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A multitude of cat problems

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Perry Justus - 09 Jan 2005 11:25 GMT
Hi,

I have lots of cats, and quite a few of them have unfortunate problems that may or may not be easy to fix.  Here goes:

My oldest cat, Smokey (almost 12), has always been extremely territorial.  She began acting this way right as she matured - or maybe even before that.  Anyway, for a
number of years (five and a half), she spent most of her time outside.  After one too many disappearances, we decided to bring her in for good, but that's not really
related to the problem.  You see, she had around three litters of kittens before we got her spayed, and since she went so long without that, she sprayed.  Since she
was outside most of the time, it wasn't too much of a problem, but she's always sprayed in the curtains and in the corners of the house.  She does that to this day.  
Would medication help?  Just a good cleaning of all the areas, maybe?  Okay, on to the next one...

Casper was born in the summer of 1995 (Smokey's son).  He has been neurotic from the start.  My sister kept him in her apartment for about a week before she gave
him back to us -- because he peed and pooped everywhere.  Unfortunately, we didn't even take him to the vet to see if it was UTI or anything.  Now, he has had
several UTIs that were treated - and he was always hiding and acting strange when it happened, so it was easy to tell.  (Poor thing.)  Well, Casper used to poop on
the kitchen floor and the laundry room floor (where a litter box resides) all the time, and we couldn't get him to use a box.  On top of that, he'd spray, even after we got
him fixed.  He's stopped pooping on the non-carpetted floors as often (for some reason, he never did it on the carpet), but due to newer cats who've sprayed up a
storm, he sprays more than ever.  It's always in places that have already been marked, though.  One thing I've noticed is that, when he does use the litterbox, he
sometimes hangs over the edge and misses without realizing it!  Is he just litterbox-dumb, or is there another problem?  I would like to point out that even after we've
taken him to the vet for UTIs, he'd still spray.  When he had a UTI, he'd just stay in dark places, pee all over himself (and everywhere), and act even more aloof than
he already seems.

Simon likes to poop in soft places.  Yes, you heard me; he'll use the litterbox regularly, and doesn't spray (he will occasionally pee in one of the marked areas, but he
seems to be very healthy -- I think he's just confused about non-litterbox areas being litterboxes, or something).  He has no problem using the box, but if there's a soft
enough place, especially with room to bury deep so it takes us a while to find where THAT SMELL is coming from.  Can this be fixed?  Like I said, it's only soft places
(i.e., laundry baskets, beds where he's folded the sheets over his... well...).

Oscar is the most severe.  He sprayed here and there for about a week before we had him neutered, when he was 7 or 8 months old, and then never sprayed again
until we brought in three of my uncle's cats in the fall of 2003.  After this happened, he began to turn extremely aggressive and mean.  We had him separated from the
two males before they even met him (we were afraid of a huge confrontation - but we have let them out in the same areas since then, and there were no problems,
strangely enough), but the female, who has since passed, and was very, very old, was frequently a target of Oscar's new abuse.  Around this time, frustratingly
enough, our youngest cat Sylvie went into heat, and sprayed the place up, and through what we think are a combination of contributing factors, Oscar began to let
loose like a wild cat: spraying in all previously marked corners (even though he didn't before), and most frustratingly, in completely new ones.  He sprayed on our
antique-looking chair, and -- I kid you not -- the oven door!  Due to his attacks on Miss Kitty (uncle's eldest cat), we had to put him in our garage, where some of my
other cats are for some of the day.  (We let them out, but then after some time passes, they want to go back in!)  Figuring that drama with the garage crew would be
less harrowing than what was going on with Miss Kitty, his temporary garage home would make things easier for a little while.  Miss Kitty passed away in the spring of
2004, and we started letting Oscar back in regularly, and his unrelentingly aggressive behavior was still there.  One of my older female cats took the place of Miss Kitty
in Oscar's mind, and he began attacking her just as if she were Miss Kitty.  A combination of factors has kept Oscar separated for a long time now.  Curiously, while
he's in the garage, he's just like his old self, even when other cats are present (as long as it's not Nasiki) -- but when we let him out, he becomes stupendously keyed-
up and aggitated.  Since his alarming behavior only manifested when the new additions arrived, we don't think he has a UTI.  He seems very stressed out, and we
may have to put him on meds if nothing changes.

