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Bengal cats question

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B B - 14 Jan 2005 09:37 GMT
Hello...I was thinking of buying a Bengal cat. A person told me these
cats really like water, and will even walk in the shower sometimes....is
this true? If so, is it rare or common with this breed?

      I think the Bengals look pretty cool...those with the gold coat
with black dots are my favorite...very wild looking. Anything major to
know about this breed? I have always owned a short haired tabby.
I.P.Freely - 14 Jan 2005 10:25 GMT
> Hello...I was thinking of buying a Bengal cat. A person told me these
> cats really like water, and will even walk in the shower sometimes....is
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> with black dots are my favorite...very wild looking. Anything major to
> know about this breed? I have always owned a short haired tabby.

Aparently yes, Bengals and Turkish Vans both generally like to play with
water. Especially swatting running water from taps. :)

Signature

I.P.Freely

Kelly - 14 Jan 2005 17:36 GMT
You must research the breeders and the breed (which I assume is why you're
posting!) before you purchase.

Bengals are a cross with a with a *wild* cat called the Asian Leopard Cat.
When you research your breeders, it is best to buy from a breeder that has
LATE generations of this cat.  So for instance, the mating between the wild
cat and the domestic cat gives us the F1 generation.  An F1 generation bred
with another domestic cat will give us an F2 generation.  So the farther
down you go, there is a little less of the actual wildcat in the breed.

I talked to an expert who recommended no lower than the F5 generation.
These cats have the markings of the leopard cat, but have really great
personalities and are very cuddly cats.  If you purchase an F1 generation
from a breeder who is still breeding the original leopard cats to domestic
cats, these cats are what they are, **practically wild**.  They tend not to
be very cuddly and are quite independant.  They are also more resistant to
training and will want to JUMP JUMP JUMP all over anything, so don't expect
to keep them off your kitchen counters.  Of course this is a generalization,
just like anything, but your taking a gamble.

So all I can stress is that you must research your breeders, ask them what
generation the cats are, or you might be disappointed and get a cat that is
not affectionate and is actually more trouble than it's worth!

Kelly

> Hello...I was thinking of buying a Bengal cat. A person told me these
> cats really like water, and will even walk in the shower sometimes....is
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> with black dots are my favorite...very wild looking. Anything major to
> know about this breed? I have always owned a short haired tabby.
catlvr - 14 Jan 2005 17:41 GMT
It is true that Bengals generally like water, but cats are like people,
and every one will have their own personality. There is lots of
information on the internet about Bengals. My neighbours have one and
adore him - they say he doesn't shed. If you buy one, buy at least an
F4 (fourth generation removed from the original wild cat from which it
was bred) otherwise some of the wilder attributes may be present.

Best of all, go to your local shelter and rescue a cat. Purebreds are
prone to all sorts of health problems because of inbreeding (and
Bengals are a relatively new breed) and my experience with breeders has
been very bad.
Monique Y. Mudama - 14 Jan 2005 17:51 GMT
> It is true that Bengals generally like water, but cats are like people, and
> every one will have their own personality. There is lots of information on
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> to all sorts of health problems because of inbreeding (and Bengals are a
> relatively new breed) and my experience with breeders has been very bad.

If the OP is really crazy about Bengals, maybe there's a Bengal rescue group
that has cats in need of homes?

Signature

monique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eros was adopted!  Eros has a home now!  *cheer!*

Joe - 14 Jan 2005 18:03 GMT
I have a Bengal and love her. I'm getting a Snow Marble later this year. My
Rhiannon crys outside the shower stall till I'm done and she can go in and
play. the water doesn't last long though. Some will get in the bathtub or
even use the pool. I suggest going to shows and talking to the breeders.
Some breed for looks without much concern for temperment. I use Adventure
Beach Bengals in south Florida ( http://www.bengal-cat.net  ). She breeds
for looks AND temperment.
Joe
www.isleofavaloncathaven.com
> Hello...I was thinking of buying a Bengal cat. A person told me these
> cats really like water, and will even walk in the shower sometimes....is
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> with black dots are my favorite...very wild looking. Anything major to
> know about this breed? I have always owned a short haired tabby.
Cat Protector - 14 Jan 2005 18:48 GMT
Adopt a cat from the shelter. So many need good and loving homes and are
also cool.

