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Help - cat keeps licking her back

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TJ - 16 Feb 2005 21:26 GMT
One of the neighbourhood cats has adopted me after I
fed her so I guess I'm responsible for her now.

She keeps licking her back about 3 inches down from
her shoulder blades - dead centre of her spine.

It's getting a bit red, sore looking and bald there.
It heals up quickly then she starts licking it until it is
sore again. What the heck is up with this crazy feline.

TJ
Cathy Friedmann - 17 Feb 2005 21:47 GMT
As a complete aside: are you TJ of "TJ & the Dust"?

Cathy

> One of the neighbourhood cats has adopted me after I
> fed her so I guess I'm responsible for her now.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> TJ
TJ - 16 Feb 2005 21:54 GMT
> As a complete aside: are you TJ of "TJ & the Dust"?
>
> Cathy

You know,  it's funny you should ask me that because, er, no... I'm not.

TJ


Cathy Friedmann - 17 Feb 2005 21:54 GMT
> > As a complete aside: are you TJ of "TJ & the Dust"?
> >
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> TJ

Okay, thanks, anyway. ;-)

(I used to know of a poster named TJ, who had a HUGE cat named Dusty...)

Cathy
raenee - 18 Feb 2005 18:28 GMT
My grandma's cat is about the same, but he does that to his shoulders.
She took him to the vet and the vet gave him some pills to take. That
seemed to do the trick, but the pills were too expensive, and so she
puts a cone on him whenever he tries to lick himself...
grasshopper - 16 Sep 2005 20:30 GMT
raenee Wrote:
> My grandma's cat is about the same, but he does that to his shoulders.
> She took him to the vet and the vet gave him some pills to take. That
> seemed to do the trick, but the pills were too expensive, and so she
> puts a cone on him whenever he tries to lick himself...

PLEASE TELL ME WHAT SHE TAKES TO HELP THE LICKING.  I just posted u
that my cat is licking her stomach and she won't stop.  We've had th
cone on for 3 months and I wish we could figure out why.  We've take
her to the doctor a few times and they don't know why.  PLEASE HELP
DON"T CARE ABOUT THE COST OF THE PILLS I JUST WANT MY LILLY TO BE OK

--
grasshopper
jmc - 17 Sep 2005 09:05 GMT
Suddenly, without warning, grasshopper exclaimed (16-Sep-05 8:30 PM):
> raenee Wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> her to the doctor a few times and they don't know why.  PLEASE HELP I
> DON"T CARE ABOUT THE COST OF THE PILLS I JUST WANT MY LILLY TO BE OK!

Couple of ideas to try: Try a different vet.  Try a complimentary
medicine vet.  Try a pet behaviorist.  Try Feliway.

Something's obviously going on there.  My guess is it's either allergic
(have antihistamines been tried?  Change of diet?  Change of shampoo if
she's washed frequently?) or, more likely, psycological.  Try Feliway,
it might help if her problem's mental.  Take a close look at any
stressors in her life, see what you can do to fix them.  Another cat who
doesn't get along with the licker?  A dog?  Alone most of the day? A
child who won't leave her alone?  Not enough attention - being ignored?
 If you yell at her to stop licking, it'd just make the problem worse.

That's what comes to mind off the top of my head.  Good luck!

jmc
grasshopper - 19 Sep 2005 14:17 GMT
PLEASE TELL ME WHAT SHE TAKES TO HELP THE LICKING.  I just posted up
that my cat is licking her stomach and she won't stop.  We've had the
cone on for 3 months and I wish we could figure out why.  We've taken
her to the doctor a few times and they don't know why.  PLEASE HELP I
DON"T CARE ABOUT THE COST OF THE PILLS I JUST WANT MY LILLY TO BE OK!

[/i][/color]
Couple of ideas to try: Try a different vet.  Try a complimentary
medicine vet.  Try a pet behaviorist.  Try Feliway.

Something's obviously going on there.  My guess is it's eithe
allergic
(have antihistamines been tried?  Change of diet?  Change of shampo
if
she's washed frequently?) or, more likely, psycological.  Try Feliway,
it might help if her problem's mental.  Take a close look at any
stressors in her life, see what you can do to fix them.  Another ca
who
doesn't get along with the licker?  A dog?  Alone most of the day? A
child who won't leave her alone?  Not enough attention - bein
ignored?
If you yell at her to stop licking, it'd just make the problem worse.

That's what comes to mind off the top of my head.  Good luck!

jmc

----->>Thanks for your help..here's an update..
We took her to the vet on Friday and the Vet feels it's mental..state
his mother's cat is an exact replica..and does the same thing.

A few things are going on in Lilly's life:

1) She lives with an aggressive sister who hates her for some reason.
This cat is miserable.  Lilly tried to be her friend and play with he
but Willow will growl and hiss, and wants nothing to do with her.  Ever
time Willow passes Lilly she hisses.  Little bitch.  We are in th
process of finding Willow another home...or putting her down as the Ve
suggested.  Willow is aggressive as well towards Lilly and humans
therefore she's a danger..she needs a home with no other animals or a
the vet stated put her down.  WE feel this is 95% of the problem...Willo
that is.    

2) Lilly is the sweetest cat, she is such a lover, and loves being wit
us.  I don't believe she suffers from separation anxiety, because she'
calm and collected when we leave.  If we go away on a trip, she get
upset and acts strangely when we pull out the suitcase..but that'
different.  The licking is strange because it happens all hours of th
day..she will lick during the day while were not home and in the middl
of the night while we are sleeping and she is as well (until sh
licks)..I thought it was an itch due to the strange times she licks bu
she just received a steroidal shot and it's not helping.   I'm leanin
towards metal.  

She went from 1/2 pill a day.. to..1/2 pill in the morning, 1/2 at nigh
of Elivil. We just upped her dose on Friday.  I'll discuss Feliway wit
the vet.

