Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / October 2005
Help - cat keeps licking her back
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TJ - 16 Feb 2005 21:26 GMT One of the neighbourhood cats has adopted me after I fed her so I guess I'm responsible for her now.
She keeps licking her back about 3 inches down from her shoulder blades - dead centre of her spine.
It's getting a bit red, sore looking and bald there. It heals up quickly then she starts licking it until it is sore again. What the heck is up with this crazy feline.
TJ
Cathy Friedmann - 17 Feb 2005 21:47 GMT As a complete aside: are you TJ of "TJ & the Dust"?
Cathy
> One of the neighbourhood cats has adopted me after I > fed her so I guess I'm responsible for her now. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > TJ TJ - 16 Feb 2005 21:54 GMT > As a complete aside: are you TJ of "TJ & the Dust"? > > Cathy You know, it's funny you should ask me that because, er, no... I'm not.
TJ
Cathy Friedmann - 17 Feb 2005 21:54 GMT > > As a complete aside: are you TJ of "TJ & the Dust"? > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > TJ Okay, thanks, anyway. ;-)
(I used to know of a poster named TJ, who had a HUGE cat named Dusty...)
Cathy
raenee - 18 Feb 2005 18:28 GMT My grandma's cat is about the same, but he does that to his shoulders. She took him to the vet and the vet gave him some pills to take. That seemed to do the trick, but the pills were too expensive, and so she puts a cone on him whenever he tries to lick himself...
grasshopper - 16 Sep 2005 20:30 GMT raenee Wrote:
> My grandma's cat is about the same, but he does that to his shoulders. > She took him to the vet and the vet gave him some pills to take. That > seemed to do the trick, but the pills were too expensive, and so she > puts a cone on him whenever he tries to lick himself... PLEASE TELL ME WHAT SHE TAKES TO HELP THE LICKING. I just posted u that my cat is licking her stomach and she won't stop. We've had th cone on for 3 months and I wish we could figure out why. We've take her to the doctor a few times and they don't know why. PLEASE HELP DON"T CARE ABOUT THE COST OF THE PILLS I JUST WANT MY LILLY TO BE OK
-- grasshopper
jmc - 17 Sep 2005 09:05 GMT Suddenly, without warning, grasshopper exclaimed (16-Sep-05 8:30 PM):
> raenee Wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > her to the doctor a few times and they don't know why. PLEASE HELP I > DON"T CARE ABOUT THE COST OF THE PILLS I JUST WANT MY LILLY TO BE OK! Couple of ideas to try: Try a different vet. Try a complimentary medicine vet. Try a pet behaviorist. Try Feliway.
Something's obviously going on there. My guess is it's either allergic (have antihistamines been tried? Change of diet? Change of shampoo if she's washed frequently?) or, more likely, psycological. Try Feliway, it might help if her problem's mental. Take a close look at any stressors in her life, see what you can do to fix them. Another cat who doesn't get along with the licker? A dog? Alone most of the day? A child who won't leave her alone? Not enough attention - being ignored? If you yell at her to stop licking, it'd just make the problem worse.
That's what comes to mind off the top of my head. Good luck!
jmc
grasshopper - 19 Sep 2005 14:17 GMT PLEASE TELL ME WHAT SHE TAKES TO HELP THE LICKING. I just posted up that my cat is licking her stomach and she won't stop. We've had the cone on for 3 months and I wish we could figure out why. We've taken her to the doctor a few times and they don't know why. PLEASE HELP I DON"T CARE ABOUT THE COST OF THE PILLS I JUST WANT MY LILLY TO BE OK!
[/i][/color] Couple of ideas to try: Try a different vet. Try a complimentary medicine vet. Try a pet behaviorist. Try Feliway.
Something's obviously going on there. My guess is it's eithe allergic (have antihistamines been tried? Change of diet? Change of shampo if she's washed frequently?) or, more likely, psycological. Try Feliway, it might help if her problem's mental. Take a close look at any stressors in her life, see what you can do to fix them. Another ca who doesn't get along with the licker? A dog? Alone most of the day? A child who won't leave her alone? Not enough attention - bein ignored? If you yell at her to stop licking, it'd just make the problem worse.
That's what comes to mind off the top of my head. Good luck!
jmc
----->>Thanks for your help..here's an update.. We took her to the vet on Friday and the Vet feels it's mental..state his mother's cat is an exact replica..and does the same thing.
A few things are going on in Lilly's life:
1) She lives with an aggressive sister who hates her for some reason. This cat is miserable. Lilly tried to be her friend and play with he but Willow will growl and hiss, and wants nothing to do with her. Ever time Willow passes Lilly she hisses. Little bitch. We are in th process of finding Willow another home...or putting her down as the Ve suggested. Willow is aggressive as well towards Lilly and humans therefore she's a danger..she needs a home with no other animals or a the vet stated put her down. WE feel this is 95% of the problem...Willo that is.
2) Lilly is the sweetest cat, she is such a lover, and loves being wit us. I don't believe she suffers from separation anxiety, because she' calm and collected when we leave. If we go away on a trip, she get upset and acts strangely when we pull out the suitcase..but that' different. The licking is strange because it happens all hours of th day..she will lick during the day while were not home and in the middl of the night while we are sleeping and she is as well (until sh licks)..I thought it was an itch due to the strange times she licks bu she just received a steroidal shot and it's not helping. I'm leanin towards metal.
She went from 1/2 pill a day.. to..1/2 pill in the morning, 1/2 at nigh of Elivil. We just upped her dose on Friday. I'll discuss Feliway wit the vet.
