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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / September 2003Early age neutering?
A very good friend of mine who has taken over running our local shelter decided to try EAN (?). She asked me what I thought of it and since I have had no personal experience with it (my vet/boss doesn't believe in it) I told her what I had heard from people in these groups. Some here have said it's fine and even easier on the animals. So far only one vet (new school) in our area will agree to perform the surgery at such a young age. Our local spay/neuter clinic won't even do it until the animal is 5 months old. Of the few that have been done so far more then half have had complications, one family has spent close to $400.00 so far trying to treat a vaginal infection and the dog still has a greenish discharge (they live out of state and I get updates from her mother, who is a client of ours). Others (local people) have had to treat for urinary tract infections/problems and vaginal infections. So needless to say she is thinking about stopping it. My question is do you think it's the surgery being done so young or possibly the vet doing something wrong? I don't personally know this vet as they are new to our area. Any opinions/experiences would be appreciated. TIA Nadine > A very good friend of mine who has taken over running our local > shelter decided to try EAN (?). She asked me what I thought of it and > since I have had no personal experience with it (my vet/boss doesn't > believe in it) I told her what I had heard from people in these groups. > Some here have said it's fine and even easier on the animals. The younger of my two cats, Rizzo, was neutered at about ten weeks. (He was originally adopted by another family who returned him to the shelter because their dog didn't like him!). He's very healthy (the vet's words, not my own wishful thinking), very happy, and I can't see where it's afftected him negatively in any way. He's very active and gets along famously with my other cat, Jack. It certainly hasn't impacted his growth, which is explosive. He's just about six months old now, and is getting to be quite the big galoot. The local animal shelter does it routinely, and having now met numerous people who've adopted cats from there, I'd say if anything they're uncommonly healthy. > A very good friend of mine who has taken over running our local > shelter decided to try EAN (?). She asked me what I thought of it and > since I have had no personal experience with it (my vet/boss doesn't > believe in it) I told her what I had heard from people in these groups. > Some here have said it's fine and even easier on the animals. Absolutely! Young kittens have less abdominal fat and muscle to cut through which means less tissue trauma, shorter operative time and quicker healing. The smaller blood vessels allow for precise hemostasis - with virtually no bleeding - which also and shortens operative time. Here's a video - you'll see what I mean: http://www.maxshouse.com/Early_Age_Spay-1.wmv So far > only one vet (new school) in our area will agree to perform the surgery > at such a young age. Our local spay/neuter clinic won't even do it [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > vet as they are new to our area. Any opinions/experiences would be > appreciated. TIA All our kittens are neutered between 10 and 12 weeks - providing they're healthy. Not a one complication as long as the proper precautions and protocols are followed. All the myths about complications from EAN have been debunked. A lot of vets still question EAN because of they're unfamiliar with surgery and anesthesia on pediatric animals. EAN wasn't taught in vet schools until recently. Phil. Thanks to every one who responded. It would seem from your answers that the problems may be being caused from the surgery being done improperly and not age related. We will try again to find another vet in our area that is willing to do EAN. The one who is performing them now is doing it at 8/9 weeks, maybe we'll start waiting until they are at least 12 weeks old and see if that decreases the problems. I'm not sure if they are waiting until they are 2 pounds or not, I'll have to double check that. Thanks again. Nadine I had my first male cat neutered at eight months. But I suspected that he had started to 'spray' mark territory shortly before he was neutered, so I had my second male cat neutered at six months. The Vet said that he does not like to do it before six months because of the dangers of the aenesthetic when administered at an earlier age. So unless I hear or read that issue directly, clearly, and convincingly addressed, I will continue to go by the six month rule in the future. After all, why subject a tiny kitten to surgery and aenesthetic any sooner than necessary? -cr >After all, why subject a tiny kitten to >surgery and aenesthetic any sooner than necessary? > >-cr to guarantee compliance with placed and adopted animals, whether from a shelter or private home. Lot's of good