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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / February 2005Unbelievable!! I'vge finally "won" the battle!
Or rather, Floppy has let me win. The kittens will be 5 this April. Very early on Floppy decided he'd only eat dry food. The other 2 and mom are fine with wet or dry, but I've been forced to feed them all dry for the past 4 years because Floppy refused the wet. I've tried all of the tricks over the years, including fasting, and Floppy always called my bluff at the 48 hour mark when I became afraid of inducing Lipidosis. Well, last night I decided to try again. At their regular feeding time, 2AM, instead of the automatic feeder going off full of dry, I was awake to give them a can of Wellness Chicken, one of the brands "cleared" by Phil P. Not surprisingly, Floppy turned it down and I was pretty much set to fail again. I talked to a vet before starting yesterday, and she told me because of his weight, 48 hours would be unsafe to fast, and I should go no longer than 24 hours. If he didn't eat, I was to give him VERY small amounts of Wellness dry to maintain calorie intake and hunger at the same time. Well, 9 hours into it, I gave the others a little more wet as a snack, which got Floppy wanting food. I presented him with the wet and he predictably turned his nose up at it. I then decided I'd try the heating approach again, and nuked it to warm it up. This time, unlike all the other times, he actually sniffed it with interest without recoiling with revulsion, but wouldn't eat it. I was stoked, so I decided to try the tuna juice again, and poured some on there and nuked it again. This time he actually got his face in there and licked around the mound of food, licking up the tuna juice. Wow! I was amazed! So I kept at it, re-warming the food and putting it back in front of him when it cooled off to re-interest him, and he continued to lick around the food. Then, I poured a bit of juice around the food again, and poured some OVER the food as well, and nuked it. He licked around the food again, and then began licking the juice off the food! Then the miracle happened -- he began licking the food when the juice was gone, and slowly licked it up -- over the course of 45 minutes and numerous re-heating's -- about a tablespoon of food altogether! Then, I fed the others at 2PM, and Floppy sniffed at it and walked away. About an hour later I put a little more food (about a teaspoon) in his dish and nuked it, but this time didn't add tuna juice. He went to town on it! Then at about 4 he came looking for more, so I put about 2 tablespoons, right out of the fridge in the bowl and put it down. Know what? He ate the whole freakin' thing, just like a normal cat!! I'm so proud of him, and told him so as he ate!! I hope this continues, because I'm really worried about keeping them on a dry only diet. Having all of them eating canned will really make things simpler in the long run. I'm now going to buy the other canned varieties that Phil mentioned -- Hill's Turkey and Wysong Chicken, to have a backup if Wellness goes to hell. eq > I hope this continues, because I'm really worried about keeping them on > a dry only diet. Having all of them eating canned will really make > things simpler in the long run. I'm now going to buy the other canned > varieties that Phil mentioned -- Hill's Turkey and Wysong Chicken, to > have a backup if Wellness goes to hell. Hodge eats a canned breakfast and a dry dinner. Too much canned -- he gets diarrhea. Too much dry -- he gets constipated. His picky little guts.  Signaturehttp://www.slywy.com/ > Or rather, Floppy has let me win. > [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > eq Great job. I may have to work on Sugar again. <SNIP> >Great job. I may have to work on Sugar again. There's apparently one small hurdle left. I came home from skiing tonite and gave the cats some Wellness on a plate, spread out so they can all eat at the same time, a little trick learned as a shelter volunteer using trays. Floppy wouldn't touch it. But as soon as I put it in his own dish (he eats dry out of the community bowl), nuked it and called it "chicken", he went at it like before. Then I added cold food and he kept chowing down. Then I led him over to the community plate with the exact same food on it, and he scoffed at it! eq > Or rather, Floppy has let me win. > [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > eq Congratualtions to you and the Flopster too! I don't imagine I need to tell you what a total catslave you really are, do I? 8) <SNIP> >Congratualtions to you and the Flopster too! I don't imagine I need to >tell you what a total catslave you really are, do I? 8) You don't know the half of it..... eq Hi if he stops eating the wet food again try mixing dry food in with it, by the way why don't you want to feed him dry all the time ,one of my cats only gets dry all the time that all she cat eat,wet food gives her the poops Linda > Or rather, Floppy has let me win. > [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > eq >Hi >if he stops eating the wet food again try mixing dry food in with it, by >the way why don't you want to feed him dry all >the time ,one of my cats