 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeDiscussion GroupsGeneral TopicsCat AnecdotesHealth and BehaviorRescue CatKB.com Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map |
Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / September 2003Ann MArtin claims debate
I thought I would start a new thread and the other is getting unwieldy. Let's take a look at this from another angle. ONLY for the sake of argument, let's suppose Ann Martin is right and all pet food contains large amounts of rejected meat meals from human processing, and all the dead cows and pigs from the feed lots. Just to make sure everyone understands - I disagree that such is the case for the major premium manufacturers and can state unequivocally it is not the case for Hill's. But just to take this debate further along let's assume the opposite. Please provide for me an example of a nutrient that is missing, or a nutrient that is in excess, *and* that has proven to be harmful at the level included in the final end product the consumer feeds. Don't waste our time with bogus claims of pentobarb, that's already been proven to be nothing more than scare tactics. Give me a nutrient in excess or a nutrient that is too low and then prove some harm has occurred. This needs to be factual, not opinion. Show us what disease, what deaths, etc have directly occurred because of this supposed contamination. Don't waste our time with Internet Fantasy from the lunatic fringe - provide us with some factual proof. >From: rosebrook@sbcglobal.net (Steve Crane) >Don't >waste our time with bogus claims of pentobarb, that's already been >proven to be nothing more than scare tactics. I came across this, from a government website. So I don't think these claims you say are bogus, are indeed bogus: http://www.fda.gov/cvm/efoi/DFChart.htm Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > I thought I would start a new thread and the other is getting > unwieldy. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > the major premium manufacturers and can state unequivocally it is not > the case for Hill's. First, I have never stated that "all pet food contains large amounts of rejected meat meals from human processing, and all the dead cows and pigs from the feed lots." Many do. As I have stated a number of times, MEAT MEAL, not chicken meat, not poultry meal, MEAT MEAL, is material from rendering plants and CAN contain, 4-D animals, road kill,(too large to be buried at road side), zoo animals, restaurant garbage and grease, grocery store garbage and euthanized dogs and cats. I might also add when I contacted David Dzanis, formerly with the CVM and asked if the "ingredient definitions" that the AAFCO publishes also applied to pet food, his reply was "YES". Maybe we should take a look at some of these tasty ingredients. "Dehydrated garbage," "Dehydrated Food Waste," "Hydrolysed hair," "Dried poultry Waste," "Dried Swine Waste," "Undried processed animal waste product," The latter is defined as "composed of excreta, with or without the litter, from poultry, ruminants, or any other animal except humans." Guess our pets would be getting all the nutrients they require in this mix. > But just to take this debate further along let's assume the opposite. > Please provide for me an example of a nutrient that is missing, or a [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > contamination. Don't waste our time with Internet Fantasy from the > lunatic fringe - provide us with some factual proof. Try zinc with a level of 1150 ppm? I could also state that three mycotoxins were also found in this "premium" pet food. > First, I have never stated that "all pet food contains large amounts > of rejected meat meals ...but you skillfully worded your phrases to leave the reader with the impression all pet food contains contaminated or rejected ingredients. Most pet owners know very little about feline nutrition and are very susceptible to ambiguous statements. So its easy for an author to phase a statement in such a way that the reader draws the conclusion the author wanted the reader to reach without the author being liable for making false statements. Do you have any actual formal training in veterinary nutrition, or do you just write books to make money by scaring people based on your own conclusions and agenda? Lets be realistic, if even 1/10 of your book was true, thousands of cats who eat commercial cat food would be dropping like flies every day instead of living well into their teens and early twenties.... At least you oppose raw feeding.. I'll give your book that. . "Phil P." <phil@maxshouse.com> wrote > > First, I have never stated that "all pet food contains large amounts > > of rejected meat meals [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > such a way that the reader draws the conclusion the author wanted the reader > to reach without the author being liable for making false statements. And what do you think is going into pet food? If it was meat, grains or fats found fit for human consumption they would not be using them in pet food. Meats, rejected, unfit for human consumption are used in pet food. Animals, that contain high levels of hormones and drugs are rejected for human consumption are dumped for pet food. Rendered material, a wide array of dead animals, are mixed together to produce meat meal. Talk to a meat inspector or an executive from a rendering plant and they will tell you what is going for pet food. > Do you have any actual formal training in veterinary nutrition, or do you > just write books to make money by scaring people based on your own > conclusions and agenda? These are not my "conclusions" or "agenda". Read the extensive endnotes in any of my books and you will see that ALL information comes from reputable sources. > Lets be realistic, if even 1/10 of your book was true, thousands of cats who > eat commercial cat food would be dropping like flies every day instead of > living well into their teens and early > twenties.... And thousands of cats did die from lack of taurine in the commercial pet foods. > At least you oppose raw feeding.. I'll give your book that. > > . > And what do you think is going into pet food? If it was meat, grains > or fats found fit for human consumption they would not be using them [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > meat meal. Talk to a meat inspector or an executive from a rendering > plant and they will tell you what is going for pet food. Again Ann, lets try this again. Let's assume all your allegatiosn are true, show us the proof os ANY negative harmful effects. Let's also keep in mind that you are suggesting to people they move to "human grade" foods. Now you need to prove that the pet foods you claim are WORSE than the human foods you think poeple should move to. I think you'd better do a bit more research on the incidence of disease in "human grade" foods and then come back and show us that pet foods have caused MORE disease than