intentions, but people just don't follow through 100%. Early S/N guarantees that there will be no reproduction for the animal. The shelter I work with has been doing it for over a decade and it's a truly great program. Janet Boss Best Friends Dog Obedience "Nice Manners for the Family Pet" Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com >I had my first male cat neutered at eight months. But I suspected that he >had started to 'spray' mark territory shortly before he was neutered, so I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >six month rule in the future. After all, why subject a tiny kitten to >surgery and aenesthetic any sooner than necessary? This post is going to get me flamed. I don't really care. I have eight Cats. Two Maine Coons, two Siamese and four shelter adopted cats. The Maine coon is a slow growing cat. Most Maine Coon breeders don't recommend neutering a male until the age of NINE months. Male cats of any type are normally not neutered until six months. A few Maine Coon breeders have capitulated to the early neuter crowd. They are afraid of back yard breeders. This argument has some merit , but I don't think you should do something that has NO proven benefit and could be detrimental. I have seen the results of early neutering in male Maine coons. Some appear to attain normal growth. Others are clearly smaller and less developed because of early neuter. In the case of mixed breeds , it is impossible to tell if the procedure has detrimental effects at this time. The SPCA has taken the stance that all their cats are going to be fixed at six weeks old. They seem to have enough donations to get away with it. Other shelters are taking the same stance. I think it is going to blow up in their faces. Most people who have purebred cats also have shelter adopted cats. I am not a breeder , but most breeders have disposable income. Many breeders will no longer donate to shelters because of this issue. There are attorneys and other professionals who will no longer do pro bono work for shelters over this issue. Vets seem to be divided over this issue. The reason I am anti-declaw is because there is incontrovertible evidence that it is not beneficial to cats. There are intelligent people on both sides of the early neuter issue. I think it will take another twenty years before we know the true consequences of early spay/ neuter. The only real argument of merit at this time is to prevent irresponsible people from having " Just One Litter " Many people have paid in advance for neutering , but supposedly never bothered to get the cat neutered. They could have gotten it done at there own Vet. Maybe they moved out of town and got it done at some Vet unrelated to the shelter. I have never even been able to pin down shelter workers on this issue. Unless somebody wants the final papers on a purebred cat , I would think a lot of them just don't bother sending " proof " to the shelter if the neuter was done by a Vet who is not connected to the shelter. Thanks to the shelter's hard line stance on this issue , I won't be adopting any more shelter cats. Reputable breeders won't sell a cat to just anybody. I don't understand why my references are not good enough to convince these shelter operators that I will get the cat spay/ neutered , but I don't want a cat that has been fixed at six weeks old. Thanks to early spay / neutering , there is often no way of knowing when an adult cat was fixed. I think that the early spay / neuter crowd has gone off the deep end and is hurting the chances of mixed breed cats getting adopted. >-cr >From: Misty9999 XYZ@XYZinvalid.com >The SPCA has taken the stance that all their cats are going to be >fixed at six weeks old. What "SPCA"? There is no country-wide umbrella organization by this name/acronym. The ASPCA in NYC is an independent shelter, as are the many "SPCA's" in various parts of the country. Each has their own stance. > They seem to have enough donations to get away >with it. Other shelters are taking the same stance. I think it is >going to blow up in their faces. Bunk. Once again, donations are to INDIVIDUAL SHELTERS - there is no global "SPCA". > Most people who have purebred cats >also have shelter adopted cats. I am not a breeder , but most breeders >have disposable income. Many breeders will no longer donate to >shelters because of this issue. Very hard to believe. >There are attorneys and other >professionals who will no longer do pro bono work for shelters over >this issue. Once again, pure bizarre speculation. >Vets seem to be divided over this issue. This is true. > I think it will take >another twenty years before we know the true consequences of early >spay/ neuter. The shelter I work with has been doing it for about 12 years. True consequences? How about a reduction in the number of cats reproducing. I'll take that anyday! > The only real argument of merit at this time is to >prevent irresponsible people from having " Just One Litter " And accidental litters, and surrendering their male cat for spraying, and keeping the cats healthy and