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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / January 2005Kitten 'knock Out' potion??
As some here already know, I have a 14 week old kitten, Dove. Well, I'm not getting much sleep lately because Dove wakes me up like clock work each morning anywhere from between 4:00am to 5:00AM. This is not a good thing as I'm already writing this with bags underneath my eyes, and can barely get up each AM! I was totally spoiled rotten with Blue. He would sleep solid with me (up until the last 3 years of his life) until whatever time I happened to wake up. He was a very sound sleeper. I counted my lucky stars because it was like having a (rare) baby who would sleep completely through the night. Those days are long gone now. Yawn. Soo, does anyone please know of a good 'knock out' type of herbal remedy, that is, of course, completely safe and non-toxic for a 4 poundish kitten? I have tried diluted milk and even turkey because both have L-triptafan-(SP) in them, but they had no affect at all. The past 3 weeks I haven't slept for more than 4 hours a stretch. Heeelp!! ML > Soo, does anyone please know of a good 'knock out' type of herbal remedy, > that is, of course, completely safe and non-toxic for a 4 poundish kitten? I > have tried diluted milk and even turkey because both have L-triptafan-(SP) > in them, but they had no affect at all. The past 3 weeks I haven't slept for > more than 4 hours a stretch. Heeelp!! Can you exercise him to wear him out? I don't think drugs are a good idea--and many "herbals" are still very strong medicine. Hi Mary, I have a huge privacy fenced backyard that I use like a giant containment pen for my babies. I've been going out there with him and my other cat, Jessie, to let them run around like mad because, yes, I was thinking I'd just wear the little guy out! Ha. Not so. I've also been throwing balls and fake mouse's to try* to keep Dove from cat napping during the day, so he wouldn't, therefore, be up and about during the middle of the night. It just flat out hasn't worked. He's certainly an energetic little buggar. I think Dove's system is just wired differently..? Heck I don't know. But I do know that I'm exhausted and at this point I don't give 3 flips about being PC I just need some solid* rest. Thank God I haven't had* to be somewhere at (Godforbid) 8:00AM each day , but that soon enough may be coming and I need a remedy... oh yeeeeah, I need a remedy, Remedy!! ML--( now singing due to sleep depravation :-) .? > > Soo, does anyone please know of a good 'knock out' type of herbal remedy, > > that is, of course, completely safe and non-toxic for a 4 poundish kitten? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Can you exercise him to wear him out? I don't think drugs are a good > idea--and many "herbals" are still very strong medicine. > Hi Mary, > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > ML--( now singing due to sleep depravation :-) I see that you've tried to wear him out! I guess I would put him in a room far away from my bedroom, then. And perhaps get a big HEPA filter to drown him out if he cries for you at night. You have to sleep. Good luck. <SNIP> The past 3 weeks I haven't slept > for > > more than 4 hours a stretch. Heeelp!! <SNIP> > Can you exercise him to wear him out? I don't think drugs are a good > idea--and many "herbals" are still very strong medicine. I agree. I'm just beginning to learn what herbal treatments are usefull for cats. You could always do what I did (for an unrelated question), go to your local book store, browse & look up 'sedatives' in a natural cat care book, while you're flipping through it. I do know that neither Chammomile or Valerian are toxic for cats, but I don't know what doseage you'd want...or if they even act as sedatives on feline physiology. Good luck, let us know what you find out...  SignatureMathew Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat En Vino Veritas > Soo, does anyone please know of a good 'knock out' type of herbal remedy, > that is, of course, completely safe and non-toxic for a 4 poundish kitten? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > for > more than 4 hours a stretch. Heeelp!! You need to train your cat, rather than having it train you! It requires you to "get hard". But it will also only work if you are prepared to lock your cat out of your bedroom at night. My cats don't sleep with me and never have, because I am slightly allergic to them so don't want to be sneezing all night. The bedroom door has been firmly closed from since they were kittens, and they simply know they don't sleep with me. Of course, the first week or two that you lock them out, they will scratch at your door and mew, trying to get let in. This is where a good pair of ear plugs and a willingness to get up, tell them off loudly and