I feel if we remove the Willow (mean cat), continue the medication an
try to remove the stressors in her life..hopefully she will come around.
The doctor mentioned Valium for her..but wants to try the higher dose o
Elivil first.  I just worried about her organs with this medicine.  She'
an indoor cat and yesterday we let her outside to play in the backyard.
We took her cone off and she chased butterflies bugs and bathed in th
sun...didn't lick for 45 minutes..untill she started cleaning herself.
She seemed happy.  I think she's bored as well..so we need to up th
excitement...not sure how??  

As far as allergies..I haven't ruled that out and were going to start he
on either Wellness or Enovia cat food..which has less preservatives an
they have a meatless flavor.  We are going try this this week. Anothe
thing is her cat litter box....not sure if this has anything to do wit
it but we had a normal cat litter box and switched to th
littermaid...(mechanical litterbox).
SO yesterday I switched her back to the normal litter box with norma
litter and I'll see if that helps.  I just want to help her and I can't
and don't know how.  It's so frustrating!
Dav

--
grasshopper
Topaz - 19 Sep 2005 20:36 GMT
> ----->>Thanks for your help..here's an update..
> We took her to the vet on Friday and the Vet feels it's mental..stated
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> the vet stated put her down.  WE feel this is 95% of the problem...Willow
> that is.

Did you raise both kittens? Why do you think Willow is so aggressive?
It does sound like Lilly's sister is the source of her anxiety but I am
shocked that the vet would suggest having Willow euthanized "just
like that." Has the vet seen Willow, and checked for any physical
causes of her aggression? What if she is in pain from some disorder
that might be easily corrected? Please consider turning Willow over
to a no-kill shelter. Feeling as you do it is difficult to imagine you
finding her a good home and she does not deserve to be put to
death instead of having her aggression addressed and treated.
5cats - 19 Sep 2005 21:02 GMT
> 1) She lives with an aggressive sister who hates her for some reason.
> This cat is miserable.  Lilly tried to be her friend and play with her
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> the vet stated put her down.  WE feel this is 95% of the problem...Willow
> that is.    

How long have they lived together? Has Willow always been aggressive? I
really can't understand a vet suggesting that an animal be put down without  
looking for the cause of the aggression.  I'd be looking for another vet at
this point.  
grasshopper - 20 Sep 2005 20:56 GMT
5cats Wrote:
> [/i][/color]
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> vet at
> this point.

Willow and Lilly have been together since kittens.  Willow has neve
been a loving cat and over time she has developed into a mean cat.  He
behavior is unacceptable .  The reason why the vet has suggested to pu
Willow down is due to the danger she poses.  She will attack humans
and when she's angry she goes for blood.  Last time we had the vet loo
willow over he had to handle her and she disliked this.  She tried t
bite his face, and he had to restrain her with 2 hands around her neck
At home we know better, then to pick her up, or stop her from doin
something...she will attack if we do.  The only person that can pick u
Willow is my 9 year old.  Willow and her are great friends, yet I hat
when she picks Willow up it's turns my stomach.  Willow has turned o
my daughter once about a year ago.  She was trying to hug willow an
she bite her on the cheek, not hard but enough to make a mark.  
almost put her down right there but then I took into account a littl
girl and envisioned the Loony Toons girl squeezing the cat.  She neve
bit her again but my daughter knows much better.  We came up with
plan and that was to try medication and hopefully with medication sh
will come around and not be so aggressive.  At this point she is stil
miserable yet drugged out. It's affecting our family and our other cat
We now have to take the next step and remove her from our household.
Our vet feels putting her down is the best choice becasue she will no
be adotptable due to her agressive nature.  She is a risk.  We hav
looked into a no kill shelter and although money is an issue, I feel
can't abandon an animal, I have a responsibility to Willow and I'd pa
the $225.00 to keep her alive if she has a chance to get better.  
have a good feeling she will not get better and will always b
agressive therfore keeoping her in a cage for the rest of her life wil
be a worse end.  I sorry to say but I agree with my Vet.  We have made
decision to remove her from our household just not exactly what to do

--
grasshopper
5cats - 21 Sep 2005 03:05 GMT
> 5cats Wrote:
>> [/i][/color]
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> be a worse end.  I sorry to say but I agree with my Vet.  We have made a
> decision to remove her from our household just not exactly what to do.


Cats don't become aggressive without a cause. Maybe we don't have the
resources to figure it out, but it's there. Could be physical, it could
be something in the environment that's stressing her out and making her
fearful and aggressive. It's a long shot, but maybe you could find
someone willing to give her a chance in a quiet, only cat environment if
you agreed to take her back if things didn't work out?  

There are no-kill shelters around here that have people who are
experienced with working with difficult animals, of course they also  
have limited time & resources and can't always help everyone.  
grasshopper - 21 Sep 2005 14:43 GMT
5cats Wrote:

> a-
> decision to remove her from our household just not exactly what t
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> experienced with working with difficult animals, of course they also
> have limited time & resources and can't always help everyone.

As I said in the beginning Willow has never been loving yet she wasn'
aggressive.  This is what I feel caused the aggressive nature.

Approx. 2 years ago my wife and I moved out of our town home into
cape cod.  Our town home was not your typical town house.  Typicall
town homes are grouped together and there are hundreds, well a privat
builder made our TH and it was on a lot with 3 other TH's, so imagin
Four 2 story TH’s in a line on a wooded lot.  The back was to a far
and the front was all wooded.  Willow was an indoor cat 100%.  When w
moved into our cape cod, we moved onto a 1/2 acre in a neighborhood.
Almost every family on our block has a cat or two that is an outdoor
cat.  These cats poop, pee, in our yard and taunt our cats through th
window and have even tried to fight our cats through the screen.  I
our town home, they never saw another cat just birds and lilly an
willow.  Now there's cats all over.  I think this change has prompte
Willow to become aggressive and has even turned willow against he
sister.  We have made Willow a 75% outdoors cat, if she's in the hous
she's miserable, fights with lilly,...etc  She gets into a lot o
fights outside, at  least 1 a week and when she fights she gets s
upset she will pee herself or even poop during the fight.  When sh
fights there's no consoling her, we have to put her in a room b
herself to calm her down and close the door or she will hurt lilly o
one of us.  If we try to approach her or pick her up she will growl
hissing and attack.  Although we didn't do anything to her she makes u
the enemy. After 20 minutes in the room we can let her out and she i
not a danger, but if she passes Lilly she hisses or growls at her an
wants nothing to do with us.  We just leave her alone. She basicall
uses us to to eat on a daily basis.

