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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / January 2005How to Discipline/Train a Kitten
Hi! Labor day weekend, we took in Eddy, a small kitten that was dumped in the country. He's been the sweetest kitten, deciding for himself that he is my infant daughter's pet. He's been neutered, wearing soft claws, and now about 8 months old. Eddy has what I call a "whatever" attitude. Not a definite teenager "WHAT-ever," but a very accommodating "whatever y'all want to do is fine with me." This has meant he likes people, car rides, the application of soft paws, and about a million other things. We love this easy-going disposition, except for one minor thing. Every now and then he does something rather naughty. Never mean-spirited--more of a display of kitten exuberance. But it is something we wish to discourage: * Climb the counter * Climb us while we prepare food on the counter * Chase/wrestle our older cat (who doesn't like it, but won't take aggressive action) * "Rough" play with our daughter (we supervise, but sometimes it slips through) I want to train him without destroying the parts we love of his character. The problem is most of what we have come up with has limited effect at best: 1. We've tried water, but he merely looks at us vaguely dumbfounded (Eddy has been known to jump in the shower) 2. Loud noises get his attention for only a moment (and scare the other cat) 3. We do "time outs," but I'm not sure he knows what's going on--by the time we get him to the "time out" spot, he may have forgotten he was doing wrong, and thinks it's just attention. Obviously, we know better than to do any corporal punishment (whacking with a newspaper, etc.), and do not intent to do so. The other gotcha is that, by the time we get to him, he may have discontinued his behavior. Are there any suggestions about what we can do? I do want to train him, but can't find an effective way to deter behavior. Thanks, Charles [snip] > The other gotcha is that, by the time we get to him, he may have > discontinued his behavior. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Thanks, Charles Hi, Charles! I had no idea what I was doing with Oscar, who's my first cat, so I guess I'm pretty lucky that she's reasonably well-behaved. I can't give you much advice. The one thing I can say is, if he's discontinued his behavior, punishing or correcting him won't work. You need to catch him in the act, or he'll have no idea why whatever's happening to him is happening. A lot of people say that you want the cat to associate the punishment with the thing the cat's supposed to avoid (counter, curtains, etc) and not with you. For some behaviors that's easier than others. How old is your daughter? Is she old enough to be taught how to gently correct the kitten?  Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* Daughter is actually younger than the kitten--she's three months. All interactions are supervised, but some things give us pause. It has had a few cute moments--him giving her a kiss goodnight, and sleeping on the couch with her. I think sometimes he gets upset with us if we let her cry too long. I know about catching in the act/not associating with us--hence squirting water and loud noises. Alas, he is very "whatever" about that. > Daughter is actually younger than the kitten--she's three months. All > interactions are supervised, but some things give us pause. It has had a few > cute moments--him giving her a kiss goodnight, and sleeping on the couch > with her. I think sometimes he gets upset with us if we let her cry too > long. I imagine this could be tough, as "normal" kitten things that you might tolerate or even encourage around adults or older children could be scary around your little girl. I hope some of the parents on this NG can give you some advice. Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* > > Daughter is actually younger than the kitten--she's three months. All > > interactions are supervised, but some things give us pause. It has had a few [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > around your little girl. I hope some of the parents on this NG can give you > some advice. I'm not a parent, but I got a nasty corneal scratch from my (at the time) two month-old kitten this past fall. I was on two topical antibiotics, one oral antibiotic, and one anaesthetizing eyedrop for a week afterwards. Not to freak out the parents too much, both for the obvious reason (cats and kids are an excellent mix!) and also because the OP's kitten is considerably older so may not be batting at everything that moves quite as much these days, but I'd be a little careful. Priscilla, queen of the convoluted sentence who sees fine out of both eyes now -- well, if you discount her bifocals >>> Daughter is actually younger than the kitten--she's three months. All >>> interactions are supervised, but some things give us pause. It has had a few [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Priscilla, queen