disapprovingly then close the door on them comes in handy. It's not cruel, and they learn quite quickly, and you do get a good night's sleep. My Amber is ten years old and she just started in the last few months to get on the bed early in the morning and walk around - purring. This doesn't bother me too much since I go to bed about 9:30. Tiger likes to sleep on the bed so I can't close the door. My suggestion - go to bed earlier! ---MIKE--- ***Hi Ashley, I want* Dove to sleep with me. And believe me, I'm a verrry strict Momma in and with disciplining and training because I strongly believe in what you said. I am the Momma master! I always have my other cat, Jessie, in his room, and the problem is when I let Dove out of my bedroom (which lately I've had to do at the usual 4-to 5 AM period) is, guess what, shock of shocks? Jessie' bedroom is *right across* from my bedroom and they always start paying 'footies' underneath his* door and then Jessie start to cry and whine.. well.. I'm sure your 'connecting the dots' at this point. I have, within the past week, been putting Jessie outside in my backyard since he* is the most vocal. Also, Dovey is too young and barely meows and is fairly quiet except for, of course, finding anything* in my room or closet that crinkles Loudly. :-(. ML > > Soo, does anyone please know of a good 'knock out' type of herbal remedy, > > that is, of course, completely safe and non-toxic for a 4 poundish kitten? [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > It's not cruel, and they learn quite quickly, and you do get a good night's > sleep. > ***Hi Ashley, > > I want* Dove to sleep with me. Well, maybe you have to decide what you want most - Dove to sleep with you or a good night's sleep. Life is full of such choices! >From: "Ashley" ashleyjaneNOSPAM@xtra.co.nz >> ***Hi Ashley, >> >> I want* Dove to sleep with me. > >Well, maybe you have to decide what you want most - Dove to sleep with you >or a good night's sleep. Life is full of such choices! You can have both. Keep the kittens active during the day, and they will sleep at night. Use one of those interactive toy on a fishing pole types and play with them about 1/2 hour before bedtime. If they wake you up during the night, ignore them. Once they learn that they won't get a reaction from you, they'll either settle back down or go play with each other. ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecatjournal.com/articles/claws.htm > As some here already know, I have a 14 week old kitten, Dove. Well, I'm >not getting much sleep lately because Dove wakes me up like clock work each [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >ML Your kitten's waking you is because you stirred FIRST in bed. YOU provoked your pussycat!! To prevent this go to your doctor and get a prescription for Imovane, a hypnotic sedative with no morning side effects. Take it at bedtime and you'll be out for 8 hours. It worked for me. http://www.kittyporn.org/ http://www.ipussy.co.uk/revolucion.html http://www.ipussy.co.uk http://zefrank.com/naughtybird/ http://www2.b3ta.com/catgame/ > Your kitten's waking you is because you stirred FIRST in bed. YOU > provoked your pussycat!! > To prevent this go to your doctor and get a prescription for Imovane, > a hypnotic sedative with no morning side effects. Take it at bedtime > and you'll be out for 8 hours. > It worked for me. LOL.... DRUG DA HOOMAN!!!! Not the fluffy little kitty..... SignatureMathew Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat En Vino Veritas > http://www.kittyporn.org/ > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > http://www2.b3ta.com/catgame/ > LOL.... DRUG DA HOOMAN!!!! Not the fluffy little kitty..... Heh. I think this is a purrfectly acceptable idea. :) SignatureCheryl >> Your kitten's waking you is because you stirred FIRST in bed. YOU >> provoked your pussycat!! [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> >LOL.... DRUG DA HOOMAN!!!! Not the fluffy little kitty..... Da Hooman is the one with the problem, not the little pussycat! > As some here already know, I have a 14 week old kitten, Dove. > Well, I'm [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > ML I have 2 new kittens, now just over 4 months, possibly as much as 5 months now, and have had them since about 9 weeks of age. They are my first experience with such young kittens and the first thing I've noticed is that they are nocturnal. All of my older cats have adopted my schedule, so I assume this is a learned behavior. The thing that saves my sleep is that there are two of them. They rarely come in my room at night other than to run across me (doesn't faze me lol) or to snuggle when they want to rest. For the rest of the night they seem to be prowling the house and playing far far from my room. I presume that as time goes by, they will become night sleepers like my 2 others, and