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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / December 2004toughening up my 9 month old kitten
I'm kind of joking. The problem I have is that I have two kittens one is the 9 month old that I got from a train conductor. It was rescued from a freight yard. The other is 8 months old and I got it from a local shelter to keep the other one company. The problem I have is that the younger one is both hyper active (and in my opinion a bit on the brain damaged side. I hate to call him stupid but let's just say he's not the brightest bulb in the chandelier.) and an alpha male. The older one is normally active and a very submissive beta male. I'm looking for a way to "toughen" him up a bit. The problem is that he's very submissive. The younger alpha male is beating on the older beta male without mercy. The older cat is bigger and stronger then the younger one and from time to time will actually defend himself and does a good job of it. They're both sweet cats but it's hard to watch the older one get beat on all the time. Is my approach of staying out of their "fights" and letting them settle things between themselves the right approach or should I be doing something to get the older one to defend himself. If so what?? On the positive side they haven't actually hurt each other yet.  SignatureKeep working millions on welfare depend on you ------------------- fwp@deepthought.com > I'm kind of joking. The problem I have is that I have two kittens one is the > 9 month old that I got from a train conductor. It was rescued from a freight [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > the older one to defend himself. If so what?? On the positive side they > haven't actually hurt each other yet. Stop worrying, fight the urge to meddle and let them work it out. > The older cat is bigger and stronger then the younger one and from time to > time will actually defend himself and does a good job of it. They're both [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the older one to defend himself. If so what?? On the positive side they > haven't actually hurt each other yet. I figure, untill fur flys & blood is shed, let 'em have at it. I did a little bonding thing with my kittens, gave 'em both a bath & let them huddle together under a blanket shivering & grroming. Seems to have worked, they're curled up asleep together @ the moment. Not to say they don't fight, but it seems to all be in good fun. Your cat's will sort out a level... Just try & let 'em know that YOU asre the true alpha male (as much as this is possible).... Remember, you controll the food. Mathew Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat En Vino Veritas > I'm kind of joking. The problem I have is that I have two kittens one is the > 9 month old that I got from a train conductor. It was rescued from a freight [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > the older one to defend himself. If so what?? On the positive side they > haven't actually hurt each other yet. You could be describing the relationship between two of my cats. Sebbie was a rescued feral male kitten whom I socialized and then introduced to my (then) two other cats. Benjie was the male of my first two (of this time around) cats. He was a shelter kitten. Benjie is a beautiful LH tuxedo boy who's a bit of a flamer, to my mind. He poses on the runway of life and knows he's knock-out gorgeous. He's long-limbed and slender. Sebbie OTOH is built like a tanker, a LH brown tabby. He's got that feral shyness and spends most of his time in the basement, where he terrorizes the resident mice. Benjie lords it over Sebbie, bossing him around, disciplining him, and generally abusing him. Every once in a while, though, it's like Sebbie wakes up and realizes he's bigger than Benjie and can beat him up. So he starts to, and Benjie cries and whimpers that it's not fair! His underling is beating him up! I tell him it's his own fault for psychologically abusing Sebbie, but I also break it up when the crying gets intense. It's a complex relationship. Neither actually injures the other, but they've got this drama going, and it's interesting to observe. I love both of them, and each gets his own special time with me. Benjie likes to wake me up in the morning, and he loves to snuggle while we watch TV. Sebbie loves to be groomed, and I just got a wonderful self-cleaning slicker brush which seems to suit him to a T. A bellyrub is bliss for him. I'd say let them work it out. Mr. Beta may be comfortable in his role, and attempts on your part to change their social structure might just make them both unhappy. Definitely keep an eye on it, but don't intervene unless someone is actually being hurt. And make sure each gets special attention from you so they know that no matter what their relationship with each other is, you love them each in a special way. Hope this helps. Priscilla Signature"It is very, very dangerous to treat any human, lowest of the low even, with contempt and arrogant whatever. The Lord takes this kind of treatment very, very personal." - QBaal in newsgroup alt.religion.christian.episcopal What Priscilla said :> Lol. Sounds familiar to the goings on at our house. > What Priscilla said :> > Lol. Sounds familiar to the goings on at our house. Cats is cats the world around. ;-) Priscilla Signature"It is very, very dangerous to treat any human, lowest of the low even, with contempt and arrogant whatever. The Lord takes this kind