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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / February 2005Bizarre things the vet said
I was at a new-to-me vet yesterday. My regular vet was full and would only take my cat if I would drop him off so they could look at him between other patients and even then they were going to charge me for an unscheduled office visit. I was peeved and went elsewhere. I liked the new vet, an older guy, who, despite the fact that he was the only vet at his office that day and there was not only a screeching ill monkey (who has a life-threatening disease state) but a dog who had just been hit by a car (he was expected to fully recover, nothing broken, but his lungs were bruised) whose owners were very upset and semi-hysterical, spent quite a bit of time with Marbles and me. Anyway, he almost seemed like one of those old country vets even though he's in a very urban area, almost downtown Phoenix. I was mentioning that Marbles and my other 2 pre-existing cats do not get along even after 7 months and he said things like this: "Cats do not get along with other cats. They hate other cats. We all keep thinking we'll get a companion for our cat and they'd really rather be alone. Kittens like other kittens but cats don't like other cats when they grow up. If you bottle feed a baby kitten it will imprint on you and think you're its mom but as it gets older it will think of you as another adult cat and will hate you, too." "You can't have more than 3 cats who get along. If you look at people who have 10 or 20 cats, you will see that the cats stay in groups of not more than 3 and will either fight with the others or will avoid them." He also said he had 2 cats and recently brought in a third cat and said that life had been wonderful before. The 2 cats had liked each other but now that the 3rd is there, everything has changed for the worse. He did say that he thought, at some undefined point, that life at my house (and his) would not be so awful. They may never like each other but they will sort it out to where there is not open hostility. He said the very best thing in a situation like this would be to give the 3rd cat its own room forever, fill it with lots of toys, and never let it see or be with the others. He said a cat can live perfectly happy by itself in one little room with enough stimulation. I hope it doesn't come to that but I suppose it's an option of sorts. I was surpised by the cats hating other cats thing, though, and the implied concept that when we get companions for our cats, we are doing it for ourselves and not in the cats' best interest. I have had 4 cats at one time before (Emily, Cory, Miles, and Scottie/then Cory, Miles, Scottie, and Abbey) and there was never overt fighting...although, in retrospect, Emily never cared much for the others and Miles was always fairly aloof, not forming any feline allegiances. There was some hissing and growling at times and a swat now and then but nothing that required separation. Even when we were down to 3 with Cory, Scottie, and Abbey, Cory didn't mind Scottie and Abbey but he never really bonded with them. And now, with Scottie, Abbey, and Marbles, I have open hostility. What do you think, could this guy be right about cats hating other cats? Candace See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace "One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other than human." (Loren Eisely) > "You can't have more than 3 cats who get along. If you look at people > who have 10 or 20 cats, you will see that the cats stay in groups of > not more than 3 and will either fight with the others or will avoid > them." <snip> > What do you think, could this guy be right about cats hating other > cats? I think a lot of it has to do with how the cat was raised. My cat Dash(RB) was an only cat for quite some time. She came to us as a 4 week old stray, and never saw another cat until she was about 4 years old, when my brother decided he wanted a kitten. Dash barely tolerated Worf, but he gave her sh*t right back, so it kind of worked out. When I moved out and took Dash with me, she was again an only for several years, until my husband wanted a cat of his own, and we got the two kittens. She also just tolerated them. The two kittens, now 5 years old, both like other cats, although Bartleby can be bossy. Loki loves everyone. Antonio, who is semi-feral, loves the company of other cats. Sometimes almost all my cats (6 + one foster) will be in one area, like when they are looking out the sliding glass door. Usually they do kind of hang in groups of two or three.  Signature-Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net "Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG On Sun 06 Feb 2005 04:54:11p, Candace wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav (news:1107726851.534312.24480 @f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com): > What do you think, could this guy be right about cats hating other > cats? I think it is ridiculous. In some cases, yes, cats want to be "an only cat" but I think its the exception and not the rule. But to put that out as a blanket statement is just wrong! For many years I had Marley as an only cat. I never wanted to take in another because his reaction to just seeing another cat outside was hostile. I took in Shadow because he'd been put out by my neighbor and while they were never the best of friends, they had their moments. There was no real fighting, thank goodness. SignatureCheryl > I was at a new-to-me vet yesterday. My regular vet was full and would > only take my cat if I would drop him off so they could look at him [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > other > than human." (Loren Eisely) I'd start watching for other signs of quackery from this vet. <<I'd start watching for other signs of quackery from this vet.>> LOL, yeah, he was nice and very accommodating to see us but I'll probably go back to my regular vet even though I'm pissed at him. He had a bit of the country "bumpkin" to him. Candace See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace "One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection -from an eye other than human." (Loren Eisely) ><<I'd start watching for other signs of quackery from this vet.>> > > LOL, yeah, he was nice and very accommodating to see us but I'll probably go > back to my regular vet even though I'm pissed at him. He had a bit of the > country "bumpkin" to him. It's an odd point of view, but if he's otherwise a solid vet I don't know that I would let it bother me. Now, if you ask him about other issues where the vet community has about-faced in the last 20 years and he gives the old answers ... that's different. Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* >I was at a new-to-me vet yesterday. My regular vet was full and would > only take my cat if I would drop him off so they could look at him > between other patients and even then they were going to charge me for > an unscheduled office visit. I was peeved and went elsewhere. <snipped> This is normal practice at every vet clinic (unless you're an "insider" or have been in lately for regular treatments on the same pet), and you don't really have reason to be peeved. If an owner wants to see their regular vet that badly, at least they are giving you the option of having your pet looked at by it's regular vet. Of course they are still going to charge you an "office visit". It's actually more appropriately called an Examination/Consultation. The vet is still taking time to examine your cat, and will certainly meet with you upon discharge. You are still required to pay the vet for the time he/she takes to examine your cat. Nothing irks me more than people who don't recognize the doctors time as valuabe. > What do you think, could this guy be right about cats hating other > cats? He sounds a little kooky to me. I would be inclined to disagree. My three cats love playing together. It's the same routine everyday. They chase each other at 6am from one end of the house to the other, galloping up and down the hardwood floor hallway. Kelly > This is normal practice at every vet clinic (unless you're an "insider" or > have been in lately for regular treatments on the same pet), and you don't [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Nothing irks me more than people who don't recognize the doctors time as > valuabe. I think what Candace was saying is that she was going to be charged an extra fee for an "unscheduled" office visit. I don't think she was complaining about being charged for a visit. Signature-Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net "Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG > I think what Candace was saying is that she was going to be > charged an extra fee for an "unscheduled" office visit. I don't > think she was complaining about being charged for a visit. That's what I thought too. When I had to bring in Scarlett after her side ballooned up when she had the suture reaction, I had to pay an extra fee for an "emergency" visit. It was $10 over the normal exam fee, and at first I thought I shouldn't have been charged that, but paid it without complaint. After thinking about it, the vet has no way of knowing if a cat is going to react badly after spaying and is due her payments when she makes time to fit you in, and on a Saturday in our case. SignatureCheryl <<I think what Candace was saying is that she was going to be charged an extra fee for an "unscheduled" office visit. I don't think she was complaining about being charged for a visit.>> That is correct. It was not the standard office fee of $32.00 which I would, of course, have paid willingly. It was an additional fee on top of that. And I would not have seen the vet, that was also made clear to me. She (the vet who owns the practice is my real vet but I also go to his partner, who is the one that was on duty Saturday) would have examined the cat sometime during the day when she had time between patients and I would have picked him up at 3pm when they closed for the day, without me personally seeing the vet. And to address the other Kelly (not you, Kelly H), I am a regular client who has paid several thousand dollars over the last few years and I was in with the particular cat in question about 2 months ago so, yes, I guess I was a little peeved. I do recognize the vet's time as valuable and, moreover, I absolutely understand that they only staff one vet on Saturdays and that it would have been an imposition on her time to squeeze me in but, as it turned out, it was an abscess so it was an emergency situation. I told them it was an infection, I didn't know if it was an abscess or not, but if I had waited until Monday to take him in, he would have been considerably worse. I can even understand the dropping him off thing but I don't think I should have paid an additional fee for that service particularly since I would still not even see the vet. So I would have paid more than the standard $32 office visit fee and still not gotten the quality of service that I normally get for that. I do feel they could have waived the additional fee for me, an established client of many years. Call me irrational. It was not a different vet at the same practice that I saw, it was an altogether different vet at a different practice, to clarify. Basically, my regular vet's practice lost the $$ that the new vet made on me, which was $137, and I would think they might be concerned that I will not come back and, as I said, having spent several thousand dollars in the last 4 years at that practice, I would think they would prefer to keep me as a client. It's all about customer service and recognizing the value of your regular customers and maybe going the extra mile for them now and then...in order to keep them which, as a business owner, is what keeps your business going. It's basic good business practice. Candace See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace "One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection -from an eye other than human." (Loren Eisely) <top post> In that case Candace, I think you have reason to be annoyed. I've never heard of charging extra for not being an actual appointment. I work at a clinic and we certainly charge people an emergency fee if they knock on the door after hours while we're in the middle of closing (and you'd be surprised how often this happens)... but certainly not during regular hours. That's ridiculous. Even if one of our clients walks in without calling first and they have an urgent case we see them at no additional fee. Especially if it's a regular client, like you describe yourself as. You're not being irrational at all. Kelly <<I think what Candace was saying is that she was going to be charged an extra fee for an "unscheduled" office visit. I don't think she was complaining about being charged for a visit.