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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / February 2005Elvis Update :(
I just got back from my vet & thankfully, my "real" vet was there but it's really bad news. He could feel tumors on his kidney and said by the bloodwork he appears to be in kidney failure. He kept him to put him on IV's and take xrays, etc. He's lost 1.3 lbs. in only 9 days. I can go visit tomorrow because they have hours from 8-12. I know there's nothing they can do for him if that's the case. Off topic, but I have so many other bad things going on in my life now that this is just going to put me over the edge. My heart feels like it was ripped out. He is the sweetest cat. Why does this sh.t have to happen? I've never been so sad in my life. I can't stop crying. Mr. Wiz, where are you? > I just got back from my vet & thankfully, my "real" vet was there but it's > really bad news. <snip> I'm so sorry to hear it. :( Give him lots of lovin' and take as best of care as him as you can. hugs, -L. > I just got back from my vet & thankfully, my "real" vet was there but it's > really bad news. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > happen? I've never been so sad in my life. I can't stop crying. > Mr. Wiz, where are you? Sorry to hear this, it really stinks. You will eventually get through it though, even though it seems like you won't. Stay strong. Justin > I just got back from my vet & thankfully, my "real" vet was there but it's > really bad news. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > happen? I've never been so sad in my life. I can't stop crying. > Mr. Wiz, where are you? Hodge is purring for you and Elvis.  Signaturehttp://www.slywy.com/pages/hodge.html > > I just got back from my vet & thankfully, my "real" vet was there but it's > > really bad news. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > happen? I've never been so sad in my life. I can't stop crying. > > Mr. Wiz, where are you? Poor Elvis. I had a feeling Tapazole was not the problem. I'm so sorry you have to go through this. | I'm | so sorry you have to go through this. If you wouldn't of been such a bitch.. you wouldn't have a need to apologize, to anyone. My vet today showed me the report showing his T4 was actually LOW! No wonder he felt worse on the tapazole. I think my vet was pissed & the other vet will hear about it. He said, OMG, stop giving him the tapazole!!! My other cat, Randi, is spooked now because I came back WITHOUT Elvis! He always sees him get stuck in the carrier, whisked away & comes back in a couple hours. Now Randi won't let me anywhere near him! lol Thank you for your thoughts. > > > I just got back from my vet & thankfully, my "real" vet was there but > it's [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Poor Elvis. I had a feeling Tapazole was not the problem. I'm > so sorry you have to go through this. > I just got back from my vet & thankfully, my "real" vet was there but it's > really bad news. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > happen? I've never been so sad in my life. I can't stop crying. > Mr. Wiz, where are you? Oh my. I am SOOOOoo sorry to hear this. I have no answers to why but can only say my heart goes out to you threefold. >>I just got back from my vet & thankfully, my "real" vet was there but it's >>really bad news. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >>happen? I've never been so sad in my life. I can't stop crying. >>Mr. Wiz, where are you? I'm no Mr. Wiz, but I still send you purrs hugs and love! Hang in there. Poor Elvis. ((((ELVIS)))) As I am learning now for the first time, dealing with a sick kitty is TOUGH STUFF!!!! xoxoxox, Pam, Luna and Jasper > I just got back from my vet & thankfully, my "real" vet was there but it's > really bad news. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > happen? I've never been so sad in my life. I can't stop crying. > Mr. Wiz, where are you? **I am so sorry to hear this, Carol. I know what you are going through, believe me! My 19 1/2 year old boy, Blue, passed away almost exactly 3 months ago and my heart is still torn in two. I, also, experienced several other tragedies that came at the exact same time :-(. Anyway, my heart goes out to you and Elvis. And heck, who knows, you might have him for several months yet to come, and maybe even longer :-)! Lets hope so! In the meantime, give him whatever he *will* eat, such as, chicken breast, oven roasted turkey and/or ham, Whatever he will eat. He needs his strength. You might also try the Whiskas brand "cat milk" which my Blue found tasty, it has some good nutritional supplements in it. Please keep us posted. ML >I just got back from my vet & thankfully, my "real" vet was there but it's >really bad news. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >happen? I've never been so sad in my life. I can't stop crying. >Mr. Wiz, where are you? I'm sorry for what you're going through. I hope everything works out, one way or another. Good luck. > I just got back from my vet & thankfully, my "real" vet was there but it's > really bad news. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > happen? I've never been so sad in my life. I can't stop crying. > Mr. Wiz, where are you? That's awful! I'm so sorry to hear this! SignatureJean B. The vet just told me it is definitely kidney tumors & nothing can be done. He's comfortable now because he's on IV fluids. Anybody know anything about cat kidney specialists? I don't know why they can't operate but I'll ask him tomorrow when I go visit Elvis. He said if he came home Monday, he guesses he'd live another week! I'm so heartbroken I don't know what to do. I can't stand this. > > I just got back from my vet & thankfully, my "real" vet was there but it's > > really bad news. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > > That's awful! I'm so sorry to hear this! > The vet just told me it is definitely kidney tumors & nothing can be done. > He's comfortable now [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > He said if he came home Monday, he guesses he'd live another week! > I'm so heartbroken I don't know what to do. I can't stand this. Ah, god, I am so very sorry. It is so hard to lose a loved one. I've been looking online and they DO surgery for kidney tumors.... if he doesn't want to try surgery I'm taking him to the U of Pennsylvania. They even do the transplants. (for $7,000). I'm literally going through my house seeing what things I could sell. I would do anything to save my little boy. > The vet just told me it is definitely kidney tumors & nothing can be done. > He's comfortable now [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > > > > That's awful! I'm so sorry to hear this! I'm so very sorry to hear about what's happening to Elvis. I also just lost my kitty because of lung cancer and at that time, I also contemplated giving her whatever treatment she needed to "live longer", but then I realized that her quality of life may be very poor and the her life may not be lengthened despite the best and most aggressive treatment. My point is that surgery and kidney transplant may seem like a good idea now because you want to give Elvis as much as you can to save his life, but before you start making phone calls, travel arrangements, etc. to a university center, please consider what kind of life Elvis may have POST transplant (e.g. issues of organ rejection and immunosuppresant therapy which often renders them more susceptible to infections). If his other kidney is functioning, then maybe removing one kidney sounds reasonable (but this sounds unlikely if his creatinine and BUN are both elevated, indicating that both kidneys are failing). I don't know about dialysis for cats, but that also just sounds terrible for any cat to go through. In any case, I'm sending lots of purrs and best wishes to you and Elvis! I know what you mean - I just want to explore any options before I do something irreversible. They can't live on one kidney like people can; I already asked the vet about that. My mom had her kidney removed (at age 82!) last year for kidney cancer. > I'm so very sorry to hear about what's happening to Elvis. I also just > lost my kitty because of lung cancer and at that time, I also [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > sounds terrible for any cat to go through. In any case, I'm sending > lots of purrs and best wishes to you and Elvis! >They can't live on one kidney like people can; I already >asked the >vet about that. Yes they can. Cats are used as donors but you have to agree to adopt the donor as well. -mhd > I know what you mean - I just want to explore any options before I do > something > irreversible. They can't live on one kidney like people can; I already > asked the > vet about that. Sure they can! You're required to adopt the donor cat. Phil I mean they can't take one kidney out and have the cat just live on one; like my mother is. > > I know what you mean - I just want to explore any options before I do > > something [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Phil OMG! That was a stupid statement. DUH! You can see how fuzzy I'm thinking today! So they can do nephrectomies on a cat and they survive on the one kidney.... if it's working well enough? > I mean they can't take one kidney out and have the cat just live on one; > like my mother is. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > > > Phil > OMG! That was a stupid statement. DUH! You can see how fuzzy I'm thinking > today! Actually you're doing remarkably well for the tremendous stress you're under! > So they can do nephrectomies on a cat and they survive on the one kidney.... > if it's working well enough? Yes. In fact *indivudual* as well as total kidney function can be measured with Planar Renal Scintigraphy (a/k/a quantitative renal scintigraphy) *nonivasively* in awake cats. With PRS, the surgeon knows which kidney should be removed from the recipient cat and if the donor cat's kidney will function well enough alone. I have a problem with kidney transplants because the donor cat is not a voluntary donor. In essense, he's paying for a home with his kidney without his consent. I also have reservations because removing a kidney would shorten the donor's life in the event he developed CRF or even ARF. I would do anything to save my cats' lives but not at the expense of another cat's life. I couldn't live with that. But that's me. Best of luck with whatever you decide. Phil > > I mean they can't take one kidney out and have the cat just live on one; > > like my mother is. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > > > > > Phil -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- From: "ElvisRocks" <elvisrocks1@comcast.net> >I've been looking online and they DO surgery for kidney tumors.... >if he doesn't want to try surgery I'm taking him to the U of Pennsylvania. >They even do the transplants. (for $7,000). I'm literally going through >my house seeing what things I could sell. I would do anything to save my >little boy. I just saw this post after I sent my first reply. I checked out the the U of Pennsylvania site. YES!! This is exactly the place that you should be taking Elvis. They're right there on the cutting edge of treatment and have all the equipment, labs, and staff to give Elvis the best care possible. I think, tomorrow, you should get Elvis and bring him right up to the emergency room. Ask your vet if he could call them ahead of time, but if he won't, just go. And, again, hang in there! Things may not be nearly as bad as they seem and you seem to be going in the right direction. Best wishes, Mr Wizard >I've been looking online and they DO surgery for kidney tumors.... >if he doesn't want to try surgery I'm taking him to the U of Pennsylvania. >They even do the transplants. (for $7,000). I'm literally going through >my house seeing what things I could sell. I would do anything to save my >little boy. I just saw a news item on TV last week an article on a new procedure for treating liver and kidney tumors. It involve taking a tiny probe and *slowly* heating just the tumor up and it vaporized the insides of the tumor enough to cause it to shrink and usually die off. -mhd In Cats??? > >I've been looking online and they DO surgery for kidney tumors.... > >if he doesn't want to try surgery I'm taking him to the U of Pennsylvania. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > -mhd >In Cats??? >> >I've been looking online and they DO surgery for kidney tumors.... >> >if he doesn't want to try surgery I'm taking him to the U of [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> >> -mhd The article was obviously about humans but medical techniques are not limited to them. -mhd -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- From: "ElvisRocks" <elvisrocks1@comcast.net> >They can't live on one kidney like people can; I already >asked the >vet about that. If that's what the vet's telling you then please grab Elvis and RUN don't walk to the nearest exit. If that's what he's saying, he's either out of touch with reality or a liar. Even I know that's not true! > The vet just told me it is definitely kidney tumors & nothing can be done. Lumpy kidneys is usually a sign of advanced polycystic kidney disease (PKD) - which is an inheritable disease (especially in Persians) - rather than tumors. If he does have PKD, you wouldn't have known because most PKD cats are usually clinically normal while the cysts are growing. There's nothing you could have done to prevent it. Owners usually don't become aware of it until the cysts grow large enough to interfere with renal function. Didn't the first vet even palpitate his kidneys? > He's comfortable now > because he's on IV fluids. > Anybody know anything about cat kidney specialists? Go to http://www.acvim.org/Kittleson/search.htm and do a search for an internal medicine Diplomate/Specialist in your area. American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine Diplomates are about the best there is. If you can't find an ACVIM specialist in your area, my second choice would be an ABVP Diplomate/Feline Specialist (American Board of Veterinary Practitioners). http://www.abvp.com/finddiplomate.aspx Do you live within range of veterinary university hospital? I don't know why they > can't operate but > I'll ask him tomorrow when I go visit Elvis. > He said if he came home Monday, he guesses he'd live another week! I knew a vet who gave a cat 2 weeks to live - about 7 months ago-- as of last month the cat is still here. > I'm so heartbroken I don't know what to do. I can't stand this. I don't know else to say except I'm sorry and try to keep the faith. Phil > > > I just got back from my vet & thankfully, my "real" vet was there but > it's [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > > > > That's awful! I'm so sorry to hear this! Yes, the first vet palpitated his kidneys - in the fall he was diagnosed with the kidney infection. BUT they didn't do an xray then. I'm 15 min. away from the University of Pennsylvania, which is a wonderful veterinary hospital. They even do the transplants. > > The vet just told me it is definitely kidney tumors & nothing can be done. > [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > > > > > > > That's awful! I'm so sorry to hear this! > Yes, the first vet palpitated his kidneys - in the fall he was diagnosed > with the kidney infection. > BUT they didn't do an xray then. A kidney infection (bacterial nephritis) can be caused by cysts. The original vet should have looked for a cause because the cat has a few very strong host defense mechanisms that make kidney infections uncommon in cats. > I'm 15 min. away from the University of Pennsylvania, which is a wonderful > veterinary hospital. It sure is. One of our vets is a graduate of U of Penn - and he's damn good! > They even do the transplants. If you go that route, you'll also have to adopt the donor cat and Elvis will require immunosupressive drugs for life so his immune system doesn't attack the new kidney. You might want to look into that. Also his condition must be strong enough to undergo the surgery. I have very mixed feelings about kidney transplants for ethical reasons regarding the donor cat. But I don't really know for sure what my decision would be if I was actually faced with the decision for one of my cats. But I surely wouldn't condemn anyone who opted for transplant. The pros - very, very, strong pros - of kidney transplants is *two* lives are saved: the owned cat and the donor cat. I