The non-problematic members of our kitty family occasionally pee in hot spots (read: marked), but it's not frequent, and we do believe that they're just confused about
where's the litterbox.  Because we were in a financial pickle, Sylvie could not be fixed until she'd already stunk the place up with copious amounts of spray.

I know that there are a reasonable about of people with as many cats as I have, but it's starting to overwhelm us.  Still, we love our cats and would never resort to the
animal shelter.  Short of drowning 75% of the house with buckets of Nature's Miracle and a myriad of behavior-correction pills, we may not be able to solve anything.  
Before we take this step, I'd like to hear what you guys have to say about this.  I have told my Mom that maybe some of them might have UTIs, but she always
reminds me that our cats have shown clear signs of the problem -- and I know that's not always true of UTIs, which, I have informed her, can be very dangerous  If
some of you do recommend check-ups, how can I further convince her?

Thanks, and sorry for the long-winded post,
Perry
Kelly - 09 Jan 2005 16:13 GMT
Exactly how many cats do you have??  All the problems you are describing all
seem to revolve around innappropriate urination, defecation, spraying, and
aggression.  Your ultimate problem COULD BE that you simply have too many
cats in your house, and thus they are all under a high amount of stress.
Something to think about.  Nothing that you said jumped out at me as if to
say this cat has a bad medical problem.  Most of it sounds behavioural, and
if this is the case, the most obvious reason is that the cats are stressed
for some reason and you need to find out why (i.e. don't have so many cats)

Kelly

> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 118 lines]
> Thanks, and sorry for the long-winded post,
> Perry
Margaret - 09 Jan 2005 18:21 GMT
> Exactly how many cats do you have??  All the problems you are describing all
> seem to revolve around innappropriate urination, defecation, spraying, and
> aggression.  Your ultimate problem COULD BE that you simply have too many
> cats in your house, and thus they are all under a high amount of stress.

Sounds reasonable. The OP said one cat used to spend time outside. I wonder
if they are all confined now, and if letting all or some of them come and go
inside and outside freely might ease their relationships.

Margaret
Perry Justus - 09 Jan 2005 21:45 GMT
> > Exactly how many cats do you have??  All the problems you are describing
> all
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Margaret

I don't think it would.  They (except for Oscar, who wasn't born yet) all had the same problems when I used to let them outside.  Several of my cats ran away and
never came back, and Smokey was starting to go off for a week at a time, so that's why I brought her in.  She doesn't show much interest in going outside now -- the
last time I let her out, she was back at the door in three minutes wanting in.  I live about thirty or forty feet from one of the main streets in town, so I can't take the risk.  
The cats all get along, except for Oscar and Nasiki, and Smokey generally doesn't like anyone - she was that way years ago, though.

Thanks,
Perry
Margaret - 09 Jan 2005 22:31 GMT
> > > Exactly how many cats do you have??  All the problems you are describing
> > all
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> I don't think it would.  They (except for Oscar, who wasn't born yet) all had the same problems when I used to let them outside.

Outside for how long? If their only place to really have territory is
inside, then short times outside wouldn't help much. A cat can't feel secure
about his/her territory unless he/she can get to it whenever he/she likes,
make it 'home base'.

> Several of my cats ran away and
> never came back, and Smokey was starting to go off for a week at a time,

Again, that sounds like relationship problems, not being happy in the home
situation. Which could be a territory thing, feeling crowded.

> so that's why I brought her in.  She doesn't show much interest in going outside now -- the
> last time I let her out, she was back at the door in three minutes wanting in.  I live about thirty or forty feet from one of the main streets in town,
so I can't take the risk.  