>> That is correct. It was not the standard office fee of $32.00 which I would, of course, have paid willingly. It was an additional fee on top of that. And I would not have seen the vet, that was also made clear to me. She (the vet who owns the practice is my real vet but I also go to his partner, who is the one that was on duty Saturday) would have examined the cat sometime during the day when she had time between patients and I would have picked him up at 3pm when they closed for the day, without me personally seeing the vet. And to address the other Kelly (not you, Kelly H), I am a regular client who has paid several thousand dollars over the last few years and I was in with the particular cat in question about 2 months ago so, yes, I guess I was a little peeved. I do recognize the vet's time as valuable and, moreover, I absolutely understand that they only staff one vet on Saturdays and that it would have been an imposition on her time to squeeze me in but, as it turned out, it was an abscess so it was an emergency situation. I told them it was an infection, I didn't know if it was an abscess or not, but if I had waited until Monday to take him in, he would have been considerably worse. I can even understand the dropping him off thing but I don't think I should have paid an additional fee for that service particularly since I would still not even see the vet. So I would have paid more than the standard $32 office visit fee and still not gotten the quality of service that I normally get for that. I do feel they could have waived the additional fee for me, an established client of many years. Call me irrational. It was not a different vet at the same practice that I saw, it was an altogether different vet at a different practice, to clarify. Basically, my regular vet's practice lost the $$ that the new vet made on me, which was $137, and I would think they might be concerned that I will not come back and, as I said, having spent several thousand dollars in the last 4 years at that practice, I would think they would prefer to keep me as a client. It's all about customer service and recognizing the value of your regular customers and maybe going the extra mile for them now and then...in order to keep them which, as a business owner, is what keeps your business going. It's basic good business practice. Candace See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace "One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection -from an eye other than human." (Loren Eisely) Top Posting here, sorry... As a vet tech, I have to really disagree with both of you. My clinic has two doctors on for every shift. One doctor sees appts and the other is a "back up" doctor...they see discharges, emergencies, suture removals, etc. Every appt gets a 15 minute time slot, with more time as needed in the cases of multiple pets and new clients. Every 45 minutes we have a block out appt, which is kept in case of a sick pet or emergency. The clinic is open seven days a week with limited hours on Sunday. Weekdays we are open from 8am to 10pm. Why did I bother going through all that? I'm trying to illustrate how we schedule appts and the care we take to provide everyone who needs it with service. Yet night after night we end up SLAMMED with emergencies that can range from the truly life threatening (hit by car) to the just plain odd (dog ate a used tampon...will he die?). We're the dumping point for every other hospital in the area...if they feel they're too busy or just don't really feel like seeing their own patients, they turf them over to us, usually without even calling first. We've also done a terrific job of training our clients to treat us like crap. Cut a nail too short and your dog is bleeding a little? Rush over to us! You just have to get your cat a rabies shot at 9:30pm on a Friday? Come right over! Can't pay for that anal gland express we just did? That's fine, we hate money anyway! Look, I feel for clients with emergencies, I really do. I'm the one telling everyone to come over even if I know it really isn't serious because hey, I've been there. I know what it's like to not be sure and have to sit and worry that someone you love is sick. But I've also seen the other side...and hey, even if the vet wasn't going to speak to you that day, examining your cat is still going to take up their time. And when you have a full book of appts and no more block outs and emergencies every five minutes...that 10 minutes the vet spends to find that abcess on your cat is costly. We never used to charge for emergencies. We never used to insiste on payment for that matter. Now we have Care Credit for clients with money issues and all emergencies are $55 minumimun and the doctors have the freedom to charge more. Sunday appts are $45 just to walk in the door because even though we close at 3pm on Sundays we would end up there until 9pm with vaccines and nail trims. These policies aren't warm and fluffy. They aren't meant to be. We started them to keep our clinic from going under finicially and emotionally. Here's an example of a typical night at our hospital. You have appts throughout the entire evening. There's a small dog that just got hit by a car downstairs. Upstairs is that dog's owner, who you're trying to convince he needs to go to the human emergency room because his own dog bit half his cheek off. An eldery dog came in for a routine appt and suddenly went into violent seizures in an exam room. Brain cancer is suspected based on the dog's history and the owners decided to euthanize. Your back up doctor is doing an emergency spay because an eight year old lab just came in with a pyometra. A dog fight victim is being admitted and will need extensive supportive care. A long time client is bringing her cat in who is in a debatic crisis. Another patient just got admitted for chemo, which can take about two hours and he'll need to be closely watched the entire time. That was Friday at our clinic. Now imagine you're trying to deal with all of that and someone tells you that a cat is being admitted for an abcess. Normally that's no big deal. Hell, that's simple. You just need to sedate the cat, drain the abscess, give some drugs, and send him home. Most of the time we even enjoy abscess...something about that shooting puss is just fun. But on a night like this past Friday? It would have probably made me cry. That's what you're paying for...not only the work but the amount of stress emergencies cause everyone involved. And it doesn't matter if you've been to the clinic once or two thousand times...the work involved is the same. The amount of stress is the same. Your ten or twenty extra dollars pays for things like overhead and the building and new equipment so next time we'll be better able to serve you and your pet. It might also pay for employee bonuses and staff parties and needy client funds. The turn over in the vet tech world is very, very high. Nights like this past Friday are one reason for that. I don't ever blame anyone for having an emergency. sh.t happens and life can really suck sometimes. I do wish they would have a little more respect for the fact that we're doing our best to serve everyone, not just them, and we aren't super