of the convoluted sentence who sees fine out of both > eyes now -- well, if you discount her bifocals He said the cat is wearing soft paws so I don't think that should be much of an issue. It sounds to me that most of the things mentioned will be "grown" out of as the kitten gets older. Just be consistent. Put the cat OUT of the kitchen (in the bedroom if necessary) while preparing food (consistantly) and before long he won't climb you for it. Put obstacles on the counter for when you are not around, or sticky double sided tape or plastic runners for the hallway, nubby side up with the nubby stuff worn down. Supervise with the baby (what incidents gave you pause?) Yes, they do get upset when babies cry. They know it is a baby and upset. Overall, sounds like a pretty darn well behaved kitten. > >>> Daughter is actually younger than the kitten--she's three months. All > >>> interactions are supervised, but some things give us pause. It has had a few [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > He said the cat is wearing soft paws so I don't think that should be much of > an issue. Oh, right. *duh* Never mind. > It sounds to me that most of the things mentioned will be "grown" > out of as the kitten gets older. Just be consistent. Put the cat OUT of the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > cry. They know it is a baby and upset. Overall, sounds like a pretty darn > well behaved kitten. All good advice. Priscilla > * Climb the counter Loose aluminum cans, or squirt the cat with a water gun when it does this. Frankly, at times, I've used a broom, but many others wouldn't agree with that. > * Climb us while we prepare food on the counter Again, water gun, or yelling VERY loudy the INSTANT it does it. Well you said you tried water, but if they look dumbfounded then I don't know. LRH >> * Climb the counter > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Well you said you tried water, but if they look dumbfounded then I don't > know. For any of those behaviors, I think I just exclaimed "Hey!" (not VERY loudly, but not quietly either) and removed Oscar from the undesirable location. I just replaced my old footlocker, on which Oscar was allowed, with a chest of drawers, which I'd prefer to keep Oscar-free. Nowadays, Oscar knows me well enough that all I have to do is say "Oscar" in a drawn-out, warning tone and she'll hop right off. She actually is pretty good about knowing what she's doing that's bothering me. The trick is getting her not to do it again right after she's stopped. But since kittenhood, she's never gotten onto kitchen counters. I like to think that I had something to do with that. Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* > Hi! > Obviously, we know better than to do any corporal punishment (whacking > with a newspaper, etc.), and do not intent to do so. Okay, I usually sit here and don't say anything in these posts as a flame-avoidance measure, but sometimes a girl's just gotta speak up. Look at how mother cats discipline their kittens - they smack them. They don't smack them hard, just enough to shock, but if the kitten's doing something mum doesn't like, it'll more than likely get a quick application of a paw. I disciplined my cats this way when they were kittens - and yes, I used loud disapproving "No"s and hisses as well. But sometimes, if they were within reach while doing what they weren't meant to , they got a smack. Not a hard smack (yes, you have to be very careful, because kittens are small), but one they weren't expecting. And it was always accompanied by a loud "No". They knew they'd been disciplined and, because it was instant, they knew what it was for. They learned very quickly. I think the "never, ever hit a cat" brigade miss the point. This is how they discipline one another. The challenge, as humans, is to realise how much more powerful we are than them and know what is appropriate force and what isn't. But most cat lovers are intelligent to work that one out. >> Hi! > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > more powerful we are than them and know what is appropriate force and what > isn't. But most cat lovers are intelligent to work that one out. Well, I don't know if you've noticed, but mama cats are much smaller than humans and know how hard they are bapping. I also do not trust most humans to know how much force they are using in comparison to kitten size. There are plenty of safe effective ways to train and discipline, why encourage this? > Well, I don't know if you've noticed, but mama cats are much smaller than > humans and know how hard they are bapping. Hence my comments about being aware of this. I also do not trust most humans > to know how much force they are using in comparison to kitten size. I disagree. If it's a smack from your hand only (not your arm or body) you are not using much force. Most of us are intelligent enough to know the difference between a kitten stopping in it's tracks and going "You, what?" and a