In the OP you said "Still, we love our cats and would never resort to the
animal shelter".  What about finding homes for some of them yourself? You
could interview the new owners yourself and decide which homes were most
suitable, and follow up.

Margaret
Perry Justus - 09 Jan 2005 22:55 GMT
> > I don't think it would.  They (except for Oscar, who wasn't born yet) all
> had the same problems when I used to let them outside.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> about his/her territory unless he/she can get to it whenever he/she likes,
> make it 'home base'.

Smokey was outside for 90% of the day.  The others would go back and forth from being in the house, to being outside, to being in the garage.  I've read a handful of
posts where people have 9 cats and live in an apartment!  I have 11 cats in a four (well, we use the forth for storage!) bedroom house with a two-car garage.

> > Several of my cats ran away and
> > never came back, and Smokey was starting to go off for a week at a time,
>
> Again, that sounds like relationship problems, not being happy in the home
> situation. Which could be a territory thing, feeling crowded.

No offense, but I hardly see how my cats disappearing were "relationship problems."  Smokey would always wander, and sometimes we'd find her in someone else's
yard a few days later.  The last time, however, she was gone for a week and we thought she was gone for good.  I'd go out every day looking for her, and finally I
found her one evening, around the horse farm that's not too far from where I live.  Smokey was overly territorial and antisocial from the start -- it has nothing to do with
being crowded.

> > so that's why I brought her in.  She doesn't show much interest in going
> outside now -- the
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> could interview the new owners yourself and decide which homes were most
> suitable, and follow up.

Absolutely not.  They're part of my family.  Also, keep in mind that five of my cats are 9 and older.

Perry

> Margaret
Kelly - 10 Jan 2005 02:04 GMT
>> In the OP you said "Still, we love our cats and would never resort to the
>> animal shelter".  What about finding homes for some of them yourself? You
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Perry

Perry,
You still haven't indicated just how many cats you have............??

Kelly
Perry Justus - 10 Jan 2005 10:28 GMT
> Perry,
> You still haven't indicated just how many cats you have............??
>
> Kelly

Umm... actually, I did!

Perry
Meghan Noecker - 11 Jan 2005 06:31 GMT
>> Perry,
>> You still haven't indicated just how many cats you have............??
>>
>> Kelly
>
>Umm... actually, I did!

He mentioned once that he has 11 cats. Assuming only one or two
humans, they are all competing for your attention, and probably all
want to be in the same locations. This sounds very competive.

Back when we had 6 cats, we had 3 people with 2 cats each. While they
are shared the whole house, each pair had their own bedroom and their
own human. So, there was respected territory and neutral territory.
Everything was fine. Everybody got along.

Then came cat #7. Everything went to hell. One cat that never sprayed
took up spraying. He wasn't my cat, but he was marking my furniture.
My cat retaliated by pooping under his bed. What a disaster. It only
stopped when one person moved out with their two cats, thus lowering
the number of overall cats.

I have had as many as 3 cats for me personally, and that has worked
out okay, though they do have some grumbles here and there. And I have
a dog, but they don't seem to compete against each other so much.

Signature

--
Meghan & the Zoo Crew  
Equine and Pet Photography
http://www.zoocrewphoto.com

Perry Justus - 11 Jan 2005 07:36 GMT
> He mentioned once that he has 11 cats. Assuming only one or two
> humans, they are all competing for your attention, and probably all
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> --

That's a very interesting theory.  I'm just wondering how I can get the most aggressive, troublesome one (who used to be one of the most inobtrusive!) to calm down,
without giving any of them away (which is, btw, completely out of the question for me).  I'd imagine that behavior medication would be my best bet.  The other cats that
sprayed didn't use to spray as much because there weren't so many problem spots in the house.  What really made things difficult was when my sister and brother-in-
law moved in about seven years ago and, over the course of two years, bought three very aggressive bulldogs.  Initially, we would keep the cats separated in the
garage just some of the time, but sadly, one of my cats was killed by one of the dogs.  After that, we had to keep the cats in the garage whenever the dogs were out,
only letting them out when the dogs were up in their kennels.  It was very stressful.  Now that they've moved into their own house, we've tried to bring the cats out
normally, but they just spray all over the place, so it's a lot more difficult -- meaning, we can't leave them in the house when we go places.  I would definitely let some of
them outside, but it's not the best area to do so, and since we had two cats run away (a decade later, I'm still not over it), it just doesn't seem worth the risk.  They
would all jump the fence and we'd have to go looking for them on a constant basis.