their adult predecessors before them. My advice? Get Dove a friend! :) SignatureCheryl Have you tried playing her out with a laser pointer before going to bed. Spot used to drive me crazy with her ripping and tearing in the middle of the night. I found that if I played with her with the pointer for about 15 to 20 minutes before bed she'd sleep all night. Playing would involve chasing the pointer around the room and then up and down the stairs a dozen or so times. It worked like a charm with her. Good luck, they do grow out of this...................:) Celeste > As some here already know, I have a 14 week old kitten, Dove. Well, I'm > not getting much sleep lately because Dove wakes me up like clock work each [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > ML > As some here already know, I have a 14 week old kitten, Dove. Well, I'm > not getting much sleep lately because Dove wakes me up like clock work [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >usually to around 1100 or 12pm. So really all that he is alone is about 4 >or 5 hours and he probably sleeps mostly. SignaturePaul O. My sig line is my disclaimer to any advice given Absolutely clueless when it comes to cats Learning more every day, but still clueless oplholik@hotmail.com Is the kitten hungry? , when my kcat Maui was akitten he used to do teh same thing at around 5:30 every morning. We discovered he was hungry. Maui also like to play with his catnip toy at night, that helped him calm down after playtime. here is a good place to get amazing catnip mouse toys. www.kittyhooch.com very high quality catnip -pamela > Is the kitten hungry? , when my kcat Maui was akitten he used to do teh > same thing at around 5:30 every morning. We discovered he was hungry. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > -pamela ** Hi Pamela, Dove isn't a big eater. You have a good point and one that I just recently thought of, in that, he might be hungry. However, that conclusion is 'blow out of the water' becuase I have always left gobs of food, wet and dry, out in the kitchen for him. He has open access to it during the night, but he just isn't a big eater. I really think though, just like you suggested, that if he ate more at night, then like us humans ;-) he would sleep deeper and maybe longer. I do really want him to grow accostomed to sleeping with me and keep hoping that I will get some responces here about *a food*, *a vitaimin* or *a herb*- (and no, not the smoking kind, although I'm Sure that would work ;-)SOMETHING* that will help 'assist' him along into falling into a deeeep La-La land sleep. ML Mr. Bonkers did the same thing. I bought an automatic food dispenser and set it to dispense 1/4 cup at 4 am. Now he waits there and after eating he goes back to sleep till I get up. It's a mighty expensive solution though. > As some here already know, I have a 14 week old kitten, Dove. Well, I'm > not getting much sleep lately because Dove wakes me up like clock work [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > ML Slimpickins I found this it is herabl aroma therapy http://www.catsu.com/catpilows.html couldn't hurt. > Slimpickins > > I found this it is herabl aroma therapy > http://www.catsu.com/catpilows.html > > couldn't hurt. ** Thanks.. for me? Or for my kitten? ;-) ML for your kitten, but who knows you might like it? I also consulted the shelter where I got my cats and I found this (in pdf format) about talkative cats http://www.ddfl.org/behavior/talkative-cat.pdf pamela > for your kitten, but who knows you might like it? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > pamela **Thanks for the info, Pamela! I was just kidding around. :-) Well darn if Dove's not sleeping like a new-born baby on my bed at this moment, and now I'm wide awake, but of course, when I* finally drop off, he'll wake up and then the cycle begins again. :-) ML You could try a warm bath, hot chocolate and a turkey sandwich, all of which could help knock you out so you can go to sleep earlier and not mind waking up at 5:00 AM. -- Barb Of course I don't look busy, I did it right the first time. > As some here already know, I have a 14 week old kitten, Dove. Well, I'm >not getting much sleep lately because Dove wakes me up like clock work each [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Soo, does anyone please know of a good 'knock out' type of herbal remedy, >ML I don' t think a herbal remedy is your answer, or even safe. What you need to do is train your kitten properly. When Meep would start this (at 3am!) I would pick her up, set her outside the door, shut the door firmly, and go back to bed. Fortunately, she's a quiet cat and catches on quick. I'd yell at her at time or two when she'd paw and meow, and a couple of times I'd come ROARING to the door and then literally fling the door open and ROAR at her. Then shut the