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Cat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time!
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> Hello...I was thinking of buying a Bengal cat. A person told me these
> cats really like water, and will even walk in the shower sometimes....is
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> with black dots are my favorite...very wild looking. Anything major to
> know about this breed? I have always owned a short haired tabby.
Orchid - 14 Jan 2005 20:21 GMT
>Hello...I was thinking of buying a Bengal cat. A person told me these
>cats really like water, and will even walk in the shower sometimes....is
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>with black dots are my favorite...very wild looking. Anything major to
>know about this breed? I have always owned a short haired tabby.

Heh.  I have two show alters, and I love them dearly, but there are
some things you should know before you start looking for a breeder.

1. Bengals are active cats. Really active. Like eleven on a 1-10
scale active. There is no shelf they cannot get onto, no mantel
that's safe from kitty romping. Knicknacks that aren't stuck down
with museum wax aren't going to survive. 16 week old Bengal kittens
can jump from the floor to the top of the fridge.

2. Bengals are high-maintanance pets. They need attention, and they
need company. If you work outside the house, do yourself a favour and
get two Bengals or a Bengal and another high-energy cat. Otherwise
you *must* expect to spend 3-4 hours playing with and interacting with
your cat. That drops to 1-2 hours if there are two of them. They
need interactive play -- if they don't get it they will do anything
and everything they can to get your attention. Remember those
stuck-down knicknacks? They're history if you don't give your Bengal
enough attention.

3. Bengals are smart. Spooky smart. They work together and teach
each other things. My boys can open both the fridge and the freezer,
can open baby locks (Temujin pulls the door open, Kefka swats at the
latch), can open cabinets, open drawers, and have almost mastered the
round doorknob. They must have sufficient mental stimulation or they
get bored. Bored Bengals make up Bengal games. Humans generally do
not like Bengal games, as Bengal games often involve swatting things
(like stuck down knicknacks) off high places.

4. Bengals are not decorative. Okay, they're decorative when they
are tired, but most of the time they are spotted and marbled blurs of
activity. They will not lounge around prettily for admiration -- they
want to be doing what you are doing, helping with whatever you're
doing.

5. Bengals are *big* cats. Males are 15-20 pounds of muscle fully
grown, and females are 10-15. Both sexes are very long bodied -- my
boys are ~22 inches from shoulders to tail base. When they stand on
their hind legs, they can touch my waist easily. A well-bred Bengal
is an incredible cat -- friendly, affectionate, confident. A
poorly-bred Bengal is a nightmare because of their size and strength.

6. Bengals are heavy scratchers. You can forget about those wimpy
little 2' carpet-covered scratching posts at Petsmart -- posts for
Bengals need to be tall and heavy. Cat trees are best -- and
expensive. If you don't provide enough places to scratch, your
furniture is history, and declawed Bengals are usually biters.

7. Bengals are greedy. I am a professional trainer, and my cats are
very well trained with ~20 behaviours including dog-style obedience,
stupid tricks, and agility. I cannot train them to stay off counters
and cannot train them to leave food alone. All the usual methods
(aluminum foil, upside-down carpet runners, citrus, cans full of
pennies, etc) simply do not work. Bengals will be good until you
remove the offending object (carpet runner, etc) and will then hop
right up again. They are too smart to think that the counter is doing
anything to them.

8. Bengals like water. Which, granted, is pretty cool -- having a
cat join you in the shower or hop into your hot bath to swim around is
neat. But it also means that squirt guns are useless. And guests are
often not amused. :)

9. Did I mention that they're active? Because they really really
are. I often compare them to Border Collies when trying to get across
how active they are. They need the mental stimulation of a job of
some sort, which is why my boys are clicker-trained.

10. They're expensive. No, you can't cut corners by buying out of
the newspaper. Well-bred, well-socialised Bengals generally start
around $400 for a pet-quality and can go all the way up to over $1000
for a show alter.

If you still are interested in a Bengal, read the Guide in my sig, and
please feel free to email me with any questions.  As well, join
Bengals-L on yahoogroups.