emotionally stable. >Thanks to the shelter's hard line stance on this issue , I won't be >adopting any more shelter cats. Reputable breeders won't sell a cat >to just anybody. I don't understand why my references are not good >enough to convince these shelter operators that I will get the cat >spay/ neutered , but I don't want a cat that has been fixed at six >weeks old. Because the best intentions don't guarantee compliance. Your "references" are that you don't know much about shelter organization for one! Too bad your fear of consequences of early s/n could mean death for the cat you "would" have adopted. That's a better choice? >Thanks to early spay / neutering , there is often no way of knowing >when an adult cat was fixed. I think that the early spay / neuter >crowd has gone off the deep end and is hurting the chances of mixed >breed cats getting adopted. > >>-cr Janet Boss Best Friends Dog Obedience "Nice Manners for the Family Pet" Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com >>From: Misty9999 XYZ@XYZinvalid.com > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Bunk. Once again, donations are to INDIVIDUAL SHELTERS - there is no global >"SPCA". SPCA is the best known acronym. I never meant to imply that they were all one global organization. For your convenience , I will call them " shelters" >> Most people who have purebred cats >>also have shelter adopted cats. I am not a breeder , but most breeders >>have disposable income. Many breeders will no longer donate to >>shelters because of this issue. > >Very hard to believe. Why? >>There are attorneys and other >>professionals who will no longer do pro bono work for shelters over >>this issue. > >Once again, pure bizarre speculation. No speculation whatsoever on this issue. For everybody who even bothers to post on the internet, there are 1,000's who don't really care about online boards. I will go with real life people who are fed up with most shelters attitude on this issue. >>Vets seem to be divided over this issue. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >consequences? How about a reduction in the number of cats reproducing. I'll >take that anyday! And how about the cats who won't be adopted over this issue? I was talking about the possible health consequences to the cats. >> The only real argument of merit at this time is to >>prevent irresponsible people from having " Just One Litter " > >And accidental litters, and surrendering their male cat for spraying, and >keeping the cats healthy and emotionally stable. Can't you read. I am all for spay/neuter. I am against shelters doing it at an age that could cause potential problems for the cat. >>Thanks to the shelter's hard line stance on this issue , I won't be >>adopting any more shelter cats. Reputable breeders won't sell a cat [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >of consequences of early s/n could mean death for the cat you "would" have >adopted. That's a better choice? My references are the type of home I give my cats and proof that they get proper veterinary care, nutritional care etc. My ONLY choice at this time ( if I wanted to get another cat ) is to buy from a breeder. Most " shelters" have taken the choice of the spay/neuter time frame from the potential adopter. Sorry , but I refuse to be forced to do something that myself and a lot of Vets don't agree with. > >I had my first male cat neutered at eight months. But I suspected that he > >had started to 'spray' mark territory shortly before he was neutered, so I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >directly, clearly, and convincingly addressed, I will continue to go by the > >six month rule in the future. It has been.directly, clearly, and convincingly addressed for more than *20* years..... Here are three studies that have been published in peer-reviewed veterinary medical journals... for starters. Faggella AM all(] Aronsohn MG Anesthetic techniques for neutering 6 to 14 week?old kittens. J Ain Net Med Assoc 202:56, 1993. (This is a study comparing four anesthetic protocols used for early neutering in kittens) Grandy IL and Dunlop Cl: Anesthesia of pups and kittens. J Am Vet Med Assoc 198:1244, 1991. (Here's a study reviewing physiology, pharmacokinetics, and anesthetics used in pediatric animals). Theran P: Early-age neutering of dogs and cats. J Am Vet Med Assoc 202: 914, 1993. (This is a review of surgical and anesthetic techniques for neutering 6- to 14-week-old puppies and kittens). When you finish these, I'll give you more. But these ought to convince you After all, why subject a tiny kitten to > >surgery and aenesthetic any sooner than necessary? Earlier *is* necessary because young kittens have less abdominal fat and muscle to cut through and heal. Therefore, early age neutering is *less* traumatic for the kitten, requires *shorter* anesthetic and operative times, and recovery and healing is *much* faster than the outdated, traditional age. > This post is going to get me flamed. I don't really care. I wouldn't flame a person who honestly doesn't know