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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / January 2005Obsession with bread
For the last couple of years, Benny will sometimes "attack" the loaf of bread that's on the counter. He doesn't seem to eat any of the bread; just seemed to like chewing a hole large enough to dry it out (and the fun of knocking it to the floor!). There was no pattern to this. He would go for months without doing it, then attack it several times in one week. Wheat bread, hamburger buns, whatever. The other day, a loaf got *majorly* attacked. . and I discovered my other cat, Tucker, was the culprit. Now both are doing it! Does anyone else have a bread-attacking kitty? This is so strange I had to post about it. Rene It's possible that they like the plastic that wraps up the bread. I know my cat loves plastic bags and violently attacks them. Try bringing both cats into the kitchen and wadding up/krinkling one of the plastic bags that holds the bread and tossing it on the ground. Watch them with it for awhile. If it's just a plastic obsession, they'll mess with the bag. If it's really bread... I don't think it will hurt them, :) > It's possible that they like the plastic that wraps up the bread. I know my > cat loves plastic bags and violently attacks them. Try bringing both cats > into the kitchen and wadding up/krinkling one of the plastic bags that holds > the bread and tossing it on the ground. Watch them with it for awhile. If > it's just a plastic obsession, they'll mess with the bag. If it's really > bread... I don't think it will hurt them, :) My husband has a habit of tying plastic grocery bags into little knots. They actually take up less space that way because they're not filled with air. Anyway, we recently discovered that these tied-up grocery bags are perfect cat toys. Oscar can bat them around the kitchen floor very well; in fact, one is apparently not enough, so she fetched herself a few more (we store them in a bag behind her food dish) and (my forensic detective work suggests) batted them about the kitchen.  Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* > For the last couple of years, Benny will sometimes "attack" the loaf of > bread that's on the counter. He doesn't seem to eat any of the bread; [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Rene Pearl did it once but it was a sole killing. My present 3 don't do this but Meowzer would kill a loaf of bread, box of tissues or toilet paper roll about once a year. I guess it just feels good on their feet............:) Celeste > For the last couple of years, Benny will sometimes "attack" the loaf of > bread that's on the counter. He doesn't seem to eat any of the bread; [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Rene None of my cats attack a loaf of bread but Icarus too likes to destroy toilet paper. I am considering buying extra rolls just for him. He and Isis also like plastic bags but Icarus prefers to rip things apart. I am a little bit worried sometimes that he and she will get a plastic bag wrapped around their head and sufficate. However, they seem to have no problems with the grocery plastic bags of course one of them did get the handle wrapped around their neck but I was there to free them. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of Your Computer Needs! www.panthertekit.com > My present 3 don't do this but Meowzer would kill a loaf of bread, box of > tissues or toilet paper roll about once a year. I guess it just feels [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> >> Rene >None of my cats attack a loaf of bread but Icarus too likes to destroy >toilet paper. I am considering buying extra rolls just for him. He and Isis [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >grocery plastic bags of course one of them did get the handle wrapped around >their neck but I was there to free them. Vhase likes to chew bubble wrap and plastic. Drives me crazy. Not only does the noise bother me, but it scares me that he could get a piece stuck in his airway. Once, several years ago, Kira came flying up the stairs with a grocery bag attached to her. She stuck her head trhough the handle. I had to calm her down so that I could get it off her. It was quite a ruckus though as she came around the corner and up the stairs with that trailing along. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > Once, several years ago, Kira came flying up the stairs with a grocery bag > attached to her. She stuck her head trhough the handle. I had to calm her > down so that I could get it off her. It was quite a ruckus though as she > came around the corner and up the stairs with that trailing along. Eric and I once heard a series of thumps coming from downstairs. We rushed down to find a freaked Eros running out of the basement with a paper bag handle around his head. As near as we can tell, he climbed into the bag, got the handle looped around his neck, somehow rolled himself, inside the bag, down the basement stairs, spilled the contents of the bag all over the floor, and then ran back up. Oscar doesn't mess with those kinds of things, so it came as a complete surprise to us. Fortunately, Eros was fine, just scared by the bag that kept following him. Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* > Once, several years ago, Kira came flying up the stairs with a grocery > bag attached to her. She stuck her head trhough the handle. I had to > calm her down so that I could get it off her. It was quite a ruckus > though as she came around the corner and up the stairs with that > trailing along. Bartleby has done the same thing twice. He was in such a panic! After we freed him from the evil bag wwe could laugh about it. Signature-Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net "Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG While my Icarus may not go for a loaf of bread, he certainly was very interested in getting near a bag of warm bagels today. Of course he jumped up on the counter and was given a firm "NO" as he was interested in getting near them. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of Your Computer Needs! www.panthertekit.com > Bartleby has done the same thing twice. He was in such a panic! After we > freed him from the evil bag wwe could laugh about it. > None of my cats attack a loaf of bread but Icarus too likes to destroy > toilet paper. I am considering buying extra rolls just for him. He and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > problems with the grocery plastic bags of course one of them did get the > handle wrapped around their neck but I was there to free them. Not the smartest idea to let your cats play with plastic bags. Signature-Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net "Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG I try not to let them play in the bags especially when I have items in them. I usually store the plastic bags in the cabinet. The bag in question was a grocery plastic bag and one of them decided to poke their head through the hole in the handle. I quickly removed the bag from the cat. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of Your Computer Needs! www.panthertekit.com > Not the smartest idea to let your cats play with plastic bags. >Does anyone else have a bread-attacking kitty? This is so strange I had >to post about it. That would be maynard. He will chew through the grocery bag and the bread wrapper to get at the bread. And it doesn't matter what kind. We never leave bread out. Even now, with his arthritis, if you leave it out, you will come back and found a section missing and a gaping hole in the plastic. I always knew which hamburger bun was mine :( Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com Ha, ha! Ok, so it's not just my wacky boys who are into bread. I had wondered about the plastic, but I'll leave other things out in plastic/Ziploc bags, which are never touched. Only the bread. <SNIP> > Does anyone else have a bread-attacking kitty? This is so strange I had > to post about it. > > Rene Just 24 hrs after you posted this, I found a loaf of rye bread mangled on the kitchen counter.... never happened before.... What sort of demonic magician are you? SignatureMathew Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat En Vino Veritas > <SNIP> >> Does anyone else have a bread-attacking kitty? This is so strange I had [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the kitchen counter.... never happened before.... What sort of demonic > magician are you? And Monday, our loaf of Home Pride (yeah, I know, but we only use it for PB&J since the healthy stuff just doesn't work right for those) was killed by (probably) our little horror Luna, who has *never* done it before and has *never* evinced any sort of interest in people food. Scary! brian SignatureIf you want to reply to this message by mail, you will have to change the reply address to beuchaw@beuchaw.net > > <SNIP> > >> Does anyone else have a bread-attacking kitty? This is so strange I had [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > brian The Mother Ship has clearly taken control of this group and is using the participants to convey messages to the cats. > And Monday, our loaf of Home Pride (yeah, I know, but we only use it for > PB&J since the healthy stuff just doesn't work right for those) was killed > by (probably) our little horror Luna, who has *never* done it before and has > *never* evinced any sort of interest in people food. Scary! Actually, I find a sweet honey wheat is very good with pb&j. Of course, I use the One True Jelly, grape, for PB&J. If you use some other flavor, well ... I just can't help you. Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* >> And Monday, our loaf of Home Pride (yeah, I know, but we only use it for >> PB&J since the healthy stuff just doesn't work right for those) was killed >> by (probably) our little horror Luna, who has *never* done it before and has >> *never* evinced any sort of interest in people food. Scary! > > Actually, I find a sweet honey wheat is very good with pb&j. Hmmm, might have to try that out (and I actually have to do almond butter since I'm allergic to peanuts, but my wife does PB). > Of course, I use the One True Jelly, grape, for PB&J. If you use some other > flavor, well ... I just can't help you. Nope, grape all the way (tried strawberry once, but grape is the only one, you're right. And yesterday, we found that the new loaf of bread we bought was killed too. It was attacked from the top and the teeth marks stopped exactly where the bread inside stopped, so it's obviously the bread that's the interest. We took a small piece of bread to the suspect cat and she just looked at it like "So what do you want me to do with that, it's not food", but our other cat (who has never gotten up on the counter while we're around (the other one does)) chowed down on it. Yet when I put the bread in the wrapper in front of both of them this morning, they ignored it. Guess it's time to get a breadbox. Damn, I hate it when cats show off that they're smarter than we are (I already know it, I just don't like to have it flaunted in my face :-)). brian SignatureIf you want to reply to this message by mail, you will have to change the reply address to beuchaw@beuchaw.net >> Actually, I find a sweet honey wheat is very good with pb&j. > > Hmmm, might have to try that out (and I actually have to do almond butter > since I'm allergic to peanuts, but my wife does PB). I've heard that almond butter is good stuff. I'm just addicted to Jiff ... peanut butter is one of the items that *must* be present in the pantry at all times. And it must be extra crunchy Jiff. None of this Skippy crap! >> Of course, I use the One True Jelly, grape, for PB&J. If you use some >> other flavor, well ... I just can't help you. > > Nope, grape all the way (tried strawberry once, but grape is the only one, > you're right. I've met people who make PB&Js with strawberry. Never quite trust them after that revelation ... Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* >> Hmmm, might have to try that out (and I actually have to do almond butter >> since I'm allergic to peanuts, but my wife does PB). > > I've heard that almond butter is good stuff. I'm just addicted to Jiff ... > peanut butter is one of the items that *must* be present in the pantry at all > times. And it must be extra crunchy Jiff. None of this Skippy crap! Some almond butters are not that great, but we get the Trader Joe's brand (don't know if you have any Trader Joe's stores where you're at, though - if you're not sure, try www.traderjoes.com to locate one). They have creamy and crunchy varieties - both are very good. They also have cashew butter, IIRC, but it's a bit strange (too sweet, maybe? I can't remember). Tried to get a breadbox last night at Bed Bath & Beyond, but all they had were huge ones that would hold a dozen bagels or two loaves of bread, so I guess it's fridging the bread (we don't have any cabinet space to keep the bread) 'til we can find a loaf-sized breadbox to keep it safe from whichever of our furries is killing the bread. :-( brian SignatureIf you want to reply to this message by mail, you will have to change the reply address to beuchaw@beuchaw.net > Some almond butters are not that great, but we get the Trader Joe's brand > (don't know if you have any Trader Joe's stores where you're at, though - if > you're not sure, try www.traderjoes.com to locate one). They have creamy > and crunchy varieties - both are very good. They also have cashew butter, > IIRC, but it's a bit strange (too sweet, maybe? I can't remember). We had multiple trader joe's in the DC area, but oddly enough, here in Boulder where it would make the most sense, there are none. Sigh. > Tried to get a breadbox last night at Bed Bath & Beyond, but all they had > were huge ones that would hold a dozen bagels or two loaves of bread, so I > guess it's fridging the bread (we don't have any cabinet space to keep the > bread) 'til we can find a loaf-sized breadbox to keep it safe from whichever > of our furries is killing the bread. :-( Could just put the bread in a closet =P Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* > For the last couple of years, Benny will sometimes "attack" the loaf of > bread that's on the counter. He doesn't seem to eat any of the bread; [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Rene One of our black kitties, Midnight, is majorly into bread -- we call her Miss Carbohydrate behind her back. We can't leave bread out on the counters either -- so we either refrigerate it or put it in the microwave oven at night. Christine B. I always put the bread in the fridge which is why I never have a problem with the cats attacking it. Of course give Icarus a little time. He is the more distructive one of the three and I sometimes refer to him as Hurricane Icarus. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of Your Computer Needs! www.panthertekit.com > >> For the last couple of years, Benny will sometimes "attack" the loaf of [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > it or put it in the microwave oven at night. > Christine B. >For the last couple of years, Benny will sometimes "attack" the loaf of >bread that's on the counter. He doesn't seem to eat any of the bread; [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Does anyone else have a bread-attacking kitty? This is so strange I had >to post about it. Our old cat once discovered a frozen chicken in plastic on top of the fridge and gave it a good biting, ever afterward we couldn't leave bread to defrost, because she'd check it out with her teeth. Only frozen though. J > Our old cat once discovered a frozen chicken in plastic on top of the fridge > and > gave it a good biting, ever afterward we couldn't leave bread to defrost, > because she'd check it out with her teeth. Only frozen though. Honestly, poultry and meat should be defrosted in the refrigerator, anyway. Hodge likes bread, too. Especially Irish soda bread. Signaturehttp://www.slywy.com/pages/hodge.html >> Our old cat once discovered a frozen chicken in plastic on top of the fridge >> and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Honestly, poultry and meat should be defrosted in the refrigerator, >anyway. Nah - just somewhere where the cat can't get its teeth into it :-) >Hodge likes bread, too. Especially Irish soda bread. >>> Our old cat once discovered a frozen chicken in plastic on top of the >>> fridge [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Nah - just somewhere where the cat can't get its teeth into it :-) I find the microwave very useful for that (not actually defrosting by turning it on, simply a place defrosting food can be put, and the door shut to keep it safe while it thaws) > >Honestly, poultry and meat should be defrosted in the refrigerator, > >anyway. > > Nah - just somewhere where the cat can't get its teeth into it :-) Well, I really meant from a food safety perspective . . . Signaturehttp://www.slywy.com/pages/hodge.html >> >Honestly, poultry and meat should be defrosted in the refrigerator, >> >anyway. >> >> Nah - just somewhere where the cat can't get its teeth into it :-) > > Well, I really meant from a food safety perspective . . . Why do you say that? The risk of leaving it on the counter after it's already been thawed? Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* >>> >Honestly, poultry and meat should be defrosted in the refrigerator, >>> >anyway. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Why do you say that? The risk of leaving it on the counter after it's already >been thawed? It's a health hazard. The outside gets up to room temp and bacteria starts growing, while the rest of it is still thawing. There are only 3 acceptable ways to thaw something: under cold running water in the refrigerator in the microwave - but only as part of the cooking process Anything else will get a restaurant in trouble with the health inspectors. I know we don't do as well in homes, but there are good reasons for these practices. Many items are pretty risky being thawed at room temp. Poultry is one of them. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com snip >There are only 3 acceptable ways to thaw something: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >reasons for these practices. Many items are pretty risky being thawed >at room temp. Poultry is one of them. well, we're OT now really, but my pragmatic perception is that 1) if there are bacteria in that chicken which can survive the cooking process, they'll get me anyway. 2) The only person likely to eat the chicken raw is Smudge. 3) if bacteria multiply at 2x every minute at 90 degrees, but 2x every 15 minutes at 6degrees, but it takes 15 times as long to defrost in the fridge, the net result is identical. BTW - I'm a vegetarian now :-), Smudge has never seen a chicken :-) Jim >well, we're OT now really, but my pragmatic perception is that 1) if there are >bacteria in that chicken which can survive the cooking process, they'll get me >anyway. Actually, that's not the risk. You have to handle that chicken before you cook it, so it is much easier to have cross contamination if you have more bacteria. You may cook the meat, but did the cutting board get fully cleaned before you chopped your salad? Think about e-coli. If you made hamburgers, and your kids went to the hospital, would you be content to know that it was your fault in not preparing it properly, or would you be upset that the meat company sold you meat that was infected? While we cook to get rid of the bacteria, we want to start out with the best possible product to begin with. Letting it sit on the counter for several hours is degrading that product and increasing the risk. >bacteria multiply at 2x every minute at 90 degrees, but 2x every 15 minutes at >6degrees, but it takes 15 times as long to defrost in the fridge, the net result >is identical. Please cite your numbers? bacteria growth depends on the type of bacteria, the temp involved, and the product itself, etc. For example, leaving out hardboiled eggs or potatoes for potato salad is more dangerous than leaving out a cooked chicken. Also, keep in mind that you wouldn't keep a frozen meal that sat out all night, but you would keep a meal that sat in the fridge for a few days. The difference in bacteria growth in the two situations is huge. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > Actually, that's not the risk. You have to handle that chicken before you > cook it, so it is much easier to have cross contamination if you have more > bacteria. > > You may cook the meat, but did the cutting board get fully cleaned before > you chopped your salad? This is why we have a separate chicken-cutting board. In fact, I got an orange one, so that it would stand out from the others. Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* > There are only 3 acceptable ways to thaw something: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > reasons for these practices. Many items are pretty risky being thawed > at room temp. Poultry is one of them. I know that according to all the 'this is the way you should live your life" advice out there, you are technically correct. However, I have never defrosted poultry in the fridge (my fridge isn't big enough), only ever at room temperature or in the microwave. And I've never had food poisoning from poultry (never had it from anything at home, actually). Guess I must just be cooking it thoroughly. > > There are only 3 acceptable ways to thaw something: > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Guess I must just be cooking it thoroughly. One thing people never talk about is how long it TAKES to defrost things in the fridge. I intend to thaw things in there, but after a full two days they are still frozen solid, so I sure do take them out and let them thaw at room temp. This is one of those things like "never put stuffing inside a bird," I think. A new "rule" though people have been safely doing otherwise for literally centuries. > One thing people never talk about is how long it TAKES to defrost things in > the fridge. I intend to thaw things in there, but after a full two days they > are still frozen solid, so I sure do take them out and let them thaw at room > temp. This is one of those things like "never put stuffing inside a bird," > I think. A new "rule" though people have been safely doing otherwise for > literally centuries. Yeah, the fridge thawing thing doesn't work for me. It won't be thawed if I put it in the fridge that morning, or the evening before. So now I'm in a situation where either I have frozen chicken when I needed it thawed, or I have thawed chicken that I'm not quite ready to use. Bleh. I use the water trick, though I feel guilty about the waste. At least it's ready when I need it, and it's not sitting around getting nasty beforehand. Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* > One thing people never talk about is how long it TAKES > to defrost things in the fridge. Yup, that's certainly a consideration. But not a problem with things like steaks etc, which have a fairly large surface area. I > > One thing people never talk about is how long it TAKES > > to defrost things in the fridge. I put my Thanksgiving turkey in a day or two before. Best turkey I ever had, too. Signaturehttp://www.slywy.com/pages/hodge.html >> advice out there, you are technically correct. However, I have never >> defrosted poultry in the fridge (my fridge isn't big enough), only ever at >> room temperature or in the microwave. And I've never had food poisoning >from >> poultry (never had it from anything at home, actually). Food poisoning takes 24-48 hours typically to hit you. Most people blame the wrong meal. If you throw up fairly quickly afterward, then that meal is probably to blame. But if you have stomach cramps or diarhea, it is probably a meal you ate the day before. And it could be a mild case of gas or a couple hours of discomfort. We probably get mild cases of it more times than we know, and that may actually help us keep up a bit of immunity. >One thing people never talk about is how long it TAKES >to defrost things in the fridge. I intend to thaw things >in there, but after a full two days they are still frozen solid, >so I sure do take them out and let them thaw at room temp. You can thaw it a ton faster by putting it in the sink under cold running water. That keeps it cold while still warming it up. We do this all the time at work. And if you are planning to cook it, then you can defrost it in the microwave. Or just cook it longer in the oven. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com "Meghan Noecker" <friesian@zoocrewphoto.com> wrote in message > > >One thing people never talk about is how long it TAKES > >to defrost things in the fridge. I intend to thaw things [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > you can defrost it in the microwave. Or just cook it longer in the > oven. I'm thinking a whole chicken here. That would take so long under cold water, my water bill would be outrageous! >I'm thinking a whole chicken here. That would take so long >under cold water, my water bill would be outrageous! So just stick it in the oven and cook it. Or defrost it in the microwave *fast* and then cook it right away. Keep in mind that your chicken is frozen in the center and 70 degrees on the outside while it is defrosting on the counter. At the very least, wash your hands a lot when handling it. And anything it comes in contact with. Salmonella is very common in poultry, and after several hours out, you could easily contaminate other food that won't be cooked. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > >I'm thinking a whole chicken here. That would take so long > >under cold water, my water bill would be outrageous! > > So just stick it in the oven and cook it. Or defrost it in the > microwave *fast* and then cook it right away. My dear well-meaning Meghan, the method of thawing the chicken still wrapped and in the freshly bleached sink (not on a cuttingboard, not on the counter) has worked for me for many years. Chicken, turkeys, roasts, everything. Once it has thawed (it is still very cold, just not frozen) I unwrap it the plastic and paper go right to the trash, the bird gets washed in the sink, patted dry with paper towels and plopped in the cooking device. Then the sink and counters get scrubbed and bleached ( I let the bleach sit on the surfaces for ten-fifteen minutes) and rinse well, dry thoroughly and apply Pledge to the porcelain and the countertop. (Keeps them from staining for a while.) > Keep in mind that your chicken is frozen in the center and 70 degrees > on the outside while it is defrosting on the counter. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > poultry, and after several hours out, you could easily contaminate > other food that won't be cooked. Yes m'aam, got that covered too! Even under the fingernails! >> >I'm thinking a whole chicken here. That would take so long >> >under cold water, my water bill would be outrageous! [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >Yes m'aam, got that covered too! Even under the fingernails! Just to get back OT - the question I want to ask the "hygeine party" :-) here is - do you always wash your hands when you've handled your *cat*? I was once a hygeine freak, and am still pretty careful about work-tops and utensils, and hand-washing, but I have to say that I stroke my cats when I'm in bed, and they sit on my knee sometimes when I'm eating, and we should *all* know better. I wouldn't go straight from the cat to my mouth, but I'm not sure I'm anything like as careful as I used to be - and hey! here I still am :-) ... Jim >Just to get back OT - the question I want to ask the "hygeine party" :-) here >is - do you always wash your hands when you've handled your *cat*? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >better. I wouldn't go straight from the cat to my mouth, but I'm not sure I'm >anything like as careful as I used to be - and hey! here I still am :-) ... I confess, I don't wash after handling the cat every time, but I do when handling the turtles. They are known for salmonella. And I always wash my hands before preparing food. And with things like raw meat, I usually wear disposable gloves. My hands get really dried out from repeated washing, so I prefer to use gloves and toss them. And when Maynard pulled a pea out of my potpie (I had dropped my fork and left the room to get another one), I opted to cook another potpie. I will share my food with them, but they don't get to help themselves. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > Just to get back OT - the question I want to ask the "hygeine party" :-) > here > is - do you always wash your hands when you've handled your *cat*? No. I'm emotionally stable. > Just to get back OT - the question I want to ask the "hygeine party" :-) > here is - do you always wash your hands when you've handled your *cat*? No. I do wash my hands before preparing food, and I think that's enough. You have dander and fur all over your house if you have a cat; I don't think washing your hands is going to make much difference if you're not allergic. If you are allergic, then every little bit helps. Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* > >Yes m'aam, got that covered too! Even under the fingernails! > > Just to get back OT - the question I want to ask the "hygeine party" :-) here > is - do you always wash your hands when you've handled your *cat*? Hee! No. > I was once a hygeine freak, and am still pretty careful about work-tops and > utensils, and hand-washing, but I have to say that I stroke my cats when I'm in > bed, and they sit on my knee sometimes when I'm eating, and we should *all* know > better. I wouldn't go straight from the cat to my mouth, but I'm not sure I'm > anything like as careful as I used to be - and hey! here I still am :-) ... Me too. Raw chicken scares me, but I kiss my cats right on the lips. :) >My dear well-meaning Meghan, the method of thawing >the chicken still wrapped and in the freshly bleached sink >(not on a cuttingboard, not on the counter) has worked >for me for many years. Okie dokie. Take a surface temp some time and you might be surprised. I work in a deli department, and I am required to temp the food multiple times a day. Foods that feel cold are often above the recommended temp, even in the refirgerated displays. We are required to temp the surface since that is warmer than the inside. And we use a temp gun, not a standard thermometer. I've worked here 15 years, and with the change in management two years ago, I have seen our health standards decline. I don't buy the food anymore. These problem happen when people know the rules. I'm sure they happen even more where people do not know proper food handling. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > >My dear well-meaning Meghan, the method of thawing > >the chicken still wrapped and in the freshly bleached sink [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > -- How many people have gotten sick from the food? Isn't that the true measure? The rules you follow are designed to be extra sure the store does not make anyone sick as they do not want to be sued--a very good thing! >How many people have gotten sick from the food? Isn't that the >true measure? The rules you follow are designed to be extra sure >the store does not make anyone sick as they do not want to be >sued--a very good thing! No way to know. Most people do not report tummy grumbles, minor cramps, gas, etc. It's only if multiple get sick, or if one person get sick really bad that anybody complains. And then, even then, there is only a test of the food if they push for it. Also, most food poisoning occurs 24-36 hours after the contaminated food is eaten. Most people blame problems on the last meal they ate. I, personally, have had food poisoning a couple times that I know of. One was at a fast food resturant. I ordered two cheesburgers, and ate the first one in the car in a hurry. We had been at a horse show all day, and were really hungry. When I got to the hotel room and bit into the second one, I discovered it wasn't done inside. I was fine that night, but starting getting sick the next night and all the next day. I couldn't eat at another restaurant of the same name for over a year. The other time was my own fault. I bought a piece of fish at work, and it smelled funny when I opened it. Not really bad, but not quite right. I should have just returned it, but I cooked it anyway. I got sick the next day. I stopped buying the deli food over a year ago. I make my own food now. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > >How many people have gotten sick from the food? Isn't that the > >true measure? The rules you follow are designed to be extra sure [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Also, most food poisoning occurs 24-36 hours after the contaminated > food is eaten. Most people blame problems on the last meal they ate. I had food poisoning twice--once from a lemon yogurt I ate fast as I was hungry, not realizing that the cat had knocked the regfrigerator plug out of the wall some days earlier. (I was insanely busy at the time, my only lame excuse.) It came on me in a matter of hours. Second time, a piece of chicken I forgot had been in the fridge(cooked) for five days--and the fridge was old, not too cold, had to be replaced as it stopped working altogether a few months later. Again, it came on inside of three hours after I ate it. Both times were the sickest I have every been--and both times I KNEW it was food poisoning. > I, personally, have had food poisoning a couple times that I know of. > One was at a fast food resturant. I ordered two cheesburgers, and ate [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > night, but starting getting sick the next night and all the next day. > I couldn't eat at another restaurant of the same name for over a year. It really is horrible, isn't it? > The other time was my own fault. I bought a piece of fish at work, and > it smelled funny when I opened it. Not really bad, but not quite [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I stopped buying the deli food over a year ago. I make my own food > now. Always the smartest thing to do. By the way, when I roast meat, esp. whole fowl, I put them in a very hot oven the first 15 minutes-- 450 degrees farenheit--as it browns them nicely and seems to seal in the juices. And I always use a meat thermometer carefully, in the thickest part. > I had food poisoning twice--once from a lemon yogurt I ate fast as I was > hungry, not realizing that the cat had knocked the regfrigerator plug out of [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > times were the sickest I have every been--and both times I KNEW it was food > poisoning. Which brings up a good question, at least for my uneducated self. How long can uncooked and cooked meats be left in a fridge before tossing? Chicken, fish, shrimp, beef ..? Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* >Which brings up a good question, at least for my uneducated self. How long >can uncooked and cooked meats be left in a fridge before tossing? Chicken, >fish, shrimp, beef ..? Cooked meat lasts longer than raw meat. But unless it is vacuumed pack, I wouldn't give it more than a few days. When we sell sliced meat in the deli, we have to sell within 5 days of opening., and we tell customers that it is good for 3 days, once sliced.It shouldn't make anybody sick for a couple more days past that, but it is growing bacteria. There was a news report awhile back where they studied leftovers, and it was pretty bad after 2 days. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > >Which brings up a good question, at least for my uneducated self. How long > >can uncooked and cooked meats be left in a fridge before tossing? Chicken, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > There was a news report awhile back where they studied leftovers, and > it was pretty bad after 2 days. I try not to keep anything cooked more than three days. For raw meat, two is the max--and with fish and seafood I try to cook it the day I get it. I know that it is unsafe, for example, to bring home the fried oysters from a seafood restaurant and eat them the next day. >> Also, most food poisoning occurs 24-36 hours after the contaminated >> food is eaten. Most people blame problems on the last meal they ate. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >of three hours after I ate it. Both times were the sickest I have >every been--and both times I KNEW it was food poisoning. There are different kinds of food poisoning. Some kinds are quick and usually involve vomiting to get rid of it fairly quickly. The more common types go all the way through the system and take longer to show up. Those are the kinds with stomach cramps, gas, bloating, diarhea, etc. >It really is horrible, isn't it? Yes, I spent most of the night in the bathroom. I was in the middle of photographing a horse show and had another one right after. It was really hard to do a good job when I felt like crap. I'm a bit more careful, and take a look at the burger I am eating. No more eating in the dark. I should have known better, with the huge E-coli problem we had here years ago. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > I'm a bit more careful, and take a look at the burger I am eating. No more eating in the dark. > I should have known better, with the huge E-coli problem we had here years ago. Fast food is scary enough when it is safe--just the fat content. I love it as much as the average person, but content myself now with an occasional breakfast biscuit. The trouble is, it is just so easy to eat when we are pressed for time--and the marketing for it is non-stop. snip >working altogether a few months later. Again, it came on inside >of three hours after I ate it. Both times were the sickest I have >every been--and both times I KNEW it was food poisoning. - yes, and that is what *should* be called food *poisoning* - which is different from what you get when you have the runs, general bad stomach or even full-blown salmonella infection. Really food poisoning is when you are poisoned directly by toxins which bacteria have generated in food - I've only had it once from rice in a chinese take-away, and as you say, I was poisoned - nearly passing-out, shaking, shallow breathing, worst of these poisons being botulinus toxin otherwise what you get is an infection where bacteria in the food develop in your gut - salmonella, compila bacta etc etc which tend to last some dys and come on a day or two after eating ... In England we have a saying though - "you have to eat a peck of muck before you die" (peck = 16pints) not sure whether that means you have to eat 16pints of muck to make you die, or that in the course of your life you will eat 16 pints of muck, but one thing's for sure, I'm well on the way to eating a peck of cat fluff .... :-) Jim > snip > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > that in the course of your life you will eat 16 pints of muck, but one thing's > for sure, I'm well on the way to eating a peck of cat fluff .... :-) Well, Jim, I do recall that I had a clear understanding of why some people have said they were so sick they wished for death--and that was BEFORE I threw up. And this was from four oz of yogurt the first time and a single chicken tenderloin the second time. Thanks for the volume measure conversion! > Our old cat once discovered a frozen chicken in plastic on top of the fridge and > gave it a good biting, ever afterward we couldn't leave bread to defrost, > because she'd check it out with her teeth. Only frozen though. She had a weakness for chickensicles! >>Does anyone else have a bread-attacking kitty? This is so strange I had >>to post about it. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > gave it a good biting, ever afterward we couldn't leave bread to defrost, > because she'd check it out with her teeth. Only frozen though. When I was a child, we had a cat that developed a taste for sponge cake. Not sure how or why, but he did. I can remember one evening sitting in the living room watching TV, and mum had baked a couple of sponge cakes which were cooling on the bench in the kitchen. It was quiet and peaceful. Suddenly, out of nowhere, she asked "Has anyone seen Puss?". Uh-oh, we all thought. Mum heads into the kitchen, and at the same time there's a crash as Puss, a half-eaten sponge cake and the cooling rack all descend from the bench to the floor ...
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