Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / February 2005
taste...
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Joe Canuck - 21 Feb 2005 20:51 GMT Just brought another bag of Science Diet home and noticed this text "...great taste..." on the bag.
How are we to know it tastes great?
Has anyone here ever been so brave as to taste the stuff?
If so, did it taste great?
Do you think your cat will agree with your assessement of the taste?
I think this "...great taste..." rhetoric is designed to appeal to the humans buying the food.
LOL
kitkat - 21 Feb 2005 20:55 GMT > Just brought another bag of Science Diet home and noticed this text > "...great taste..." on the bag. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I think this "...great taste..." rhetoric is designed to appeal to the > humans buying the food. C'mon now!!! Obviously cats can READ the bag and all! Or are your cats ILLITERATE?!! ;)
Joe Canuck - 21 Feb 2005 21:45 GMT >> Just brought another bag of Science Diet home and noticed this text >> "...great taste..." on the bag. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > C'mon now!!! Obviously cats can READ the bag and all! Or are your cats > ILLITERATE?!! ;) My cat seems to be able to read me like a book, but still cannot read the book. :)
Mary - 21 Feb 2005 20:57 GMT > I think this "...great taste..." rhetoric is designed to appeal to the humans buying the food.
> LOL I agree, and I think it is intentional! After all, how many cats can read?! ;)
Justin L - 21 Feb 2005 21:08 GMT >Just brought another bag of Science Diet home and noticed this text >"...great taste..." on the bag. > >How are we to know it tastes great? to be sure, you would have to taste it.
>Has anyone here ever been so brave as to taste the stuff? No, I have honestly been thinking about trying some, I just haven't been hungry/brave/bored enough yet.
>If so, did it taste great? The Wellness canned food smells pretty good, so it might be tasty.
>Do you think your cat will agree with your assessement of the taste? If they eat it, it probably tastes ok to them...I know when mine hear the sound of a can being opened, they sure run for the kitchen in search of the source.
>I think this "...great taste..." rhetoric is designed to appeal to the >humans buying the food. I think you may be right.
Justin
Monique Y. Mudama - 21 Feb 2005 21:23 GMT > The Wellness canned food smells pretty good, so it might be tasty. No kidding! I've been tempted to dip a cracker in that stuff myself ...
ahem ...
> If they eat it, it probably tastes ok to them...I know when mine hear the > sound of a can being opened, they sure run for the kitchen in search of the > source. Oscar seems to prefer the strongest-smelling of the canned stuff. It seems odd to me, because she's never minded eating dry food, which doesn't have a strong smell at all.
 Signature monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully
pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
Steve G - 21 Feb 2005 21:36 GMT > > The Wellness canned food smells pretty good, so it might be tasty. > > No kidding! I've been tempted to dip a cracker in that stuff myself ... Yer all bloody weird. It smells like the foul scrapings from Satan's sausage, if you ask me (not that you did). SD smells relatively inoffensive to me, whereas Active Life and Spot's Stew smell fine - but they're basically human food in a tin. That's food for humans, not food consisting of humans. I think. I kind of like the smell of t/d - smells damn odd, sort of like crackers struggling with substance abuse, but I sort of like it.
I once tried a piece of Innova (?) dry. It was bland.
Anyway, it is possible to establish taste preferences in animals, so the 'tastes great' label might not be so wayward. (Well OK, it might be 'tastes better than other foods, but still tastes like shite').
Steve.
Joe Canuck - 21 Feb 2005 21:53 GMT >>>The Wellness canned food smells pretty good, so it might be tasty. >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Steve. I was going to get into a big discussion about this "great taste" issue with the person behind the counter at the pet store, but thought the better of it... perhaps next time. The poor girl might have thought I was completely nuts, not that she doesn't think that anyway. :)
After all, they have all the different varieties right there in the store... we could do a taste comparison test. I'll bring the crackers. Some of that canned cat food seems to have the same texture and consistency as pate. I could probadly serve it next Christmas to the relatives and get them to do a blind taste test. Hehehe...
...and... "great taste" compared to what??? Other cat food, human food, dog food, that stuff left in the bottom of the sink when the dishes are done???