only gets dry all the time that all >she cat eat,wet food gives her the poops >Linda Hi I want the ability to give him/them any food I can. Later in life it may be critical that they eat wet food as part of a special diet (good forbid). Also, I'm having trouble controlling their weight on dry only. These are big cats as it is, and the biggest are 19 and 20 pounds, and the smallest is 14. Between them all, they get 2 cups of dry a day and still aren't losing weight. Being able to feed canned will enable me to get rid of excessive carbs from their diet. There's also the risk of male cats blocking from dry food use. Ultimately, I want to give them 1 dry meal and one canned meal a day after I get the weight thing under control. >> Or rather, Floppy has let me win. >> [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] >> >> eq > Or rather, Floppy has let me win. > [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > tablespoons, right out of the fridge in the bowl and put it down. Know > what? He ate the whole freakin' thing, just like a normal cat!! He ate cold food? That's really amazing! I'm so > proud of him, and told him so as he ate!! You should be proud of yourself, too, for having the perseverance, patience, and dedication to keep trying. I am. Many people try a few times and give up. I hope your success inspires others to keep trying. > I hope this continues, because I'm really worried about keeping them on > a dry only diet. Having all of them eating canned will really make > things simpler in the long run. I'm now going to buy the other canned > varieties that Phil mentioned -- Hill's Turkey and Wysong Chicken, to > have a backup if Wellness goes to hell. I wish Royal Canin Mature 28 was available in a canned version. Low phosphorus and very low acidity + omega 3 - it would be an ideal reno-protective diet if the same formulation came in cans. I've used this food for renal cats who wouldn't eat or didn't do well on k/d. I whipped up a canned diet out of it by grinding some up in my Kitchenaide and mixing in pure chicken broth. Its also very easy to spike the potassium and N3s a bit in the mix. Another renoprotective diet is Hill's Prescription x/d. I feed that to all early to midstage renal cats. These cats seemed to deterioate on k/d because the protein content is too low for eary/midstage renal cats. You wouldn't believe the turnaround some renal cats made on c/d-ox (now x/d)! It contanis enough protein (41%) to feed to normal adults. Older cats are more prone to CaOx crystals than struvite, so, Mature 28 and x/d are ideal CaOx-protective diets as well. CaOx crystals are a real danger because they can't be medically dissolved like struvite. It seems like the increase in CRF coincides with shortly after the advent of acidified 'urinary tract health' diets - so has the increase in CaOx crystals. I think that acidity might play a large roll - over the longterm (which hasn't been studied) in the development of CRF. Ferals, before management, feed ad libitum - 8-12 or more mice a day, yet don't have struvite or CaOx problems, and the ones that manage to survive to 8-10 years don't have any evidence of early CRF, diabetes or hyperthyroidism. The few that die of renal/hepatic failure do so from ingestion of antifreeze or some other reno/hepato-toxic substance (e.g., poisoned mice). Something to think about. Anyway, Well Done! Phil <SNIP> >> Then, I fed the others at 2PM, and Floppy sniffed at it and walked away. >> About an hour later I put a little more food (about a teaspoon) in his [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >and dedication to keep trying. I am. Many people try a few times and give >up. I hope your success inspires others to keep trying. I don't know if I can really take any credit for it. I don't even remember the last time I tried switching him, but it was more than a year ago. I sort of decided spur of the moment to give it another try, perhaps boosted by the recent threads on here dealing with dry food issues. The real credit goes to Floppy, and the way his cat mind works. I didn't do anything different than all the other times I've tried over the years, he just out of the blue started accepting canned food. OK, the only thing different this time was that I'm feeding him Wellness chicken. Previously the only way to get him to eat wet food was to boil chicken breast for exactly 10 minutes, and carefully shred it with 2 forks. That and canned tuna (but he wouldn't touch tuna cat food). So, either this Wellness truly IS really good high quality chicken, or it's the equivalent of Fancy Feast (cat McDonald's). The next test will be trying to get him to eat other high quality brands. If I'd used Wellness a year ago, would I have been successful? Who knows. This morning I had several more breakthroughs. The first, I scooped a tablespoon of cold right into his dish from the can an put it up on the table. I told him he was getting chicken and he meowed excitedly and jumped on the kitchen table where I've been feeding him to keep the other cats away. He sniffed it and started to walk away. I was about to nuke it, but just kept telling him it was chicken, and made "yum yum" sounds. He kept coming back and sniffing a few