amounts. I take her dry IAMS food, pour about 25 pieces in a bowl and wet it with warm water. That works ok..she gobbles a few pieces down, then loses interest. Only unusual thing is that she sniffs and sneezes at the food..sniffs and sneezes..Other unusual thing is that she follows me in the kitchen, even though she's disinterested in the food. It's like she's looking for something, but can't say what. Question is..is Nutri-cal ruining her appetite, so that she doesn't eat her food? Can she survive on just Nutri-cal? I'm worried about her digestive tract "freezing up"..It's been about two weeks and she hasn't had a bowel movement.. thanks David > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Question is..is Nutri-cal ruining her appetite, so that she doesn't eat her > food? Can she survive on just Nutri-cal? During a critical phase of anorexia, yes, but it takes about 5 or 6 teaspoons/day. Nutri-Cal isn't designed to replace the cats normal diet, its only supposed to provide minimal nutrition for energy and to avert HL and also so the cat doesn't catabolize body protein. If she's not eating, try offering her canned kitten food - its packed with nutrition which will help offset her losses and keep up with her daily energy needs. > I'm worried about her digestive tract "freezing up"..It's been about two > weeks and she hasn't had a bowel movement.. Two weeks? Did the vet take an x-ray of her colon and digestive tract? She may very well be constipated - if not obstipated. Constipation will sure make a cat not want to eat! The longer feces remain in the colon, the drier and harder they become and more difficult to eliminate. She may need a stool softner and/or a laxative or even manual evacuation. Constipation in cats can be a real problem because whatever the cause, it tends to be self-perpetuating because dry and hard stools can be painful and difficult to eliminate - which makes the cat voluntarily inhibit pooping. Did you tell your vet she hasn't pooped in two weeks? Best of luck, Phil Hi, Since she basically hasn't been eating, there's nothing to poop..She's been drinking, though. She was checked for constipation - they didn't find anything.. They did a coag test and it came out ok, however, the vet and I decided that it was 99% sure tumor in liver was cancerous. Surgery would be $1,000K +..too much money with the accompanying risk. Also, tests came back as strong chance of FIV...which would only cause more tumors. Vet recommended quarterzone injections..said that sometimes that helps..We're going to try this weekend.. David I would agressively pursue hand feeding her. Ask the vet for a/d and a force feeding syringe. What are they thinking? > They did a coag test and it came out ok, however, the vet and I decided > that it was 99% sure tumor in liver was cancerous. Surgery would be $1,000K [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > David > They did a coag test and it came out ok, however, the vet and I decided > that it was 99% sure tumor in liver was cancerous. All the more reason to cut it out! Where's your vet from, Krypton? Most vets I know need histopathology or cytology to distinguish benign tumors from malignant tumors. I seriously think you should find another vet. Surgery would be $1,000K > +..too much money with the accompanying risk. Also, tests came back as > strong chance of FIV... "Strong chance of FIV"? WTF is your vet talking about? If the in-house ELISA produced a postive result, the results should be confirmed by the Western Blot. A negative ELISA snap can become a positive if the test isn't performed properly. > which would only cause more tumors. FIV is a *Lentiviruses* and not oncogenic. FeLV is oncogenic (Oncornavirus). Where did your vet get his DVM? Mail order from a matchbook cover? This guy sounds like a real moron! Get your cat away from him! Quick! > Vet recommended quarterzone injections..said that sometimes that > helps..We're going to try this weekend.. David, you seem like a very caring companion to your cat but your vet is an idiot and grossy incompetent and giving you bogus information. *Please* find another vet because the vet you have is actually dangerous. Good luck, Phil Whoa!! I'm not a vet, I could be repeating things wrong..Don't get so down on the vet... It was my decision not to do the biopsy, the vet wanted to. I felt that whether the tumor was cancerous or not, it would have to be removed. Why expose the cat to extra procedures...I said it was my feeling that the tumor was cancerous, and the vet said that she would agree... In other words, they were doing the biopsy as a matter of procedure and for back-up..but all the evidence was that it was cancerous. The vet didn't do an FIV test because he said they have a high rate of false-positives. The cat was not showing many FIV symptoms (fever, for example) Also, the sonogram did not show the FIV symptoms (scarring on the organs). I also did force feed the cat successfully last week, and she crapped brown spots all over the floor and my bed. Plus she was miserable and shaken..She is eating some, I weigh her every day (get on my digital scale with her, then without her and subtract the weight) and her weight is stable..she's even gone up half a pound.. The $1000 surgery cost is just too expensive for me..we will have to go with a less invasive procedure. I respect my vet, his receptionist is also my cat sitter who first alerted me to problems way back last October..I brought the cat in for tests then, but nothing was found.. The facility is excellent, well run, has been around for years and has many happy people in the waiting room..If you're getting a bad impression of him..it's because of me being in the middle of everything. I feel overwhelmed and sad. > Whoa!! I'm not a vet, I could be repeating things wrong..Don't get so down > on the vet... [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > I feel overwhelmed and sad. David, who are you talking to? Hi Mary, I'm talking to Phil.. Well, I called vet at lunch, bringing in Kitty for the Combo FIV/FLV test..If it's negative for both, will probably go for surgery...