of treatment very, very personal." - QBaal in newsgroup alt.religion.christian.episcopal : > I'm kind of joking. The problem I have is that I have two kittens one is the : > 9 month old that I got from a train conductor. It was rescued from a freight [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] : > the older one to defend himself. If so what?? On the positive side they : > haven't actually hurt each other yet. : You could be describing the relationship between two of my cats. Sebbie : was a rescued feral male kitten whom I socialized and then introduced to [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] : I tell him it's his own fault for psychologically abusing Sebbie, but I : also break it up when the crying gets intense. : It's a complex relationship. Neither actually injures the other, but : they've got this drama going, and it's interesting to observe. I love [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] : slicker brush which seems to suit him to a T. A bellyrub is bliss for : him. : I'd say let them work it out. Mr. Beta may be comfortable in his role, : and attempts on your part to change their social structure might just : make them both unhappy. Definitely keep an eye on it, but don't : intervene unless someone is actually being hurt. And make sure each : gets special attention from you so they know that no matter what their : relationship with each other is, you love them each in a special way. : Hope this helps. It actually does help a lot. I of course will do nothing overt to try and make the beta male more aggressive. After all it's a part of his personality to be that way. It's the first time I've had a beta male cat and it's frustrating. When I yell at him for knocking over the garbage he first cowers in fear and the rolls over on his back to submitt to me!! The kittens aren't hurting each other although the beta is a bit standoffish they do get along well. SignatureKeep working millions on welfare depend on you ------------------- fwp@deepthought.com > It actually does help a lot. I of course will do nothing overt to try and > make the beta male more aggressive. After all it's a part of his personality > to be that way. It's the first time I've had a beta male cat and it's > frustrating. When I yell at him for knocking over the garbage he first cowers > in fear and the rolls over on his back to submitt to me!! I'm not convinced that yelling at a cat who gives the response of cowering in fear is an appropriate response. Please think about it. Also, rolling over on his back may not be submission. On his back, all of his weapons -- teeth and claws -- are at the ready and can be brought to bear. Does he think he has to defend himself from you? Priscilla Signature"It is very, very dangerous to treat any human, lowest of the low even, with contempt and arrogant whatever. The Lord takes this kind of treatment very, very personal." - QBaal in newsgroup alt.religion.christian.episcopal : > It actually does help a lot. I of course will do nothing overt to try and : > make the beta male more aggressive. After all it's a part of his personality : > to be that way. It's the first time I've had a beta male cat and it's : > frustrating. When I yell at him for knocking over the garbage he first cowers : > in fear and the rolls over on his back to submitt to me!! : I'm not convinced that yelling at a cat who gives the response of : cowering in fear is an appropriate response. Please think about it. I suppose I could start to hit the kitten when you does something wrong. I can't see getting better results that way though and I don't like the idea of hitting the cat. On the positive side I've got them mostly house trained so this is becoming less of an issue and in a month or two it should only be an on going effort at keeping things under control. : Also, rolling over on his back may not be submission. On his back, all : of his weapons -- teeth and claws -- are at the ready and can be brought : to bear. Does he think he has to defend himself from you? In this case his rolling on his back is a form of submission. The only part of me that he's ever tried to bite or scratch are my feet and that was when he was playing. SignatureKeep working millions on welfare depend on you ------------------- fwp@deepthought.com >: I'm not convinced that yelling at a cat who gives the response of >: cowering in fear is an appropriate response. Please think about it. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > so this is becoming less of an issue and in a month or two it should only be > an on going effort at keeping things under control. I'm quite sure that's not what Priscilla meant. In a lot of cases, a stern, commanding voice works better than yelling. Hey, that's even true with kids and dogs! Who'da thunk? Signaturemonique, who is sometimes allowed to pet Oscar, a grey^H^H^H^Hblue-cream DLH with an attitude! : >: I'm not convinced that yelling at a cat who gives the response of : >: cowering in fear is an appropriate response. Please think about it. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] : > so this is becoming less of an issue and in a month or two it should only be : > an on going effort at keeping things under control. : I'm quite sure that's not what Priscilla meant. : In a lot of cases, a stern, commanding voice works better than yelling. Hey, : that's even true with kids and dogs! Who'da thunk? I didn't think that Priscilla really did and I probably misused the word yell. They're more like one syllable shouts that aren't always complete words. ( usually I shout GET or HEY) Like you suggest it's done in a commanding way that is completely different then the way I normally speak to them. This way they don't get confused. I've had a lot of cats over the years and I found that the "shout" method works better the squirt guns and hitting. It's just hard with the beta kitten I have. Whenever I try to disipline him he rolls over and submits. SignatureKeep working millions on welfare depend on you ------------------- fwp@deepthought.com > : >: I'm not convinced that yelling at a cat who gives the response of > : >: cowering in fear is an appropriate response. Please think about it. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > It's just hard with the beta kitten I have. Whenever I try to disipline him > he rolls over and submits. Come on. You've got a bigger brain than him. Use it! When you do A, he consistently does B, which is behavior you're not seeking. Now, what might you do to get different results? I know you can figure this out. Priscilla Signature"It is very, very dangerous to treat any human, lowest of the low even, with contempt and arrogant whatever. The Lord takes this kind of treatment very, very personal." - QBaal in newsgroup alt.religion.christian.episcopal > : > It actually does help a lot. I of course will do nothing overt to try and > : > make the beta male more aggressive. After all it's a part of his [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I suppose I could start to hit the kitten when you does something wrong. Freudian slip. > I can't see getting better results that way though and I don't like the idea > of hitting the cat. Ha ha. Kindly think about my point instead of playing games around it. > On the positive side I've got them mostly house trained They soil outside the box? > so this is becoming less of an issue and in a month or two it should only be > an on going effort at keeping things under control. Priscilla Signature"It is very, very dangerous to treat any human, lowest of the low even, with contempt and arrogant whatever. The Lord takes this kind of treatment very, very personal." - QBaal in newsgroup alt.religion.christian.episcopal > Also, rolling over on his back may not be submission. On his back, all > of his weapons -- teeth and claws -- are at the ready and can be brought > to bear. Does he think he has to defend himself from you? This is so true. I've seen cats who felt cornered go into this posture, weapons all at the ready. On the other hand, last week I was with one who fell over into this posture and went utterly limp, moaning while getting his belly rubbed and shredding the nearest pillow with his claws as he kneaded. Hilarious! Signaturehttp://www.mindspring.com/~slywy/pages/hodge.html << The older cat is bigger and stronger then the younger one and from time to time will actually defend himself and does a good job of it. >> Are they neutered yet? That will probably stifle the fighting urge a little...maybe. I have 2 adult neutered males and they would fight if I let them be together but I don't. Maybe you didn't introduce these 2 properly? It's hard to tell from a post whether it's serious fighting or general kitten play-fighting. At any rate, if they're not neutered, you should do that before they develop undesirable behaviors like spraying and it's healthier for them, too. Candace (take the litter out before replying by e-mail) See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace "One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other than human." (Loren Eisely) : << The older cat is bigger and stronger then the younger one and from time to : time will actually defend himself and does a good job of it. >> : Are they neutered yet? That will probably stifle the fighting urge a : little...maybe. I have 2 adult neutered males and they would fight if I let [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] : they develop undesirable behaviors like spraying and it's healthier for them, : too. The younger one was fixed at the shelter. I've been holding off neutering the submissive one in the hope that as a result he'll get a bit more agressive. In any case he will be getting neutered before he's a year old. SignatureKeep working millions on welfare depend on you ------------------- fwp@deepthought.com > The younger one was fixed at the shelter. I've been holding off neutering > the > submissive one in the hope that as a result he'll get a bit more > agressive. > > In any case he will be getting neutered before he's a year old. You should neuter him ASAP. He could start spraying any moment and you really don't want that. It is a bitch to clean up male cat spray. Also, you are looking at this situation wrong. You really don't want two alpha males. They will constantly clash and you will have more fighting on your hands. If you have a dominant male, you want a more submissive companion, but not too submissive to where he is constantly getting beat up or hides all the time. It sounds like you have the right balance. I used to worry about my two males who are also a month apart in age, and I got as kittens. Bartleby is the younger one and was a sickly kitten. Once he got well and became healthy and strong, he became the dominant cat. Loki, the older one, is a submissive wimpy type who spends the day laying on his back. Bartleby will randomly tackle Loki sometimes out of the blue. However, I have caught Loki provoking