heros. And we really do deserve to get paid for our time and effort. If you've been going to this clinic for a long time you should realize that offering to see your cat on a busy night with no appt was something many vets wouldn't even bother to do. We have one local hospital that ships ALL of their sick pets to us. I don't think they've seen an emergency in close to three years. The clients they turf over typically end up staying with us...our prices might be higher but we're always there for people who need us. That's what you get for twenty more dollars. I'm sorry for being kind of snappy. There's a lot more going on at most animal hospitals than you can see just by walking into the waiting room. And honestly, if this other doctor had so much going on and was still able to spend so much time with you and yours...I'd have to wonder if those more critical patients were getting the care they needed. Sethran > In that case Candace, I think you have reason to be annoyed. I've never > heard of charging extra for not being an actual appointment. I work at a [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Kelly > sh.t happens and life can really suck sometimes. I do > wish they would have a little more respect for the fact that we're > doing our best to serve everyone, not just them, and we aren't super > heros. And we really do deserve to get paid for our time and effort. Excellent rant! Thank you for all you do. Priscilla I actually think 20$ for an emergency visit is pretty good. When Grant blocked, I had to go to the "on call" clinic, and I believe it was 75$ just to get him looked at which was at least 40 dollars above the regular. I was too worried sick to care. I was ready to sell my guitar if I had to (which may not sound like much but is a BIG deal to me.). > Top Posting here, sorry... > [quoted text clipped - 108 lines] > > > > Kelly >I actually think 20$ for an emergency visit is pretty good. When Grant >blocked, I had to go to the "on call" clinic, and I believe it was 75$ just >to get him looked at which was at least 40 dollars above the regular. I was >too worried sick to care. I was ready to sell my guitar if I had to (which >may not sound like much but is a BIG deal to me.). The vet I went to was $25 + regular fees, and I thought that was awesome. My sister took a cat to her regular vet on a saturday during regular business hours, and *all* fees were triple. I thought that was a bit too much. The vet was open, but just because it was a saturday, she had to pay triple for the exam, triple for the medication, triple for teh x-ray, etc. I would think that fees like that would discourage people and cause some of them to wait until monday, letting their pets suffer because they can't afford the bill. I know, if yo can't afford thr vet, you can't afford the cat. But honestly, how often do you need $400 TODAY. When Maynard had his abcess, I had to pay $243 *today*. Thankfully, it was a Thursday, and no extra fees. It was payday, and I had less than $10 after paying the vet. So, much for paying bills. I had to borrow money just to eat during the week. We do what we have to do. but most vets do not take payments. They want payment today, and if I had been forced to pay triple for everything that day, I would not have done the bloodwork or special tests. I would have done just the abcess cleanup and the meds. The vets know what they need to charge to stay in business and pay their crew. They can adjust the prices in every day fees to take care of that. And charge an emergency fee that is reasonable. But to just double or triple *every* cost is either pure greed or an effort to discourage people from getting their pets treated. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com >> I actually think 20$ for an emergency visit is pretty good. When Grant >> blocked, I had to go to the "on call" clinic, and I believe it was 75$ just [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > had to pay triple for the exam, triple for the medication, triple for > teh x-ray, etc. Well, that's nuts. If you are open, regular hours and it's your regular vet, that's just crazy. > I would think that fees like that would discourage people and cause > some of them to wait until monday, letting their pets suffer because > they can't afford the bill. I know, if yo can't afford thr vet, you > can't afford the cat. But honestly, how often do you need $400 TODAY. Yeah. That's just nuts. I don't understand that practice at all. > When Maynard had his abcess, I had to pay $243 *today*. Thankfully, it > was a Thursday, and no extra fees. It was payday, and I had less than [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > double or triple *every* cost is either pure greed or an effort to > discourage people from getting their pets treated. Yeah, I would OT be happy about that. The emergency vet was NOT my regular doctor. My regular vet does not charge extra even if she comes in special for you. But she is really good about things. > My sister took a cat to her regular vet on a saturday during regular > business hours, and *all* fees were triple. I thought that was a bit too > much. The vet was open, but just because it was a saturday, she had to pay > triple for the exam, triple for the medication, triple for teh x-ray, etc. That sounds excessive. I wonder if they can get away with it because they might be the only local vet open on Saturdays? > I would think that fees like that would discourage people and cause some of > them to wait until monday, letting their pets suffer because they can't [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > for everything that day, I would not have done the bloodwork or special > tests. I would have done just the abcess cleanup and the meds. Youch. I try to keep lots of room on my credit card, and one of the reasons (other than obviously not wanting to pay interest) is this sort of emergency. I know I'm lucky, though, in that I have a lot more freedom in my budget than a lot of people. Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* >> My sister took a cat to her regular vet on a saturday during regular >> business hours, and *all* fees were triple. I thought that was a bit too [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >That sounds excessive. I wonder if they can get away with it because they >might be the only local vet open on Saturdays? I don't know if their fees have changed since then since there are more vets open. But even then, my regular vet was open saturdays. I was stunned that my sister went to them at that rate when our regular vet, though furrther away doesn't charge extra on saturdays. And they've always been a good vet. We just don't live near them anymore. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com Seth wrote: <<I'm sorry for being kind of snappy. There's a lot more going on at most animal hospitals than you can see just by walking into the waiting room. And honestly, if this other doctor had so much going on and was still able to spend so much time with you and yours...I'd have to wonder if those more critical patients were getting the care they needed.>> Maybe you're right. I see your points and I understand how hectic it can get. I went back to my regular vet tonight anyway and had it done right. The country doc didn't inspire confidence in me. In his defense, though, he did treat the emergencies first, as he should have, before he spent the time with me. I waited for almost an hour before he came in (and I certainly was not mad about that). Candace See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace "One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection -from an eye other than human." (Loren Eisely) > I would think they might be concerned that I will not come back Only if you write them a letter explaining the situation and, in calm words, why you're upset about it. Otherwise, the receptionist who spoke to you probably has no idea she upset you, and she probably didn't check your patient history before telling you their weekend policy. Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* Monique Y. Mudama Feb 7, 11:31am show options Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav <<Otherwise, the receptionist who spoke to you probably has no idea she upset you, and she probably didn't check your patient history before telling you their weekend policy.>> Actually, it was the office manager and she knows me personally from all the zillions of times I've been there. But I got over it and took Marbles back there this evening (to my regular vet). I wasn't thrilled with the old country doc's advise for me to be expressing the abscess myself and I didn't get any pus out yesterday and his ear still looked swollen and felt very hot so we went back to our regular vet. They did a "wound prep" and cut a bigger hole so it will drain itself (altho he said there wasn't much pus left), cauterized it, etc. I feel better about it now even though I had to basically pay twice. If I had had it done this way the first time, I don't think I would have felt the need to go back a second time. I think he will be okay now. Candace See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace "One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection -from an eye other than human." (Loren Eisely) Too bad you don't live in the Seattle area, Candace. Our vet doesn't charge for a second visit if she didn't get it right the first time (and that is very rare). I feel very fortunate to have found such a competent and compassionate vet. Sharon Talbert Friends of Campus Cats >This is normal practice at every vet clinic (unless you're an "insider" or >have been in lately for regular treatments on the same pet), and you don't >really have reason to be peeved. Yikes. I have never heard of this. My long time vet didn't even require appoinments, unless it was for surgery. You just went in and waited your turn. My current vet is similar. They have appointments for followups and special things. But you can show up unannoucned, and they will fit you in. Emergencies get you moved to the front of the line. The only vet I have been to that required appoinments was the local vet that we took the injured stray to, and since he was an emergency, they took him right in. We had to take him back a couple times, and they always took him in without an appointment. The *only* time I had to pay an extra fee was when I took Kira to a vet on Easter Sunday. They are a 24 hour vet geared to non-standard hours. So, for them daytime is their normal closed time, and night time is standard. So, they charged a $25 fee, and I had to ring the bell to get somebody to let me in. I wasn't bothered though since I was not a regular client and most vets just double or triple their rates on weekends, let alone a holiday. I got out with only $82 spent, and my cat was much happier leaving than when she went in. Well worth it to me. But yes, I would be miffed, if my regular vet charged an extra fee during regular business hours for an emergency such as an abcess. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > Yikes. I have never heard of this. My long time vet didn't even > require appoinments, unless it was for surgery. You just went in and > waited your turn. My veterinarians have always required appts. except if you call with an emergency (broken leg), etc. Otherwise, it'd be chaos. Signaturehttp://www.slywy.com/ > > Yikes. I have never heard of this. My long time vet didn't even > > require appoinments, unless it was for surgery. You just went in and > > waited your turn. > > My veterinarians have always required appts. except if you call with an > emergency (broken leg), etc. Otherwise, it'd be chaos. Same here, including my local vet, the travelling vet, and Angell Memorial Hospital. How on earth would one keep order without appointments? Priscilla Signature"It is very, very dangerous to treat any human, lowest of the low even, with contempt and arrogant whatever. The Lord takes this kind of treatment very, very personal." - QBaal in newsgroup alt.religion.christian.episcopal >> > Yikes. I have never heard of this. My long time vet didn't even >> > require appoinments, unless it was for surgery. You just went in and [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Memorial Hospital. How on earth would one keep order without >appointments? I don't know, but it was never a problem. I never had to wait more than half an hour. It was a small vet with about 8 parking spots. And surgeries (except emergencies) were scheduled on two days each week so that that they had two vets available for exams on most days. The newer vet is a bit larger, has 3 vets on staff, and is a lot busier, but still works pretty well. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > > Yikes. I have never heard of this. My long time vet didn't even > > require appoinments, unless it was for surgery. You just went in and > > waited your turn. > > My veterinarians have always required appts. except if you call with an > emergency (broken leg), etc. Otherwise, it'd be chaos. Mine too, then of course if there IS an emergency we wait. Nobody would argue that an animal that has been hit by a car takes priority. >> Yikes. I have never heard of this. My long time vet didn't even >> require appoinments, unless it was for surgery. You just went in and >> waited your turn. > > My veterinarians have always required appts. except if you call with an > emergency (broken leg), etc. Otherwise, it'd be chaos. My vet also requires an appointment except for emergencies. However, there are no "extra fees" to fit people in for legitimate emergencies (assuming that this is done during regular business hours) -- just like with my own medical doctor. MaryL This vet is an idiot and if this his idea of cat behavior I'm afraid to find out how he practices medicine. I would never go back. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > What do you think, could this guy be right about cats hating other > cats? > > Candace Umm.. the fact that there are so many people with many cats who get along fabulously together proves him wrong. But remember, cats, like humans, are all different. some cats dont like other cats, just like some humans dont like other humans, its silly to say all cats dont. > What do you think, could this guy be right about cats hating other > cats? Uh, no. If they did, then the two feral sisters wouldn't have stayed together, and the LH feral sister wouldn't have adopted a young tiger boy cat, and the three of them wouldn't have formed a close family group. All three are tolerant of the singleton ferals who come by and of the outdoor pet cats who hang out or just drop in for a snack. There is no, zero, zilch fighting out there. No hissing, no nothing. Inside there's a little jockeying for social position and intergenerational stuff going on, but I actually saw Benjie lick Sebbie's ear the other day. Nope. He's either caught up in worry about his own home tribe or he doesn't know beans about cats or maybe -- did you smell his breath? Priscilla Signature"It is very, very dangerous to treat any human, lowest of the low even, with contempt and arrogant whatever. The Lord takes this kind of treatment very, very personal." - QBaal in newsgroup alt.religion.christian.episcopal I think he is just old school. Think back to your childhood-did you know anyone with multiple cats? Now it is more common, and more commonly discussed. If he doesn't have experience with multi-cat, he will continue to believe what he learned. Go to any working farm, and you will see groups of cats, large and small. Left to their own devices, with plenty of space, they socialize. Sure, if they are only cats when young, they won't like new cats when older. And sure, some cats will never get along just like some people don't get along. But don't lock one kitty away. I wouldn't be afraid to go back if his medical advice was good. Just don't let him do therapy on your cats! LOL > Sure, if they are only cats when young, they won't like new cats when > older. I wish I'd realized this =/ Oscar is my first cat, and if I'd known she'd grow to hate other cats, I'd probably have gotten her a companion before she got too used to the "only child" lifestyle. Of course, she grew up with dogs and can tolerate them ... Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* That's not true. My Isis was an only cat for 4 years before Jade came into the picture and they get along really well. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of Your Computer Needs! www.panthertekit.com >> Sure, if they are only cats when young, they won't like new cats when >> older. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Of course, she grew up with dogs and can tolerate them ... > > Sure, if they are only cats when young, they won't like new cats when > > older. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Of course, she grew up with dogs and can tolerate them ... I don't think rmarvn is right about that. There are no solid rules on this. Even Oscar might get along easily with some other cat. It is so personality dependent. Just like us, some people you can never get us to like from day one. Others, we have to warm up to, and there are some people you meet that you just feel like you've known all your life. > I don't think rmarvn is right about that. There are no solid rules on this. > Even Oscar might get along easily with some other cat. It is so personality > dependent. Just like us, some people you can never get us to like from day > one. Others, we have to warm up to, and there are some people you meet that > you just feel like you've known all your life. It's possible that Oscar would get along with another cat, but as miserable and terrified as she was when we tried to introduce Eros, who was 100% affectionate but also wouldn't leave her alone, I'm not willing to go through that again. Especially the part where I fall in love with a cat and then have to give him up. I do think that Oscar wouldn't have been as freaked out by Eros if she'd ever had to deal with another cat. She simply wasn't accustomed to anyone messing with her; she's used to getting her way, being left alone when she feels like it, and most certainly *not* getting her tail batted at by mischievous youngsters! Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* > > I don't think rmarvn is right about that. There are no solid rules on this. > > Even Oscar might get along easily with some other cat. It is so personality [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > it, and most certainly *not* getting her tail batted at by mischievous > youngsters! Maybe. But I had a cat in college that didn't know other cats really at all in his life. I thought the intro to my roomie moving in with a pure Siamese who was older would be a long process. Within three days they were best buds, sleeping together playing. It was awesome (although it sucked when we graduated and had to part ways, because I got another cat and he and Amigo NEVER clicked - though they didn't hate each other. Still it was so fun to see Amigo have a best friend.) so you just can never tell. > Sure, if they are only cats when young, they won't like new > cats when older. That's too much generalization. Holly was 7 years old when I adopted Duffy. I took a lot of time and care introducing them, and they now get along very well. They are usually in the same room together, and there is a lot of friendly interaction between them. MaryL <<Nope. He's either caught up in worry about his own home tribe or he doesn't know beans about cats or maybe -- did you smell his breath?