I feel if we remove the Willow (mean cat), continue the medication an try to remove the stressors in her life..hopefully she will come around. The doctor mentioned Valium for her..but wants to try the higher dose o Elivil first. I just worried about her organs with this medicine. She' an indoor cat and yesterday we let her outside to play in the backyard. We took her cone off and she chased butterflies bugs and bathed in th sun...didn't lick for 45 minutes..untill she started cleaning herself. She seemed happy. I think she's bored as well..so we need to up th excitement...not sure how??
As far as allergies..I haven't ruled that out and were going to start he on either Wellness or Enovia cat food..which has less preservatives an they have a meatless flavor. We are going try this this week. Anothe thing is her cat litter box....not sure if this has anything to do wit it but we had a normal cat litter box and switched to th littermaid...(mechanical litterbox). SO yesterday I switched her back to the normal litter box with norma litter and I'll see if that helps. I just want to help her and I can't and don't know how. It's so frustrating! Dav
-- grasshopper
Topaz - 19 Sep 2005 20:36 GMT > ----->>Thanks for your help..here's an update.. > We took her to the vet on Friday and the Vet feels it's mental..stated [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > the vet stated put her down. WE feel this is 95% of the problem...Willow > that is. Did you raise both kittens? Why do you think Willow is so aggressive? It does sound like Lilly's sister is the source of her anxiety but I am shocked that the vet would suggest having Willow euthanized "just like that." Has the vet seen Willow, and checked for any physical causes of her aggression? What if she is in pain from some disorder that might be easily corrected? Please consider turning Willow over to a no-kill shelter. Feeling as you do it is difficult to imagine you finding her a good home and she does not deserve to be put to death instead of having her aggression addressed and treated.
5cats - 19 Sep 2005 21:02 GMT > 1) She lives with an aggressive sister who hates her for some reason. > This cat is miserable. Lilly tried to be her friend and play with her [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the vet stated put her down. WE feel this is 95% of the problem...Willow > that is. How long have they lived together? Has Willow always been aggressive? I really can't understand a vet suggesting that an animal be put down without looking for the cause of the aggression. I'd be looking for another vet at this point.
grasshopper - 20 Sep 2005 20:56 GMT 5cats Wrote:
> [/i][/color] > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > vet at > this point. Willow and Lilly have been together since kittens. Willow has neve been a loving cat and over time she has developed into a mean cat. He behavior is unacceptable . The reason why the vet has suggested to pu Willow down is due to the danger she poses. She will attack humans and when she's angry she goes for blood. Last time we had the vet loo willow over he had to handle her and she disliked this. She tried t bite his face, and he had to restrain her with 2 hands around her neck At home we know better, then to pick her up, or stop her from doin something...she will attack if we do. The only person that can pick u Willow is my 9 year old. Willow and her are great friends, yet I hat when she picks Willow up it's turns my stomach. Willow has turned o my daughter once about a year ago. She was trying to hug willow an she bite her on the cheek, not hard but enough to make a mark. almost put her down right there but then I took into account a littl girl and envisioned the Loony Toons girl squeezing the cat. She neve bit her again but my daughter knows much better. We came up with plan and that was to try medication and hopefully with medication sh will come around and not be so aggressive. At this point she is stil miserable yet drugged out. It's affecting our family and our other cat We now have to take the next step and remove her from our household. Our vet feels putting her down is the best choice becasue she will no be adotptable due to her agressive nature. She is a risk. We hav looked into a no kill shelter and although money is an issue, I feel can't abandon an animal, I have a responsibility to Willow and I'd pa the $225.00 to keep her alive if she has a chance to get better. have a good feeling she will not get better and will always b agressive therfore keeoping her in a cage for the rest of her life wil be a worse end. I sorry to say but I agree with my Vet. We have made decision to remove her from our household just not exactly what to do
-- grasshopper
5cats - 21 Sep 2005 03:05 GMT > 5cats Wrote: >> [/i][/color] [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > be a worse end. I sorry to say but I agree with my Vet. We have made a > decision to remove her from our household just not exactly what to do. Cats don't become aggressive without a cause. Maybe we don't have the resources to figure it out, but it's there. Could be physical, it could be something in the environment that's stressing her out and making her fearful and aggressive. It's a long shot, but maybe you could find someone willing to give her a chance in a quiet, only cat environment if you agreed to take her back if things didn't work out?
There are no-kill shelters around here that have people who are experienced with working with difficult animals, of course they also have limited time & resources and can't always help everyone.
grasshopper - 21 Sep 2005 14:43 GMT 5cats Wrote:
> a- > decision to remove her from our household just not exactly what t [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > experienced with working with difficult animals, of course they also > have limited time & resources and can't always help everyone. As I said in the beginning Willow has never been loving yet she wasn' aggressive. This is what I feel caused the aggressive nature.
Approx. 2 years ago my wife and I moved out of our town home into cape cod. Our town home was not your typical town house. Typicall town homes are grouped together and there are hundreds, well a privat builder made our TH and it was on a lot with 3 other TH's, so imagin Four 2 story TH’s in a line on a wooded lot. The back was to a far and the front was all wooded. Willow was an indoor cat 100%. When w moved into our cape cod, we moved onto a 1/2 acre in a neighborhood. Almost every family on our block has a cat or two that is an outdoor cat. These cats poop, pee, in our yard and taunt our cats through th window and have even tried to fight our cats through the screen. I our town home, they never saw another cat just birds and lilly an willow. Now there's cats all over. I think this change has prompte Willow to become aggressive and has even turned willow against he sister. We have made Willow a 75% outdoors cat, if she's in the hous she's miserable, fights with lilly,...etc She gets into a lot o fights outside, at least 1 a week and when she fights she gets s upset she will pee herself or even poop during the fight. When sh fights there's no consoling her, we have to put her in a room b herself to calm her down and close the door or she will hurt lilly o one of us. If we try to approach her or pick her up she will growl hissing and attack. Although we didn't do anything to her she makes u the enemy. After 20 minutes in the room we can let her out and she i not a danger, but if she passes Lilly she hisses or growls at her an wants nothing to do with us. We just leave her alone. She basicall uses us to to eat on a daily basis.