That’s what I believe is the cause, your thoughts....thanks for you
help as well.  It was a very difficult night for us last night.  W
told our 9 year old we were going to give Willow up for adoption.  SH
cried for almost an hour straight....unconsolable.  WE tried to tel
her it was in the best instreast for WIllow but she's 9 she doesn'
understand.  She's afraid the next owner will hurt her and put her dow
becasue she's difficult.   I think if we can find a owner who is singl
with no other animals willow will be happy and won't be aggresive. W
called a program called Animal Welfare in NJ.  They are a no kil
shelter and luckily taking cats, although there's a fee of $75-$250 t
have her cared for

--
grasshopper
papagano - 21 Sep 2005 19:59 GMT
grasshopper Wrote:
> As I said in the beginning Willow has never been loving yet she wasn'
> aggressive.  This is what I feel caused the aggressive nature.
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> shelter and luckily taking cats, although there's a fee of $75-$250 t
> have her cared for.

I hope you don't mind me jumping in as I just found this board and am
still checking it out. I don't think you should get rid of you
aggressive kitty. It teaches you daughter that cats are disposable
plus you cat is being bullied and upset by outside cats which is no
her fault!!! You should keep her inside and get the cats out of you
yard and her line of vision. There are ways to cat proof your fence t
keep animals out. You can try meds. My cat has always been fine wit
other cats in the past, but when I adopted a companion for him h
locked on the new kitty like a heat seeking missile and no amount o
separation or anything else was working. I'm not going to get rid o
the other cat, so the vet said try Clomicalm which he said is good fo
mad, upset kitties. He is a 12 pound  cat and gets 1/4 of a 20 mg pil
once a day. In about two weeks it built up and wokred like a charm. H
doesn't attack the other cat any more and he doesn't act drugged u
either, although I think he sleeps a bit more. He's his same ol
charming self and I have peace in my house again. The vet says to kee
him on it for awhile so he gets use to being around the other cat an
not fighting and then I'm supposed to start reducing his dose over
few weeks time to see if I can take him off completely. You should tr
this first because of your little girl and because your kitty is reall
upset because of things that aren't her fault and you could change. Yo
said she use to be a nice kitty.

Signature

papagano

zuzu22@webtv.net - 22 Sep 2005 00:27 GMT
> As I said in the beginning Willow has
> never been loving yet she wasn't
> aggressive. This is what I feel caused
> the aggressive nature.

If there is a cause, there is a cure. You have to take responsibility
for the situation and do the right thing here, which is not to dump this
cat at a shelter and break the heart of your daughter for no good
reason.

> Approx. 2 years ago my wife and I moved
> out of our town home into a cape cod.
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> has even turned willow against her
> sister.

You are absolutely, 100% correct and, instaed of taking responsibility,
here you are willing to abandon your cat and hurt your daughter for
something that the cat can't help. Don't you see the cruelty in this
decision?

>We have made Willow a 75%
> outdoors cat, if she's in the house
> she's miserable, fights with
> lilly,...etc

Which is likely caused by stress from the cats outside taunting her.
Look up "redirected aggression". Your situation is a classic example.

>She gets into a lot of
> fights outside, at least 1 a week and
> when she fights she gets so upset she
> will pee herself or even poop during the
> fight.

Then you shouldn't allow her outside unless she's supervised and no
other cats are around. It's clearly stressing her out and putting her in
harm's way, not to mention CAUSING the aggression.

>When she fights there's no
> consoling her, we have to put her in a
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> and wants nothing to do with us. We just
> leave her alone.

I don't blame her. Being constantly attacked and having to fight
outside, and being met with dislike and derision inside certainly
doesn't promote a happy home for her now does it?

>She basically uses us
> to to eat on a daily basis.

She's not using you. You are neglecting her needs and aren't looking out
for her welfare and she is miserable as a result. She still has to eat,
though.

> That's what I believe is the cause, your
> thoughts....thanks for your help as
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> will hurt her and put her down becasue
> she's difficult.  

Out of the mouths of babes. She's probably right, and you are cruel to
do this to your daughter and Willow when taking some simple steps would
fix the problem.

>I think if we can
> find a owner who is single with no other
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> although there's a fee of $75-$250 to
> have her cared for.

They have enough problems and cats to care for without having to take on
another because you find her inconvenient.

Reading your post makes me very angry because your cat is suffering at
your hands and because of your ignorance, and now you are going to
torture your daughter over this because you view this cat as disposable.

It does not have to be this way.

Block off access to or cover windows where outside cats can be seen.

Cat proof your yard so the outside cats can't taunt yours. If you don't
have a fence, get one. If you do fix it so nothing can get out or in.

Get Feliway diffusers and plug them in in the main areas where Willow
spends time.

Do not let her outside unless she's on a harness and leash with you or
anothet family member at the other end supervising.

Make any association with the other cat positive. Never yell or get
angry if she hisses or growls. Always have kind words for her and be
gentle anytime she is near the other cat so she starts to associate her
housemate with *good* things. Treats help as does feeding them close to
each other.