Mary - 21 Feb 2005 22:07 GMT > > > The Wellness canned food smells pretty good, so it might be tasty. > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Yer all bloody weird. It smells like the foul scrapings from Satan's > sausage, if you ask me (not that you did). Run into the scrapings from Satan's sausage often, do you?
Steve G - 22 Feb 2005 00:20 GMT (...)
> Run into the scrapings from Satan's sausage often, do you? Yes, literally. I was out for a run in the woods just t'other day when lo! I found myself face first in the mud. I looked back, and what should I see but Satan with sausage held aloft. Bugger had tripped me up with his meaty stick. Again. Third time this week. I wish he was vegetarian - but then I suppose he'd just shred me with his celery instead.
Steve.
Monique Y. Mudama - 22 Feb 2005 00:31 GMT > Mary wrote: (...) >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Steve. Phew! Apparently "satan's sausage" has a much more innocuous meaning than I'd first, er, envisioned.
 Signature monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully
pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
Mary - 22 Feb 2005 00:45 GMT > > Mary wrote: (...) > >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Phew! Apparently "satan's sausage" has a much more innocuous meaning than I'd > first, er, envisioned. No it doesn't. :-)
Steve G - 22 Feb 2005 21:36 GMT (...)
> Phew! Apparently "satan's sausage" has a much more > innocuous meaning than I'd first, er, envisioned. Would you like some relish with that? S.
equalizer - 21 Feb 2005 21:42 GMT >Just brought another bag of Science Diet home and noticed this text >"...great taste..." on the bag. > >How are we to know it tastes great? I'm sure Steve Crane personally taste tests each new Science Diet product. Otherwise, that claim would just be so much Madison Avenue glitz.
>Has anyone here ever been so brave as to taste the stuff? It may come to that someday.
>If so, did it taste great? I agree that Wellness Canned smells so good I'm tempted to dig in.
>Do you think your cat will agree with your assessement of the taste? > >I think this "...great taste..." rhetoric is designed to appeal to the >humans buying the food. > >LOL Cathy Friedmann - 21 Feb 2005 22:25 GMT > Just brought another bag of Science Diet home and noticed this text > "...great taste..." on the bag. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Do you think your cat will agree with your assessement of the taste? Not necessarily (depends, after all - some cats love human food & some don't), but then I have to assume that the "great taste" is in light of a cat's idea of taste, not necessarily a human's...
> I think this "...great taste..." rhetoric is designed to appeal to the > humans buying the food. However, of course this is true.
Cathy
> LOL Mary - 21 Feb 2005 22:30 GMT > > Just brought another bag of Science Diet home and noticed this text > > "...great taste..." on the bag. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > don't), but then I have to assume that the "great taste" is in light of a > cat's idea of taste, not necessarily a human's... How would a human ever know that? Think about it.
Cathy Friedmann - 21 Feb 2005 22:30 GMT > > > Just brought another bag of Science Diet home and noticed this text > > > "...great taste..." on the bag. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > How would a human ever know that? Think about it. Know it, re: to a human, or to a cat? If one's cat like it, the cat's human would assume it tastes great to the cat. If the cat turns up its nose at it, then the human woud assume, "Yeah, right!, tastes great... not to my cat, it doesn't."
Cathy
Mary - 21 Feb 2005 23:52 GMT > > > > Just brought another bag of Science Diet home and noticed this text > > > > "...great taste..." on the bag. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Know it, re: to a human, or to a cat? You said "the great taste is in light of a cat's idea of taste... "
No human has any clue of what that is.
Cathy Friedmann - 21 Feb 2005 23:56 GMT > > > > > Just brought another bag of Science Diet home and noticed this text > > > > > "...great taste..." on the bag. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > You said "the great taste is in light of a cat's idea of taste... " Yeah, well.. I think it's pretty obvious that the cat food company doesn't expect the humans who are buying the food to think it tastes delicious! Just a marketing strategy.
> No human has any clue of what that is. As I explained: if one's cat gobbles it up, one has to _assume_ that it tastes gfreat to the cat, but if not, then...
Jeez, IMO this is a weird thing to debate/argue about!
