... following up the continuing saga of our 14-year-old black neutered male
Moses, he's made remarkable progress in the couple of weeks since we've
finally gotten an idea of what was causing his weight loss, etc.
With what we've been doing on the recommendation of our vet ... 1.6 cc
Prednisone once daily, .5 cc Metronidazole twice daily and Hill's
Prescription i/d diet, as much as he'll eat whenever he wants to eat it ...
he's obviously beginning to put on weight, his coat is bright and shiny
again and he's lost the sickly appearance that he had when he was so
emaciated. He just seems so alert and alive again.
In short, he appears to be getting back to his old self. It's like day and
night compared to what he was when I first posted about him.
The instances of defecation outside the box have also lessened, although
they haven't totally disappeared.
An aside on that, he does have a low-sided box that is easy to get into and
out of.
Phil P. had suggested we look at giving him pancreatic enzyme because of the
test results we got and the symptoms Moses was showing.
We are certainly willing to do that if it's required; however, at this point
our vet recommends that we continue doing what we're doing for another
two-and-a-half to three weeks and assess things at that time and see where
we stand and how Moses is doing, and make a decision as to whether we want
to proceed along those lines..
One thing if you're out there Phil, Moses' stool has changed from the
yellowish tan color to a grayish color now, and it's been pretty
consistently like that for several days now (after your post, I've begun
watching it a little more closely), so I take it that's a good sign? It also
appears to be much thicker consistency than it was when he was so sickly,
although it's still not as solid as other cats', including our other
14-year-old orange tabby (FYI, his name is Bartholemew).
Another aside to Phil, you mentioned about the bad taste of the
Metronidazole, FYI our vet compounded it down and made a liquid out of it
using a feline vitamin as the base. We have to shake it pretty well before
giving it to him, but it seems to have dissolved quite well.
Here's one thing I'm a little concerned about. Our vet wants to keep him on
the i/d for a while. He seems to like it a lot ... he's eating enough of it,
as I said in an earlier post our vet told us to give him as much as he'll
eat, whenever he wants it ... and Lord knows it is DEFINITELY sticking to
his ribs, we can tell that because his ribs aren't sticking out anymore,
LOL!
However, Moses has had a history, throughout his life, of eventually getting
tired of one kind of food and becoming reluctant to eat it. He's still
eating the i/d fairly well as I said, but he's starting to nibble out of the
other cat's dish if there's some food left, although the vet didn't really
seem to be overly concerned about a stray nibble here or there.
If he does quit eating the i/d, I'll of course want to talk with the vet
about it, but just for informational purposes, can anybody suggest any
possible options that would be good for a cat with his history?
FYI, he's a canned food eater, always has been, he'd starve rather than eat
dry. Before we went to the i/d, we were pretty much feeding him Friskies
canned, Friskies pouch and Fancy Feast.
The vet may want to keep him on the i/d for a while, but at some point it's
likely that he'll come off it. I've researched all the various premium
brands (Wellness, Wysong, etc.) that have come out in the last few years and
have direct experience with Science Diet and Iams in the past. What has been
some of your experiences with these, as compared to the "regular" stuff you
get at Wal-Mart and the grocery store, especially with cats with intestinal
symptoms like Moses?
If we come off the prescription, I'm basically looking for something that
would be good for Moses but that Bartholemew could also eat and get proper
nutrition from as well, to kind of simplify things and cut down on the
problems of them eating out of each other's dishes (they've been together
for 14 years, and they lie next to each other and lick each other when we're
not looking, but at the food dish and when competing for my, my wife's and
my kids' attention, they are the picture of pea-green envy and jealousy).
One thing though, I know there are advocates of a raw diet, and I've
investigated that backward and forward, literally spent hours on the
Internet examining the pros and cons, and we're really not inclined to go
there with our cats. I'm not wanting to open a can of worms with anyone, if
you're getting good success with a raw diet, more power to you, if you don't
think it's the way to go, more power to you as well, and I'm not passing
judgment on who's wrong or right on that issue, we're just not inclined to
go there with our cats.
Thanks again for all the input.