Consider using medication to calm Willow's aggression and use that time
to implement behavior modification using only positive means so her
relationship with the other cat becomes more at ease. Two that are
commonly used are Prozac (fluoxetine) and Clomipramine (Clomicalm).
Since she is so freaked out and stressed from the neglect she's
suffered, and based on my experience (I am not a vet) I would start at
the higher recommended dose (Fluoxetine -.5 mg per pound, Clomipramine-
5 mg per pound) and decrease after her attitude has been improved and
consistent for a minimum of several (4-6) months.

While I do believe that the situation that brought Willow to the point
she is at now is a result of mostly ignorance on your part rather than
being intentional, the bottom line here is that *you* created this
problem and it's not the fault of the cat. Instead of forcing your
daughter and her beloved Willow to suffer, you should do everything you
have to to correct the situation. It would be the right thing to do and
would teach your daughter a valuable lesson about taking responsibility,
even when it's hard.

Megan

                                   
Signature


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- W.H. Murray


grasshopper - 22 Sep 2005 15:56 GMT
Let me first say thank you to everyone who has responded eithe
positively or negatively..your opinion whether based on facts or not i
valid.

I will first respond to Megan then the other posts:

-
"If there is a cause there is a cure"
-

-
That’s absolutely incorrect.  I'm medical doctor and although I'm
young man and have much room for knowledge I do know a little about ho
body's work.  

There's not a cure for every cause..or let me restate that there ar
answers to causes but not always cures both Psychologically an
physiologically.  Obviously a virus has no cures, yet not so noticeabl
are brain conditions.  A brain can reach a point of damage where there'
no return.
-

-
You are absolutely, 100% correct and, instaed of takin
responsibility,
here you are willing to abandon your cat and hurt your daughter for
something that the cat can't help. Don't you see the cruelty in this
decision?

-

-
You have not read my entire post because if you did you would hav
realized that I stated "I have a responsibility to this animal and
can't just thow it away," that's not what I want to teach my daughter.
Your statement is biased and not based on facts.  We are doing the bes
we can with the situation at hand.  I will NOT sacrifice my family’
welfare for this animal.  This is an animal, not a human.  Willow i
dangerous.
-

-
Then you shouldn't allow her outside unless she's supervised and no
other cats are around. It's clearly stressing her out and putting he
in
harm's way, not to mention CAUSING the aggression.
-

-
We have to let Willow outside or she will attack Lilly or one of us.
Letting a Willow outside 75% of the time is ok...yet as I said she wil
get into fights.  She starts them too.  Recently I've seen cats I hav
never seen before...there coming from all over..it's the Ultimat
fighting championship in my back yard.  The only way to stop this is t
remove her form the house.
-

-
I don't blame her. Being constantly attacked and having to fight
outside, and being met with dislike and derision inside certainly
doesn't promote a happy home for her now does it?
-

-  
We do not meet her with dislike..she doesn't want anything to do wit
us..you can't give a cat attention if it doesn't want it.  Willow ha
made her bed, and this is what she prefers.  She can be nice, but sh
chooses not to be.
-

-  
She's not using you. You are neglecting her needs and aren't lookin
out
for her welfare and she is miserable as a result. She still has t
eat,
though.

Out of the mouths of babes. She's probably right, and you are cruel to
do this to your daughter and Willow when taking some simple step
would
fix the problem.
-

-
1) WE are looking out for Willow's best interest, your just so caugh
up in your own BS you CAN'T SEE IT.  Willow is not happy..we have trie
medicine, letting her do what ever she wants...but she has not turne
around.  The best solution is to remove her form the situation so sh
can be happy. you also forget Willow is a danger and I can not have
dangerous animal in our house.  I not throwing her away or showing m
daughter this...what I'm teaching my daughter and showing her is tha
my daughter means much more then this animal and my families welfare i
important..even if it takes removing a loved animal.  
-

-

They have enough problems and cats to care for without having to tak
on
another because you find her inconvenient.

Reading your post makes me very angry because your cat is suffering at
your hands and because of your ignorance, and now you are going to
torture your daughter over this because you view this cat a
disposable.

It does not have to be this way.
..blah ...blah ...blah

While I do believe that the situation that brought Willow to the point
she is at now is a result of mostly ignorance on your part rather than
being intentional, the bottom line here is that *you* created this
problem and it's not the fault of the cat. Instead of forcing your
daughter and her beloved Willow to suffer, you should do everythin
you
have to to correct the situation. It would be the right thing to do
and
would teach your daughter a valuable lesson about taking
responsibility,
even when it's hard.
-

-

You forget we have another cat that is suffering because of willow.
How is spending hundreds of dollars on medicines, blood tests, vet
appointments neglecting her.  I will not let this animal rule our life
and turn our house upside down so she won't see another cat outside.
Theres a point that we draw the line, and we have drawn it.  You also
forget this animal is a danger and all it takes is willow biting a
child and we are sued for everything we have.  THAT IS NOT IN MY CHILDS
BEST INTEREST OR MY FAMILIES.  So a little crying on my daughter’s part
can put her through college and offer much more later down the line.
It's absolutely sad that you would protect an animal over a
child...your priorities or out of wack and teaching my daughter
responsibility is making the right decisions even if it hurts, not
making the wrong decision so she feels better.  I hope to god you don’t
have children.   You stated I started and created this problem and again
your insane and an idiot!!!....I'm going to do what's best for my family
and if moving into a nice neighborhood which offers my child a wonderful
neighborhood to play in that safe, as well as provide my wife with a
home she's happy with....and if my cat doesn't like who give a F**K.
It's an animal and my life isn't ruled by this animal.  If she doesn't
like it..thanks Willow and GOODBYE!  Medicine...we have tried Elivil
and she can't take a lot of medicine due to her liver and kidneys.

Whew..not to move on to the next post
-
-

Oh my gosh, these are classic symptoms of parasites like giardia or
cryptosporidium. CLASSIC. And they will turn a cat mean. Please find a
good vet or just tell the dumba** vet to test for parasites. If the
idiot says it's not necessary because the cat is indoors, inform him
that these parasites can come from even a municipal chlorinated water
supply.