better and is simply misinformed and/or uninformed. I have eight > Cats. Two Maine Coons, two Siamese and four shelter adopted cats. The > Maine coon is a slow growing cat. Most Maine Coon breeders don't > recommend neutering a male until the age of NINE months. There are a lot of uninformed and misinformed people around who are still in the dark ages about neutering. Many breeders think being a breeder automatically makes them a wiz or some kind of expert. Think about it, look at the mentality of the average breeder: 2 many cats + a few more cats = need more cats... > A few Maine Coon breeders have capitulated to the early neuter crowd. The smarter ones.... > They are afraid of back yard breeders. This argument has some merit , > but I don't think you should do something that has NO proven benefit > and could be detrimental. Early age neutering *does* have *several* *proven* benefits and advantages over traditional age neutering... You *really* need to do some research and update your knowledge on the subject. Most of your information is outdated by at least *20 years*. > I have seen the results of early neutering in male Maine coons. Some > appear to attain normal growth. Others are clearly smaller and less > developed because of early neuter. LOL! That is old outdated *myth* that was debunked many years ago. Rather than stunted growth, early age neutering results in either normal stature or even *greater* stature! Gonadal hormones control the closure of the growth plate at the ends of the bones (that's where the bones grow from).. In the absence of the hormones, the growth plate remains open for a longer time -- so the bones continue to grow. The delay in the closure of the growth plate happens *regardless* if the cat is neutered at 8 weeks or 9 months. The difference in stature you noticed was more likely genetic-related rather neuter related... In the case of mixed breeds , it is > impossible to tell if the procedure has detrimental effects at this > time. Early age neutering was developed for *shelters* - not breeders. More than *35 years* of studies have shown *no* detrimental effects of early age neutering providing that the vet follows *well established* anesthetic protocols and surgical techniques. > The SPCA has taken the stance that all their cats are going to be > fixed at six weeks old. They seem to have enough donations to get away > with it. Other shelters are taking the same stance. I think it is > going to blow up in their faces. Actually, early age neutering has proved quite successful. Early age neutering A. Benefits the shelter because it guarantees the cat will not have kittens - many of which would probably end up in the shelter adding to the overpopulation problem. B. Benefits the adoptives because they don't have to worry about neutering the cat and running the risk of more kittens. C. Benefits the cat because the surgery is less traumatic, recovery and healing are faster and less painful. D. Benefits the vet because anesthetic and operative times are shorter; surgery is easier and more precise because visualization of the organs is better because of less abdominal fat and muscle; virtually no bleeding because the smaller vessel size allows for *precise* hemostasis . E. Benefits cats as a *species* because of less unwanted/accidental births which results in less deaths. Most people who have purebred cats > also have shelter adopted cats. I am not a breeder , but most breeders > have disposable income. Many breeders will no longer donate to > shelters because of this issue. There are attorneys and other > professionals who will no longer do pro bono work for shelters over > this issue. Vets seem to be divided over this issue. Where on earth do you get your information from??? > The reason I am anti-declaw is because there is incontrovertible > evidence that it is not beneficial to cats. At least you've got that right! There are intelligent > people on both sides of the early neuter issue. I think it will take > another twenty years before we know the true consequences of early > spay/ neuter. "We"? You mean *you* and your uninformed breeder. The twenty years have come and gone... No adverse effects on physical and behavioral development in cats neutered at early ages have ever been documented in more than 20 years of clinical studies. The only real argument of merit at this time is to > prevent irresponsible people from having " Just One Litter " No, early age neutering benefits the *cat*, the owner, the vet, and cats as a species. <? snipped> > Thanks to the shelter's hard line stance on this issue , I won't be > adopting any more shelter cats. That's right, punish the cats... > Reputable breeders won't sell a cat > to just anybody. Yes. The buyer must have money. I don't understand why my references are not good > enough to convince these shelter operators that I will get the cat > spay/ neutered , ...because 80% of the people who adopt intact cats really do get them neutered..... after a litter or two.... but I don't want a cat that has been fixed at six > weeks