[snip]
> With what we've been doing on the recommendation of our vet ... 1.6 cc
> Prednisone once daily, .5 cc Metronidazole twice daily and Hill's
> Prescription i/d diet, as much as he'll eat whenever he wants to eat it ...
> he's obviously beginning to put on weight, his coat is bright and shiny
> again and he's lost the sickly appearance that he had when he was so
> emaciated. He just seems so alert and alive again.
[snip]
This is the paragraph I was hoping to see, but honestly, your cat
sounded so ill that I didn't expect it ... wow. Just, wow. This is
wonderful news. I'm so happy for you and Moses!
To go from "should we euthanize our suffering cat?" to "glossy, shiny coat,
healthy appetite, alert and alive" ... what a wonderful transformation. And
what a wonderful owner, to research, pay the bills, and put in the effort to
bring Moses back to health. Congratulations to you!

Signature
monique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!*
> ... following up the continuing saga of our 14-year-old black neutered male
> Moses, he's made remarkable progress in the couple of weeks since we've
> finally gotten an idea of what was causing his weight loss, etc.
> With what we've been doing on the recommendation of our vet ... 1.6 cc
> Prednisone once daily, .5 cc Metronidazole twice daily
That's a drug protocol for IBD. Metronidazole and prednisone surpress the
immune system so its important to keep his litterbox immaculate.
and Hill's
> Prescription i/d diet, as much as he'll eat whenever he wants to eat it ...
> he's obviously beginning to put on weight, his coat is bright and shiny
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> In short, he appears to be getting back to his old self. It's like day and
> night compared to what he was when I first posted about him.
Yabba dabba doo! That's great news! That oughta teach you a thing or two
about the cat's indomitable spirt and unfathomable resilience! ;-)
> The instances of defecation outside the box have also lessened, although
> they haven't totally disappeared.
Sometimes when a cat experiences discomfort from pooping or peeing they
associate the discomfort with the litterbox and don't understand the
discomfort is comming from within themselves. If inappropriate elimination
persists, it can become a learned behavior.
Another possibility could be an aversion to the litter or the location of
the box. The box should be placed in a quiet low-traffic area - but where
you can still observe his litterbox behavior without disturbing him. You
might want to try moving the box to a different location and/or trying a
different litter.
You have another cat, correct? Is it possible the other cat attacked or
bothered him while he was using the box?
The problem just might resolve as he starts feeling better and starts
pooping normally again. I'm not one who says "wait and see what happens"
very often, but given his present stressful situation, I think I'd give him
a little more time to recover.
> An aside on that, he does have a low-sided box that is easy to get into and
> out of.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> we stand and how Moses is doing, and make a decision as to whether we want
> to proceed along those lines..
If he's improving so well, *don't change anything*! ;-) If he's digesting
most of his food and absorbing the nutrients, he may not need pan
enz supplements - although his symptoms seemed to point more to pancreas
involvement than IBD. I would still recommend a vitamin supplement -
especially fat soluble vitamins since he hasn't been digesting much fat.
> One thing if you're out there Phil, Moses' stool has changed from the
> yellowish tan color to a grayish color now, and it's been pretty
> consistently like that for several days now (after your post, I've begun
> watching it a little more closely), so I take it that's a good sign?
Kinda "clayish" color as I mentioned before? Yellowish tan
color stools are usually a result of undigested fat. The change in color
probably indicates that he's digesting more of his food - especially fat.
The color still ain't right - but hopefully it will continue to change back
to normal. Keep an eye on it - If his stools don't become progressively
darker in a few days, let your vet know.
It also
> appears to be much thicker consistency than it was when he was so sickly,
> although it's still not as solid as other cats', including our other
> 14-year-old orange tabby (FYI, his name is Bartholemew).
Give him t i m e. He also just had an abrupt change in diet. That alone
can cause diarrhea or cowpat stools. Just make sure he stays well hydrated -
even if you have to flavor the water.
> Another aside to Phil, you mentioned about the bad taste of the
> Metronidazole, FYI our vet compounded it down and made a liquid out of it
> using a feline vitamin as the base. We have to shake it pretty well before
> giving it to him, but it seems to have dissolved quite well.
That's a great idea. The vitamins will certainly help - especially the fat
soluble vitamins (A, D, E, K) since he hasn't been digesting much fat.