Cathy
Mary - 22 Feb 2005 00:04 GMT > > > > > > Just brought another bag of Science Diet home and noticed this > text [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Jeez, IMO this is a weird thing to debate/argue about! You use the word "weird" as if that is a bad thing.
Meanwhile, just because the cat eats it does not mean it tastes great. You eat stuff you don't think tastes great every day. We have no idea of what things taste like to them, look like to them, or even smell like to them. Simple fact, no "IMO" about it.
Cathy Friedmann - 22 Feb 2005 00:02 GMT > > > > > > > Just brought another bag of Science Diet home and noticed this > > text [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > You use the word "weird" as if that is a bad thing. Weird idn't always bad, but in this case... how about silly?
> Meanwhile, just because the cat eats it does not mean it > tastes great. You eat stuff you don't think tastes great every day. > We have no idea of what things taste like to them, look like to > them, or even smell like to them. Simple fact, no > "IMO" about it. I'll stick w/ "IMO".
Cathy
Steve G - 22 Feb 2005 00:16 GMT (...)
> We have no idea of what things taste like to them, look like to > them, or even smell like to them. Simple fact, no > "IMO" about it. Well, not entirely. Given the structure of their physiology and responses to stimuli (sensory receptors, projections to brain, structure of brain, sensory thresholds, etc.) we can gain some idea of what they perceive. For example, we know that the cat cannot see fine detail (high spatial frequencies) as well as a human can, be they can perceive less fine detail (low spatial frequencies) better than us. A huge amount of work has taken place looking at how the cat's vision works (yes, that's lots of drilling holes in cat skulls and sticking electrodes into the grey matter, alas).
However, we'll probably never know what their perceptions 'mean' to them.
Steve.
Cathy Friedmann - 22 Feb 2005 00:28 GMT > (...) > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > detail (high spatial frequencies) as well as a human can, be they can > perceive less fine detail (low spatial frequencies) better than us. I've heard this, too, & personally fins that I doubt it. Because... how come my cats can see an itsy-bitsy insect, way, way up on a wall - from perhaps 10 - 15 feet away, that I can't notice till I get within 3 - 5 feet of it? Can't just be the motion thing, considering the teensiness factor...
Cathy
A
> huge amount of work has taken place looking at how the cat's vision > works (yes, that's lots of drilling holes in cat skulls and sticking [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Steve. Mary - 22 Feb 2005 00:44 GMT > > (...) > > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > perhaps 10 - 15 feet away, that I can't notice till I get within 3 - 5 feet > of it? Can't just be the motion thing, considering the teensiness factor... What a weird thing to discuss. :)
Steve G - 22 Feb 2005 21:33 GMT (...)
> > what they perceive. For example, we know that the cat cannot > > see fine detail (high spatial frequencies) as well as a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > that I can't notice till I get within 3 - 5 feet of it? > Can't just be the motion thing, considering the teensiness factor... It is counterintuitive, but the result's a done deal. There are endless papers on cat contrast sensitivity, all showing the same thing, basically that a cat's acuity is c.20/100 or so (e.g., http://www.animaleyecare.com/for.htm#Vision%20In%20Dogs,%20Horses,%20and%20Cats). Plus, in bright daylight, the cat's eye isn't working at its best. For example, the Tapetum Lucidum, the relective layer at the back of the eye, will tend to reduce acuity is well-lit situations.
So, how can a cat see a fly up on the wall?
Well, cats are much more sensitive than us to low spatial frequencies - such as low-contrast things near to them. A grey mouse against a grey wall, for example. Or, if it's close enough, a grey fly on a grey wall. As Campbell et al (1973; J Physiol 229: 719-731) said, '..cat vision, just like our vision, is quite sharp and clear but [that] it is different from ours in that it is attuned to seeing objects well at a much closer range.' Indoors, the fly up the wall probably isn't very far from the cat, and so might well fall into the range of sizes that are well detected, even if the cat cannot make out the hairs on the fly's kneecaps.
Also, it *can* be a motion thing - motion and form perception are basically different systems in the brain, and it is possible to be able to see something moving, but to not be able to see any detail in it (e.g., http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB/Proceedings/PR05000/PR00515.htm). In cats, IIRC, peripheral vision is more sensitive to motion than in humans, one main reason being that information from very large areas of the peripheral visual field is pooled in cats. However, humans are much better than cats at detecting motion in the centre of the visual field.
