 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeDiscussion GroupsGeneral TopicsCat AnecdotesHealth and BehaviorRescue CatKB.com Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map |
Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / February 2005need practical strategies
I need to hear how you folks have managed to get a cat who basically exists on kibbles to switch to wet food. This morning I decided to puree some of Mingy's normal canned fare in the hopes that he will eat that instead of just licking off the gravy. I figure this, at least, will smell familiar to him. Then I can add some other foods and segue him into them. That is IF he cooperates at all. He did just get up and go downstairs, so I went to give him some of this puree. He ran away from it though. Of course, one problem is that, unlike with dry food, you can't just leave the wet food out in the hope that the baby will eat it sometime. And that brings up another issue. How do you get a cat who is used to grazing to eat two large meals a day? Mingy never eats much at a time. I am worried that trying to impose this diet will just result in a big weight loss (in the near term, anyway), but I have to get this done somehow, since obviously crystals and blockages are to be avoided! In the meantime, he has pretty much segued into the c/d kibbles, so I *guess* that is an improvement for the short-term. I have also ignored the fact that his bowl is pretty much empty............  SignatureJean B. > I need to hear how you folks have managed to get a cat who > basically exists on kibbles to switch to wet food. This morning I [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > for the short-term. I have also ignored the fact that his bowl is > pretty much empty............ > Jean B. In a book entitled 'The Natural Cat'... I read a few things about feeding habbits. If you want your cat to eat a sceduled times, put the food out at those times, give it 20 min & then put the food away. After a couple of days the cat will 'get it', there should'nt be any significant weight loss. As to hard to soft food.... Beat's me! I've had the same issue with one of mine, Chablis seems to have lost interest in the wet food I suppliment her kibble with... *sigh* SignatureMathew Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat En Vino Veritas > > In a book entitled 'The Natural Cat'... I read a few things about feeding [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat > En Vino Veritas Thanks, Mathew. BTW, I "know" your mom. I had the pleasure of being one of her Secret Santas this year! <g> SignatureJean B. > I need to hear how you folks have managed to get a cat who > basically exists on kibbles to switch to wet food. This morning I > decided to puree some of Mingy's normal canned fare in the hopes > that he will eat that instead of just licking off the gravy. Why not buy his canned food that is already ground and not chunky? > > I need to hear how you folks have managed to get a cat who > > basically exists on kibbles to switch to wet food. This morning I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Why not buy his canned food that is already ground and not > chunky? Because right now I figure he might at least go for the smell of the foods he normally eats. I am going to discontinue feeding him that food though, and then I will, indeed, do that! In fact, he has eaten a bit of the new wet food, but I don't want to add upset system to his other woes right now, so I am adding that SLOWLY! The good news is that he seems to like it, but I have to get to the point where he is getting all or virtually all of his calories from wet food. SignatureJean B. >> > I need to hear how you folks have managed to get a cat who >> > basically exists on kibbles to switch to wet food. This morning I [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > the point where he is getting all or virtually all of his calories > from wet food. When Rusty had struvite crystals, the vet told me to give him canned S/D 100% right away. No mixing with the old food as normally recommended. I was lucky that Rusty eats all the different kinds of prescription food given to him over the years. The only times he won't eat were when he was on antibiotics. If Mingy likes chunk and gravy type of food, you may want to try Medi Cal Dissolution. The canned Dissolution is in a chunk and gravy format. The dry Dissolution has a gravy mix. It is similar to S/D in that it helps dissolve struvite crystals. The last time Rusty was put on S/D, the vet said I can give him either S/D or Dissolution. I went with S/D as Rusty had S/D previously. Medi Cal is a Canadian company so I don't know whether it is available in U.S. But presumably your vet can order it for you as it is a prescription food. For more info on Dissolution, go to http://www.medi-cal.ca/consumers/Feline/Dissolution_EN.asp Another thing I tried when Rusty was not eating was to spoon feed him. He likes that. When that didn't work, I put a small spoonful of food inside his mouth and he swallowed. That was very time consuming for sure. Also try warming the food in microwave to release more aroma to temp Mingy. Are you feeding him S/D or C/D? Someone once told