Orchid
See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage
Want a Purebred Cat?  Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid
Cat Protector - 14 Jan 2005 20:47 GMT
With the exception of the 15-20 pounds part you are also describing a
Japanese Bobtail. They too are an active breed and also open cabinets, knock
things off shelves, etc. They are not too high in maintenance because of
their single layer coat but they do like to be around their favorite human.
They also seem to have no problem with water but do know they don't like the
squirt bottle as my Icarus has shown. You also have a hard time keeping them
off the counters because they are the most difficult to train not to do
something. They can be a very stubborn breed and they are highly
intelligent.

They also can be escape artists. My Icarus has escaped outside so many times
that you have to be quick to catch him. Because of his powerful hind legs,
Icarus was able to jump up to the top of a cat enclosure I have on the back
porch and would have gone over had I not been there to grab him. In fact he
actually jumped up on the side of a thick post in order to propel him to the
top. Bobtails also like to scratch as well and as a result I may be getting
a new scratching post soon. They also are good eaters and is the type of
breed you won't see getting fat anytime soon. They are also fast runners and
can sometimes use their back legs to propel them like a jack rabbit. They
can be a handful and somewhat vocal. I have read somewhere that some people
think they can actually sing but my Icarus would rather meow and yowel to
the point of obnoxiousness which I have read is part of the breed's nature.

I have also learned that a Bobtail can be somewhat protective of the
household. Whenever Icarus hears what he thinks might be someone or
something outside approaching he will growl a little and go into his "red
alert" mode and run into the room closest to the sound. Bobtails can be
loving of their humans and will often attach themselves to one human. Some
will be so attached that they will follow the person from room to room, jump
in their lap and of course want to sleep near or next to their human
servent. Icarus often wants to be near me and will of course protect his
position from the other two cats. Like the Bengals the JBT also needs
constant stimulation to keep from getting board. Bobtails are medium sized
cats and often as kittens grow up quickly.

Signature

Cat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time!
www.catgalaxymedia.com

Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of Your Computer Needs!
www.panthertekit.com

>>Hello...I was thinking of buying a Bengal cat. A person told me these
>>cats really like water, and will even walk in the shower sometimes....is
[quoted text clipped - 83 lines]
> See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage
> Want a Purebred Cat?  Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid
Rene S. - 14 Jan 2005 20:41 GMT
I don't know where you live, but please consider adopting a rescued or
shelter Bengal, if that's what you truly want. This is a great site,
which includes the US and Canada: http://www.petfinder.com
You can search your ZIP code by type of animal. What's great is
shelters and rescue groups have adoptable animals posted, often with
links to their site.

Rene
Cat Protector - 14 Jan 2005 20:50 GMT
That is a good suggestion. Most people would be surprised to see how many
purebred cats end up in shelters or dumped on the streets to fend for
themselves. I found my Japanese Bobtail Icarus as a stray.

Signature

Cat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time!
www.catgalaxymedia.com

Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of Your Computer Needs!
www.panthertekit.com

>I don't know where you live, but please consider adopting a rescued or
> shelter Bengal, if that's what you truly want. This is a great site,
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Rene
Orchid - 14 Jan 2005 20:58 GMT
>I don't know where you live, but please consider adopting a rescued or
>shelter Bengal, if that's what you truly want. This is a great site,
>which includes the US and Canada: http://www.petfinder.com

    Sadly, 90% of the 'Bengals' on Petfinder are not.  Since
Bengals are a popular breed, anything with a spot anywhere on its body
is dubbed a Bengal by most shelters.  While I am sure they are still
wonderful cats, they are not Bengals and will probably not have the
qualities that the OP is looking for.  Your best bet on Petfinder is
to inquire with Bengal Rescue.

Orchid
See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage
Want a Purebred Cat?  Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid
Monique Y. Mudama - 14 Jan 2005 21:17 GMT
>>I don't know where you live, but please consider adopting a rescued or
>>shelter Bengal, if that's what you truly want. This is a great site, which
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>     is looking for.  Your best bet on Petfinder is to inquire with Bengal
>     Rescue.

Unless what the OP really wants is a sedate cat with pretty looks, in which
case the breed really doesn't matter, just certain fur traits!