This is just awful to read about your cat, her aggression, thinking of
putting her down because of typical incompetence by vets who, many,
are
regarded as competent.

PARASITES, okay? Easy easy easy to cure.

Whew.
-

-

It's very interesting you stated this..becasue our other cat..has
licked her stomach clear of hair due to a behavior response of Willow.
We thought at first Lilly's licking was an allergy or giardia but almost
ruled that out completely when she did not respond to the steroidal
treatment.  AS far as willow is concerned and having a parasite...I
find it unlikely due to her symptoms..there are none.  Symptoms of
giardia or other parasites are a swollen lip/mouth, skin irritations
..etc...she is 100% healthy besides her behavior.
-

-
I hope you don't mind me jumping in as I just found this board and am
still checking it out. I don't think you should get rid of your
aggressive kitty. It teaches you daughter that cats are disposable,
plus you cat is being bullied and upset by outside cats which is not
her fault!!! You should keep her inside and get the cats out of your
yard and her line of vision. There are ways to cat proof your fence to
keep animals out. You can try meds. My cat has always been fine with
other cats in the past, but when I adopted a companion for him he
locked on the new kitty like a heat seeking missile and no amount of
separation or anything else was working. I'm not going to get rid of
the other cat, so the vet said try Clomicalm which he said is good for
mad, upset kitties. He is a 12 pound cat and gets 1/4 of a 20 mg pill
once a day. In about two weeks it built up and wokred like a charm. He
doesn't attack the other cat any more and he doesn't act drugged up
either, although I think he sleeps a bit more. He's his same old
charming self and I have peace in my house again. The vet says to keep
him on it for awhile so he gets use to being around the other cat and
not fighting and then I'm supposed to start reducing his dose over a
few weeks time to see if I can take him off completely. You should try
this first because of your little girl and because your kitty is really
upset because of things that aren't her fault and you could change. You
said she use to be a nice kitty.

-

-

Thanks for your response but I've answered most of it previously.
Right now Willow is on Elivil and she's somewhat responded...but I
believe that's because she's drugged out... I hate to see her like that
so I cut back her medicine.  Elivil for those that don't know is an
anti-depressant that was used in humans decades ago.  It was a very
popular drug yet discontinued because of it wasn't effective.  Animals
on the other hand have a better reaction.  Elivil is also used in
humans for neurological conditions today
treeline12345@yahoo.com - 22 Sep 2005 19:48 GMT
I wrote, not grasshopper:
> Oh my gosh, these are classic symptoms of parasites like giardia or
> cryptosporidium. CLASSIC. And they will turn a cat mean. Please find a
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Whew.

Someone wrote this, maybe grasshopper, maybe his zen cricket:

> It's very interesting you stated this..becasue our other cat..has
> licked her stomach clear of hair due to a behavior response of Willow.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> giardia or other parasites are a swollen lip/mouth, skin irritations
> ...etc...she is 100% healthy besides her behavior.

You must be a troll. Even if you are quack, most quacks are not so
incompetent to give steroids when antiobiotics will cure the parasites.

You're not really a doctor but some teenaged kid I gather.

All you people out there. ANTIBIOTICS for parasites. Tell your vets.
It's okay I emailed the original poster.

By the way, d00d, antibiotics <> steroids. Okay?

Are you really a doctor who gave steroids for parasites? What type of
doctor are you? A homeopath? Even MD's are not this bad and they are
bad.
5cats - 22 Sep 2005 20:34 GMT
>  Willow has
> made her bed, and this is what she prefers.  She can be nice, but she
> chooses not to be.

Cats do not have the same brain capacity that people have to choose how
they behave. They can only resond to their environment in the way they are
geneticaly programmed to respond.
treeline12345@yahoo.com - 23 Sep 2005 00:13 GMT
> Cats do not have the same brain capacity that people have to choose how
> they behave. They can only resond to their environment in the way they are
> geneticaly programmed to respond.

Yes, I have read that their frontal lobes are not quite as developed as
ours, well, maybe yours, I'm not so sure about mine ;)

Generally their neurophysiology is remarkably similar to we non-furry
bipeds. That can be very dangerous for them as possible lab rats. For
the record, they vibrate usually around 14 Hz, and we humans are a bit
lower. Hence they are running on a faster circuit!!!

Of course, between a smart cat and a rather challeneged obsessing
compulsive, it's difficult to say who has the better meow.
zuzu22@webtv.net - 23 Sep 2005 01:22 GMT
> That's absolutely incorrect.

In this case, no it's not. I'm tallking about a behavior created by
circumstance, which is exactly what is going on with your cat. Change
the circumstances and you can modify the behavior.

> You have not read my entire post because
> if you did you would have realized that
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> and not based on facts. We are doing the
> best we can with the situation at hand.

I did read your entire post and you are indeed throwing her away and by
no means doing what's best for her, as you state clearly below.

> I will NOT sacrifice my family's welfare
> for this animal. This is an animal, not
> a human. Willow is dangerous.

Because of circumstances you created and have the power to change.

> We have to let Willow outside or she
> will attack Lilly or one of us. Letting
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> way to stop this is to remove her form
> the house.

That's not true. You can cat proof your yard or keep Willow inside and
allow her out on supervised outings.  Don't blame  Willow for your
laziness and unwillingness to do anything for her that requires effort.

> We do not meet her with dislike..she
> doesn't want anything to do with us..you
> can't give a cat attention if it doesn't
> want it. Willow has made her bed, and
> this is what she prefers. She can be
> nice, but she chooses not to be.

No, she's so stressed out from the trauma she constantly endures that it
doesn't leave room for anything else. And don't think she doesn't pick
up on your true feelings about her. You've already discussed killing her
and plan to abandon her. You've written her off and she can sense it.