Like I said before, most of my cats get along.  Quite a few of them sleep together.  The biggest rivalries are between Smokey & Nasiki (the two oldest, and for some
reason, Smokey hated Nasiki from the time she turned 4 months old - there were also lots of problems with her attacking Andy, who was killed by the dog) and Nasiki
& Oscar.  Nasiki seems to be the natural target, for whatever reasons, but she never sprays.  Smokey has mellowed tremendously, especially since we started keeping
her indoors, but her spraying is the same as it was before she was fixed.  I'm living in a kitty soap opera!

Thanks,
Perry
Betsy - 11 Jan 2005 15:43 GMT
Perry, I have 11 cats too, all rescues.  At this point they range in age
from 8 to 17.  I had 13 at one point, but two have passed on.  I'll never
have this many again, but then I'll never be young and a sucker again :)

Anyway, it is tough.  I have a 3 level house and a huge backyard rigged so
they can play in it without escaping.  They have a cat door and can come in
and go out as they please.

But I still have spraying problems.  I work hard to keep the house clean,
and smell free.  It is a lot of work.  My worst offender is on Clomicalm,
and after trying 5 other medications I can attest that this helps a lot.

I also use feliway spray when things get out of order, like when I rescued a
very sick elderly cat last month.  Things still haven't settled down,
although poor kitty is long gone.

So my bet is that the bull dogs traumatized them, and they are still
recovering.  I'd suggest thoroughly cleaning your house.  Don't leave
anything lying around for them to mark.  Don't move any furniture right now.
Get a lot of feliway and spray it liberally, daily.

Then investigate Clomicalm (clomipramine, I get mine from Canada) with your
vet.  If they aren't open to it, find another vet!  At least for that cat.
I find it helps to have relationships with more than one vet, especially in
emergencies.

Good luck to you!  You sound like a very good-hearted person.

>> He mentioned once that he has 11 cats. Assuming only one or two
>> humans, they are all competing for your attention, and probably all
[quoted text clipped - 58 lines]
> Thanks,
> Perry
Monique Y. Mudama - 11 Jan 2005 17:03 GMT
> Get a lot of feliway and spray it liberally, daily.

There are also feliway diffusers that plug into the wall, kind of like kitty
potpourri.  May be easier than constantly spraying the stuff.  A diffuser
charge lasts 6 weeks.

Signature

monique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eros was adopted!  Eros has a home now!  *cheer!*

Betsy - 11 Jan 2005 17:27 GMT
I don't think they work.  Maybe they do, but it is hard to prove it one way
or the other, and they are really expensive.

>> Get a lot of feliway and spray it liberally, daily.
>
> There are also feliway diffusers that plug into the wall, kind of like
> kitty
> potpourri.  May be easier than constantly spraying the stuff.  A diffuser
> charge lasts 6 weeks.
Monique Y. Mudama - 11 Jan 2005 17:37 GMT
> I don't think they work.  Maybe they do, but it is hard to prove it one way
> or the other, and they are really expensive.

You think that sprays work, right?  How do you prove that those work?

>>> Get a lot of feliway and spray it liberally, daily.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>> -- monique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros
>> was adopted!  Eros has a home now!  *cheer!*

Signature

monique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eros was adopted!  Eros has a home now!  *cheer!*

Betsy - 11 Jan 2005 19:19 GMT
I don't :)

I'm pretty skeptical about most things.  I don't believe my anecdotal
evidence is sufficient to make any claims.  But my experience is that at
least one of my diffusers was sprayed directly!  And that, most of the time,
the items I spray with the feliway don't get marked  if I remember to mark
them with feliway.