would get him into U of P a.s.a.p. for an evaluation. Keep the faith. Phil > > > The vet just told me it is definitely kidney tumors & nothing can be > done. [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > > > > > > > > > That's awful! I'm so sorry to hear this! I went to visit Elvis this a.m. He looked better from being on the Sub-Q fluids - they said he did eat yesterday. I brought him fancy feast and he started eating right away...he was SOOOOOOOOOO happy to see his mommy. I know the dogs barking are scaring him. Anyway, the vet showed me the xrays of his kidneys & explained that the left one is very large and has tumors on the outside of it and that his kidney function numbers aren't great but he is NOT in renal failure but that in the long run with no treatment he won't do well, obviously. So I asked about the surgery next and he said he can do the IVP dye test to see how well the right kidney is functioning. I'm kind of familiar with this stuff because that's the same stuff my mother went through last year before they took out her cancerous kidney. He said he then can do a nephrectomy or try to remove the tumors and I said that I want him to do whatever it takes. He told me flat out that the other vet made a mistake last week telling me to put him on tapazole and telling me his kidney functions were perfectly normal. He apologized and said he would "set him straight" - it was obvious he was furious about it. I have been a client for almost 30 years and he's never steered me wrong; but I will see what he says and then see about taking Elvis to U of P tomorrow. Elvis is doing well now since he's got the fluids in him. When I went back to see him again and hold him, he didn't look as good as when I first went in; but I imagine he's exhausted and he is a sick kitty. I guess the glimmer of hope is making me feel a little better right now. But not much. I miss him so much. Carol :( >> The vet just told me it is definitely kidney tumors & nothing can be >> done. [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] >> > > >> > That's awful! I'm so sorry to hear this! Oh, the vet is also running other kidney bloodwork today - BUN, creatine, etc. >I went to visit Elvis this a.m. He looked better from being on the Sub-Q >fluids - [quoted text clipped - 106 lines] >>> > > >>> > That's awful! I'm so sorry to hear this! >I went to visit Elvis this a.m. He looked better from being on the Sub-Q >fluids - > they said he did eat yesterday. I brought him fancy feast and he started > eating right > away...he was SOOOOOOOOOO happy to see his mommy. I know how you are feeling. Thru several dogs and now our cat, I know the feeling you get when things aren't right or you even think there may be something wrong. Sometimes things have a way of working out better than expected, I hope this will be your case. In any case, hang in there. SignaturePaul O. My sig line is my disclaimer to any advice given Absolutely clueless when it comes to cats Learning more every day, but still clueless oplholik@hotmail.com > I went to visit Elvis this a.m. He looked better from being on the Sub-Q > fluids - [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > now. > But not much. I miss him so much. Carol :( I'd be nervous about doing an IVP in a cat, in fact I wouldn't risk it. What is it going to change in your treatment plan? http://www.felinecrf.org/diagnosis.htm#IVP I think it would be a good idea to go to Penn, but please understand that a kidney transplant is just another kind of treatment, it's not a cure. It's also a pretty risky procedure in itself - around 20-25% of cats do not even survive the surgery or the few days following it, though I believe Penn has better stats. The average survival period for a cat following a transplant is around 18 months. Many cats with CRF survive that anyway with far less invasive care. In any event, you don't yet know what you are actually dealing with. Transplants are normally performed on cats with renal failure, not cancer. In fact, looking at Penn's own webpage, I note they state that the presence of neoplasia (tumours) would exclude a cat from a transplant: http://www.vet.upenn.edu/departments/csp/surgery/programs/ I suggest you call Penn and ask them whether you would be better off seeing a nephrologist or an oncologist. I also suggest you join the CRF Support List and The Feline Lymphoma list where you can obtain more information on both renal failure and kidney cancer: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline-CRF-Support/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/feline_lymphoma/ HTH Helen > I went to visit Elvis this a.m. He looked better from being on the Sub-Q > fluids - [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > So I asked about the surgery next and he said he can do the IVP dye test > to see how well the right kidney is functioning. I'd really think about the IVP - it carries some serious risk factors. Planar Renal Scintigraphy (a/k/a quantitative renal scintigraphy) is a much safer and more accurate test for measuring indivudual and total kidney function. PRS would let you know if his other kidney is functioning well enough to carry the load for both kidneys. I'm kind of familiar with > this > stuff because that's the same stuff my mother went through last year before > they took out her cancerous kidney. He said he then can do a nephrectomy > or try to remove the tumors and I said that I want him to do whatever > it takes. How does he know for sure their tumors and not cysts