me lots of cats don't like C/D. But Rusty ate it. Other prescription food for maintenance and prevention include Medi Cal Preventive and Royal Canin pH control S/O. Rusty had all of these. Is Mingy drinking enough water? If not you can also try using a syringe (without the needle) to put water in his mouth. But you have to be careful that he doesn't choke. A vet told my mother to try this with her cat. Scruffy liked that but not Rusty. Good luck and keep us posted on Mingy. Winnie > >> > I need to hear how you folks have managed to get a cat who > >> > basically exists on kibbles to switch to wet food. This morning I [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > Winnie Hi Winnie, Thanks for your recommendations. I have not heard of the Medi Cal before. The format, anyway, sounds interesting. I have gotten conflicting advice from the three vets I have spoken to since Mingy was admitted to the hospital. The first advocated DRY c/d. Only. The second at least thought canned was the way to go. The third gave us cans of the c/d, s/d and Waltham to try--and just said the s/d was higher quality. No directive to use one or the other. Also, I obviously cannot just try feeding Mingy a can of this then a can of that and then a can of something else, since he'd need time to get used to anything he switches to. Today he is NOT being the least bit cooperative. I did pick up his dry food, so he won't fill up on that before I try again with his wet food. I think he is tired of my always trying to tempt him to eat the wet foods, so he is scurrying away. It will be a step backwards if he doesn't even lick his gravy tonight. I'd better weigh him and see how he's doing in that regard............ SignatureJean B. > Thanks for your recommendations. I have not heard of the Medi Cal > before. The format, anyway, sounds interesting. In the US, Medi Cal is known as IVD brand. SignatureCheryl > > Thanks for your recommendations. I have not heard of the Medi Cal > > before. The format, anyway, sounds interesting. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > -- > Cheryl Ah yes, I have seen that. I need to compare all of these brands. Thanks! SignatureJean B. You can't force a cat to eat wet food, who doesn't like wet food. Unless you want to put it into a syringe and force feed the cat. No matter how much I would like my one cat to eat wet food, he turns his nose up at it every time. The only stuff he ever did touch was Walthams Venison & Rice which I don't think they make anymore. And I should mention, that it is much better for a cat to eat several small meals a day (i.e. "graze") than to give a cat two big meals a day. Two big meals a day puts too much of a spike in their insulin levels. Subsequently what goes up, must come down and the insulin level crashes shortly after. Not great for kitty's system and this may contribute to the development of diabetes. Kelly Kelly >I need to hear how you folks have managed to get a cat who > basically exists on kibbles to switch to wet food. This morning I [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > for the short-term. I have also ignored the fact that his bowl is > pretty much empty............ > You can't force a cat to eat wet food, who doesn't like wet food. Unless > you want to put it into a syringe and force feed the cat. No matter how [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Kelly Sigh. I'll add this to the pros of grazing. Still that will be hard for a cat who eats wet food, and I hope Mingy will do that. More possible when I am here, of course, but I can't leave wet food out for hours. SignatureJean B. Jean wrote: >Sigh. I'll add this to the pros of grazing. Please see my response to Kelly. This isn't the first time she's posted wrong information. Allowing a cat to "graze" is NOT a pro and is completely contrary to how they would eat in the wild. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > Jean wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > wrong information. Allowing a cat to "graze" is NOT a pro and is > completely contrary to how they would eat in the wild. Oh yes Megan. Because you know everything there is to know about cats. Everyone should listen to you, and only you. Here's a tip: Get over yourself. Kelly I don't know how much of a "strategy" this is, but I do both. Give the cats wet food 2x a day and leave some dry out for grazing. The reality is that some days they eat more wet and some days they eat more dry, but they always have at least a little of both and it seems to average out pretty even on the whole. I figure having food choices lets them adjust to what their body is telling them, and reduces the odds of turning food into a power struggle. That said, I throw away alot of uneaten cat food. But they seem to eat a fairly balanced diet, neither has weight problems, and we don't have big food stand-offs so it seems like a decent tradeoff/ Jean, More on "grazing" from the WSAVA: "There is increasing suspicion that free choice dry feeding may complicate diabetes in cats, and some holistic practitioners wonder whether this practice may even predispose to diabetes. Finally, cats with chronic crystalluria or a history of stones should be managed by