> 1) WE are looking out for Willow's best
> interest, your just so caught up in your
> own BS you CAN'T SEE IT. Willow is not
> happy..we have tried medicine,

You're not using the right one. Elavil is a poor choice for treating
aggression and the drugs I mentioned in my previous post work better. As
to your claim she can't be on much because of some liver/kidney issue,
don't assume we're stupid here. Elavil is also contraindicated, but it
didn't stop you from using it. If you are telling the truth (and I don't
believe you are) and you're using meds anyway, for god's sake try using
one that will actually help.

>letting
> her do what ever she wants...but she has
> not turned around.

She has not turned around because of your failure to change the
circumstances so she isn't in a position to suffer so much stress and
chaos in her life. I gave you steps to a soution. If you choose to
ignore them it just proves my assertion that you would rather be lazy
and cause your daughter and Willow to suffer.

>The best solution is
> to remove her form the situation so she
> can be happy. you also forget Willow is
> a danger and I can not have a dangerous
> animal in our house. I not throwing her
> away or showing my daughter this...

I don't believe that she's so "dangerous." If she was your daughter
wouldn't be in the emotional state she is in and begging you to keep
Willow. You're lying and it comes across loud and clear.

>what
> I'm teaching my daughter and showing her
> is that my daughter means much more then
> this animal and my families welfare is
> important..even if it takes removing a
> loved animal.

No you're not. I wonder how your daughter would feel if she saw how
you're ignoring valuable and experienced advice that could modify
Willow's behavior and help her to stay in the home? She'd know exactly
where you stand and see the ugly truth that this IS a matter of
convenience for you and you don't give a damn about breaking your
daughter's heart.

> You forget we have another cat that is
> suffering because of willow.

Not at all, and changing the circumstances that are causing Willow to
behave the way she is will improve her behavior and be good for the
other cat.

>How is
> spending hundreds of dollars on
> medicines, blood tests, vet appointments
> neglecting her.

Because you're ignoring basic principles of cat behavior, and behavior
is the issue here. Because you have the solution staring you in the face
and you refuse to acknowledge it because it would take effort.

>I will not let this
> animal rule our life and turn our house
> upside down so she won't see another cat
> outside.

So, it IS about convenience. Your exaggeration is noted.

>Theres a point that we draw the
> line, and we have drawn it. You also
> forget this animal is a danger and all
> it takes is willow biting a child and we
> are sued for everything we have.

As you should be if you left a child unsupervised with a dangerous cat.
Yet your daughter loves her and can handle her. You're lying.

>You stated I
> started and created this problem and
> again your insane and an idiot!!!

Not at all. I'm correct and anyone with knowledge of cat behavior and
intercat dynamics would agree with me.

>....I'm
> going to do what's best for my family
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> animal and my life isn't ruled by this
> animal.

So the truth comes out. Willow is disposable. I was right all along and
you are victimizing Willow and your daughter for no other reason than
that you are selfish and lazy.

I certainly hope that the ethics you practice in medicine are nothing
like those you practice at home. If they are you can kiss your
daughter's college education (and any hope of continuing to be a doctor)
goodbye.

Megan

                                   
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

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http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray


cybercat - 23 Sep 2005 03:57 GMT
> I don't believe that she's so "dangerous." If she was your daughter
> wouldn't be in the emotional state she is in and begging you to keep
[quoted text clipped - 74 lines]
>
> Megan

Is this supposed to be persuasion? The OP originally planned to put the
cat down. A no-kill shelter is a better option. Or, perhaps someone with
some actual persuasive skills might try to talk to her. But you are not
doing
a bit of good with your rabid dog routine. Of course you know that.
grasshopper - 23 Sep 2005 18:35 GMT
Megan,

Well how about this..if you feel so strongly and so knowledgeable i
animal behavior..you can adopt her.  I would be happy to pay for th
shipping...and any other costs associated in getting her to yo
safely.

Also..some behavior is not reversible as you stated...a change o
circumstances or routine will not make everything ok.  I don't kno
exactly what caused this unfortunate incident but I am almost sure thi
incident was not only caused by a chemical imbalance of some sort, bu
also the change of homes and other animals in the neighborhood.  Thes
two issues together have created an uncontrollable cat.  You stated w
are utilizing the wrong drug, and in my post I stated Willows Kidne
function would not allow a medicine such as Prozac or other chemicals.
To put her on a drug like this would cause her kidneys to quite an
possibly her liver.  So putting her on a drug like this would kill her
So now what....you can't medicate the animal to control it's behavior
it's behavior is not only disturbing our family but our other cat a
well..which I have an update below...and all you can do is remove thi
animal from the residence and hope for a better life for her and us.  

AS far as lilly...since we have not allow Willow in the house the pas
few days (3 to be exact) and lilly has not come into contact wit
Willow she has stopped licking and has returned to her normal self.
She's a sweet as pie.  I didn't think it would happen this quick an
have her come around like this.  This it's a great example how willow'
mean spirit has hurt us all, and how removing her from the house ha
created a better environment for our other animal.  She is the proble
not us as you state  Just look at the statistics...4 to 1

--
grasshopper
cybercat - 23 Sep 2005 19:37 GMT
> Megan,
>
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> created a better environment for our other animal.  She is the problem
> not us as you state  Just look at the statistics...4 to 1.

And here we have it--exactly what I new from your first post. You do not
care about this cat, and neither Megan's browbeating nor anything else
can MAKE you care about Willow. That's just the way it is--it is the
same with people, we care enough to help some but not others.

Just please don't have her euthanized, take her to a no-kill shelter
with a full explanation of'what has been done to her to make her
aggressive. Perhaps someone there will care enough to try to undo
the damage you have done to her--albeit without meaning to.

She deserves a chance to live.  The circumstances of her birth
and upbringing were not her fault, after all.
zuzu22@webtv.net - 24 Sep 2005 22:20 GMT
> Megan,
> Well how about this..if you feel so
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> other costs associated in getting her to
> you safely.