That’s what I believe is the cause, your thoughts....thanks for you help as well. It was a very difficult night for us last night. W told our 9 year old we were going to give Willow up for adoption. SH cried for almost an hour straight....unconsolable. WE tried to tel her it was in the best instreast for WIllow but she's 9 she doesn' understand. She's afraid the next owner will hurt her and put her dow becasue she's difficult. I think if we can find a owner who is singl with no other animals willow will be happy and won't be aggresive. W called a program called Animal Welfare in NJ. They are a no kil shelter and luckily taking cats, although there's a fee of $75-$250 t have her cared for
-- grasshopper
papagano - 21 Sep 2005 19:59 GMT grasshopper Wrote:
> As I said in the beginning Willow has never been loving yet she wasn' > aggressive. This is what I feel caused the aggressive nature. [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > shelter and luckily taking cats, although there's a fee of $75-$250 t > have her cared for. I hope you don't mind me jumping in as I just found this board and am still checking it out. I don't think you should get rid of you aggressive kitty. It teaches you daughter that cats are disposable plus you cat is being bullied and upset by outside cats which is no her fault!!! You should keep her inside and get the cats out of you yard and her line of vision. There are ways to cat proof your fence t keep animals out. You can try meds. My cat has always been fine wit other cats in the past, but when I adopted a companion for him h locked on the new kitty like a heat seeking missile and no amount o separation or anything else was working. I'm not going to get rid o the other cat, so the vet said try Clomicalm which he said is good fo mad, upset kitties. He is a 12 pound cat and gets 1/4 of a 20 mg pil once a day. In about two weeks it built up and wokred like a charm. H doesn't attack the other cat any more and he doesn't act drugged u either, although I think he sleeps a bit more. He's his same ol charming self and I have peace in my house again. The vet says to kee him on it for awhile so he gets use to being around the other cat an not fighting and then I'm supposed to start reducing his dose over few weeks time to see if I can take him off completely. You should tr this first because of your little girl and because your kitty is reall upset because of things that aren't her fault and you could change. Yo said she use to be a nice kitty.
 Signature papagano
zuzu22@webtv.net - 22 Sep 2005 00:27 GMT > As I said in the beginning Willow has > never been loving yet she wasn't > aggressive. This is what I feel caused > the aggressive nature. If there is a cause, there is a cure. You have to take responsibility for the situation and do the right thing here, which is not to dump this cat at a shelter and break the heart of your daughter for no good reason.
> Approx. 2 years ago my wife and I moved > out of our town home into a cape cod. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > has even turned willow against her > sister. You are absolutely, 100% correct and, instaed of taking responsibility, here you are willing to abandon your cat and hurt your daughter for something that the cat can't help. Don't you see the cruelty in this decision?
>We have made Willow a 75% > outdoors cat, if she's in the house > she's miserable, fights with > lilly,...etc Which is likely caused by stress from the cats outside taunting her. Look up "redirected aggression". Your situation is a classic example.
>She gets into a lot of > fights outside, at least 1 a week and > when she fights she gets so upset she > will pee herself or even poop during the > fight. Then you shouldn't allow her outside unless she's supervised and no other cats are around. It's clearly stressing her out and putting her in harm's way, not to mention CAUSING the aggression.
>When she fights there's no > consoling her, we have to put her in a [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > and wants nothing to do with us. We just > leave her alone. I don't blame her. Being constantly attacked and having to fight outside, and being met with dislike and derision inside certainly doesn't promote a happy home for her now does it?
>She basically uses us > to to eat on a daily basis. She's not using you. You are neglecting her needs and aren't looking out for her welfare and she is miserable as a result. She still has to eat, though.
> That's what I believe is the cause, your > thoughts....thanks for your help as [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > will hurt her and put her down becasue > she's difficult. Out of the mouths of babes. She's probably right, and you are cruel to do this to your daughter and Willow when taking some simple steps would fix the problem.
>I think if we can > find a owner who is single with no other [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > although there's a fee of $75-$250 to > have her cared for. They have enough problems and cats to care for without having to take on another because you find her inconvenient.
Reading your post makes me very angry because your cat is suffering at your hands and because of your ignorance, and now you are going to torture your daughter over this because you view this cat as disposable.
It does not have to be this way.
Block off access to or cover windows where outside cats can be seen.
Cat proof your yard so the outside cats can't taunt yours. If you don't have a fence, get one. If you do fix it so nothing can get out or in.
Get Feliway diffusers and plug them in in the main areas where Willow spends time.
Do not let her outside unless she's on a harness and leash with you or anothet family member at the other end supervising.
Make any association with the other cat positive. Never yell or get angry if she hisses or growls. Always have kind words for her and be gentle anytime she is near the other cat so she starts to associate her housemate with *good* things. Treats help as does feeding them close to each other.