diluting the urine; this is naturally and more easily accomplished using canned or homemade food, rather than dry food. " Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > Jean, > More on "grazing" from the WSAVA: [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > - W.H. Murray Hmmm. I wonder why they specify free choice DRY [emphasis added] feeding in the first sentence? What percentage of the problem is because it is grazing as vs. dry food (to the degree they can be separated). Low-carb diets seem to be good for human diabetics anyway, so I wonder whether decreasing the amount of carbohydrate helps with that. I agree with the canned vs. dried. The more I read, the more that seems to be a (the?) critical factor. (Now Mingy is just leaving when I offer him wet food. :-( ) SignatureJean B. > And I should mention, that it is much better for a cat to eat several small > meals a day (i.e. "graze") than to give a cat two big meals a day. Two big > meals a day puts too much of a spike in their insulin levels. Subsequently > what goes up, must come down and the insulin level crashes shortly after. > Not great for kitty's system and this may contribute to the development of > diabetes. I agree, but not many of us can stay home (or return home) just to feed the cat in the middle of the day. I spoke with my vet, who said that while 3-4 meals a day is better, 2 is probably just fine and obviously easier on folks who have to leave the house to work. Then again, Oscar isn't currently ill, so it's not as much of a concern. Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* >And I should mention, that it is much >better for a cat to eat several small meals [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >and this may contribute to the >development of diabetes. This is bullshit and irresponsible for you to not only be so general, but wrong. Feeding dry food will spike the blood sugar no matter when you feed or how often as it's sugar with a little meat added. I've seen a cat that got a hold of a few pieces of kibble in the middle of the day have a spike as high as 200 points. Feeding a canned food on a schedule keeps insulin levels in a reasonable range and you don't see huge spikes like you do with dry food. I have been working with diabetic cats for more than 6 years and the one common denominator upon diagnosis is that, without exception, these cats were free fed dry food. Putting these cats on canned diets fed on a 12 hour schedule has lowered or eliminated the insulin needs of *every single cat.* I've done plenty of curves and on this schedule and diet there are no "spikes" and I see steady downward trends, a leveling off, then an upward trend occuring with the high point being before the next meal. Especially when doing a curve it is important to feed a meal and have nothing in between to get an accurate measure of how the insulin is working and get accurate peak numbers. Feeding a dry diet is the most likely cause of diabetes and more and more vets are coming to realze this. As for you, don't post this kind of crap when you obviously don't know what you're talking about. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray <SNIP> > And I should mention, that it is much better for a cat to eat several small > meals a day (i.e. "graze") than to give a cat two big meals a day. Two big [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Kelly Interesting.... I've read and heard the opposite. Eating once or twice a day, helps cats properly detox their systems. One article I read even reccomended fasting your cat once or twice a year for a couple of days. I'm certainly no expert & your explination does seem logical, but so did the GI detox theorey when I read it... Anyone with more info??? SignatureMathew Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat En Vino Veritas > Interesting.... I've read and heard the opposite. Eating once or twice a > day, helps cats properly detox their systems. One article I read even > reccomended fasting your cat once or twice a year for a couple of days. Cats are natural gorgers/fasters. Signaturehttp://www.slywy.com/pages/hodge.html > I need to hear how you folks have managed to get a cat who > basically exists on kibbles to switch to wet food. This morning I [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > for the short-term. I have also ignored the fact that his bowl is > pretty much empty............ Well, Oscar's cat food is all minced up already. I switched her from dry to canned in December. She much prefers dry, but she'll eat the wet. She seems less likely to eat it when it's not mushed up (like when it comes out of the fridge in a big chunk) or if the food is along the edges of the bowl, so I mash it a bit with a fork and then make a bit of a pile out of it in the middle of the bowl. Maybe it's just my imagination. Oscar *does not* eat food when it's first available. So I don't agree that you "can't just leave the wet food out." I leave the wet food out right up until the next feeding. I have multiple bowls, so there's no problem with having a clean bowl right away. I think she actually prefers to wait an hour or two before eating, and that's fine with me. I trust her not to eat food that's gone bad enough to make her sick; she's a picky eater. The whole thing about forcing them to eat within a given time frame makes me nervous, anyway. Seems to me it might encourage them to eat more than they need because they know they won't get anything else for a long time. But maybe I'm anthropomorphizing. Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* > > Well, Oscar's cat food is all minced up already. I switched her from dry to > canned in December. How did you do that? She much prefers dry, but she'll eat the wet. She seems > less likely to eat it when it's not mushed up (like when it comes out of the > fridge in a big chunk) or if the food is along the edges of the bowl, so I > mash it a bit with a fork and then make a bit of a pile out of it in the > middle of the bowl. Maybe it's just my imagination. Well, now I forget whether Mingy ever ate chunks. He did eat the mushed up stuff when he was a kitten (Iam's), but then Iam's got bought and I switched him from that. I am thinking he must have eaten the chunks at one point, or I would have tried something else....... Now, though, I definitely have to do something about those chunks--and switch to another form. Come to think of it, SD comes in another form. If a cat has eaten the Savory Cuts, is the formula of the other type similar enough so he/she won't get stomach upsets? (That question is to anyone who knows.) > Oscar *does not* eat food when it's first available. So I don't agree that > you "can't just leave the wet food out." I leave the wet food out right up > until the next feeding. I have multiple bowls, so there's no problem with > having a clean bowl right away. I think she actually prefers to wait an hour > or two before eating, and that's fine with me. I trust her not to eat food > that's gone bad enough to make her sick; she's a picky eater. What do folks think of this? What experiences have you (pl) had? I assume bacteria would grow on the food, esp. if the cat has eaten some of it? How long CAN it stay out? > The whole thing about forcing them to eat within a given time frame makes me > nervous, anyway. Seems to me it might encourage them to eat more than they [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* Well, I have had a semi-similar thought. Mingy has kept his weight at exactly ten pounds for all of his adult life. I wonder what tinkering with his diet and schedule will do to this? The scheduling thing seems more of an ultimate issue than the diet. I am sasuming I WILL be able to get him to eat wet food, but it will take time (and lots of wasted wet food). SignatureJean B. My most recent two cats have lived on dried food and refused to touch wet food. I've tended to give my cats what THEY want rather than what I want them to eat. (Things are different with my present cat who is CRF - but she will only eat dry food). The disadvantages with wet food is that it can smell horrible (well to me anyway) and in the summer gets 'flyblown' and pongs the kitchen out as well. Dried food does not seem to attract flies in the same way and - so I'm told - is more nutritious as it is not 70% water - therefore you can serve up a little less without the cat being hungry. Well thats the theory. sarah > My most recent two cats have lived on dried food and refused to touch wet > food. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > sarah Since Mingy just was hospitalized for crystals, I want his urine to be more diluted. That's why I want to switch him over to wet food. Of course, in the end, either he will or he won't cooperate. I THINK he will, but I may be wrong. SignatureJean B. > The disadvantages with wet food is that it can smell horrible (well to me > anyway) and in the summer gets 'flyblown' and pongs the kitchen out as well. I definitely have noticed that Wellness is much less nasty-smelling than other wet foods I've tried. In fact, I hate to admit it, but when I get up in the morning and feed Oscar (always before I make myself breakfast), I'm hungry enough that it smells pretty tasty! I'll admit that I've only just started this wet food thing, and it's winter, so flies aren't an issue. Bugs in general seem to be less of an issue in this climate than they were back in VA, though, so I don't anticipate it becoming a problem *for me*. > Dried food does not seem to attract flies in the same way and - so I'm told > - is more nutritious as it is not 70% water - therefore you can serve up a > little less without the cat being hungry. I've heard more the opposite -- that dry food has less useful nutrition (more carbs, when the cat's body wants protein and fat), so they will eat more dry food than they need, calorie-wise, to meet their nutritional requirements. My experience with Oscar has certainly fit in to this hypothesis. Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* >> >> Well, Oscar's cat food is all minced up already. I switched her from dry >> to canned in December. > > How did you do that? I just ... did it. I packed away all her dry food and started feeding her canned twice a day. She wasn't thrilled, but she didn't starve herself in protest or anything. If I thought she wasn't quite eating enough, she'd get a few treats, but not enough to substitute for a meal. However: Oscar is four years old, so relatively young. Oscar is (knock on wood) completely healthy, so she doesn't have any complicating factors. I'm sure I would have changed my tune if she had refused to eat at all for several days. > She much prefers dry, but she'll eat the wet. She seems >> less likely to eat it when it's not mushed up (like when it comes out of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Well, now I forget whether Mingy ever ate chunks. Well, I didn't mean "chunky food" -- I mean, if you take the mushy/pate'-type food and refrigerate half of it, it comes out in a big chunk. Oscar doesn't like that, even if you cut it into several big chunks. She seems more likely to eat if I mush that up. > Well, I have had a semi-similar thought. Mingy has kept his weight at > exactly ten pounds for all of his adult life. I wonder what tinkering with > his diet and schedule will do to this? The scheduling thing seems more of > an ultimate issue than the diet. I am sasuming I WILL be able to get him to > eat wet food, but it will take time (and lots of wasted wet food). I can tell you that Oscar dropped 2 pounds in less than two months on canned food. She went from slightly "fluffy" to just about perfect. I would not be surprised if Mingy loses weight even while eating a reasonable amount of canned food. Oscar's weight drop actually scared me, so I'm making more food available. I'd reduced her portion size to 1/3 can 2/day because she wasn't eating all of the half-can portions, but now we're back to half a can again, and I just trash what she doesn't eat. I don't really see a way around this. She's not consistent about when she'll eat a whole bowl vs. only part of it ... Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* > > I can tell you that Oscar dropped 2 pounds in less than two months on canned [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* Sigh. I sure hope Mingy doesn't lose more weight. Also, all I can do is put out food when I know he is up and around. Luckily, he frequently will come in here and give me a little tap on the arm when is gets up, although he may sneak past without my knowing it too. But then I put it out, and he just ignores it. I think he's tired of my bugging him about eating. SignatureJean B. Jean wrote: >I need to hear how you folks have >managed to get a cat who basically exists >on kibbles to switch to wet food. I've had many hard core dry food junkies come into my home and I've always been able to transition them to canned food. The most basic way is to start out making a gravy with the canned and puting it on half the food, then gradually add more canned and less dry as time goes on. You also need to take up food so it isn't available all day. That will create an appetite in your cat and will help increase his interest in the food you offer at the next meal. You just have to be patient and stick to your guns. I've been working with Rene, who posts here, and she had to transition her cat from dry to canned. If you read the page about her cat she includes tips on transitioning from dry to wet too: http://community.webtv.net/getcathelp/tucker Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > > I've had many hard core dry food junkies come into my home and I've [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Megan Thanks for the above tip and the link, which I will go to next. Using the wet food as gravy would certainly lead to my picking up that food pretty quickly. <g> SignatureJean B. > I need to hear how you folks have managed to get a cat who > basically exists on kibbles to switch to wet food. Good luck with Mingy. I'm not having luck with Bonnie. It's also crucial for her to be on a wet diet because she's getting overweight. She started out as a scrawny feral almost 2 years ago, and now she will eat nothing but dry food. And she is obsessed with food. I tricked her a few times to get her to eat canned, but she is clearly smarter than me, and will not be tricked too many times. With another, Shadow, I got him back on canned food when he had IBD. He developed a preference to dry food and wouldn't touch canned. I slowly started cutting back on the dry, left none at all out between meals, and particularly overnight. By morning he was hungry enough to eat what I gave him. I didn't try to switch him all at once and it seemed less stressful to him; he was a nervous type and got stressed by no dry at all (hovered around the kitchen, cried to me whenever I went to the kitchen yet didn't give him dry food) so I gave him about 1/4 cup per day. Main meals were canned, 2x per day. SignatureCheryl > > Good luck with Mingy. I'm not having luck with Bonnie. It's also [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > -- > Cheryl Thanks, Cheryl. Another factor I am pondering this morning is whether Mingy is having trouble eating the little round pellets of dried c/d kibble. I THOUGHT he was segueing into that at least, but now I think he is leaving almost all of it in his dish. I think I have to get back to making sure he eats first and then worrying about WHAT he eats. :-( SignatureJean B.
|
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.