Signature

monique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eros was adopted!  Eros has a home now!  *cheer!*

Orchid - 14 Jan 2005 21:50 GMT
>>>I don't know where you live, but please consider adopting a rescued or
>>>shelter Bengal, if that's what you truly want. This is a great site, which
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>Unless what the OP really wants is a sedate cat with pretty looks, in which
>case the breed really doesn't matter, just certain fur traits!

    Absolutely.  :)  In that case, *please* adopt any other cat
than a Bengal.  Bengals are not for the faint of heart.  :D
    However, IIRC, the OP was asking about the liking water, which
is an inherited trait.

    As I type this, Temujin (one of my Bengals) is standing in the
hall trying out various of his calls to see which resonate the most
impressively.  I really need to remember to mention the Bengal voice
-- which is operatic to say the least.

Orchid
See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage
Want a Purebred Cat?  Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid
Cat Protector - 15 Jan 2005 00:30 GMT
Most shelters? I have seen hardly any that put Bengal in the discription.

Signature

Cat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time!
www.catgalaxymedia.com

Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of Your Computer Needs!
www.panthertekit.com

> Sadly, 90% of the 'Bengals' on Petfinder are not.  Since
> Bengals are a popular breed, anything with a spot anywhere on its body
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage
> Want a Purebred Cat?  Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid
Mary - 15 Jan 2005 00:38 GMT
> >I don't know where you live, but please consider adopting a rescued or
> >shelter Bengal, if that's what you truly want. This is a great site,
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> qualities that the OP is looking for.  Your best bet on Petfinder is
> to inquire with Bengal Rescue.

You can look at the eye color and body shape of many of
these cats and tell they do indeed have Bengal bloodlines.
It is not necessary for someone to pay $400-$1000 for
a cat when others have done so and thrown said cat
away. Have a heart, will you?
KellyH - 15 Jan 2005 00:46 GMT
> You can look at the eye color and body shape of many of
> these cats and tell they do indeed have Bengal bloodlines.
> It is not necessary for someone to pay $400-$1000 for
> a cat when others have done so and thrown said cat
> away. Have a heart, will you?

If the OP is dead set on a purebred Bengal (which it didn't really sound
like) then Petfinder probably won't do it for him, but I would advise to
check with a Bengal rescue.  If OP just wants a cat that looks like a Bengal
and acts sort of like one, then Petfinder should do just fine.

We get people at the shelter looking, for instance, for a Maine Coon (most
common breed request we get).  They come in, see a longhair with some ear
tufts, and squeal "oooh it's a MC!"  I tell them, no not really, may have a
MC ancestor way back, but we don't know.  Then they will say yes it is, look
at this, blah blah.  I don't say anything and just let them think whatever
they want to think.  Hey, I still try to convince DH that NewCat is a
British Shorthair, just for fun.

Signature

-Kelly
kelly at farringtons dot net
"Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG

Mary - 15 Jan 2005 00:55 GMT
> > You can look at the eye color and body shape of many of
> > these cats and tell they do indeed have Bengal bloodlines.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> check with a Bengal rescue.  If OP just wants a cat that looks like a Bengal
> and acts sort of like one, then Petfinder should do just fine.

Have you actually looked at the so-called Bengal mixes at Petfinder?
Some are certainly spotted tabbies, but others you can TELL have
Bengal in them. There was apparently a big rescue operation out
west that involved hundreds of Bengal and other breeder cats.
I was amazed when I looked at the search results. (I looked because
I thought I might like to rescue a Bengal mix.)
Orchid - 15 Jan 2005 15:15 GMT
>You can look at the eye color and body shape of many of
>these cats and tell they do indeed have Bengal bloodlines.
>It is not necessary for someone to pay $400-$1000 for
>a cat when others have done so and thrown said cat
>away. Have a heart, will you?

    I am going to have to disagree with you about the conformation
on many of the alleged Bengals.  Allow me to get one thing out at the
beginning.  != Bengal DOES NOT mean != good.  Like I said before,
wonderful, loving, deserving cats -- just not Bengals.   I think part
of my position on this issue (which has come up before) comes from
what breed *I* own -- because Bengals have become very popular, many
shelters are labelling anything with a spot anywhere on the body as a
'Bengal'. You may not be aware of this, but some states are outlawing
hybrid anything because of problems with wolf-dog hybrids. Because of
this, Bengals, which are loving domestic cats with fantastic
temperaments are being banned as 'vicious'. Bengals are illegal in
Georgia, Denver, and Conneticut, and legislation has been considered
in New York State as well. The only defense we Bengal owners have is
to introduce the public to our breed's incredible temperaments.
       So what happens when a shelter adopts out a 'Bengal mix' with
an uncertain temperament? What happens if the cat hurts someone?
Is the cat described as a domestic shorthair? No. The cat is
described as a Bengal, which gives anti-Bengal people another piece of
ammunition.