without biopsy or at least FNA? He told me flat out that the other vet made a mistake last week > telling me to put him on tapazole and telling me his kidney functions were > perfectly normal. That's what threw me off and why I didn't consider renal possibilities. He apologized and said he would "set him straight" - it > was > obvious he was furious about it. I'd set him straight alright -- straight out the door! I have been a client for almost 30 years > and > he's never steered me wrong; but I will see what he says and then see about [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > now. > But not much. I miss him so much. Carol :( Never underestimate the indomitable spirit of the cat or their unfanthomable resiliency! Keep the faith! Elvis needs to keep a clear head right now. Phil > >> The vet just told me it is definitely kidney tumors & nothing can be > >> done. [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > >> > > > >> > That's awful! I'm so sorry to hear this! Oh jeez, now I'm a wreck again! >> I went to visit Elvis this a.m. He looked better from being on the >> Sub-Q [quoted text clipped - 151 lines] >> >> > > >> >> > That's awful! I'm so sorry to hear this! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- From: "ElvisRocks" <elvisrocks1@comcast.net> >Anyway, the vet showed me the xrays of his kidneys & >explained [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >in >the long run with no treatment he won't do well, obviously. Phil P. may correct me on this, but looking through the "Cornell Book of Cats" there's a section on "Kidney Subcapsular Cysts" that sounds an awful lot like what the vet is describing. - From the book: "A subcapsular cyst develops when the capsule (covering membrane) of the kidney is separated from the kidney and distended by fluid accumulating under the capsule. However, subcapsular cysts are rare in cats. If, in elderly cats with chronic interstitial nephritis, both kidneys are involved, then no treatment is possible. In cats of any age traumatic injury can give rise to a cyst usually involving only one kidney. Such a cyst may be handled surgically by drainage and removal of the cyst wall" Interstitial nephritis tends to reduce the size of the kidney which indicates to me that I.n. is not a major problem with the affected kidney. Polycystic kidneys are described as "multiple cysts replacing normal tissue". This, to me, would indicate that you would expect to see cysts on the inside of the kidney and not just the surface. As far as I can tell, PKD tends to affect both kidneys. I may be way off the mark, here. But it brings up a question. Could Elvis have possible received some type of kidney injury to provoke some cysts? A fall, an accidental kick, tripping over a cat doing the "leg dance", etc. Just a thought. But I'll throw it out and see what flaws Phil P. and others may find in my logic or information. And again, My best wishes for Elvis' successful treatment and recovery. I'm sorry about this news. Cathy > The vet just told me it is definitely kidney tumors & nothing can be done. > He's comfortable now [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > He said if he came home Monday, he guesses he'd live another week! > I'm so heartbroken I don't know what to do. I can't stand this. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- From: "ElvisRocks" <elvisrocks1@comcast.net> >The vet just told me it is definitely kidney tumors & nothing can be done. >He's comfortable now [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >He said if he came home Monday, he guesses he'd live another week! >I'm so heartbroken I don't know what to do. I can't stand this. Well, Carol, I'm really sorry to hear this. Things must be looking awfully bleak, at the moment. I can certainly sympathize with what you're going through, right now. I know how much you love Elvis and I know how I would feel after getting news like that. And I have to admit, I'm pretty upset about it, myself. He's getting the fluids, and that will help flush out the toxins that are making him feel bad. That's a good start. It sounds like you're not ready to give up on Elvis, yet. That's good! I wouldn't be, either. I think you need to find the best equipped, and most competently staffed, facility that is available in your area and get Elvis there as soon as possible. We're lucky to have a top level MSPCA hospital within an hour's drive of here, but I would have taken Fission and Ebony to the other end of the state, and beyond, if that would have gotten them the care that they needed. Do you know of any top level facilities in your area? Could you find out from your Vet? Medical care for cats is a hundred times better, now, than it was just 10 years ago. You just need to find the right place. He's still got an appetite, and that's half the battle. But the other half of the battle is in your hands. And don't forget that, although the vet is different, this is the same office that put Elvis on the Tapazole. The diagnosis and the "he'd live another week" may not be any more accurate than the diagnosis that put him on the Tapazole. Hang in there....make some phone calls....and do the best that you can for Elvis. With a little luck you might be able to get him to a better equipped facility, tomorrow, where there's a better chance of treating his problem. We're all a lot tougher than we think we are, when we have to be! I'll say a prayer for both of you. Best wishes, Mr Wizard
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