Not very scientific.

>> I don't think they work.  Maybe they do, but it is hard to prove it one
>> way
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>>> Eros
>>> was adopted!  Eros has a home now!  *cheer!*
Monique Y. Mudama - 11 Jan 2005 19:28 GMT
> I don't :)
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Not very scientific.

I was just curious.

I saw no difference in Oscar's animosity towards Eros when I installed a
feliway diffuser in the bedroom, but I don't know that *anything* could have
helped that situation.  She did seem to be rather relaxed when I had the door
closed.  It *may* have helped her relax more quickly once the immediate
perceived threat was gone.  Maybe.

Have you tried rescue remedy?  Some folks seem to swear by the stuff.

Signature

monique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eros was adopted!  Eros has a home now!  *cheer!*

Monique Y. Mudama - 11 Jan 2005 17:02 GMT
Perry, is there any way to change your newsgroup posting settings so that
every paragraph doesn't show up as very long lines?  I wouldn't normally
complain, but it is impossible for me to read your posts, unfortunately.

A max of 75-78 characters per line is considered "good form" on newsgroups.  I
know that the cat groups aren't big on "netiquette" rules, but in this case I
really can't read your posts as they are =/

Signature

monique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eros was adopted!  Eros has a home now!  *cheer!*

Perry Justus - 12 Jan 2005 06:51 GMT
> Perry, is there any way to change your newsgroup posting settings so that
> every paragraph doesn't show up as very long lines?  I wouldn't normally
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> know that the cat groups aren't big on "netiquette" rules, but in this case I
> really can't read your posts as they are =/

Ouch!  I had no idea my posts were showing up like that.  Is this one appearing that way, as well?  I'm using an ooold version of Opera.

Sorry,
Perry
Monique Y. Mudama - 12 Jan 2005 22:07 GMT
> Ouch!  I had no idea my posts were showing up like that.  Is this one appearing that way, as well?  I'm using an ooold version of Opera.

If you see the above as a very long line, that's how I'm seeing it.

I'm using slrn, which is a console-based reader.

Anyway, no one else seems to be having issues, so I'll just deal =)

Signature

monique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eros was adopted!  Eros has a home now!  *cheer!*

Meghan Noecker - 13 Jan 2005 08:55 GMT
>> Ouch!  I had no idea my posts were showing up like that.  Is this one appearing that way, as well?  I'm using an ooold version of Opera.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Anyway, no one else seems to be having issues, so I'll just deal =)

I found it annoying, but I am using Free Agent which allows me to
scroll. I just have to go back and forth a lot.

Unfortunately, I do not know how to fix it in the program he is using.

Signature

--
Meghan & the Zoo Crew  
Equine and Pet Photography
http://www.zoocrewphoto.com

Margaret - 12 Jan 2005 00:38 GMT
Have any of them recently been neutered/spayed, and did that change his/her
behavior in any way? Sometimes spaying can cause a cat to begin spraying.