old. You'll feel differently after you've done some research from *credible* sources. > Thanks to early spay / neutering , there is often no way of knowing > when an adult cat was fixed. You can't tell if an adult cat was neutered at six months unless the vet did a sloppy job. Many vets use a small tattoo near the incision or stainless steel subcutaneous sutures that are easily detectable on x-rays I think that the early spay / neuter > crowd has gone off the deep end and is hurting the chances of mixed > breed cats getting adopted. You're very wrong. Actually, EAN makes adopting cats from a shelter *more* appealing because most adoptives are delighted the cats were neutered before adoption! You really need to do some serious research on EAN because you have been misinformed about a lot of things. Phil > Thanks to the shelter's hard line stance on this issue , I won't be > adopting any more shelter cats. <snip a whole lot of misinformation> This comment alone is good enough for me to vote "YES" to a new newsgroup for breeds and breeders. That and all the misinformation you just spewed. Keep it out of a real pet health newsgroup. >> Thanks to the shelter's hard line stance on this issue , I won't be >> adopting any more shelter cats. > ><snip a whole lot of misinformation> No professional Vet has ever said to me that there is NO evidence in favor of early neuter. The questions are about the validity of the * statistics* used. You have to look at the number of cats used in the study. You have to isolate variables. You have to look at the control groups . Anybody with can come up with study after study that supports a cause. I still don't consider the evidence incontrovertible. Neither does my Vet. >This comment alone is good enough for me to vote "YES" to a new >newsgroup for breeds and breeders. That and all the misinformation >you just spewed. Keep it out of a real pet health newsgroup. There are differences of professional opinion among board certified vets. There are people who question the statistical validity of some of these early neuter studies.That is not misinformation. I used to donate time and money to a shelter. I handled legal and accounting issues. I also brought in a couple of professional people who were looking to adopt. I was told that the NO exceptions to the early neuter rule applied even to people I *know* would give a great home to a cat applied..That person adopted from my Vet. Yes the cat was fixed- at six months old. Some Vets re-home too. Believe it or not some breeders rescue their breeds from shelters and re-home. The last straw was when I brought another person who I know would have given a cat a good home. She did not find a cat that she liked at the shelter. She mentioned that she might look at a Hymilayan. The worker went ballistic. " Thanks to people like you we have to destroy 1.5 million cats a year " What a wonderful attitude. The shelter director apologized to me over what happened. Still , I decided to leave. I think some pet rescue workers have gone over the deep end. >>> Thanks to the shelter's hard line stance on this issue , I won't >>> be adopting any more shelter cats. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > No professional Vet has ever said to me that there is NO evidence in > favor of early neuter. There have been numerous facts listed here and just because all vets don't subscribe to this procedure doesn't mean there aren't benefits. They are old school. We'll have to agree to disagree and I just hope that those who are seeking the real answer will see that there are more benefits to EAN than not. I for one won't ignore it when it means the difference between preventing even one litter. The questions are about the validity of the * > statistics* used. You have to look at the number of cats used in the > study. You have to isolate variables. You have to look at the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > vets. There are people who question the statistical validity of some > of these early neuter studies.That is not misinformation. Who? Show me a study please. <snip> > The last straw was when I brought another person who I know would > have given a cat a good home. She did not find a cat that she [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Still , I decided to leave. I think some pet rescue workers have > gone over the deep end. This has nothing to do with EAN and everything to do with your experience with a nasty shelter worker. If you won't adopt from a shelter anymore, please state the truth why and not that you won't because of the stance on EAN. > > Thanks to the shelter's hard line stance on this issue , I won't be > > adopting any more shelter cats. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > newsgroup for breeds and breeders. That and all the misinformation > you just spewed. Keep it out of a real pet health newsgroup. This poster stinks suspiciously like She Who Shall Not Be Named a.k.a. The Sucubus. I think you all know who I mean... -L. |
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