       The other part is how totally unfair it is to the cat.  A cat
does not have to be a Bengal in order to be beautiful and worthy of a
home. I'll go over the first few cats listed as Bengals/Bengal mixes
on Petfinder (that do not have papers associated with them, as a few
do -- more on that gripe later).

http://makeashorterlink.com/?E24812E3A *might* have some Bengal blood.
The temperament sounds pretty close, and her many conformation flaws
could simply be poor breeding (which is pretty much a given, as she
was apparantly a stray).

http://makeashorterlink.com/?G15852E3A is *not* a Bengal.  He is a
brown mackeral tabby with some broken stripes.  His conformation is
entirely wrong (cobby head, big pointed ears on top of his head,
short-bodied (as compared to a Bengal)).  His coat pattern is entirely
wrong -- big clear tabby 'M', vertical stripes all over, no spots on
his tummy, and ticking, ticking, ticking.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?S56812E3A is another brown mackeral
tabby.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?H27854E3A is yet another brown mackeral
tabby (though I find her lack of an 'M' to be intriguing and
jealousy-inducing) with a short, cobby body.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?W68815E3A is so young and it's such a bad
picture for determining conformation that it's difficult to be exact
about his Bengal status.  Good breed-determinant pictures have a full
face shot, a profile shot, and a body shot in profile.  But, from his
head I'd say his ears are wrong (very large and pointed), his 'M' is
the most clearly defined M I've ever seen, and his nose is black
(Bengal noses are brick-red outlined in black).  But he's adorable and
I just want to cuddle him all day.  :)

http://makeashorterlink.com/?E1A851E3A is probably a Bengal.  A
really, really overweight Bengal, which is just wrong. Her spotting is
awfully vertical, but not every Bengal has good coat.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?S4C825E3A is, for the love of goddess,
not a Bengal.  A classic tabby pattern does not make a Bengal.
Marbles, believe it or not, were an 'accident' -- their pattern is a
combination of the classic tabby pattern and the horizontal 'pull' of
the ALC genes.  Sadly, this has come to mean that classic tabbies are
now called Bengal mixes.

And, to prove that I am not just anti breed rescue,
http://www.petfinder.com/pet.cgi?action=2&pet=1978841&adTarget=468catgeneral&Ses
sionID=41e929232a1e3422-app1&display=&preview=&row=0&tmpl=&stat
=
is not a Bengal.  Sal is a wonderful man, but sometimes his enthusiasm
for rescuing *all cats* causes him to make bad identifiers.  Tink is
really sweet, but she's a mackeral tabby and white.  Yes, we've argued
over her identifier, but he's the boss.  :)

Orchid
See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage
Want a Purebred Cat?  Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid
Mary - 15 Jan 2005 19:08 GMT
> >You can look at the eye color and body shape of many of
> >these cats and tell they do indeed have Bengal bloodlines.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> I am going to have to disagree with you about the conformation
> on many of the alleged Bengals.

Look at what I wrote. In your analysis below, you agree that
you can look at many of them and tell.

Allow me to get one thing out at the
> beginning.  != Bengal DOES NOT mean != good.  Like I said before,
> wonderful, loving, deserving cats -- just not Bengals.   I think part
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Georgia, Denver, and Conneticut, and legislation has been considered
> in New York State as well.

Hmm. Thanks for telling me this, I had no idea. I wonder if this alleged
viciousness is why I saw several so-called "four-way" declaws.

>The only defense we Bengal owners have is
> to introduce the public to our breed's incredible temperaments.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> described as a Bengal, which gives anti-Bengal people another piece of
> ammunition.

Is the Bengal a naturally occuring cat that is indigenous to somewhere?