Margaret
------------

> > He mentioned once that he has 11 cats. Assuming only one or two
> > humans, they are all competing for your attention, and probably all
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> That's a very interesting theory.  I'm just wondering how I can get the most aggressive, troublesome one (who used to be one of the most
inobtrusive!) to calm down,
> without giving any of them away (which is, btw, completely out of the question for me).  I'd imagine that behavior medication would be my best
bet.  The other cats that
> sprayed didn't use to spray as much because there weren't so many problem spots in the house.  What really made things difficult was when my sister
and brother-in-
> law moved in about seven years ago and, over the course of two years, bought three very aggressive bulldogs.  Initially, we would keep the cats
separated in the
> garage just some of the time, but sadly, one of my cats was killed by one of the dogs.  After that, we had to keep the cats in the garage whenever the
dogs were out,
> only letting them out when the dogs were up in their kennels.  It was very stressful.  Now that they've moved into their own house, we've tried to
bring the cats out
> normally, but they just spray all over the place, so it's a lot more difficult -- meaning, we can't leave them in the house when we go places.  I
would definitely let some of
> them outside, but it's not the best area to do so, and since we had two cats run away (a decade later, I'm still not over it), it just doesn't seem
worth the risk.  They
> would all jump the fence and we'd have to go looking for them on a constant basis.
>
> Like I said before, most of my cats get along.  Quite a few of them sleep together.  The biggest rivalries are between Smokey & Nasiki (the two
oldest, and for some
> reason, Smokey hated Nasiki from the time she turned 4 months old - there were also lots of problems with her attacking Andy, who was killed by the
dog) and Nasiki
> & Oscar.  Nasiki seems to be the natural target, for whatever reasons, but she never sprays.  Smokey has mellowed tremendously, especially since we
started keeping
> her indoors, but her spraying is the same as it was before she was fixed.  I'm living in a kitty soap opera!
>
> Thanks,
> Perry
Sherry - 02 Feb 2005 20:02 GMT
>Have any of them recently been neutered/spayed, and did that change his/her
>behavior in any way? Sometimes spaying can cause a cat to begin spraying.
>
>Margaret

Documentation, please, because I've just never, ever heard that and it's hard
to believe. I'd love to read more about it.  Spaying *stopped* mine from
spraying.

Sherry
Meghan Noecker - 03 Feb 2005 09:15 GMT
>>Have any of them recently been neutered/spayed, and did that change his/her
>>behavior in any way? Sometimes spaying can cause a cat to begin spraying.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>to believe. I'd love to read more about it.  Spaying *stopped* mine from
>spraying.

We had one spayed female that did spray on rare occasions. I'm not
aware of any spraying incidents before she was spayed, but I would
rule it out. For her, it was completely territorial, and only happened
when she was having problems with another dominant female.

Signature

--
Meghan & the Zoo Crew  
Equine and Pet Photography
http://www.zoocrewphoto.com

Meghan Noecker - 12 Jan 2005 07:32 GMT
>That's a very interesting theory.  I'm just wondering how I can get the most aggressive, troublesome one (who used to be one of the most inobtrusive!) to calm down,
>without giving any of them away (which is, btw, completely out of the question for me).  I'd imagine that behavior medication would be my best bet.  The other cats that
>sprayed didn't use to spray as much because there weren't so many problem spots in the house.

I would recommend more seperation. It may be harder keeping doors
closed, but if each pair or set of cats has their own defined
territory, even though smaller than the overall house, they may be
more secure and not feel the need to mark.

> What really made things difficult was when my sister and brother-in-
>law moved in about seven years ago and, over the course of two years, bought three very aggressive bulldogs.  Initially, we would keep the cats separated in the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>them outside, but it's not the best area to do so, and since we had two cats run away (a decade later, I'm still not over it), it just doesn't seem worth the risk.  They
>would all jump the fence and we'd have to go looking for them on a constant basis.

Hmm. Sounds like there were some realy stressful times, and they may
not have recovered. You will need to work toward re-conditioning them.
They need to learn that the stressful conditions are gone. Part of it
may be separating those that do not get along.

Another problem is the current smell. Cats will mark where it is
already marked. So, you need to really scrub and get rid of those old
smells so that they have no reason to makr those spots again. This
will be very hard as those scents do get ingrained.

>Like I said before, most of my cats get along.  Quite a few of them sleep together.  The biggest rivalries are between Smokey & Nasiki (the two oldest, and for some
>reason, Smokey hated Nasiki from the time she turned 4 months old - there were also lots of problems with her attacking Andy, who was killed by the dog) and Nasiki
>& Oscar.  Nasiki seems to be the natural target, for whatever reasons, but she never sprays.  Smokey has mellowed tremendously, especially since we started keeping
>her indoors, but her spraying is the same as it was before she was fixed.  I'm living in a kitty soap opera!