Here you are again expecting someone else to fix the mess you made. It's
so much easier for you than taking responsibility...

> Also..some behavior is not reversible as
> you stated...a change of circumstances
> or routine will not make everything ok.
> I don't know exactly what caused this
> unfortunate incident

You know exactly what caused it and it was spelled out to you in a
previous post. Backpedaling at this point doesn't buy you any
credibility.

>but I am almost
> sure this incident was not only caused
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> issues together have created an
> uncontrollable cat.

And I gave you the means to correct the problem.

>You stated we are
> utilizing the wrong drug, and in my post
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> quite and possibly her liver. So putting
> her on a drug like this would kill her.

B.S. You're lying and it's oh-so-convenient for you to claim supposed
liver/kidney issue after the fact. It sure didn't stop you from putting
her on a medication that is also contraindicated, so stop making a fool
of yourself with your lame lies.

> So now what....you can't medicate the
> animal to control it's behavior, it's
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> residence and hope for a better life for
> her and us.

Again, I gave you the means to correct the problem, much of which does
not involve medications and only involves simple steps to eliminate the
outside influences that created Willow's behavior in the first place.

> AS far as lilly...since we have not
> allow Willow in the house the past few
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> didn't think it would happen this quick
> and have her come around like this.

Isn't it funny how a change of circumstances or routine made everything
ok? And quickly too.  How about that, especially when you said it
couldn't be done a few paragraphs ago. The same could be done for Willow
if you weren't so lazy and heartless.

>This
> it's a great example how willow's mean
> spirit has hurt us all, and how removing
> her from the house has created a better
> environment for our other animal. She is
> the problem not us as you state

You're wrong. YOU are the problem and YOU have forced Willow to become
the way she is because of your ignorance and insistence on forcing her
to be in a stressful and harmful environment, one that could be modified
to eliminate the stress and harm if you had a heart. I bet if your
daughter was made aware of what was needed she would try anything and
try to do it all herself if she had to, even at 9 years old. She
obviously cares deeply about Willow and seems to be the only one in your
household with a heart. Hopefully she'll be immune to your
unconscionably irresponsible and cold hearted influences and grow up to
be a decent human being in spite of you.

>Just
> look at the statistics...4 to 1.

Gang mentality is not a statistic.

Megan

                                   
Signature


"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray


-L. - 25 Sep 2005 02:12 GMT
> Megan,
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Also..some behavior is not reversible as you stated...a change of
> circumstances or routine will not make everything ok.

Sometimes it does.

> I don't know
> exactly what caused this unfortunate incident

Megan spelled it out.  YOU created it.  YOU just don't want to accept
the responsibility.

> but I am almost sure this
> incident was not only caused by a chemical imbalance of some sort, but
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> To put her on a drug like this would cause her kidneys to quite and
> possibly her liver.  So putting her on a drug like this would kill her.

Prozac isn't know to be excessively hard on organ function - certainly
not any more so than Elavil.

> So now what....you can't medicate the animal to control it's behavior,
> it's behavior is not only disturbing our family but our other cat as
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> have her come around like this.  This it's a great example how willow's
> mean spirit has hurt us all,

A cat is incapable of having a "mean spirit".  They function on
instinct.  You have created her behavior.

>and how removing her from the house has
> created a better environment for our other animal.  She is the problem
> not us as you state  Just look at the statistics...4 to 1.

Do the cat a favor and take it to a shelter where it has a chance at a
better life.  And please do not get any more animals until you
understand animal behavior a little better.  Your ignorance and
inappropriate actions toward and with the cat have created this
situation.

[Sheesh.  It's people like this that make me want to quit rescue, quit
working in the field.  Mess up an animal's life and then blame the
animal.  I've seen it far too many times, and it disgusts me every,
single time...]

-L.
cybercat - 25 Sep 2005 03:07 GMT
> > Megan,
> >
[quoted text clipped - 57 lines]
>
> -L.

Nicely put, Lyn.
-L. - 25 Sep 2005 07:01 GMT
> Nicely put, Lyn.

Thank you, Nancy.

-L.
Charlie Wilkes - 25 Sep 2005 10:57 GMT
>This it's a great example how willow's
>mean spirit has hurt us all, and how removing her from the house has
>created a better environment for our other animal.  She is the problem
>not us as you state  Just look at the statistics...4 to 1.

It sounds like you are angry at this animal, which is not the best
emotional framework for a sound decision.  My opinion is, if your
daughter likes the cat, you better hang onto it.  She's gonna be a
teenager in four years.  You want to be her hero now, so she'll listen
to you then.  Figure out a way to keep both cats happy and separate.
You can do it.

Charlie
zuzu22@webtv.net - 25 Sep 2005 07:07 GMT
I wrote:
>Fluoxetine -.5 mg per pound,
>Clomipramine- 5 mg per pound

There was a typo wrt the clomipramine dose and it should read:

Fluoxetine -.5 mg per pound, Clomipramine- ***.5***mg per pound.

Megan

                                   
Signature


"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray


Rhonda - 25 Sep 2005 06:21 GMT
In June when you posted about the problem with Willow, you mentioned the
biting the vet's face incident. The next time you took her to the vet,
you said she was purring and was the perfect cat with him.

Did Willow go back since then and try to bite his face again? It sounded
to me like things were better at the vet's.

I think you should try Megan's suggestions, the different drugs that she
mentioned to you in June, and now. The behavioral things you can try. It
does not sound like this cat is a threat to your daughter.

I know you've tried several things already, but try the things Megan
mentioned. Show your daughter by your actions that every life is
precious. Keeping the cat outside is only avoiding the issue and making
her more miserable, and probably more aggressive.