kitten running in fear. There > are plenty of safe effective ways to train and discipline, why encourage > this? Because this can be a safe and effective and quick, available form of discipline when that is called for. All I'm saying is that the "never, never smack a cat" brigade are being unrealistic. Trying to talk to your cat doesn't, actually work. >All I'm saying is that the "never, never >smack a cat" brigade are being >unrealistic. Only an animal abuser promotes this point of view. There is no reason to hit a cat and there are always alternatives. If you are unable to get cats to do what you want without resorting to violence then you have no business having cats. I have 24 cats and I don't have to hit them to get them to mind. I use distraction and "the happy voice" and get great results. Using methods that instill fear and pain are not an option. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray >>All I'm saying is that the "never, never smack a cat" brigade are being >>unrealistic. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Megan Wow, black and white much? When Oscar bit me as a kitten, there were times when I did bap her, lightly. She doesn't hate me and I don't consider it violence. She didn't run away, but she did stop what she was doing. I think it was Phil P. who, when I enquired about having used that approach, said that it wasn't a bad thing, as that's what mom cats do. I guess he's an animal abuser, too. (If I got the person wrong and it was actually jack the ripper who encouraged bapping, then my bad.) Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* >>All I'm saying is that the "never, never >>smack a cat" brigade are being >>unrealistic. > > Only an animal abuser promotes this point of view. Yeah, yeah, yeah. > >>All I'm saying is that the "never, never > >>smack a cat" brigade are being [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Yeah, yeah, yeah. "Zuzu's" main objective appears to be to get her panties in a knot. I think she likes them there. > Because this can be a safe and effective and quick, available form of > discipline when that is called for. Many people think belting a kid is a safe and effective way to discipline them, as well. > All I'm saying is that the "never, never > smack a cat" brigade are being unrealistic. Trying to talk to >your cat > doesn't, actually work. Never hit a cat. They don't understand it and only think you are being abusive. Hissing is a much better deterrent, as well as redirection. My cats klnow what "no", "go" and "off" means. Talking to them works quite well. -L. > Never hit a cat. They don't understand it and only think you are being > abusive. Hissing is a much better deterrent, This sound s like a cracking idea. Cats hiss at each other when they're annoyed, so they should understand what a human means by hissing at them. One thing I've been meaning to find out is whether stroking a cat is a sign of dominance or submission. I assume that our stroking a cat equates to another cat licking it. So which is the dominant cat; the licker or the lickee? I hope it's the former, as i enoying stroking the cats, they seem to enjoy it (I'm always cautious about anthropomorhising and assigning human feelings to other species) and I'm told it's good for my blood pressure. If it makes them think I'm the boss as well, then great! SignatureZ www.makepovertyhistory.org >> Never hit a cat. They don't understand it and only think you are being >> abusive. Hissing is a much better deterrent, > > This sound s like a cracking idea. Cats hiss at each other when they're > annoyed, so they should understand what a human means by hissing at them. Yep, they most definitely do. It's quite funny to see the look on their face - it's sort of "Wow, I didn't think humans did that". But they know what it means all right. >-L." <usenetlyn@yahoo.com> wrote in message >news:1106236772.291095.155250@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... > > Many people think belting a kid is a safe and effective way to > discipline them, as well. Too many think it isn't, like the lady on the bus today whose child kept yacking and yelling and so on & so forth and she wouldn't do anything about it. She cared not a lick about how much that noise was aggravating every one around them. When I was that age, such misbehavior would earn me a red behind, and rightly so. LRH > >-L." <usenetlyn@yahoo.com> wrote in message > >news:1106236772.291095.155250@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > LRH You know, I would like to slap you right now. >> >-L." <usenetlyn@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> >news:1106236772.291095.155250@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >You know, I would like to slap you right now. Me too.............. karryl I don't know if this will help, but for our kittens, we leave them in the bathroom when we are away. They have fresh litter, water, food, and toys there and we know where they won't be in our house! ;-) Ashley wrote: > > Well, I don't know if you've noticed, but mama cats are much smaller than > > humans and know how hard they are bapping. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > smack a cat" brigade are being unrealistic. Trying to talk to your cat > doesn't, actually work. I agree. I try when I can to communicate with my cats in ways that are natural for *them*. We, as humans, have brains that are able to accomodate communicating in someone else's terms, while cats have a harder time understanding some other species means of communication. However, I, also as a human, also have a personal emotion response to physical violence -- I find it distressing. Thus I have a hard time using a quick smack on my (now half-grown) kitten. I was, however, very conscious of feeling a sense of relief when he at the age of 12 weeks was finally tested negative for contagious nasties and released into the general population in my house because it meant that he would then be susceptible to feline discipline from the three adult cats. They're very free with their paws, accompanied by some very bad feline language. So the kid is getting properly whacked now, but not by the human who would feel really bad about doing it. It's a mixed bag -- gathering the knowledge of how best to do things but dealing with all the layers of human stuff that we pile on top of it. Priscilla > > > Well, I don't know if you've noticed, but mama cats are much smaller than > > > humans and know how hard they are bapping. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > It's a mixed bag -- gathering the knowledge of how best to do things but > dealing with all the layers of human stuff that we pile on top of it. Very nicely put. I completely agree with Ashley. I have at times even used a broom when a cat wouldn't do as I say. I want to use a water gun, but the thing is--no matter how hard I try, I can NEVER NEVER and I mean NEVER find that blasted water gun at the crucial moment. It's just simply never around, no matter how much effort I put into having it in a given place at any given time. The thing to do is to not beat the snot out of the cat like you're tackling a guy in football, but otherwise, yeah--smack away. LRH I cannot imagine hitting a animal with my hand or any other object. My voice is the only thing I needed to train my cats. Treats and praise also helped. I guess you are old school. If you think hitting is effective then why does your cat continue to misbehave? Corporal punishment does not work. You prove it every you hit your pets, kids.... Thank you. >I cannot imagine hitting a animal >with my hand or any other object. My [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >kids.... >Thank you. I always wonder why people think hitting a child or pet works. I see it all the time and they get the same result out of both....fear. Karryl > >I cannot imagine hitting a animal > >with my hand or any other object. My [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Karryl Yep. No better way to cultivate mistrust. -L. . >> >I cannot imagine hitting a animal >> >with my hand or any other object. My [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > -L. This is true. I have never seen better proof of this than what happened at my 3 year old cousin's birthday party. He was trying to hug his sister (about 6 months old at the time) and his uncle thought he was being too rough. He grabbed him by the shoulder, quite roughly and dragged him over a bit to where he was sitting. He shouted at him " you're being TOO ROUGH" and smacked his a.s. So here is this 28 year old pulling a 3 year old's arm from its socket and hitting him for being so rough when all the 3 year old was doing is hugging his sister??? > .. > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > its socket and hitting him for being so rough when all the 3 year old was > doing is hugging his sister??? Reminds me when my father would yell, "quit that &*^*%*^% swearing!" > > >I cannot imagine hitting a animal > > >with my hand or any other object. My [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > >continue to misbehave? Corporal > > >punishment does not work. /snip/ > > I always wonder why people think hitting a child or pet works. I see > > it all the time and they get the same result out of both....fear. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > -L. And to increase stress, which can worsen the behavior they're punishing -- if it's a stress-related behavior in the first place. Like if they hit a baby for sucking his thumb. Margaret S. SignatureNothing I say is professional advice. Consult your own doctor, lawyer, veterinarian, butcher, baker, and candlestick maker. > > >I cannot imagine hitting a animal > > >with my hand or any other object. My [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > -L. Very true. Like the old saying, "if you can dish it out but you can't take it you need to hand in your spoon." :)
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