So, the cat probably 'sees' the fly in the periphery of vision, but if you asked said cat, he wouldn't be able to tell you whether it was a fly or a field of flying fish. Might also be that the cat sees the fly in peripheral vision, and then orients and tracks it to where it lands. At which point, the cat can see bugger all there (because the fly has landed and is still), but being a cat, remains staring at where the fly presumably is. The human then sees the cat apparently staring right at a tiny fly. Human then thinks 'mazin, the eyesight on that cat', whereas the cat is probably thinking 'cannot see a bloody thing, except that damn wall'.
Incidentally, the Lynx is no better than the domestic cat in terms of acuity. The Falcon has awesome ability to see fine detail at a distance though (Uhlrich et al., 1981; Behav Brain Res 2: 291-299).
Another other thing - none of this says the cat's vision is 'blurred', just that it does not see very fine detail at all; it's simply missing.
Steve.
Mary - 22 Feb 2005 00:42 GMT > (...) > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > However, we'll probably never know what their perceptions 'mean' to > them. Agreed. We can have "some idea" but we can never know.
Monique Y. Mudama - 22 Feb 2005 00:18 GMT > Meanwhile, just because the cat eats it does not mean it tastes great. You > eat stuff you don't think tastes great every day. We have no idea of what > things taste like to them, look like to them, or even smell like to them. > Simple fact, no "IMO" about it. Mostly I eat stuff that tastes great to me. Maybe that's the problem =P
 Signature monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully
pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
kitkat - 22 Feb 2005 00:26 GMT >>Meanwhile, just because the cat eats it does not mean it tastes great. You >>eat stuff you don't think tastes great every day. We have no idea of what >>things taste like to them, look like to them, or even smell like to them. >>Simple fact, no "IMO" about it. > > Mostly I eat stuff that tastes great to me. Maybe that's the problem =P That is *definitely* my problem. 100%
Cathy Friedmann - 22 Feb 2005 00:29 GMT > >>Meanwhile, just because the cat eats it does not mean it tastes great. You > >>eat stuff you don't think tastes great every day. We have no idea of what [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > That is *definitely* my problem. 100% Yeah, I know lima beans are good for me, but somehow they never even make it into my grocery cart, much less into my mouth!
Cathy
Mary - 22 Feb 2005 00:43 GMT > > Meanwhile, just because the cat eats it does not mean it tastes great. You > > eat stuff you don't think tastes great every day. We have no idea of what > > things taste like to them, look like to them, or even smell like to them. > > Simple fact, no "IMO" about it. > > Mostly I eat stuff that tastes great to me. Maybe that's the problem =P It sure is a good idea to keep the really great tasting stuff out of the house if there is a reason you don't want to eat much!
Monique Y. Mudama - 22 Feb 2005 00:52 GMT > It sure is a good idea to keep the really great tasting stuff out of the > house if there is a reason you don't want to eat much! I've actually found there's a lot of great-tasting stuff that is also good for me. The trouble is that it requires shopping for fresh foods and then preparing said foods. It's tough for me to find the time. When I do feel I have the time, I tend to make bunches of batches and freeze them up for later ...
Oh dear god.
I just realized that, yes, I have become my mother.
 Signature monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully
pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
Mary - 22 Feb 2005 01:05 GMT > > It sure is a good idea to keep the really great tasting stuff out of the > > house if there is a reason you don't want to eat much! [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I just realized that, yes, I have become my mother. LOL!! I know what you mean. But it is very smart to find the heathy things we actually like and then keep them around. You have to grow up one day. Corn chips and salsa for the vegetables, instead of potato chips and cookies was my husband's First Grand Concession years ago. Triscuit and other high-fiber crackers instead of refined. And, God help us, now we are actually trained to snack on grapes and pears, red peppers and cucumbers. Would these things have any chance against a chocolate cake? Hell no! So I keep the cake out of the house.