Consider using medication to calm Willow's aggression and use that time to implement behavior modification using only positive means so her relationship with the other cat becomes more at ease. Two that are commonly used are Prozac (fluoxetine) and Clomipramine (Clomicalm). Since she is so freaked out and stressed from the neglect she's suffered, and based on my experience (I am not a vet) I would start at the higher recommended dose (Fluoxetine -.5 mg per pound, Clomipramine- 5 mg per pound) and decrease after her attitude has been improved and consistent for a minimum of several (4-6) months.
While I do believe that the situation that brought Willow to the point she is at now is a result of mostly ignorance on your part rather than being intentional, the bottom line here is that *you* created this problem and it's not the fault of the cat. Instead of forcing your daughter and her beloved Willow to suffer, you should do everything you have to to correct the situation. It would be the right thing to do and would teach your daughter a valuable lesson about taking responsibility, even when it's hard.
Megan
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grasshopper - 22 Sep 2005 15:56 GMT Let me first say thank you to everyone who has responded eithe positively or negatively..your opinion whether based on facts or not i valid.
I will first respond to Megan then the other posts:
- "If there is a cause there is a cure" -
- That’s absolutely incorrect. I'm medical doctor and although I'm young man and have much room for knowledge I do know a little about ho body's work.
There's not a cure for every cause..or let me restate that there ar answers to causes but not always cures both Psychologically an physiologically. Obviously a virus has no cures, yet not so noticeabl are brain conditions. A brain can reach a point of damage where there' no return. -
- You are absolutely, 100% correct and, instaed of takin responsibility, here you are willing to abandon your cat and hurt your daughter for something that the cat can't help. Don't you see the cruelty in this decision?
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- You have not read my entire post because if you did you would hav realized that I stated "I have a responsibility to this animal and can't just thow it away," that's not what I want to teach my daughter. Your statement is biased and not based on facts. We are doing the bes we can with the situation at hand. I will NOT sacrifice my family’ welfare for this animal. This is an animal, not a human. Willow i dangerous. -
- Then you shouldn't allow her outside unless she's supervised and no other cats are around. It's clearly stressing her out and putting he in harm's way, not to mention CAUSING the aggression. -
- We have to let Willow outside or she will attack Lilly or one of us. Letting a Willow outside 75% of the time is ok...yet as I said she wil get into fights. She starts them too. Recently I've seen cats I hav never seen before...there coming from all over..it's the Ultimat fighting championship in my back yard. The only way to stop this is t remove her form the house. -
- I don't blame her. Being constantly attacked and having to fight outside, and being met with dislike and derision inside certainly doesn't promote a happy home for her now does it? -
- We do not meet her with dislike..she doesn't want anything to do wit us..you can't give a cat attention if it doesn't want it. Willow ha made her bed, and this is what she prefers. She can be nice, but sh chooses not to be. -
- She's not using you. You are neglecting her needs and aren't lookin out for her welfare and she is miserable as a result. She still has t eat, though.
Out of the mouths of babes. She's probably right, and you are cruel to do this to your daughter and Willow when taking some simple step would fix the problem. -
- 1) WE are looking out for Willow's best interest, your just so caugh up in your own BS you CAN'T SEE IT. Willow is not happy..we have trie medicine, letting her do what ever she wants...but she has not turne around. The best solution is to remove her form the situation so sh can be happy. you also forget Willow is a danger and I can not have dangerous animal in our house. I not throwing her away or showing m daughter this...what I'm teaching my daughter and showing her is tha my daughter means much more then this animal and my families welfare i important..even if it takes removing a loved animal. -
-
They have enough problems and cats to care for without having to tak on another because you find her inconvenient.
Reading your post makes me very angry because your cat is suffering at your hands and because of your ignorance, and now you are going to torture your daughter over this because you view this cat a disposable.
It does not have to be this way. ..blah ...blah ...blah
While I do believe that the situation that brought Willow to the point she is at now is a result of mostly ignorance on your part rather than being intentional, the bottom line here is that *you* created this problem and it's not the fault of the cat. Instead of forcing your daughter and her beloved Willow to suffer, you should do everythin you have to to correct the situation. It would be the right thing to do and would teach your daughter a valuable lesson about taking responsibility, even when it's hard. -
-
You forget we have another cat that is suffering because of willow. How is spending hundreds of dollars on medicines, blood tests, vet appointments neglecting her. I will not let this animal rule our life and turn our house upside down so she won't see another cat outside. Theres a point that we draw the line, and we have drawn it. You also forget this animal is a danger and all it takes is willow biting a child and we are sued for everything we have. THAT IS NOT IN MY CHILDS BEST INTEREST OR MY FAMILIES. So a little crying on my daughter’s part can put her through college and offer much more later down the line. It's absolutely sad that you would protect an animal over a child...your priorities or out of wack and teaching my daughter responsibility is making the right decisions even if it hurts, not making the wrong decision so she feels better. I hope to god you don’t have children. You stated I started and created this problem and again your insane and an idiot!!!....I'm going to do what's best for my family and if moving into a nice neighborhood which offers my child a wonderful neighborhood to play in that safe, as well as provide my wife with a home she's happy with....and if my cat doesn't like who give a F**K. It's an animal and my life isn't ruled by this animal. If she doesn't like it..thanks Willow and GOODBYE! Medicine...we have tried Elivil and she can't take a lot of medicine due to her liver and kidneys.
Whew..not to move on to the next post - -
Oh my gosh, these are classic symptoms of parasites like giardia or cryptosporidium. CLASSIC. And they will turn a cat mean. Please find a good vet or just tell the dumba** vet to test for parasites. If the idiot says it's not necessary because the cat is indoors, inform him that these parasites can come from even a municipal chlorinated water supply.
This is just awful to read about your cat, her aggression, thinking of putting her down because of typical incompetence by vets who, many, are regarded as competent.