$$$$$Ouch David > Hi Mary, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > David Kitty will love you for it. If you include a snip of the post to which you are referring, and maybe do not change the subject line, we could all follow better. Just a suggestion. > Whoa!! I'm not a vet, I could be repeating things wrong..Don't get so down > on the vet... I sure hope you're misinterpreting the vet! > It was my decision not to do the biopsy, the vet wanted to. I felt that > whether the tumor was cancerous or not, it would have to be removed. Why [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > In other words, they were doing the biopsy as a matter of procedure and for > back-up..but all the evidence was that it was cancerous. All the more reason to remove it and send the entire mass to a lab for a determination -- Which is what I would do. > The vet didn't do an FIV test because he said they have a high rate of > false-positives. The cat was not showing many FIV symptoms (fever, for > example) Also, the sonogram did not show the FIV symptoms (scarring on the > organs). Then I don't understand what you meant by: "Also, tests came back as strong chance of FIV...which would only cause more tumors". I am I missing something? > I also did force feed the cat successfully last week, and she crapped brown > spots all over the floor and my bed. Plus she was miserable and shaken..She > is eating some, I weigh her every day (get on my digital scale with her, > then without her and subtract the weight) and her weight is stable..she's > even gone up half a pound.. That's not a very accurate method for monitoring a cat's weight. > The $1000 surgery cost is just too expensive for me..we will have to go > with a less invasive procedure. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > The facility is excellent, well run, has been around for years and has many > happy people in the waiting room.. Sounds like you have a good relationship with your vet. He should have no problems with accepting installment payments for removing the mass and follow-up treatments. If you're getting a bad impression of > him..it's because of me being in the middle of everything. > > I feel overwhelmed and sad. Speak to your vet about a payment plan. Good luck, Phil Hi, What I meant was..they didn't do an FIV test, but the Vet felt that it could be FIV..however, the blood work didn't have all the usual "markers"..and there was no fever. He didn't want to do the test itself because of the false positives..but now I wish he had. Payment plan for surgery you suggested is a good idea, rather than paying for one big chunk at once!! David > The vet didn't do an FIV test because he said they have a high rate of > false-positives. The cat was not showing many FIV symptoms (fever, for > example) Also, the sonogram did not show the FIV symptoms (scarring on the > organs). Then I don't understand what you meant by: "Also, tests came back as strong chance of FIV...which would only cause more tumors". I am I missing something? Hi, Tumor in Kitty's liver could be caused by FIP, not FIV, I got the name wrong!! See?? I'm not a vet. Having Biopsy done tomorrow to see whether it is operable, is it cancerous, or is it an FIP tumor...what is it. That's the latest. David >"Strong chance of FIV"? WTF is your vet talking about? If the in->house >ELISA produced a postive result, the results should be confirmed by the >Western Blot. A negative ELISA snap can become a positive if the test >isn't >performed properly. > Hi, > > Tumor in Kitty's liver could be caused by FIP, not FIV, I got the name > wrong!! See?? I'm not a vet. > Having Biopsy done tomorrow to see whether it is operable, is it cancerous, > or is it an FIP tumor...what is it. That's the latest. David, FIP is caused by a mutated coronavirus. Feline coronaviruses do not cause cancer. They said that FIP could cause tumors in the liver, I do understand that it does not cause cancer. I read on the net a very good description of FIP, and Kitty did have one of the symptoms - fluid on the belly - her back tummy was really hanging down..you could feel the fluid in there. But it could also be from something else. Kitty went in for her biopsy yesterday, I get the results on Monday, then we'll make THE DECISION. Meanwhile, she goes in Saturday for a quarterzone shot, they said this helps things in the meantime.. If the tumor is cancer, and it is operable..what are Kitty's chances of surviving surgery? I guess that even if it isn't cancer, it should be removed...Will that cure her.. How long is recuperation? Does she suddenly go back to normal and start eating the minute she gets home after the tumor is removed? If it's inoperable cancer tumor, then we'll use chemotherapy (the vet said that a combo operation/chemo is another scenario depending on the type of tumor). Will Kitty's hair fall out like Melissa Etheridge? If it's FIP - what will be the typical course of treatment they will use.. If I need to put her to sleep..what's the best way to go about it..Do it as quickly as possible? Let her have one more week to live? EEEK! David >Re: it was FIP, not FIV ! ! ! ! ! >Phil P. 24 Feb 2005 07:03 >[quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >David, FIP is caused by a mutated coronavirus. Feline coronaviruses >do not cause cancer. > If it's inoperable cancer tumor, then we'll use chemotherapy (the vet said > that a combo operation/chemo is another scenario depending on the type of > tumor). Will Kitty's hair fall out like Melissa Etheridge? No. Cats tolerate chemo much, much better than humans do. > If I need to put her to sleep..what's the best way to go about it..Do it as > quickly as possible? Let her have one more week to live? Depends upon her current quality of life. Cathy
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