>> Haha, no, but he was a tad peculiar, I'll admit... Candace See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace "One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other than human." (Loren Eisely) > I was at a new-to-me vet yesterday. My regular vet was full and would > only take my cat if I would drop him off so they could look at him [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > imprint on you and think you're its mom but as it gets older it will > think of you as another adult cat and will hate you, too." I've got only two cats at home. Tiger (female) is almost 15 and Otto (male) is 5 1/2. Tiger would like Otto to leave her alone most of the time but they don't fight and get along well, but it's not like they're curling up to sleep with each other. My sister has always had multiple cats. She only had problems one time, when she had her original cat and brought a new kitten home. Squeak *hated* the new kitten with a passion. It turned out that the kitten was ill and died within a week. After that, any cat my sister brought home (adult or kitten) was checked out by Squeak and approved. One of the newcomers was a brand new abandoned kitten that they bottle fed. That kitten did not grow up to hate my sister or her husband. -- Liz > I was at a new-to-me vet yesterday. My regular vet was full and would > only take my cat if I would drop him off so they could look at him [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > other > than human." (Loren Eisely) Nope. Don't think he's right at all. I grew up with at least 6 cats at any one time. They didn't all love each other, but they did indeed get along and not all of them were kittens when they came. They all have likes, dislikes and personalities. This vet is full of crap Candace. It is always best to have more than one cat so they can each keep the other one company. Even 3 cats can get along when given enough time. There are also a lot of cats that are inseparable. I would have asked this vet if actually spent any time at a shelter where littermates are brought in or a couple of cats that are definitely bonded to each other. What this vet stated is ridiculous! He obviously doesn't know cats very well. When Jade and Isis were introduced they didn't exactly hit it off right then and there. Now they are close but they also have their spats. When I brought Icarus into the fold, Isis and he were good together at first until the fight for the top spot in the household took place. Now there are plenty of times they fight and some times where they actually will play with each other. Icarus may not have been around other cats but that is being worked on. This weekend I was at a cat show with Isis and when I brought her home Icarus seemed glad to see her and he came right up to the carrier and didn't pounce on her as she stepped out of it. In fact the night before the show she and Icarus actually slept next to each other. So, there is always hope. 3 cats can get along with each but it takes time. There are cats that prefer to be the only one in the household but that may have a lot to do with how they were raised and of course they'd rather not share their human with another cats. That is how it is sometimes. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of Your Computer Needs! www.panthertekit.com >I was at a new-to-me vet yesterday. My regular vet was full and would > only take my cat if I would drop him off so they could look at him [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > other > than human." (Loren Eisely) > Anyway, he almost seemed like one of those old country vets even though > he's in a very urban area, almost downtown Phoenix. I was mentioning [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > See my cats: > http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace What this vet said makes no sense at all. Lots of people have multi-cat households without having the problems he described. This vet apparently doesn't know anything about how to introduce a new cat or kitten into the household. Moreover, what about that statement about how an adult cat will think of "you" as another cat and will hate you. Think about it! Have you ever seen this type of reaction??? I certainly haven't. (I think it may be time to find another vet.) MaryL (take out the litter to reply) Photos of Duffy and Holly: >'o'< http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly) http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in") he said things like this: > "Cats do not get along with other cats. They hate other cats. We all > keep thinking we'll get a companion for our cat and they'd really [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > not more than 3 and will either fight with the others or will avoid > them." I seriously hope his medical knowledge is a bit more up to date than his knowledge of the social behavior and social arrangements of cats! Many of the old theories and attitudes like his about the social behavior of cats are based on outdated and misinterpreted studies of cats on islands and/or where food is spread out over large areas, and also because cats hunt alone. Cats are solitary hunters because of the size of their prey - it doesn't take more than one cat to bring down a mouse - and a mouse is not even enough food for one cat. Where food is sparse, the cats tend to live solitary lives because of the low concentration of food. But where food and mice and/or shelter are plenty, like around restaurant garbage cans or abandoned buildings fairly stable colonies certainly do form. Ask anyone who manages a feral colony! Cats develop different cultures and social arrangements based on their circumstances. The early history of cats forming large colonies around the granaries in Egypt - and even the stable feral cat colonies today - are enough to debunk the myth of the solitary cat. Some cats just don't get along. Could be scent or one cat's fearful perception of the other that provokes the other cat. There are many possible reasons. But the fact that the millions of people have harmonious multiple-cat households unequivocally proves him wrong and that cats are indeed capable of being social. Phil >Kittens like other kittens but cats don't like other >cats when they grow up. If we keep them in a state of perpetual kittenhood, then they do continue to like each other. > If you bottle feed a baby kitten it will >imprint on you and think you're its mom but as it gets older it will >think of you as another adult cat and will hate you, too." Umm, tell that to Maynard. I bottle fed him (Okay, it was an eyedropper). And he still seems pretty happy with me. >"You can't have more than 3 cats who get along. I have a photo with 5 cats in it. 4 are curled up in a chair taking a nap together. We call that a cat pile. The 5th was walking along the back of the chair. At one point, we had 6 who all got along together. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com When we found our two girls at the shelter, Stella was a very young kitten of a few months old and Delilah was about 6 months. The lady there didn't want us to have both cats. She said the bigger of the two cats would kill the little one. I had already fallen in love so I asked her to check with the supervisor. We put them on the floor together and they had a little sniff at each other then went on about their business. When we got home, they immediately looked around and mostly ignored each other. The shelter woman had said to keep Stella in a separate room when we weren't there and we did but each time we shut her away, Delilah would become a bit agitated and wait for her to come out. Stella wasn't litter trained and I noticed that each time she had an accident and I took her to the litter, Delilah would follow. Stella learned very fast about the litter but for months, Delilah would follow her to the litter and sit outside while she went. As she finished, Delilah would poke her head in to make sure Stella had covered properly. If she did not, she would gently tap Stella on her head as she tried to get out. Stella knew what that meant and would go scratch some more. They also immediately began sleeping together and if I had a dollar for each photo we have of them cuddled up together... from their arrival here last year till now, I'd be a rich woman. They still squeeze in the basket bed we have for them, groom each other, play together and seem to have their own language of meows to say COME PLAY! Maybe some cats don't like other cats but some humans are like that too. I think it depends on the cat. Vets don't know everything about cats. No one ever will :) Signature.oO rach Oo. >I was at a new-to-me vet yesterday. My regular vet was full and would > only take my cat if I would drop him off so they could look at him [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > other > than human." (Loren Eisely) > When we found our two girls at the shelter, Stella was a very young kitten > of a few months old and Delilah was about 6 months. The lady there didn't > want us to have both cats. She said the bigger of the two cats would kill > the little one. Wow. That is just scary that someone that ignorant could work in a shelter. >> When we found our two girls at the shelter, Stella was a very young >> kitten [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Wow. That is just scary that someone that ignorant could work in a > shelter. I agree. When the girls had their annual appointment last week, the vet assistant commented on how good they are together. We told her this story about the shelter and she was very surprised and suggested the woman may have wanted the kitten for herself. I remember she did say that Stella was found behind a grocery store in extremely poor condition and that she hoped we would take good care of her because she was her "little baby". My idea was if she was so in love with her, then why was Stella still sitting in that shelter? Maybe she just wanted Stella to stay in the shelter for her own purposes. In the end, I sent a thank you letter to the shelter for finding the girls and sent a photo of them sleeping peacefully together. .. just so she knew they weren't killing each other. In fact, when Stella was a kitten, she would regularly ignore her own food and push Delilah out of the way to get to her bowl. Delilah could have knocked her back but she would just look at me and go over to Stella's dish to eat. To this day, they still share bowls. > When we found our two girls at the shelter, Stella was a very young kitten > of a few months old and Delilah was about 6 months. The lady there didn't > want us to have both cats. She said the bigger of the two cats would kill > the little one. I had already fallen in love so I asked her to check with > the supervisor. We put them on the floor together and they had a little > sniff at each other then went on about their business. What?? That shelter worker does not know much about cats. I always encourage someone to get a friend for a kitten, if they are open to it. An adolescent cat makes an excellent kitten pal. Signature-Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net "Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG >> When we found our two girls at the shelter, Stella was a very young >> kitten of a few months old and Delilah was about 6 months. The lady there [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > encourage someone to get a friend for a kitten, if they are open to it. > An adolescent cat makes an excellent kitten pal. You are so right. My memories of my family's cats come alive with multiple cat homes. My aunt had three for as long as I remember, my other aunt 4. They always got along really well with very different personalities. From time to time, Delilah needs some time away from her little sister and has several "Delilah spots" or hiding places where she goes to chill out. She stays there for a bit then will come back or meow to Stella to come play. Like I said in a post I just wrote, I think the worker just wanted Stella for herself. > What?? That shelter worker does not know much about cats. I always > encourage someone to get a friend for a kitten, if they are open to it. An > adolescent cat makes an excellent kitten pal./// I've just finished introducing a 3rd cat into my family. I knew that things were going to be OK this morning when the New cat (Cleo) walked over to HRFL Tigers food dish whilst he was eating from it. He just moved over so she could share. :o) Cleo is a "failed adoption" who came back to me as foster mom because she kept hiding and biting when approached (she was in an only cat home). Now she is coming out of herself because she has cat buddies to play with. Helen M > I've just finished introducing a 3rd cat into my family. I knew that > things were going to be OK this morning when the New cat (Cleo) walked > over to HRFL Tigers food dish whilst he was eating from it. He just > moved over so she could share. :o) While Francis often eats kitten food separated from the adult cats, about 1/3 of the time they eat the same thing all in a little circle, each with their own dish. Well, they start out with their own dish, but every so often they kind of rotate. Caley wonders if Benjie has something better, who then goes over to see if Sebbie's might be free since Caley's taken over his dish, and Sebbie notices that there's food available in Caley's unattended dish. Watching Francis learn the routine is amusing. He hasn't learned yet that if someone comes over and sticks their nose in his dish, he's to go find the open dish and eat from it. He tries to keep eating from his original dish along with the interloper. I have confidence that he'll eventually figure it out. In the meantime I like watching that penny teeter on the edge, waiting to drop. Priscilla |
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