PARASITES, okay? Easy easy easy to cure.
Whew. -
-
It's very interesting you stated this..becasue our other cat..has licked her stomach clear of hair due to a behavior response of Willow. We thought at first Lilly's licking was an allergy or giardia but almost ruled that out completely when she did not respond to the steroidal treatment. AS far as willow is concerned and having a parasite...I find it unlikely due to her symptoms..there are none. Symptoms of giardia or other parasites are a swollen lip/mouth, skin irritations ..etc...she is 100% healthy besides her behavior. -
- I hope you don't mind me jumping in as I just found this board and am still checking it out. I don't think you should get rid of your aggressive kitty. It teaches you daughter that cats are disposable, plus you cat is being bullied and upset by outside cats which is not her fault!!! You should keep her inside and get the cats out of your yard and her line of vision. There are ways to cat proof your fence to keep animals out. You can try meds. My cat has always been fine with other cats in the past, but when I adopted a companion for him he locked on the new kitty like a heat seeking missile and no amount of separation or anything else was working. I'm not going to get rid of the other cat, so the vet said try Clomicalm which he said is good for mad, upset kitties. He is a 12 pound cat and gets 1/4 of a 20 mg pill once a day. In about two weeks it built up and wokred like a charm. He doesn't attack the other cat any more and he doesn't act drugged up either, although I think he sleeps a bit more. He's his same old charming self and I have peace in my house again. The vet says to keep him on it for awhile so he gets use to being around the other cat and not fighting and then I'm supposed to start reducing his dose over a few weeks time to see if I can take him off completely. You should try this first because of your little girl and because your kitty is really upset because of things that aren't her fault and you could change. You said she use to be a nice kitty.
-
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Thanks for your response but I've answered most of it previously. Right now Willow is on Elivil and she's somewhat responded...but I believe that's because she's drugged out... I hate to see her like that so I cut back her medicine. Elivil for those that don't know is an anti-depressant that was used in humans decades ago. It was a very popular drug yet discontinued because of it wasn't effective. Animals on the other hand have a better reaction. Elivil is also used in humans for neurological conditions today
treeline12345@yahoo.com - 22 Sep 2005 19:48 GMT I wrote, not grasshopper:
> Oh my gosh, these are classic symptoms of parasites like giardia or > cryptosporidium. CLASSIC. And they will turn a cat mean. Please find a [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Whew. Someone wrote this, maybe grasshopper, maybe his zen cricket:
> It's very interesting you stated this..becasue our other cat..has > licked her stomach clear of hair due to a behavior response of Willow. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > giardia or other parasites are a swollen lip/mouth, skin irritations > ...etc...she is 100% healthy besides her behavior. You must be a troll. Even if you are quack, most quacks are not so incompetent to give steroids when antiobiotics will cure the parasites.
You're not really a doctor but some teenaged kid I gather.
All you people out there. ANTIBIOTICS for parasites. Tell your vets. It's okay I emailed the original poster.
By the way, d00d, antibiotics <> steroids. Okay?
Are you really a doctor who gave steroids for parasites? What type of doctor are you? A homeopath? Even MD's are not this bad and they are bad.
5cats - 22 Sep 2005 20:34 GMT > Willow has > made her bed, and this is what she prefers. She can be nice, but she > chooses not to be. Cats do not have the same brain capacity that people have to choose how they behave. They can only resond to their environment in the way they are geneticaly programmed to respond.
treeline12345@yahoo.com - 23 Sep 2005 00:13 GMT > Cats do not have the same brain capacity that people have to choose how > they behave. They can only resond to their environment in the way they are > geneticaly programmed to respond. Yes, I have read that their frontal lobes are not quite as developed as ours, well, maybe yours, I'm not so sure about mine ;)
Generally their neurophysiology is remarkably similar to we non-furry bipeds. That can be very dangerous for them as possible lab rats. For the record, they vibrate usually around 14 Hz, and we humans are a bit lower. Hence they are running on a faster circuit!!!
Of course, between a smart cat and a rather challeneged obsessing compulsive, it's difficult to say who has the better meow.
zuzu22@webtv.net - 23 Sep 2005 01:22 GMT > That's absolutely incorrect. In this case, no it's not. I'm tallking about a behavior created by circumstance, which is exactly what is going on with your cat. Change the circumstances and you can modify the behavior.
> You have not read my entire post because > if you did you would have realized that [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > and not based on facts. We are doing the > best we can with the situation at hand. I did read your entire post and you are indeed throwing her away and by no means doing what's best for her, as you state clearly below.
> I will NOT sacrifice my family's welfare > for this animal. This is an animal, not > a human. Willow is dangerous. Because of circumstances you created and have the power to change.
> We have to let Willow outside or she > will attack Lilly or one of us. Letting [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > way to stop this is to remove her form > the house. That's not true. You can cat proof your yard or keep Willow inside and allow her out on supervised outings. Don't blame Willow for your laziness and unwillingness to do anything for her that requires effort.
> We do not meet her with dislike..she > doesn't want anything to do with us..you > can't give a cat attention if it doesn't > want it. Willow has made her bed, and > this is what she prefers. She can be > nice, but she chooses not to be. No, she's so stressed out from the trauma she constantly endures that it doesn't leave room for anything else. And don't think she doesn't pick up on your true feelings about her. You've already discussed killing her and plan to abandon her. You've written her off and she can sense it.