door and go back to bed (I find cat language very effective. I growl to warn her she's on dangerous ground, and that works well too.) Worked so well that it only took her two weeks to consistently learn that the alarm was the magic time - I'd crack open an eye just before the alarm went off, and she'd be sitting on the floor, waiting, and jump up the instant the alarm went off! I've heard some people have had success with keeping a vaccum cleaner by the bed, do what I did, then when she gets annoying on the other side of the door, you simply turn the vaccum on for a few seconds. Meep's eight now, and still knows better than to wake us up before the alarm. However, she still tries to push the envelope: She purrs very loudly in the early morning, and it's evident by the sound she's doing it on purpose. I allow that, 'cause I can go back to sleep - she can't purr loud enough. I growl at her if she tries to sneak up the bed (she's not allowed past my hips when I'm sleeping - I react badly to sudden cold noses in the night). Yesterday, she started telling me to get up (meeping), so I had to push her off the bed. She didn't do it again this morning :) They do learn, but the key is to be consistent. If you don't train her now, you'll never get a full night's sleep. Drugging your kitten, even with herbal remedies, isn't an answer, it's only a bandaid. jmc usenet [at] jodi [dit] ws Any day you learn something isn't a total waste. > > As some here already know, I have a 14 week old kitten, Dove. Well, I'm > >not getting much sleep lately because Dove wakes me up like clock work each [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > > jmc ***Hey 'J', Thanks for the good belly laugh you gave me :-)! Gosh that was funny to me. I'm referring the 'tip' you gave me of keeping a vacuum by the bedside and flipping it 'on', when Dove starts up. That's hilarious! :-) Fortunately Dove is also a fairly quick learner, it's having my other* cat Jessie in the very next room that helps stimute Dove when I put him out of my room. I don't have an alternative, as long as I have Jessie, as I just have 2 bedrooms in my home, and leaving both out in the house would definelty cause more noise and upheaval. I can already hear imaginary 'stuff' being banged against and cat meows. They play pretty rough together. None of this just sniffing each other and then going along their own way.., How I Wish! Anyway, I am currently now trying to find Jessie a good home because I have not been able to bond with him, try as I might, nor do I like his personality. It's a totally bad fit with mine. But, that's a whole nuther post. Yet for now, I still have Jessie and continue to have him until I can find him a home, and that could be months from now. It- Dove waking me up- would be an easy (solution to) fix if I just had Dove, as I'd implement all the common sense rules you stated, but still having Jessie with me/us in the house throws a money wrench into the equation. I guess *I'll* be the one having to take a 'knock out' potion, until I can find Jessie a home, much as I hate the thought.. ML > None of this just sniffing each other and then going along their > own way.., How I Wish! Heh. That isn't a cats way. They *do* like to play rough. Its part of what they are. Anyway, I am currently now trying to > find Jessie a good home because I have not been able to bond > with him, try as I might, nor do I like his personality. It's a > totally bad fit with mine. But, that's a whole nuther post. Why don't you tell us about it? How long have you had Jessie? How old is he? What is his personality, and what would you /mold/ it to if you could? Was Jessie there first, or Dove? SignatureCheryl > Yet for now, I still have Jessie and continue to have him until I can find > him a home, and that could be months from now. It- Dove waking me up- > would > be an easy (solution to) fix if I just had Dove, as I'd implement all the > common sense rules you stated, but still having Jessie with me/us in the > house throws a money wrench into the equation. Why don't you let Dove stay with Jessie in the other room overnight? Why is Jessie in a separate room and Dove out? Of course that's going to distract the hell out of Dove, to have the other kitten just out of reach. How long have you had Jessie? What is it about him you don't like? Please be careful finding him a good home. Whatever you do, do NOT place a "free to good home" ad. Where are you? I might be able to help. Signature-Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net "Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG > I don' t think a herbal remedy is your answer, or even safe. What you need > to do is train your kitten properly. When Meep would start this (at 3am!) I [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > effective. I growl to warn her she's on dangerous ground, and