Good luck,

Rhonda

> Last time we had the vet look
> willow over he had to handle her and she disliked this.  She tried to
> bite his face, and he had to restrain her with 2 hands around her neck.
treeline12345@yahoo.com - 21 Sep 2005 23:01 GMT
> PLEASE TELL ME WHAT SHE TAKES TO HELP THE LICKING.  I just posted up
> that my cat is licking her stomach and she won't stop.  We've had the
> cone on for 3 months and I wish we could figure out why.  We've taken
> her to the doctor a few times and they don't know why.  PLEASE HELP I
> DON"T CARE ABOUT THE COST OF THE PILLS I JUST WANT MY LILLY TO BE OK!

Oh my gosh, these are classic symptoms of parasites like giardia or
cryptosporidium. CLASSIC. And they will trun a cat mean. Please find a
good vet or just tell the dumbass vet to test for parasites. If the
idiot says it's not necessary because the cat is indoors, inform him
that these parasites can come from even a municipal chlorinated water
supply.

This is just awful to read about your cat, her aggression, thinking of
putting her down because of typical incompetence by vets who, many, are
regarded as competent.

PARASITES, okay? Easy easy easy to cure.

Whew.
IBen Getiner - 27 Sep 2005 08:23 GMT
> raenee Wrote:
> > My grandma's cat is about the same, but he does that to his shoulders.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> --
> grasshopper

Are you petting her down the spine? Because if you are, you should be
aware of the fact that cats will do their dead-level best to get your
human scent off their person (is that the proper word?) and at all
cost. They must at all times have a fresh coat of dried saliva covering
every square inch of their furry little bodies (this is what is known
as cat dander, by the way ... the peeling off of their dried saliva
that gets inhaled by you, the allergy sufferer). Our little boy groomed
himself incessantly and at first, we assumed he needed our help in
bathing, so we instituted a severe bathing regiment. We even tried an
Elizabethan collar, but to no avail. It only made things worse. We have
since learned that the constant process of covering themselves with a
coat of their own saliva is a kat's way of loving himself. If you don't
want them to lick as much, then you must not pet. At least, not without
having non-latex 100 percent cotton gloves on.

                          IBen
5cats - 27 Sep 2005 14:04 GMT
> Are you petting her down the spine? Because if you are, you should be
> aware of the fact that cats will do their dead-level best to get your
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
>                            IBen

I guess I must smell better than you do, since none of my cats has ever
shown a desire to groom excessively after I pet them or after sitting on
my lap.
Diane - 27 Sep 2005 14:14 GMT
> I guess I must smell better than you do, since none of my cats has ever
> shown a desire to groom excessively after I pet them or after sitting on
> my lap.

Ditto. What a theory, though!
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grasshopper - 27 Sep 2005 17:44 GMT
Ok here'a an update...

I have contacted Animal Welfare and they will be taking Willow int
their adoption facility.  They are well known for great treatment an
they have a no kill policy.  They have already found Willow an owne
..we just need to surrender her.

Dave

Thanks for your help everyone

I ben...thanks for your questions here's the answer...

Lilly is such a lover and follows me everywhere, I have never had a ca
like this..she's the best!  She actually climbs under the sheets a
night and turns around so her head is sticking out of the covers lik
us and sleeps so I have my chest to her back. ....The point I'm tryin
to get to is I don't think she cares about my scent.  She does it to m
wife too.  The licking we are experiencing is a behavioral response t
Willow.  Every since we removed willow she has been licking less an
less.  Hair is actually growing back.  

Dav

--
grasshopper
Candace - 28 Sep 2005 07:49 GMT
> Ok here'a an update...
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Dave

If you're telling the truth, then I'm sure it's best for Willow to be
able to be away from people who don't care about her.  I hope it is
really a no-kill facility and you're not just yanking our chain.  I
wish Willow the very best and hope she will one day have a very happy
life with someone who gives a crap about her.

Candace
grasshopper - 28 Sep 2005 14:31 GMT
Candace Wrote:
> Ok here'a an update...
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Candace

-
Boy am I tired of most of you people....If I didn't care fo thi
animal...I would have put her down and buried her in the back yard.  
would have not given her a chance nor pay 275 dollars to keep her aliv
til she is adopted.  We want the best for Willow and unfortunately it'
not with us.  This adoption facility is a good one and will guarante
Willow will either be adopted or live till she dies of natural causes.
Even the owner has to sign a no kill contract stating that if for som
reason Willow gets hurt and needs emergency care, and he doesn't wan
to pay for it, (risking her life) or just doesn't want Willo
anymore.....he has to surender her to the welfare program.  It ensure
a good life for Willow.  I don't understand why you can't see out o
the box.  If Willow is miserable and a new owner can offer a much nice
environment, they why is that "not caring for this animal"  I'm offerin
her a better life.  The fact that I drew a line on how far we will go i
a boundry I have made, and life is full of boundries.

--
grasshopper
Candace - 29 Sep 2005 07:03 GMT
>  I don't understand why you can't see out of
> the box.  If Willow is miserable and a new owner can offer a much nicer
> environment, they why is that "not caring for this animal"  I'm offering
> her a better life.  The fact that I drew a line on how far we will go is
> a boundry I have made, and life is full of boundries.

Yeah, it's *I* who can't see outside the box.  I *said* it's good
Willow is going somewhere where people will love and care for her.
Good for her.  I hope she has a wonderful life.

Candace
grasshopper - 30 Sep 2005 19:00 GMT
Candace Wrote:
> -
> I don't understand why you can't see out of
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Candace

How dare you state I don't care about this animal. I do that's why I'
taking the necessary step to make sure she has a nice and happy life

--
grasshopper
SexySoxy - 01 Oct 2005 03:30 GMT
> > Yeah, it's *I* who can't see outside the box.  I *said* it's good
> > Willow is going somewhere where people will love and care for her.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> How dare you state I don't care about this animal. I do that's why I'm
> taking the necessary step to make sure she has a nice and happy life.

Fine, that's swell.  Why don't you get on with it then instead of just
shutting her outside your house?  Let her go on to a happier chapter in
her life.

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