> 1) WE are looking out for Willow's best > interest, your just so caught up in your > own BS you CAN'T SEE IT. Willow is not > happy..we have tried medicine, You're not using the right one. Elavil is a poor choice for treating aggression and the drugs I mentioned in my previous post work better. As to your claim she can't be on much because of some liver/kidney issue, don't assume we're stupid here. Elavil is also contraindicated, but it didn't stop you from using it. If you are telling the truth (and I don't believe you are) and you're using meds anyway, for god's sake try using one that will actually help.
>letting > her do what ever she wants...but she has > not turned around. She has not turned around because of your failure to change the circumstances so she isn't in a position to suffer so much stress and chaos in her life. I gave you steps to a soution. If you choose to ignore them it just proves my assertion that you would rather be lazy and cause your daughter and Willow to suffer.
>The best solution is > to remove her form the situation so she > can be happy. you also forget Willow is > a danger and I can not have a dangerous > animal in our house. I not throwing her > away or showing my daughter this... I don't believe that she's so "dangerous." If she was your daughter wouldn't be in the emotional state she is in and begging you to keep Willow. You're lying and it comes across loud and clear.
>what > I'm teaching my daughter and showing her > is that my daughter means much more then > this animal and my families welfare is > important..even if it takes removing a > loved animal. No you're not. I wonder how your daughter would feel if she saw how you're ignoring valuable and experienced advice that could modify Willow's behavior and help her to stay in the home? She'd know exactly where you stand and see the ugly truth that this IS a matter of convenience for you and you don't give a damn about breaking your daughter's heart.
> You forget we have another cat that is > suffering because of willow. Not at all, and changing the circumstances that are causing Willow to behave the way she is will improve her behavior and be good for the other cat.
>How is > spending hundreds of dollars on > medicines, blood tests, vet appointments > neglecting her. Because you're ignoring basic principles of cat behavior, and behavior is the issue here. Because you have the solution staring you in the face and you refuse to acknowledge it because it would take effort.
>I will not let this > animal rule our life and turn our house > upside down so she won't see another cat > outside. So, it IS about convenience. Your exaggeration is noted.
>Theres a point that we draw the > line, and we have drawn it. You also > forget this animal is a danger and all > it takes is willow biting a child and we > are sued for everything we have. As you should be if you left a child unsupervised with a dangerous cat. Yet your daughter loves her and can handle her. You're lying.
>You stated I > started and created this problem and > again your insane and an idiot!!! Not at all. I'm correct and anyone with knowledge of cat behavior and intercat dynamics would agree with me.
>....I'm > going to do what's best for my family [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > animal and my life isn't ruled by this > animal. So the truth comes out. Willow is disposable. I was right all along and you are victimizing Willow and your daughter for no other reason than that you are selfish and lazy.
I certainly hope that the ethics you practice in medicine are nothing like those you practice at home. If they are you can kiss your daughter's college education (and any hope of continuing to be a doctor) goodbye.
Megan
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
-Edmund Burke
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"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way."
- W.H. Murray
cybercat - 23 Sep 2005 03:57 GMT > I don't believe that she's so "dangerous." If she was your daughter > wouldn't be in the emotional state she is in and begging you to keep [quoted text clipped - 74 lines] > > Megan Is this supposed to be persuasion? The OP originally planned to put the cat down. A no-kill shelter is a better option. Or, perhaps someone with some actual persuasive skills might try to talk to her. But you are not doing a bit of good with your rabid dog routine. Of course you know that.
grasshopper - 23 Sep 2005 18:35 GMT Megan,
Well how about this..if you feel so strongly and so knowledgeable i animal behavior..you can adopt her. I would be happy to pay for th shipping...and any other costs associated in getting her to yo safely.
Also..some behavior is not reversible as you stated...a change o circumstances or routine will not make everything ok. I don't kno exactly what caused this unfortunate incident but I am almost sure thi incident was not only caused by a chemical imbalance of some sort, bu also the change of homes and other animals in the neighborhood. Thes two issues together have created an uncontrollable cat. You stated w are utilizing the wrong drug, and in my post I stated Willows Kidne function would not allow a medicine such as Prozac or other chemicals. To put her on a drug like this would cause her kidneys to quite an possibly her liver. So putting her on a drug like this would kill her So now what....you can't medicate the animal to control it's behavior it's behavior is not only disturbing our family but our other cat a well..which I have an update below...and all you can do is remove thi animal from the residence and hope for a better life for her and us.
AS far as lilly...since we have not allow Willow in the house the pas few days (3 to be exact) and lilly has not come into contact wit Willow she has stopped licking and has returned to her normal self. She's a sweet as pie. I didn't think it would happen this quick an have her come around like this. This it's a great example how willow' mean spirit has hurt us all, and how removing her from the house ha created a better environment for our other animal. She is the proble not us as you state Just look at the statistics...4 to 1
-- grasshopper
cybercat - 23 Sep 2005 19:37 GMT > Megan, > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > created a better environment for our other animal. She is the problem > not us as you state Just look at the statistics...4 to 1. And here we have it--exactly what I new from your first post. You do not care about this cat, and neither Megan's browbeating nor anything else can MAKE you care about Willow. That's just the way it is--it is the same with people, we care enough to help some but not others.
Just please don't have her euthanized, take her to a no-kill shelter with a full explanation of'what has been done to her to make her aggressive. Perhaps someone there will care enough to try to undo the damage you have done to her--albeit without meaning to.
She deserves a chance to live. The circumstances of her birth and upbringing were not her fault, after all.
zuzu22@webtv.net - 24 Sep 2005 22:20 GMT > Megan, > Well how about this..if you feel so [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > other costs associated in getting her to > you safely. Here you are again expecting someone else to fix the mess you made. It's so much easier for you than taking responsibility...