what you are suggesting. Meanwhile we'll just keep on ignoring REAL PROVEN disease like kidney failure exacerbated by high levels of phosphorus, sodium and calcium in diet - because what the heck it's only the second biggest REAL PROVEN killer of cats. > And thousands of cats did die from lack of taurine in the commercial > pet foods. Ahh, there you go back another couple decades. But wait we forgot something, millions of cats died from eating undetected levels of rancid fats up until the 1960's when we discoverd that an artificial antioxidant in cat food could stop that cause of death dead in it's tracks. Ooops can't talk about that since it was the awful evil ethoxyquin that saved millions of cats lives for 40 years. Never mind lets not let the facts get in the way of our agenda. > > At least you oppose raw feeding.. I'll give your book that. > > > > . > > I thought I would start a new thread and the other is getting > > unwieldy. [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > Try zinc with a level of 1150 ppm? I could also state that three > mycotoxins were also found in this "premium" pet food. My Father worked in a big well known bakery in the UK a few years back, once a week Waltham came to collect all the waste/out of date, cakes, bread etc to add to their feed, which was returned from the major super markets. Whiskers and Pedigree where made by Waltham, which is meant to be a good well know brand... terrible to then how many people are wasting their money on feeding their cats doughnuts! >My Father worked in a big well known bakery in the UK a few years back, once >a week Waltham came to collect all the waste/out of date, cakes, bread etc >to add to their feed, which was returned from the major super markets. >Whiskers and Pedigree where made by Waltham, which is meant to be a good >well know brand... terrible to then how many people are wasting their money >on feeding their cats doughnuts! If it went into animal feed at all it probably went into large animal feed. Many donut chains have their leftovers going to pig farmers for instance. The local Tim Hortons had been doing that for years even though I can't say for sure they still are. Maybe it fattens them up quicker. -mhd > >My Father worked in a big well known bakery in the UK a few years back, once > >a week Waltham came to collect all the waste/out of date, cakes, bread etc [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > -mhd It went into Waltham's food e.g. pedigree chum and whiskers, my Father spoke to the drivers, I am going back a few years BTW but at that time it was when UK where all advertising top breeders use it! and people were paying loads for it too. I emailed them to ask if they still put it in and the email I got back didn't say yes or no! maybe I may ask again and post the answer in here, so someone who knows what they are talking about can read it...... because it didn't make any sense to me (snip) >It went into Waltham's food e.g. pedigree chum and whiskers, my Father spoke >to the drivers, I am going back a few years BTW but at that time it was when [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >someone who knows what they are talking about can read it...... because it >didn't make any sense to me ----------------- Which would sort of go against the main tenor of the assertion here, since the bakery outtakes would be human grade food. A cheap source of carbohydrate and fat. I suppose trans fats aren't good for cats, either. liv liv@garbage.ziplink.net take out the garbage to reply... If you can't beat your computer at chess try kickboxing. >From: "~*SooZy*~" soozyqureshi@cathotmail.com >> rosebrook@sbcglobal.net (Steve Crane) wrote in message >news:<f3edd2d2.0308300553.45cc5e02@posting.google.com>... [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] >well know brand... terrible to then how many people are wasting their money >on feeding their cats doughnuts! No wonder there are some many obese cats! Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > My Father worked in a big well known bakery in the UK a few years back, once > a week Waltham came to collect all the waste/out of date, cakes, bread etc > to add to their feed, which was returned from the major super markets. > Whiskers and Pedigree where made by Waltham, which is meant to be a good > well know brand... terrible to then how many people are wasting their money > on feeding their cats doughnuts! Maybe then it's not so innapropriate that one of our kittens is named "Vash The Stampede". =^_^=  SignatureDennis Carr - ke6isf@spamcop.net | I may be out of my mind, http://www.dennis.furtopia.org | But I have more fun that way. ------------------------------------+------------------------------- >Try zinc with a level of 1150 ppm? I could also state that three >mycotoxins were also found in this "premium" pet food. OK, WHICH premium pet food are you referring to? > >Try zinc with a level of 1150 ppm? I could also state that three > >mycotoxins were also found in this "premium" pet food. > > OK, WHICH premium pet food are you referring to? Purina, and I have the reports from Mann Labs in Mississauga to confirm this was what was found in the food along with over 20 other metals. > Purina, and I have the reports from Mann Labs in Mississauga to > confirm this was what was found in the food along with over 20 other > metals. Can we see these reports? > > Purina, and I have the reports from Mann Labs in Mississauga to > > confirm this was what was found in the food along with over 20 other > > metals. > > Can we see these reports? No problem, if you want to give me your address I will copy and mail them to you. My scanner is out of operation at the present time. Ann Is this your correct email address? anmartin1@rogers.com > > > Purina, and I have the reports from Mann Labs in Mississauga to > > > confirm this was what was found in the food along with over 20 other [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Ann >> >Try zinc with a level of 1150 ppm? I could also state that three >> >mycotoxins were also found in this "premium" pet food. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >confirm this was what was found in the food along with over 20 other >metals. No, please be more specific. I know you like to throw around generalities, but I want to know WHICH Purina product....exactly? > > >Try zinc with a level of 1150 ppm? I could also state that three > > >mycotoxins were also found in this "premium" pet food. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > confirm this was what was found in the food along with over 20 other > metals. Since you have the report handy you won't mind giving us the exact levels of those "other 20 metals" will you. And of course the source where this information was published. Otherwise all we have (AGAIN) is your "claims" which have lately been found to be mostly false. Time to put up or shut up Martin. |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.