times while I kept that up, and then went to town on it. Then, when I wasn't looking one of the other cats jumped up and started eating out of the bowl. Floppy didn't walk away, but began sharing the bowl and they finished it. Then, hopefully the big one. I filled up the auto feeder with a can of wet and put the ice pack in the bottom of it and set it for 2PM. They're pretty much conditioned now to come running at the sound of the lids popping open, so I wanted to see if I could get him to start on his normal feeding routine. But, when the other 3 went into the enclosure, I decided to try an intermediate step. I was making coffee, and that always brings Floppy into the kitchen to make me pay the "milk tax". So, while I had him there alone, I asked him if he wanted chicken while I was getting milk out of the fridge, which brought excited chirps. So, I popped one of the covers of the feeder. He sniffed and started to walk away. I made the "yum yum" sounds, and he sniffed one and went at it. He didn't stop until he cleaned the entire tray out, and pretty much forgot about his beloved milk while I was making the coffee! So now, the only thing that remains is for him to come running and start eating on his own when the feeder pops. But, at least I no longer have to worry about fasting him to get him to eat. eq >> I hope this continues, because I'm really worried about keeping them on >> a dry only diet. Having all of them eating canned will really make [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > >Phil > <SNIP> > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > perhaps boosted by the recent threads on here dealing with dry food > issues. The point is... you tried *again* and didn't give up. Now shut up about it and accept the 'well done' - you deserve it! ;-> The real credit goes to Floppy, and the way his cat mind works. > I didn't do anything different than all the other times I've tried over > the years, he just out of the blue started accepting canned food. OK, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > trying to get him to eat other high quality brands. If I'd used Wellness > a year ago, would I have been successful? Who knows. It would have been interesting if he refused Wellness in the past but accepted it now. That might have suggested a change in formulation. OTOH, its not unusual for a cat to go off a routine food and accept a novel one. What's particulary interesting is that he suddenly accepted a different texture. Texture preferences are very strongly influenced by the type of food a cat was weaned on. Most shelters feed cats and kittens dry food due to cost and labor limitations. That's why its so hard to switch cats to canned food. > This morning I had several more breakthroughs. The first, I scooped a > tablespoon of cold right into his dish from the can an put it up on the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > other cats jumped up and started eating out of the bowl. Floppy didn't > walk away, but began sharing the bowl and they finished it. One of my cats won't eat around my other cats, so, I have to feed her separately in her 'special' place where my other cats can't get to her. I think she was traumatized by other cats while eating in one of former homes. Cats that had to compete for food are either fast eaters and/or gluttonous, or they wait for the other cats to eat and leave before they'll eat. > Then, hopefully the big one. I filled up the auto feeder with a can of > wet and put the ice pack in the bottom of it and set it for 2PM. They're [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > eating on his own when the feeder pops. But, at least I no longer have > to worry about fasting him to get him to eat. It sure sounds like he's well on the way to a complete transition! You might want to keep the dry food outta sight for awhile so he doesn't have a 'relapse". Hopefully, your success will inspire others who are having difficulty switching their cats over to canned to keep trying. Whether you think so or not: *well done*! Phil. > One of my cats won't eat around my other cats, so, I have to feed her > separately in her 'special' place where my other cats can't get to her. I > think she was traumatized by other cats while eating in one of former homes. > Cats that had to compete for food are either fast eaters and/or gluttonous, > or they wait for the other cats to eat and leave before they'll eat. My friend had three cats she had trained to take turns. Honest. It was bizarre. No. 1 would eat first out of her bowl. No. 2 would wait and then eat out of hers. Same with 3. There should have been video. Signaturehttp://www.slywy.com/ >> One of my cats won't eat around my other cats, so, I have to feed her >> separately in her 'special' place where my other cats can't get to her. I [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >bizarre. No. 1 would eat first out of her bowl. No. 2 would wait and >then eat out of hers. Same with 3. There should have been video. Mine do that, but no training was involve. They just eat that way when space is limited. > > One of my cats won't eat around my other cats, so, I have to feed her > > separately in her 'special' place where my other cats can't get to