> Also..some behavior is not reversible as > you stated...a change of circumstances > or routine will not make everything ok. > I don't know exactly what caused this > unfortunate incident You know exactly what caused it and it was spelled out to you in a previous post. Backpedaling at this point doesn't buy you any credibility.
>but I am almost > sure this incident was not only caused [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > issues together have created an > uncontrollable cat. And I gave you the means to correct the problem.
>You stated we are > utilizing the wrong drug, and in my post [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > quite and possibly her liver. So putting > her on a drug like this would kill her. B.S. You're lying and it's oh-so-convenient for you to claim supposed liver/kidney issue after the fact. It sure didn't stop you from putting her on a medication that is also contraindicated, so stop making a fool of yourself with your lame lies.
> So now what....you can't medicate the > animal to control it's behavior, it's [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > residence and hope for a better life for > her and us. Again, I gave you the means to correct the problem, much of which does not involve medications and only involves simple steps to eliminate the outside influences that created Willow's behavior in the first place.
> AS far as lilly...since we have not > allow Willow in the house the past few [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > didn't think it would happen this quick > and have her come around like this. Isn't it funny how a change of circumstances or routine made everything ok? And quickly too. How about that, especially when you said it couldn't be done a few paragraphs ago. The same could be done for Willow if you weren't so lazy and heartless.
>This > it's a great example how willow's mean > spirit has hurt us all, and how removing > her from the house has created a better > environment for our other animal. She is > the problem not us as you state You're wrong. YOU are the problem and YOU have forced Willow to become the way she is because of your ignorance and insistence on forcing her to be in a stressful and harmful environment, one that could be modified to eliminate the stress and harm if you had a heart. I bet if your daughter was made aware of what was needed she would try anything and try to do it all herself if she had to, even at 9 years old. She obviously cares deeply about Willow and seems to be the only one in your household with a heart. Hopefully she'll be immune to your unconscionably irresponsible and cold hearted influences and grow up to be a decent human being in spite of you.
>Just > look at the statistics...4 to 1. Gang mentality is not a statistic.
Megan
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
-Edmund Burke
Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com
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"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way."
- W.H. Murray
-L. - 25 Sep 2005 02:12 GMT > Megan, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Also..some behavior is not reversible as you stated...a change of > circumstances or routine will not make everything ok. Sometimes it does.
> I don't know > exactly what caused this unfortunate incident Megan spelled it out. YOU created it. YOU just don't want to accept the responsibility.
> but I am almost sure this > incident was not only caused by a chemical imbalance of some sort, but [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > To put her on a drug like this would cause her kidneys to quite and > possibly her liver. So putting her on a drug like this would kill her. Prozac isn't know to be excessively hard on organ function - certainly not any more so than Elavil.
> So now what....you can't medicate the animal to control it's behavior, > it's behavior is not only disturbing our family but our other cat as [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > have her come around like this. This it's a great example how willow's > mean spirit has hurt us all, A cat is incapable of having a "mean spirit". They function on instinct. You have created her behavior.
>and how removing her from the house has > created a better environment for our other animal. She is the problem > not us as you state Just look at the statistics...4 to 1. Do the cat a favor and take it to a shelter where it has a chance at a better life. And please do not get any more animals until you understand animal behavior a little better. Your ignorance and inappropriate actions toward and with the cat have created this situation.
[Sheesh. It's people like this that make me want to quit rescue, quit working in the field. Mess up an animal's life and then blame the animal. I've seen it far too many times, and it disgusts me every, single time...]
-L.
cybercat - 25 Sep 2005 03:07 GMT > > Megan, > > [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > > -L. Nicely put, Lyn.
-L. - 25 Sep 2005 07:01 GMT > Nicely put, Lyn. Thank you, Nancy.
-L.
Charlie Wilkes - 25 Sep 2005 10:57 GMT >This it's a great example how willow's >mean spirit has hurt us all, and how removing her from the house has >created a better environment for our other animal. She is the problem >not us as you state Just look at the statistics...4 to 1. It sounds like you are angry at this animal, which is not the best emotional framework for a sound decision. My opinion is, if your daughter likes the cat, you better hang onto it. She's gonna be a teenager in four years. You want to be her hero now, so she'll listen to you then. Figure out a way to keep both cats happy and separate. You can do it.
Charlie
zuzu22@webtv.net - 25 Sep 2005 07:07 GMT I wrote:
>Fluoxetine -.5 mg per pound, >Clomipramine- 5 mg per pound There was a typo wrt the clomipramine dose and it should read:
Fluoxetine -.5 mg per pound, Clomipramine- ***.5***mg per pound.
Megan
 Signature
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
-Edmund Burke
Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com
Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22
"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way."
- W.H. Murray
Rhonda - 25 Sep 2005 06:21 GMT In June when you posted about the problem with Willow, you mentioned the biting the vet's face incident. The next time you took her to the vet, you said she was purring and was the perfect cat with him.
Did Willow go back since then and try to bite his face again? It sounded to me like things were better at the vet's.
I think you should try Megan's suggestions, the different drugs that she mentioned to you in June, and now. The behavioral things you can try. It does not sound like this cat is a threat to your daughter.
I know you've tried several things already, but try the things Megan mentioned. Show your daughter by your actions that every life is precious. Keeping the cat outside is only avoiding the issue and making her more miserable, and probably more aggressive.