De?creased assimilation of fat can lead to hypovitamino?ses of fat-soluble
vitamins. Hypovitaminosis K can be especially *life-threatening*. B-12
should also help a lot along with folate.
> Here's one thing I'm a little concerned about. Our vet wants to keep him on
> the i/d for a while. He seems to like it a lot ... he's eating enough of it,
> as I said in an earlier post our vet told us to give him as much as he'll
> eat, whenever he wants it ... and Lord knows it is DEFINITELY sticking to
> his ribs, we can tell that because his ribs aren't sticking out anymore,
> LOL!
Aw, that's great! Soon you'll have a lean serene purring machine again!
> However, Moses has had a history, throughout his life, of eventually getting
> tired of one kind of food and becoming reluctant to eat it. He's still
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> about it, but just for informational purposes, can anybody suggest any
> possible options that would be good for a cat with his history?
Iams Low Residue - it's almost identical to i/d in nutrient content.
Purina CNM EN - is also very close to i/d - however, its a semi-moist diet,
not canned.
Purina OM - as a last resort - although the increased protein would probably
help restore muscle mass. OM is actually a weight-loss/weight maintainence
diet. However, the fat, CHO, and fiber are very close to that of i/d.
Speak to your vet if you have to feed this diet.
> FYI, he's a canned food eater, always has been, he'd starve rather than eat
> dry. Before we went to the i/d, we were pretty much feeding him Friskies
> canned, Friskies pouch and Fancy Feast.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Fancy Feast had something to do with
his problem - not only because its junk food. Many cats are wild about the
smell and taste (which decieves owners into thinking it's "good" food).
Fancy Feast is formulated more to attract cats than nutrition. The smell
and taste of food alone stimulates the release of gastric acids in cats.
Although I can't prove this, I wouldn't be surprised if the exceptional
aroma and palatability of FF contributed to hyperacidity - which in turn
degraded or destroyed some pancreatic enzymes. The fact he's digesting more
fat and nutrients since the diet change lends credence to this theory.
> The vet may want to keep him on the i/d for a while, but at some point it's
> likely that he'll come off it. I've researched all the various premium
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> get at Wal-Mart and the grocery store, especially with cats with intestinal
> symptoms like Moses?
Stay away from grocery and especially store brands like Wal-Mart. Store
brands are manufactured by obscure generic manufacturers. These companies
win store contracts by submitting the lowest bid. Thus they use the
cheapest poor quality raw materials they can find to compound diet for the
various store brands. These generic manufacturers usually make the same
diets for many different chains. Generic brands are no different from the
store name brands sold in large suppermarket chains - IOW, crap.
> If we come off the prescription, I'm basically looking for something that
> would be good for Moses but that Bartholemew could also eat and get proper
> nutrition from as well, to kind of simplify things and cut down on the
> problems of them eating out of each other's dishes
Hill's Senior 7+ Gourmet Turkey Entree has about the same fat content as i/d
but a little more fiber and protein. I'm not sure if the additional fiber
would interfere with Moses' absorption of nutrients - which can happen.
Wellness Turkey or Chicken have the right protein and fiber but too much
fat.
Your vet seems to feel, and Moses seems to be improving on a reduced fat
diet. So, look for foods with similar fat and fiber levels.
(they've been together
> for 14 years, and they lie next to each other and lick each other when we're
> not looking, but at the food dish and when competing for my, my wife's and
> my kids' attention, they are the picture of pea-green envy and jealousy).
They sound like normal cats to me! Although "normal cat" is an oxymoron!
LOL!
> One thing though, I know there are advocates of a raw diet, and I've
> investigated that backward and forward, literally spent hours on the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> judgment on who's wrong or right on that issue, we're just not inclined to
> go there with our cats.
Wise choice. You won't find many vets who will disagree with you on that.
> Thanks again for all the input.
I think Moses is on the road to a complete recovery!
Thanks for the update and really great news!
Keep the faith!
Phil
Are cats lazy? Well, more power to them if they are.
Which one of us has not entertained the dream of doing just as he likes,
when and how he likes, and as much as he likes? - Fernand Mery
Feline Healthcare & More: www.maxshouse.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline_Health_and_Behavior/