that works > well too.) Hah. Okay, maybe that worked for the Meepster. Oscar, on the other hand ... If Oscar is locked outside of the room, she will use her paws to shake the door back and forth in the frame. This is loud. It will continue for ... well, I'm absolutely sure it's at least 3 hours, and suspect it is as long as it takes for the human to come to her senses and let Oscar back in. Growling doesn't work. Hissing doesn't work. Throwing teddy bears and shoes at the door to create a loud noise doesn't work; it just causes a pause of about 3 nanoseconds. We now have a large enough house that I can lock her in the basement she's far enough away that I can't hear the pounding, but of course the guilt trip I give myself is far worse than sleep deprivation. Playing with her a *lot* before bed does seem to help, though. Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* >> I don' t think a herbal remedy is your answer, or even safe. What you need >> to do is train your kitten properly. When Meep would start this (at 3am!) I [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >Playing with her a *lot* before bed does seem to help, though. Heh. Sounds like Oscar has you well trained :) As long as you keep letting her back in when she's rattling the door, you're rewarding the behavior and guaranteeing it will continue. Essentially, you've now trained her to carry on behaving badly until you let her back in. Sounds like you have your work cut out for you. My advantage was, I trained Meep from the very beginning, before she could get to this stage. It's harder to retrain bad behavior than it is to train a kitten to not do it in the first place. Have you tried: When Oscar misbehaves in the bedroom, set her outside the door. When she misbehaves outside the door, IMMEDIATELY grab her and put her in the basement. And don't let the guilt trip get to you. As long as she's in no danger there, and she has some sort of bedding, food and water, there's no reason to feel guilty. The difficulty with the basement is the step I left out when I wrote the original email. Once Meep was actually quiet outside the door for at least, oh, 10 minutes, I'd let her back in. As long as she behaved, she was fine. When she broke the rules, whoosh, back outside the door. The second time, she stayed out there all night (or the rest of the night, depending on if this was "you can't go to sleep, I want to play!" or "Wake up, it's time to play!"), 'cause I wasn't about to play musical doors with a kitten all night. But I'd do it once, so she'd learn what she needed to do to be allowed in the bedroom. But if you can't hear her in the basement, you can't reward her for NOT banging on the door or carrying on. I wonder if you'd be able to do this during the day? Grab a good book, sequester yourself in the bedroom, and wait for Oscar to annoy you. Set her outside the door, shut it, then wait for her to give up. Just an idea I had just now. Perhaps with some polishing you could come up with a better idea. I'm never sure how much of Meep's good behavior is her, how much is my training methods, and how much is simply our close bond. Whatever the reason, she's an extraordinarily well-behaved cat, and was super easy to train. Well, except for the bedroom thing. That took about 2 weeks, if I remember correctly. You gotta be strong and stubborn to train your average cat. jmc usenet [at] jodi [dit] ws Any day you learn something isn't a total waste. <SNIP> Ok... I have confirmed that Valerian works for cats. But we are talking about a VERY MILD dosage for a kitten. Tea would be best. The ratio for humans is 1 tsp of herb (Valerian root) to 1 cup of boiling water, keep just above a simmer for 20 min, cool.... & then DILUTE 10 TO 1.... (Feel free to drink it full strength yourself)& feed your kitten, in it's water or mixed with a little canned food (one ounce of diluted tea). You can increase the dosage 1/10 th at a time (Give it a couple of days between increases) to a MAXIMUM of 6 to 1. That's the herbal reasearch, but realistically, I agree with all the people who recomend training it out of the little furmonster. & as a last resort, DRUG DA HOOMAN FIRST!!! It's easier to controll your dosage than the cat's. SignatureMathew Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat En Vino Veritas >Soo, does anyone please know of a good 'knock out' type of herbal remedy, >that is, of course, completely safe and non-toxic for a 4 poundish kitten? I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >ML I wouldn't sedate a kitten, even herbally, any more than I'd sedate a baby to sleep through the night. If it got so severe I was suffering from sleep loss, I'd lock the kitten away in another room at night. You can also try wearing him out playing before bedtime. Good luck!! Sherry |
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