Bartleby, almost like he is asking to get beat up. They never hurt each other and I figure if Loki was getting hurt and didn't like it, he would stear clear of Bartleby. Signature-Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net "Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG : I'm kind of joking. The problem I have is that I have two kittens one is the : 9 month old that I got from a train conductor. It was rescued from a freight : yard. The other is 8 months old and I got it from a local shelter to keep : the other one company. : The problem I have is that the younger one is both hyper active (and in my : opinion a bit on the brain damaged side. I hate to call him stupid but let's [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] : submissive. The younger alpha male is beating on the older beta male without : mercy. : The older cat is bigger and stronger then the younger one and from time to : time will actually defend himself and does a good job of it. They're both [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] : the older one to defend himself. If so what?? On the positive side they : haven't actually hurt each other yet. Based on the replies I've been getting I think I've given the wrong impression about how the two ge along. They're not hurting each other and it doesn't seem like either is trying to hurt the other. I just wish I could get the beta kitten to do more to defend himself. While he acts as if he's afraid of the younger alpha male he is for the most part fearless. He's also a lot smarter. He's justa very passive and submissive kitten and I'd like to see him become more aggressive. SignatureKeep working millions on welfare depend on you ------------------- fwp@deepthought.com > Based on the replies I've been getting I think I've given the wrong > impression about how the two ge along. They're not hurting each other and > it doesn't seem like either is trying to hurt the other. Then you don't have a problem, Frank, you just think you do. > I just wish I could get the beta kitten to do more to defend himself. While > he acts as if he's afraid of the younger alpha male he is for the most part > fearless. He's also a lot smarter. He's justa very passive and submissive > kitten and I'd like to see him become more aggressive. It is hurting you FOR the "beta" kitten but it does not hurt him. Cats establish domination and submission as a natural thing--there is no good and bad to it. They do it because they are most comfortable knowing where they fit in. It tells them how to behave. It is the human male that takes submission as some sort of affront to his manhood, not the feline. > I just wish I could get the beta kitten to do more to defend himself. While > he acts as if he's afraid of the younger alpha male he is for the most part > fearless. He's also a lot smarter. He's justa very passive and submissive > kitten and I'd like to see him become more aggressive. I think you need to let go of the desire to control and let them be who they are. Remember that cat reality to cats is very different from human reality. I suggest looking at your attitudes and expectations to find the anthropomorphism there and try to step away from it. Priscilla Signature"It is very, very dangerous to treat any human, lowest of the low even, with contempt and arrogant whatever. The Lord takes this kind of treatment very, very personal." - QBaal in newsgroup alt.religion.christian.episcopal : > I just wish I could get the beta kitten to do more to defend himself. While : > he acts as if he's afraid of the younger alpha male he is for the most part : > fearless. He's also a lot smarter. He's justa very passive and submissive : > kitten and I'd like to see him become more aggressive. : I think you need to let go of the desire to control and let them be who : they are. Remember that cat reality to cats is very different from : human reality. I suggest looking at your attitudes and expectations to : find the anthropomorphism there and try to step away from it. We all impose a lot of control over our cats. Not the least of which is making them use a litter box. I have no desire to "make" the beta defend itself against the alpha male. I long ago learned that multiple cats in a single cat will get along faster and better if they're left alone to sort things out themselves and my two are for the most part getting along great. As I'm typing this the two are chasing each other around, stalking and pouncing on each other. I just wish the beta would defend himself a little when the alpha bullies him around. SignatureKeep working millions on welfare depend on you ------------------- fwp@deepthought.com > Not the least of which is > making them use a litter box. Cats take to litter boxes naturally, just like they do to kids' sandboxes. Your point is kind of lost. I try to manage as little behaviour as possible, unless it's dangerous or seems pathologic (hyperaggression and biting). Signaturehttp://www.mindspring.com/~slywy/pages/hodge.html : > Not the least of which is : > making them use a litter box. : Cats take to litter boxes naturally, just like they do to kids' : sandboxes. Your point is kind of lost. I try to manage as little : behaviour as possible, unless it's dangerous or seems pathologic : (hyperaggression and biting). Ok the liter box example wasn't the best one. It is normal to "control" the behavior of a cat by preventing it from jumping on tables or eating the food from your plate. Do you do anything to