her. I [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > bizarre. No. 1 would eat first out of her bowl. No. 2 would wait and > then eat out of hers. Same with 3. There should have been video. I used to use a big round candy dish with 5 glass inserts; I'd put the same food in all five bowls. They all wanted a little of the food in the other cats' bowls - even though it was the same food. They kept nudging each other over to the next bowl until they made a complete circle back to their starting bowl! It was hilarious. Maybe I'll try it again and make a video this time. I think it would get a lot of laughs. Phil > I used to use a big round candy dish with 5 glass inserts; I'd put the same > food in all five bowls. They all wanted a little of the food in the other > cats' bowls - even though it was the same food. They kept nudging each > other over to the next bowl until they made a complete circle back to their > starting bowl! It was hilarious. Maybe I'll try it again and make a video > this time. I think it would get a lot of laughs. I've seen this, too. I'd love to see a video. Signaturehttp://www.slywy.com/ <SNIP> >It would have been interesting if he refused Wellness in the past but >accepted it now. That might have suggested a change in formulation. OTOH, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >to cost and labor limitations. That's why its so hard to switch cats to >canned food. Nope. This is the first time for Wellness. The times I failed I tried different flavors of Fancy Feast, Pet Gold, Science Diet, and others. This week I'll get some Hill's Turkey and see if I can get him to eat it. If so I'll truly claim success. <SNIP> Another hurdle passed? -- It's 1 PM here. The feeder is set to open at the normal time -- 2PM. Floppy has been walking into the kitchen and going over to the feeder, and sniffing at it several times now. I think I may have created a monster. eq > Another hurdle passed? -- > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > eq Well? Its after 2 PM... Did he go for it, or what? You've got me in suspense! LOL! Phil >> Another hurdle passed? -- >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Phil Yep -- 2PM came, and the other cats went for the feeder. Floppy stayed out of the way as they ate, then went and got his share. I've definitely been over feeding him today, but I want to get him "addicted" to wet. eq > >> Another hurdle passed? -- > >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Yep -- 2PM came, and the other cats went for the feeder. Floppy stayed > out of the way as they ate, then went and got his share. Yabba dabba doo! Success! I've definitely > been over feeding him today, but I want to get him "addicted" to wet. Once he's thoroughly transitioned, you might want to try introducing another brand of canned so he doesn't develop a fixed food preference. The way these petfood manufacturers keep trying to "improve" their diets by changing the formulas, its always a good idea to have another food that you know he'll accept waiting in the bullpen. 'Bet you're a happy dude! Phil The picture I'd thought I'd never get: http://web.newsguy.com/equalizer/floppy_wet.jpg He can't get enough of this stuff now -- when I take the can out of the fridge, he goes nuts. > The picture I'd thought I'd never get: > > http://web.newsguy.com/equalizer/floppy_wet.jpg > > He can't get enough of this stuff now -- when I take the can out of the > fridge, he goes nuts. Yay, floppy! > The picture I'd thought I'd never get: > > http://web.newsguy.com/equalizer/floppy_wet.jpg > > He can't get enough of this stuff now -- when I take the can out of the > fridge, he goes nuts. Ain't that a pretty sight! Looks like you're gonna have to by a scale! LOL! Not many people can say they went toe-to-toe with a cat over food and won! Phil Phil -- I bought some Science Diet Turkey today, and some Wellness Turkey. I haven't tried to feed him with it yet, because I've been seriously over-feeding them while getting Floppy addicted. Maybe this weekend when I can supervise to watch his reactions. However, he's going completely ape sh** at the site of the cans now. Last night, he was actually holding off the other cats when I put out some canned for a snack. eq > Phil -- > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > eq LOL! You know what they say about wishing..... It looks like you've created a monster - but at least he'll be a healthier monster! My cats weren't crazy about Wellness Turkey, but they like the Chicken. Since the first turkey they had was SD - which they still like - maybe Wellness Turkey tastes funny to them. OTOH, they like Wellness Chicken and Cal Nat Chicken & Rice but not SD Savory Chicken. ;-/ I'm curious to see how your cats feel about Wellness Chicken. Let me know, OK? Phil >> Phil -- >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > I'm curious to see how your cats feel about Wellness Chicken. Let me know, > OK? *sigh* At the moment, Oscar is refusing to eat wellness chicken & lobster, but she wolfs down turkey & salmon like she's never eaten anything better. This is the first wet food she's liked so much. My theory is, the turkey & salmon smells just like tuna. At least to me it does. As she's eating so little of the other flavors that it worries me, I think I'll call the shop tomorrow and see if they'll trade flavors. Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca >> Phil -- >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >Phil The cats love Wellness Chicken. That's the one that got Floppy to eat. I broke down last night and tried the SD Turkey Formula. At first Floppy thought it was the Wellness and went crazy as I opened the can. Then I put some cold into his dish and fended off the others and put it on the floor for him. He sniffed at it and started to walk away like "the old days". I made the "yum yum" sounds and he went back, sniffed, and walked out of the room. So, I nuked it, which is something that brings him running. I put the warm food up on the table and he jumped up, sniffed, and started to walk away. I re-nuked it and this time he tentatively licked it, then slowly started eating it until he was eating at full speed. The, before he finished it, I put another scoop of cold in his dish, which he kept eating, and gave the rest of the can to the other cats. So, there was something different there, but I did get him to eat it. I noticed the texture of the SD was rougher than the Wellness. To tell you the truth, I smelled both of them. If this was 25-30 years from now, and I'm unfortunate enough to still be alive and retired, I think I'd choose the Wellness Chicken over the SD Turkey to put over my Ramen for dinner. The SD just doesn't smell as appetizing to a human. But as long as I know the nutrients are on target the SD will be in his staple. I'm going to mix between SD Turkey and Wellness Chicken, and Wysong if I can find it. Any other suggestions for good canned from different manufacturers? This has been a great week for the cats -- they've gotten to overeat to their heart's content while I've been working on Floppy. Unfortunately, they'll be several pounds more overweight than usual, just in time for their wellness exams. I'll bet the vet's gonna shoot me, strangle me, then turn me into the ASPCA. eq > >> Phil -- > >> [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > to mix between SD Turkey and Wellness Chicken, and Wysong if I can find > it. My cats eat SD Turkey - but they don't gobble it up like they used to. I'm not sure if Hill's changed the formula or if they just got bored with it. The cats natural diet in the wild is rather monotonous - that's why cats developed so few taste buds (about 500 compared to a human's >9000). So, I'm kinda ruling out boredom with the diet. >Any other suggestions for good canned from different manufacturers? I think we've reached the bottom of the list of acceptable diets. My cats devoured Californial Natural until I got the proximate analysis from Natura... 1.31 phos! No wonder they gobbled it up. Innova Lite looks good 0.53% phos. but my cats won't touch it. I still haven't had a chance to pick up a few cans of Wysong - so there's still hope before I break out the pots. > This has been a great week for the cats -- they've gotten to overeat to > their heart's content while I've been working on Floppy. Unfortunately, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > eq Naa, just burn out a few sets of batteries in your laser pointer! Got an old fishing rod and reel? Cut the rod down to 12" and tie a lure (without the hook!) and a small weight on the end of the line and cast away. Its actually like fishing and the cats have a blast. That'll burn up a few pounds. Hopefully, tomorrow I'll be able to swing by the one store in my area that carries Wysong. Phil >> >> Phil -- >> >> [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] >pick up a few cans of Wysong - so there's still hope before I break out the >pots. I was afraid you'd say that. Possibly 100's of canned foods on the market, and 3, THREE, are adequate for our cats. Do me a favor Phil -- when you do go to making your own food, let me know, OK? And put an addition on your site about how to do it. >> This has been a great week for the cats -- they've gotten to overeat to >> their heart's content while I've been working on Floppy. Unfortunately, [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Phil > >>Any other suggestions for good canned from different manufacturers? > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I was afraid you'd say that. Possibly 100's of canned foods on the > market, and 3, THREE, are adequate for our cats. There might be more, I don't investigate foods as much I used to because mfgers change the formulas and/or source of ingredients so often that the proximate analyses are outdated before they come off the press. The only mfger that seems to be the most consistent is Hill's. I trust their PAs because a lot of petfood mfgers analyze Hill's foods looking for discrepancies to attack. Do me a favor Phil -- > when you do go to making your own food, let me know, OK? It sure looks like it might come to that. It wouldn't be so bad; cook up a week's supply and freeze daily portions in individual freezer containers or bags. And put an > addition on your site about how to do it. Sure thing. But lets hope it doesn't come to that. Phil
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