Good luck,
Rhonda
> Last time we had the vet look > willow over he had to handle her and she disliked this. She tried to > bite his face, and he had to restrain her with 2 hands around her neck. treeline12345@yahoo.com - 21 Sep 2005 23:01 GMT > PLEASE TELL ME WHAT SHE TAKES TO HELP THE LICKING. I just posted up > that my cat is licking her stomach and she won't stop. We've had the > cone on for 3 months and I wish we could figure out why. We've taken > her to the doctor a few times and they don't know why. PLEASE HELP I > DON"T CARE ABOUT THE COST OF THE PILLS I JUST WANT MY LILLY TO BE OK! Oh my gosh, these are classic symptoms of parasites like giardia or cryptosporidium. CLASSIC. And they will trun a cat mean. Please find a good vet or just tell the dumbass vet to test for parasites. If the idiot says it's not necessary because the cat is indoors, inform him that these parasites can come from even a municipal chlorinated water supply.
This is just awful to read about your cat, her aggression, thinking of putting her down because of typical incompetence by vets who, many, are regarded as competent.
PARASITES, okay? Easy easy easy to cure.
Whew.
IBen Getiner - 27 Sep 2005 08:23 GMT > raenee Wrote: > > My grandma's cat is about the same, but he does that to his shoulders. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > -- > grasshopper Are you petting her down the spine? Because if you are, you should be aware of the fact that cats will do their dead-level best to get your human scent off their person (is that the proper word?) and at all cost. They must at all times have a fresh coat of dried saliva covering every square inch of their furry little bodies (this is what is known as cat dander, by the way ... the peeling off of their dried saliva that gets inhaled by you, the allergy sufferer). Our little boy groomed himself incessantly and at first, we assumed he needed our help in bathing, so we instituted a severe bathing regiment. We even tried an Elizabethan collar, but to no avail. It only made things worse. We have since learned that the constant process of covering themselves with a coat of their own saliva is a kat's way of loving himself. If you don't want them to lick as much, then you must not pet. At least, not without having non-latex 100 percent cotton gloves on.
IBen
5cats - 27 Sep 2005 14:04 GMT > Are you petting her down the spine? Because if you are, you should be > aware of the fact that cats will do their dead-level best to get your [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > IBen I guess I must smell better than you do, since none of my cats has ever shown a desire to groom excessively after I pet them or after sitting on my lap.
Diane - 27 Sep 2005 14:14 GMT > I guess I must smell better than you do, since none of my cats has ever > shown a desire to groom excessively after I pet them or after sitting on > my lap. Ditto. What a theory, though!
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grasshopper - 27 Sep 2005 17:44 GMT Ok here'a an update...
I have contacted Animal Welfare and they will be taking Willow int their adoption facility. They are well known for great treatment an they have a no kill policy. They have already found Willow an owne ..we just need to surrender her.
Dave
Thanks for your help everyone
I ben...thanks for your questions here's the answer...
Lilly is such a lover and follows me everywhere, I have never had a ca like this..she's the best! She actually climbs under the sheets a night and turns around so her head is sticking out of the covers lik us and sleeps so I have my chest to her back. ....The point I'm tryin to get to is I don't think she cares about my scent. She does it to m wife too. The licking we are experiencing is a behavioral response t Willow. Every since we removed willow she has been licking less an less. Hair is actually growing back.
Dav
-- grasshopper
Candace - 28 Sep 2005 07:49 GMT > Ok here'a an update... > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Dave If you're telling the truth, then I'm sure it's best for Willow to be able to be away from people who don't care about her. I hope it is really a no-kill facility and you're not just yanking our chain. I wish Willow the very best and hope she will one day have a very happy life with someone who gives a crap about her.
Candace
grasshopper - 28 Sep 2005 14:31 GMT Candace Wrote:
> Ok here'a an update... > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Candace - Boy am I tired of most of you people....If I didn't care fo thi animal...I would have put her down and buried her in the back yard. would have not given her a chance nor pay 275 dollars to keep her aliv til she is adopted. We want the best for Willow and unfortunately it' not with us. This adoption facility is a good one and will guarante Willow will either be adopted or live till she dies of natural causes. Even the owner has to sign a no kill contract stating that if for som reason Willow gets hurt and needs emergency care, and he doesn't wan to pay for it, (risking her life) or just doesn't want Willo anymore.....he has to surender her to the welfare program. It ensure a good life for Willow. I don't understand why you can't see out o the box. If Willow is miserable and a new owner can offer a much nice environment, they why is that "not caring for this animal" I'm offerin her a better life. The fact that I drew a line on how far we will go i a boundry I have made, and life is full of boundries.
-- grasshopper
Candace - 29 Sep 2005 07:03 GMT > I don't understand why you can't see out of > the box. If Willow is miserable and a new owner can offer a much nicer > environment, they why is that "not caring for this animal" I'm offering > her a better life. The fact that I drew a line on how far we will go is > a boundry I have made, and life is full of boundries. Yeah, it's *I* who can't see outside the box. I *said* it's good Willow is going somewhere where people will love and care for her. Good for her. I hope she has a wonderful life.
Candace
grasshopper - 30 Sep 2005 19:00 GMT Candace Wrote:
> - > I don't understand why you can't see out of [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Candace How dare you state I don't care about this animal. I do that's why I' taking the necessary step to make sure she has a nice and happy life
-- grasshopper
SexySoxy - 01 Oct 2005 03:30 GMT > > Yeah, it's *I* who can't see outside the box. I *said* it's good > > Willow is going somewhere where people will love and care for her. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > How dare you state I don't care about this animal. I do that's why I'm > taking the necessary step to make sure she has a nice and happy life. Fine, that's swell. Why don't you get on with it then instead of just shutting her outside your house? Let her go on to a happier chapter in her life.
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