You might also try the Feliway (I think that is what it is called). It
is supposed to have a calming affect, and may help all of them relax a
bit. Those that have more problems would probably also benefit from
some extra special attention. You may be one of the disputes (your
time is a resource), so giving them special time alone might help to
alleviate some of their anxiety.

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Equine and Pet Photography
http://www.zoocrewphoto.com

Meghan Noecker - 12 Jan 2005 07:34 GMT
I forgot to mention.

If you have some regular spray targeting areas, protect them. When I
took in a stray, he sprayed. I took a roll of saran wrap, and started
protecting all furniture in his reach. That way, when he did spray, he
wasn't ruining the furniture and cleanup was easier.

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Equine and Pet Photography
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Perry Justus - 09 Jan 2005 21:39 GMT
> Exactly how many cats do you have??  All the problems you are describing all
> seem to revolve around innappropriate urination, defecation, spraying, and
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Kelly

Well, I would think that was the problem as well, but the same cats had the same behavioral problems before I had so many other cats.

Perry
cagney - 10 Jan 2005 00:47 GMT
I think spraying is a behavorial problem, and it becomes a habit within the
1st month. My vet said it is very hard to treat after the first month.  She
suggested Prozac, and behaviour modifications.  most of the time cats have
to be euthanized if this behaviour doesn't change.  Stress is also a
trigger.  Good luck with this one.  Talk to your vet.  My experience with
this lasted one year.  My place smelled like a barn and I had to euthanize
my beautiful 8 year old tortishell cat.  how I miss her.

> > Exactly how many cats do you have??  All the problems you are describing all
> > seem to revolve around innappropriate urination, defecation, spraying, and
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Perry
Perry Justus - 10 Jan 2005 03:30 GMT
> I think spraying is a behavorial problem, and it becomes a habit within the
> 1st month. My vet said it is very hard to treat after the first month.  She
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> this lasted one year.  My place smelled like a barn and I had to euthanize
> my beautiful 8 year old tortishell cat.  how I miss her.

I hope you're not saying that you had your cat euthanized because she sprayed...

Perry
cagney - 12 Jan 2005 23:11 GMT
Yes she was euthanized because she sprayed.  She was an indoor cat and my
vet tried everything to have her stop.  It was over a year that she did this
on everything I had. Couch, carpet, bed, walls....  I rent an apartment and
keeping it urine free was impossible.  I had no other choice. I could have
brought her to the humane society and maybe someone would have adopted her
but, they would have gone through the same thing as I did. It's not fair to
them or me.  It had to be done.
> > I think spraying is a behavorial problem, and it becomes a habit within the
> > 1st month. My vet said it is very hard to treat after the first month.  She
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Perry
Monique Y. Mudama - 12 Jan 2005 23:18 GMT
> Yes she was euthanized because she sprayed.  She was an indoor cat and my
> vet tried everything to have her stop.  It was over a year that she did this
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> but, they would have gone through the same thing as I did. It's not fair to
> them or me.  It had to be done.

So, tell me, how do you handle bed wetters in your family?

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Margaret - 12 Jan 2005 23:26 GMT
> Yes she was euthanized because she sprayed.  She was an indoor cat and my
> vet tried everything to have her stop.

Did the vet try hormone replacement therapy?

> It was over a year that she did this
> on everything I had. Couch, carpet, bed, walls....  I rent an apartment
and  keeping it urine free was impossible.  I had no other choice. I could
have brought her to the humane society and maybe someone would have adopted
her but, they would have gone through the same thing as I did.

Would the humane society not have been willing to place her in an outdoor
home?

/snip/

> > > I think spraying is a behavorial problem, and it becomes a habit
within the 1st month. My vet said it is very hard to treat after the first
month.  She suggested Prozac, and behaviour modifications.  most of the time
cats have to be euthanized if this behaviour doesn't change.  Stress is also
a trigger.  Good luck with this one.  Talk to your vet.  My experience
with this lasted one year.  My place smelled like a barn and I had to
euthanize  my beautiful 8 year old tortishell cat.  how I miss her.