prevent your cats from knocking over a grabage can and spreading the grabage all around?? Would you object to your kitten deciding that toilet paper makes a great toy and starts by unspooling the roll and then shreads it and spreads the pieces all over your house? Would you try to keep it from doing it again? These are both "games" that I've had to convince my little sweethearts weren't exceptable behavior. Yes there was yelling involved!! (you'd be shocked at how much mess a shreaded roll of toilet paper scatter all over your house can make. :-) The worst part was that it happened more then once) SignatureKeep working millions on welfare depend on you ------------------- fwp@deepthought.com > (you'd be shocked at how much mess a shreaded roll of toilet paper > scatter all over your house can make. :-) The worst part was that it > happened more then once) No, I really wouldn't. Just be happy you aren't the friend I had in high school, whose poodle liked to pull used maxipads out of the trash can and tear them up! Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* > Would > you object to your kitten deciding that toilet paper makes a great toy > and starts by unspooling the roll and then shreads it and spreads the > pieces all over your house? Would you try to keep it from doing it again? Yep. I shut the bathroom door. Signaturehttp://www.mindspring.com/~slywy/pages/hodge.html "Frank Pittel" <fwp@warlock.deepthought.com> wrote in message news:ye2dnbtq6_ZdAk7cRVn-1Q@giganews.com... > Based on the replies I've been getting I think I've given the wrong > impression about how the two ge along. They're not hurting each other and > it doesn't seem like either is trying to hurt the other. Then you don't have a problem, Frank, you just think you do. > I just wish I could get the beta kitten to do more to defend himself. While > he acts as if he's afraid of the younger alpha male he is for the most part > fearless. He's also a lot smarter. He's justa very passive and submissive > kitten and I'd like to see him become more aggressive. It is hurting you FOR the "beta" kitten but it does not hurt him. Cats establish domination and submission as a natural thing--there is no good and bad to it. They do it because they are most comfortable knowing where they fit in. It tells them how to behave. It is the human male that takes submission as some sort of affront to his manhood, not the feline. : "Frank Pittel" <fwp@warlock.deepthought.com> wrote in message : news:ye2dnbtq6_ZdAk7cRVn-1Q@giganews.com... : > Based on the replies I've been getting I think I've given the wrong : > impression about how the two ge along. They're not hurting each other and : > it doesn't seem like either is trying to hurt the other. : Then you don't have a problem, Frank, you just think you do. I'm sure you're right. : > I just wish I could get the beta kitten to do more to defend himself. : While : > he acts as if he's afraid of the younger alpha male he is for the most : part : > fearless. He's also a lot smarter. He's justa very passive and submissive : > kitten and I'd like to see him become more aggressive. : It is hurting you FOR the "beta" kitten but it does not hurt him. Cats : establish domination and submission as a natural thing--there is no : good and bad to it. They do it because they are most comfortable : knowing where they fit in. It tells them how to behave. It is the human : male that takes submission as some sort of affront to his manhood, not : the feline. I do admit it bothers me to see the beta kitten get "pushed" around. Like you and others have mentioned the beta doesn't seem to have a problem with his position and I supose it's better then having two alpha males fighting for dominence<SP?>. SignatureKeep working millions on welfare depend on you ------------------- fwp@deepthought.com > I do admit it bothers me to see the beta kitten get "pushed" around. Like > you and others have mentioned the beta doesn't seem to have a problem with > his position and I supose it's better then having two alpha males fighting > for dominence<SP?>. Dominance <grin> If it makes you feel better, I'm sure this behavior would bother me, too. My brain knows that cats aren't human, but of course you want the best for your cats, and as a human it's hard to consider that being submissive and getting beat on is the best for your cat. Maybe it would help if you considered how much it would "help" the situation if you told a scrawny, nervous kid in high school to defend themselves. It could even make some situations worse. Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* : > I do admit it bothers me to see the beta kitten get "pushed" around. Like : > you and others have mentioned the beta doesn't seem to have a problem with : > his position and I supose it's better then having two alpha males fighting : > for dominence<SP?>. : Dominance <grin> : If it makes you feel better, I'm sure this behavior would bother me, too. My : brain knows that cats aren't human, but of course you want the best for your : cats, and as a human it's hard to consider that being submissive and getting : beat on is the best for your cat. Exactly my problem. : Maybe it would help if you considered how much it would "help" the situation : if you told a scrawny, nervous kid in high school to defend themselves. It : could even make some situations worse. I was the scrawny kid in high school and I found that standing up and defending myself was the best thing for me to do in the long run. I got beat up the first few times I did but that was happening anyhow. SignatureKeep working millions on welfare depend on you ------------------- fwp@deepthought.com > : It is hurting you FOR the "beta" kitten but it does not hurt him. Cats > : establish domination and submission as a natural thing--there is no [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > position and I supose it's better then having two alpha males fighting for > dominence<SP?