>         The other part is how totally unfair it is to the cat.  A cat
> does not have to be a Bengal in order to be beautiful and worthy of a
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> wrong -- big clear tabby 'M', vertical stripes all over, no spots on
> his tummy, and ticking, ticking, ticking.

Mackeral tabbies have straight stripes, not spots.

> http://makeashorterlink.com/?S56812E3A is another brown mackeral
> tabby.
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> And, to prove that I am not just anti breed rescue,

http://www.petfinder.com/pet.cgi?action=2&pet=1978841&adTarget=468catgeneral&Ses
sionID=41e929232a1e3422-app1&display=&preview=&row=0&tmpl=&stat
=
> is not a Bengal.  Sal is a wonderful man, but sometimes his enthusiasm
> for rescuing *all cats* causes him to make bad identifiers.  Tink is
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage
> Want a Purebred Cat?  Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid
Orchid - 17 Jan 2005 23:10 GMT
>> >You can look at the eye color and body shape of many of
>> >these cats and tell they do indeed have Bengal bloodlines.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>Look at what I wrote. In your analysis below, you agree that
>you can look at many of them and tell.

    You misunderstand what i was disagreeing about.  I was
disagreeing that the conformation of the alleged Bengals matched that
of an actual Bengal.

>> this, Bengals, which are loving domestic cats with fantastic
>> temperaments are being banned as 'vicious'. Bengals are illegal in
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>Hmm. Thanks for telling me this, I had no idea. I wonder if this alleged
>viciousness is why I saw several so-called "four-way" declaws.

    Oh, yuck.  I would hope not.  Declawing is repugnant, and it
pains me to think of any cat four-pawed, much less a Bengal.  Hell, it
pains me to think of any cat declawed at all.  :(

>>The only defense we Bengal owners have is
>> to introduce the public to our breed's incredible temperaments.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Is the Bengal a naturally occuring cat that is indigenous to somewhere?

    Nope.  It's an entirely artificial breed.  ALCs and domestics
have a different number of chromosomes (Prionaliurus bengalensis vs.
Felis catus) and thus the inital hybridising is problematic.  F1-F3
males are usually sterile, and females have limited fertility.  It's
at the F4 generation that males and females are fully fertile.  While
ALCs will mate with domestic cats on their own, it usually doesn't go
beyond that.
    However, it is the very artificiality of the breed that gives
them their fantastic temperaments -- well-bred Bengals have been bred
for temperament first and foremost since the beginning of their
pedigree.

>> http://makeashorterlink.com/?G15852E3A is *not* a Bengal.  He is a
>> brown mackeral tabby with some broken stripes.  His conformation is
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Mackeral tabbies have straight stripes, not spots.

    Tabbies, both classic and mackeral, can have 'broken' stripes,
which appear as spots.  Genetically they are still classic or mackeral
tabbies.  If you look at the cat and play a mental 'connect the dots'
game, his spots form vertical stripes.  Without the 'broken' modifier
on the tabby gene the Ocicat, California Spangled, and Australian Mist
breeds could not exist.
    Bengals have the influence of the ALC 'horizontal' gene (which
does not exist in domestic cats), and thus their spots flow in a
horizontal or random pattern.  You can still have some vertical
influencing on the spots of a Bengal, but it's considered undesirable
and is being bred out.

Orchid
See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage
Want a Purebred Cat?  Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid
PawsForThought - 16 Jan 2005 02:23 GMT
>From: "Mary" crazyaboutfelines@yahoo.com

>> >I don't know where you live, but please consider adopting a rescued or
>> >shelter Bengal, if that's what you truly want. This is a great site,
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>a cat when others have done so and thrown said cat
>away. Have a heart, will you?

I think Bengals have become somewhat of a novelty for some people and I
wouldn't be surprised at all to see them in shelters once the novelty wears off
:(
________
See my cats:  http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecatjournal.com/articles/claws.htm
Tracy - 16 Jan 2005 03:37 GMT
Just in my state, California, it seems like over half a dozen purebred
Bengals have either been "surrendered" or rescued from a bad breeder. I
just find the idea rather precious that buyers of purebred cats don't
abandon their cats just like other folks do. And a couple of abandoned
unneutered Bengals and the genes are out there in the general cat
population. For the OP, just look for a cat that has the look and the
personality that you like - that's what's important!
Mary - 16 Jan 2005 04:01 GMT
> Just in my state, California, it seems like over half a dozen purebred
> Bengals have either been "surrendered" or rescued from a bad breeder. I
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> population. For the OP, just look for a cat that has the look and the
> personality that you like - that's what's important!