If she was 8 years old and had only been spraying for a year, what changed
that might have made her start it?

Margaret
-----------
Meghan Noecker - 13 Jan 2005 09:04 GMT
>Yes she was euthanized because she sprayed.  She was an indoor cat and my
>vet tried everything to have her stop.  It was over a year that she did this
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>but, they would have gone through the same thing as I did. It's not fair to
>them or me.  It had to be done.

We had a similar situation, but going outside helped. At least he did
most of his spraying outside. We tried 3 different medications. One
was valium, and one was a female hormone. I don't remember what the
other one was. None of them helped. This was about 10 years ago, so
they may have better drugs now.

Anyway, he was very territorial, probably a bit mental. I have never
seen such a strange cat before. He would attack the other cats and
dogs if my mom gave them attention. He was very sweet toward people,
but vey agressive toward other animals. We tried re-homing him, but he
needed to be an only pet.

He finally got too agreesive with the raccoons. They wouled back down
in the yard, but he would chase them (I told you he was agressive),
and we think they finally turned on him. We never found him.

On a side note, he was stolen once and returned :)

He was gone for a weekend, and suddenly reappeared. Then a few days
later, our neighbor commented on how friendly he was. Maybe they
thought he was a stray, or maybe they just liked him. But I think they
figured out why we let him out during the day. We don't like letting
them out, but he was the exception.

He was neutered, though he was about a year old I think. so, not as
early as the other boys.

We never once considered putting him down. He was young and healthy.

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mpwilliams - 13 Jan 2005 02:02 GMT
>I think spraying is a behavorial problem, and it becomes a habit within the
> 1st month. My vet said it is very hard to treat after the first month.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> this lasted one year.  My place smelled like a barn and I had to euthanize
> my beautiful 8 year old tortishell cat.  how I miss her.

The suggestion from your vet regarding fluoxetine (Prozac) therapy was good
advice indeed ... 0.5mg/kg/day, compounded in #3 gel caps by a pharmacist,
would have stopped your cats spraying behavior within 48-72 hrs (experience
talking).
cagney - 14 Jan 2005 06:30 GMT
Well this was 7 years ago, and the only
meds my vet used was valium, steroids,
and behavioural techniques.  Nothing
worked.  Unfortunately I am in Ont.
Canada and Prozac wasn't available to
us.  The only thing my vet said was to
euthanize, she had done so weeks earlier
with her cat.
My cat was also aggressive with my other
cat, and with people too.  I didn't want
her going outside because I lived on
the 5th floor high rise building.   I
think it
all came down to her not adjusting to a
move
I had.  I don't know but no one would
want her
with her aggressive behaviour.  I loved
her, I
didn't want to euthanize her, but when a
vet
suggest it, you trust them especially
when they
have done the same thing weeks earlier
to there own cat.

> "cagney" <frequency@cogeco.ca> wrote in message

news:3hkEd.16230$Y_4.1857579@read2.cgocable.net...
> >I think spraying is a behavioural
problem, and it becomes a habit within
the
> > 1st month. My vet said it is very hard to treat after the first month.
> > She
> > suggested Prozac, and behaviour modifications.  most of the time cats
have
> > to be euthanized if this behaviour doesn't change.  Stress is also a
> > trigger.  Good luck with this one.  Talk to your vet.  My experience with
> > this lasted one year.  My place smelled like a barn and I had to
euthanize
> > my beautiful 8 year old tortishell cat.  how I miss her.
>
> The suggestion from your vet regarding fluoxetine (Prozac) therapy was good
> advice indeed ... 0.5mg/kg/day, compounded in #3 gel caps by a
pharmacist,
> would have stopped your cats spraying
behaviour within 48-72 hrs (experience
> talking).

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