>. Frank, the reason I know this is because I have a little cat that used to be feral, and she still runs from us even though she LOVES to be petted once we catch her, and she even seeks out affection. It is like the running is a deeply ingrained reflex, from when she was a wild kitten. SO: my husband got tired of it and started chasing her down when she ran. NOT a good idea! But after maybe three times, all he had todo was take a step like he was going to chase her, and she would pop up onto the bed crouching low, meowing piteously, doing the whole submissive thing. Then they have a total love fest, with her purring up a storm and lipping her catnip toys, preening for him, doing elevator butt, giving him the fluttery girl kitty eyes and everything. It really bothered me that he chased her because I knew it was wrong. Someone here pointed out that SHE is not uncomfortable, *I* just am, that she is a cat and cats have hierarchies like dominance and submissiveness that make them MORE, not LESS comfortable. So I relaxed and now when I am reading in bed and my husband comes up, she gets excited and does "happy tail," but as soon as he hits the door she runs under the bed like he is going to kill her, then pops up on the bed when he fakes a lunge, and they have this gigantic love fest. Every night! She loves it. (Disclaimer: I do not recommend chasing cats!) : > : It is hurting you FOR the "beta" kitten but it does not hurt him. Cats : > : establish domination and submission as a natural thing--there is no [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] : > position and I supose it's better then having two alpha males fighting for : > dominence<SP?>. Reading the responses I've gotten I see that I should do what I've done with pet cats since I was a child and let the cats settle things for themselves. The howling, spitting and hissing aside they're not hurting each other and for the most part get along well. Looking at the way the two get along I've noticed that when playing they take turns chasing each other and the two hissing fits pitched by the submissive kitten resulted when the dominant one went to him and started licking him. He didn't care for it and pitched a fit. The submissive one also used to be feral. He was rescued from a rail yard when he was about 5 weeks old. This was after his siblings and mother died a week or two earlier. His survival was the result of him cashing in a couple of his nine lives and I'm convinced his ability to hide had a lot to do with it. When I got him he ran off and hid and I didn't see him for a week!! It took a lot of work and effort to get him to come out and get him to let me anywhere near him. I think I'm going to sit back and be glad that he managed to survive all that he's been through and not worry about how he gets along with the other cat. In fact as I was typing this Tmax (the name of the submissive one) got annoyed at Dmax(the name of the domanint<SP?> one) and got up and started to beat on him (this is the first time I've heard him hollar and hiss). If nothing else it proves that he's capable of defending himself if and when he wants to. : Frank, the reason I know this is because I have a little cat that : used to be feral, and she still runs from us even though she LOVES [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] : is a cat and cats have hierarchies like dominance and submissiveness : that make them MORE, not LESS comfortable. : So I relaxed and now when I am reading in bed and my husband : comes up, she gets excited and does "happy tail," but as soon as he : hits the door she runs under the bed like he is going to kill her, then : pops up on the bed when he fakes a lunge, and they have this gigantic : love fest. Every night! She loves it. (Disclaimer: I do not recommend : chasing cats!) I think chasing cats is alright if it's done during play. The last time I had an "only" kitten we used to play "chase". I would chase after him and then we would turn around and he would chase me. He loved the game and enjoyed getting chased as much as doing the chasing. Of course that was always done during playtime and I agree with you about chasing a cat unless it's done as play or to throw a good scare into it as a form of disipline and then a couple of "loud" steps in their direction is all that's needed. SignatureKeep working millions on welfare depend on you ------------------- fwp@deepthought.com > I think I'm going to sit back and be glad that he managed to survive all that > he's been through and not worry about how he gets along with the other cat. Good, I think that is the right thing to do. But it is hard to think like a cat! I also need to be reminded about applying human attributes to them. > In fact as I was typing this Tmax (the name of the submissive one) got > annoyed at Dmax(the name of the domanint<SP?