Nobody has answered the question of the "fourway" declaw I saw
mentioned at Petfinder for several Bengal cats. So horrible.
PawsForThought - 17 Jan 2005 12:09 GMT
>From: "Mary" crazyaboutfelines@yahoo.com

>Nobody has answered the question of the "fourway" declaw I saw
>mentioned at Petfinder for several Bengal cats. So horrible.

Ugh!!!!! :(

________
See my cats:  http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecatjournal.com/articles/claws.htm
Mary - 17 Jan 2005 19:25 GMT
> >From: "Mary" crazyaboutfelines@yahoo.com
>
> >Nobody has answered the question of the "fourway" declaw I saw
> >mentioned at Petfinder for several Bengal cats. So horrible.
>
> Ugh!!!!! :(

Yes, and the snappy little slangy "four-way" term makes it
worse. I have actually never seen this before, and I saw it
mentioned in the ads for three Bengals at Petfinders the other
day. Unbelievable that they would do this, and then give the
cats up.
PawsForThought - 20 Jan 2005 17:58 GMT
>From: "Mary" crazyaboutfelines@yahoo.com

>> >From: "Mary" crazyaboutfelines@yahoo.com
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>day. Unbelievable that they would do this, and then give the
>cats up.

Sick f.cks!  I hope their karma catches up with them.
________
See my cats:  http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecatjournal.com/articles/claws.htm
Mary - 20 Jan 2005 18:40 GMT
> >From: "Mary" crazyaboutfelines@yahoo.com
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Sick f.cks!  I hope their karma catches up with them.

I really think it does, eventually. Abusing the helpless
who depend upon you has got to rate high on the
"gonna fry for sure" list.
Mary - 15 Jan 2005 00:34 GMT
> I don't know where you live, but please consider adopting a rescued or
> shelter Bengal, if that's what you truly want. This is a great site,
> which includes the US and Canada: http://www.petfinder.com
> You can search your ZIP code by type of animal. What's great is
> shelters and rescue groups have adoptable animals posted, often with
> links to their site.

Rene--I cannot believe how many Bengals are up for adoption.
They sound so rare and special, and I'm sure they are, but there
must be some behavior problems or something that makes people
give so many up. Another thing--I have never seen so many
4-paw declaws in my life. It makes me want to retch.
Rene S. - 14 Jan 2005 20:42 GMT
I don't know where you live, but please consider adopting a rescued or
shelter Bengal, if that's what you truly want. This is a great site,
which includes the US and Canada: http://www.petfinder.com
You can search your ZIP code by type of animal. What's great is
shelters and rescue groups have adoptable animals posted, often with
links to their site.

Rene
B B - 15 Jan 2005 01:37 GMT
Your right Kelly, I'm not dead set on a pure breed. I really just like
that wild look they have. The brown/gold coats with the black dots. Like
I said in my previous post, I will research this, and have no problem
adopting an adult (female) cat. I will look at those web sites you & the
others posted. Thank you again. Brian
Cat Protector - 15 Jan 2005 03:06 GMT
Some cats at the shelter have exotic or unique looks. The brown classic
tabby patterns on some cats look really cool. My Icarus has the classic
tabby pattern which I read is rare for Japanese Bobtails but it isn't so
rare it doesn't happen.

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> Your right Kelly, I'm not dead set on a pure breed. I really just like
> that wild look they have. The brown/gold coats with the black dots. Like
> I said in my previous post, I will research this, and have no problem
> adopting an adult (female) cat. I will look at those web sites you & the
> others posted. Thank you again. Brian
Yngver - 19 Jan 2005 22:06 GMT
>Some cats at the shelter have exotic or unique looks. The brown classic
>tabby patterns on some cats look really cool. My Icarus has the classic
>tabby pattern which I read is rare for Japanese Bobtails but it isn't so
>rare it doesn't happen.