As for meals, I love cooking home made soups and stews and simple broiled meats and fish with vegetables. And beans really are our friends. :) In a manner of speaking.
Joe Canuck - 22 Feb 2005 00:34 GMT >>>>>>>Just brought another bag of Science Diet home and noticed this >> [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > Meanwhile, just because the cat eats it does not mean it > tastes great. You eat stuff you don't think tastes great every day. I don't go out of my way to eat bad tasting food, on the other hand I will go out of my way to eat great tasting food.
Hence the reason for "great taste" being plastered on the bag, an appeal to the human to be good to our pet.
> We have no idea of what things taste like to them, look like to > them, or even smell like to them. Simple fact, no > "IMO" about it. Mary - 22 Feb 2005 00:41 GMT "Joe Canuck" <Joe.Canuck@removethis-gmail.com> wrote >
> I don't go out of my way to eat bad tasting food, on the other hand I > will go out of my way to eat great tasting food. > > Hence the reason for "great taste" being plastered on the bag, an appeal > to the human to be good to our pet. And I bet it works, too, though we have no idea what tastes great to them.
Monique Y. Mudama - 22 Feb 2005 00:50 GMT > And I bet it works, too, though we have no idea what tastes great to them. Well, based on Oscar's reaction to various foods, I can only guess that Chicken & Lobster Wellness tastes awful, while Turkey & Salmon Wellness (which I noticed has whitefish before salmon in the ingredients list; odd) is apparently the best tasting food she's ever eaten. Possibly even better than tuna.
 Signature monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully
pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
hamandcheese@betweentheknees.com - 21 Feb 2005 22:31 GMT >I think this "...great taste..." rhetoric is designed to appeal to the >humans buying the food. While I'm sure you are being a little tongue in cheek about this, I would like to add that of course it is meant to appeal to you, just like the ingredients were put on the label for *you* to read.
-mhd
Joe Canuck - 21 Feb 2005 23:54 GMT >>I think this "...great taste..." rhetoric is designed to appeal to the >>humans buying the food. > > While I'm sure you are being a little tongue in cheek about this, Hehe, yes pretty much.
> I > would like to add that of course it is meant to appeal to you, just > like the ingredients were put on the label for *you* to read. > > -mhd I see the same thing on human food labels in the grocery store... it goes something like this... "great taste". Hehehe...
Unfortunately it doesn't say "Helps your human stay healthy and live long".
Phil P. - 21 Feb 2005 23:17 GMT > Just brought another bag of Science Diet home and noticed this text > "...great taste..." on the bag. > > How are we to know it tastes great? Actually, I'd be more inclined to buy a cat food with a label that said "Smells Like sh.t... Tastes like sh.t, too!" Cats clean their butts with their tongues, so they apparently they don't think sh.t tastes that bad! If they did, they'd use their paws instead! LOL!
Phil
Joe Canuck - 22 Feb 2005 00:12 GMT >>Just brought another bag of Science Diet home and noticed this text >>"...great taste..." on the bag. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Phil Hmm, perhaps an experiment is in order.
Remove fresh droppings from the litter box, remove all traces of litter and place in the food dish... observe what happens over the next few hours. ;)
Egads! The cat may start pooping in the food dish.
I'm not certain my cat likes the taste of sh.t. I've noticed after she has cleaned herself up that she has this look that appears to be one of utter disgust on her face.
I suspect they may rely more on their sense of smell than taste and thus the never ending "smell test" when approaching a bowl of food... even if they have just fed 5 minutes ago.
It certain works every time I open a bottle of beer. My cat perks right up and seems to want some. I place the bottle cap on the floor and she starts licking it madly... if I pour a little into the bottle cap she will lap it all up.
Takes after her human. ;)
Phil P. - 22 Feb 2005 00:49 GMT > I suspect they may rely more on their sense of smell than taste and thus > the never ending "smell test" when approaching a bowl of food... That's absolutely true. Cats only have about 500 taste buds, humans have
>9000, but the cat's olfactory mucosa is actually larger than a human's and its has more cells and nerve endings - so their sense of smell is 5 to 20 times more sensitive than ours . Cats can smell very faint odors that we can't but they can't distinguish subtle differences in taste like we can.
Phil
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