> one) and got up and started to > beat on him (this is the first time I've heard him hollar and hiss). If > nothing else it proves that he's capable of defending himself if and when > he wants to. They might go back and forth. It sounds like they like one another. > I think chasing cats is alright if it's done during play. The last time > I had an "only" kitten we used to play "chase". I would chase after him [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > it's done as play or to throw a good scare into it as a form of disipline and > then a couple of "loud" steps in their direction is all that's needed. I could tell she was never really scared of him by the way she decided to pop up on the bed and be petted. It was like a game for her, I think. Plus, she is so wiry and strong she could get away and hide easily. My Cheeky is really smart. My first thought was that she just really hated him chasing her down and dragging her out to pet her so she adopted the submissive thing in order to skip the part she hated and get right to the petting. I just kind of wish "here kitty kitty" would work! : > I think I'm going to sit back and be glad that he managed to survive all : that : > he's been through and not worry about how he gets along with the other : cat. : Good, I think that is the right thing to do. But it is hard to think like a : cat! I also need to : be reminded about applying human attributes to them. : > In fact as I was typing this Tmax (the name of the submissive one) got : > annoyed at Dmax(the name of the domanint<SP?> one) and got up and started : to : > beat on him (this is the first time I've heard him hollar and hiss). If : > nothing else it proves that he's capable of defending himself if and when : > he wants to. : They might go back and forth. It sounds like they like one another. : > I think chasing cats is alright if it's done during play. The last time : > I had an "only" kitten we used to play "chase". I would chase after him [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] : and : > then a couple of "loud" steps in their direction is all that's needed. : I could tell she was never really scared of him by the way she decided to : pop up on the bed and be petted. It was like a game for her, I think. Plus, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] : to skip the part she hated and get right to the petting. I just kind of wish : "here kitty kitty" would work! I think they ignore the "here kitty kitty" thing out of pride and pricipal. I had one cat once that loved to be pet and would meow for it. However to keep his pride he would never come to me to be pet. I would have to go to him and then he would act like he was doing me a favor by letting me pet him!! SignatureKeep working millions on welfare depend on you ------------------- fwp@deepthought.com > I think they ignore the "here kitty kitty" thing out of pride and pricipal. > I had one cat once that loved to be pet and would meow for it. However to keep > his pride he would never come to me to be pet. I would have to go to him and then > he would act like he was doing me a favor by letting me pet him!! They do have pride. If you have ever laughed at a full grown cat and gotten the cold shoulder (back turned to you while he grooms) you know that. Is this the formerly feral one that does this? Cheeks comes to me for petting every morning, sometimes several times a morning, while I am still in bed. She used to tiptoe around me, starting at the pillow where she sleeps by my head, meowing questioningly as she made the long trip all the way down around my back, around my feet and up to my head to the side I was facing. She would then pause and see if I was awake. If I was, she would stretch out at length and cuddle against me while I petted her. Now that she is sure I am all hers she just marches right over me ad plops down by my face! If I don't pet her right away she finds my hand and head butts and rubs her face on it! YET--she runs from us whenever we approach. Gotta love them. : > I think they ignore the "here kitty kitty" thing out of pride and : pricipal. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] : and then : > he would act like he was doing me a favor by letting me pet him!! : They do have pride. If you have ever laughed at a full grown : cat and gotten the cold shoulder (back turned to you while : he grooms) you know that. Is this the formerly feral one that does this? I have and they don't like it. :-) The one that made me go to him to pet him even after begging for it died last year from a pnemonia he got as a result of FIV. I still miss him. The formerly feral (He still thinks he's an outdoor and wild cat) follows me around and when I'm watching tv or working on my computer lays at my feet. At night when I sleep he sleeps on my pillow with me. The one from the shelter lives to be picked up and held. A couple of weeks after I got him he was at the vet getting his shots and a checkup and while the vet was waiting for the therometer to register he gave him his shot and went to listen to his heart and lungs. He couldn't because he was purring to loud and he couldn't hear. The vet even commented that, that's never happened to him before!! : Cheeks comes to me for petting every morning, sometimes several times : a morning, while I am still in bed. She used to tiptoe around me, starting [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] : she finds my hand and head butts and rubs her face on it! YET--she runs : from us whenever we approach. Gotta love them. SignatureKeep working millions on welfare depend on you ------------------- fwp@deepthought.com
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