I'm going to take a wild guess that your cat is no more a purebred Japanese
Bobtail than your other cat is a purebred Bombay, as you claim. As has often
been pointed out, just because someone finds a stray or a cat at a shelter that
sort of resembles a picture somewhere of a purebred cat--to the uneducated
eye--is a far cry from claiming you can find lots of purebred cats at shelters.
Especially the less common breeds like Japanese Bobtails and Bombays.
Mary - 20 Jan 2005 18:45 GMT
> >Some cats at the shelter have exotic or unique looks. The brown classic
> >tabby patterns on some cats look really cool. My Icarus has the classic
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I'm going to take a wild guess that your cat is no more a purebred Japanese
> Bobtail than your other cat is a purebred Bombay, as you claim.

lol
Tracy - 21 Jan 2005 00:11 GMT
They most likely aren't. But that doesn't mean they don't contain a
chunk of genetic material from those breeds. Between abandoned
purebreds and those who fall into the hands of backyard breeders, there
are really very few strains of cat who haven't contributed some genes
to the general random breeding population.  Bobtails exist in the stray
cat population and the trait and much of the associated characteristics
exist and pop up in random bred cats. There is really no reason at all
to think that any of the physical and behavior and temperamental
aspects of purebed cats don't exist in the general cat population, too.
They do. Are they harder to find than ordering a kitten from a breeder?
Sure. But Petfinder is a wonderful resource to look for already-here
cats that have the looks and personality that someone finds appealing.
And for a pet, that is absolutely all that can possibly matter. I'm all
for putting the breeders out of business from simple lack of demand for
their products. Maybe someday. (sigh).
Mary - 21 Jan 2005 01:53 GMT
> They most likely aren't. But that doesn't mean they don't contain a
> chunk of genetic material from those breeds. Between abandoned
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> for putting the breeders out of business from simple lack of demand for
> their products. Maybe someday. (sigh).

*Standing ovation*
Cat Protector - 21 Jan 2005 02:32 GMT
If you really want to know what you have breedwise, go to a cat show. If
your cat has his/her claws (CFA rules even in the HHP state that a cat must
have all their claws) invite a breeder over to your benching area. They can
pretty much tell you whether or not you have a mixed breed or not.

Signature

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www.catgalaxymedia.com

Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of Your Computer Needs!
www.panthertekit.com

> They most likely aren't. But that doesn't mean they don't contain a
> chunk of genetic material from those breeds. Between abandoned
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> for putting the breeders out of business from simple lack of demand for
> their products. Maybe someday. (sigh).
Brigitte - 15 Jan 2005 16:43 GMT
> Hello...I was thinking of buying a Bengal cat. A person told me these
> cats really like water, and will even walk in the shower sometimes....is
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> with black dots are my favorite...very wild looking. Anything major to
> know about this breed? I have always owned a short haired tabby.

I have 2 cats that love the water.  I got them both from a gal I used to
work with.  Her barn cat had a litter and I took 2 of them.  They have both
been bathed weekly since I got them last year.  Both of them will get into
the shower with me.

I don't believe this has anything to do with their breeding, but credit it
to their early and repeated baths.

One of them even naps in the tub.

Brigitte
Mary - 15 Jan 2005 19:12 GMT
> > Hello...I was thinking of buying a Bengal cat. A person told me these
> > cats really like water, and will even walk in the shower sometimes....is
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> One of them even naps in the tub.

Well this is a sane observation! I suppose it does make sense
that those who wish to bathe their cats get started early. I have
actually never heard of cats that liked baths. I am supposed to
bathe mine due to my allergies etc. but would rather suffer than
scare them to death as bathing does.
Sherry - 15 Jan 2005 19:46 GMT
>Well this is a sane observation! I suppose it does make sense
>that those who wish to bathe their cats get started early. I have
>actually never heard of cats that liked baths. I am supposed to
>bathe mine due to my allergies etc. but would rather suffer than
>scare them to death as bathing does.

I"ve never seen a cat who actually likes a bath, although I'm sure there are
some. My daughter's cat gets a bath regularly. He doesn't fuss, he doesn't try
to run away, he just sits there. But just judging from the persecuted look on
his face, I don't think he actually likes it.

Sherry

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