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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / January 2005In heat at ~4 months old
Well, my Scarlett seems to be in heat. She's aggitating Shamrock (neutered male, neutered 3 years ago) and doing the rolling on the floor thing and her vagina looks swollen (ok, I don't know, but I can see it now and I used to not even know where it is on a female cat). I've had to postpone 2 spay surgeries now due to her not doing well when the appt came up, so now it looks like we're going through a heat. Some (including the vet) say they are probably older than I was told, but their first pictures were taken the week of Oct 15 and they clearly look like month old, or maybe up to 6 weeks at that time, making them now at most 4 months old. What do you think? How unusual is it for a 4 month old female to be in heat for the first time? Also, vet now wants to wait a month before spaying her. I'm going to call back tomorrow and insist on sooner, otherwise I'm going to have a houseful of very stressed out kitties. Shamrock is not happy and has tried to mount her repeatedly. http://tinyurl.com/3jx97 (photos 1-6 taken the week of Oct 15)  SignatureCheryl That's why we spay most of our kittens before they go out to their new home. Find a vet who will spay her now, unless there are actual health concerns (and not her age). The youngest we've seen a kitten in heat was 3 months, soon after her adoption. At that time, we weren't insisting on "early" spay, but changed our mind when the owner's vet refused to spay. The owner finally took the poor kitten to our vet to be done. Generally, a kitten comes into heat promptly at 6 months, usually the day before the spay appointment. "Early" sterilization has been in practice for a couple of decades now in this country. Follow-up studies have revealed no drawbacks. Sharon Talbert Friends of Campus Cats > Well, my Scarlett seems to be in heat. She's aggitating Shamrock > (neutered male, neutered 3 years ago) and doing the rolling on the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > http://tinyurl.com/3jx97 > (photos 1-6 taken the week of Oct 15) On Tue 28 Dec 2004 07:56:45p, Sharon Talbert wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav (news:Pine.A41.4.61b.0412281649360.154620@homer05.u.washington.edu) > That's why we spay most of our kittens before they go out to > their new home. Find a vet who will spay her now, unless there [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > decades now in this country. Follow-up studies have revealed no > drawbacks. Thanks Sharon. Yup, I'm a believer in early age neuter, and planned to have her done by now. A bit over a week ago she had what looked like a mild seizure and that made us postpone her last appt, but her brother got done then any way. Thank goodness. I hope I don't have to have another vet do it. I like our vet, and I've never had to have a cat neutered so I didn't know what her beliefs are until now. A month! I'm stunned! We'll all be insane by then! lol I'm going to call her back tomorrow and insist since Scarlett is doing much better and her eyes are all clear, no more seizure episodes, and she's gaining weight again. SignatureCheryl Hi Cheryl, I don't know how much cats are like rabbits in the neutering category, but male rabbits can impregnate a female for a few weeks after the neuter. They are not producing any more sperm, but there are some swimmers left in the tubing for awhile. Rhonda > Thanks Sharon. Yup, I'm a believer in early age neuter, and planned > to have her done by now. A bit over a week ago she had what looked > like a mild seizure and that made us postpone her last appt, but > her brother got done then any way. > Hi Cheryl, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Rhonda I was thinking about that, too - in that after my male cat was neutered, his pee continued to stink for another 3? weeks. So, it obviously takes a while for all of that testosterone to finally leave the system. Cathy > > Thanks Sharon. Yup, I'm a believer in early age neuter, and planned > > to have her done by now. A bit over a week ago she had what looked > > like a mild seizure and that made us postpone her last appt, but > > her brother got done then any way. >> Hi Cheryl, >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Cathy My mom has a 2+ y.o. male who is intact (he does not go out and there is only another neutered male in the house. She is afraid to get him fixed partly because she is afraid they will find an ID chip (they won't, he was quite young when she found him and she put up posters everywhere and walked around the neighborhood asking about him and no one knew him) and partly because her cat Amigo died about the time she should have gotten Petrus fixed and I think she is afraid something will happen. Will get her there eventually) but he does not smell "tomish". He is a littlish cat, but VERY long legged and skinny (naturally so) has DEFINITELY some kind of oriental in him. His body type is like the skinny orientals, but his face is pretty and not super skinny. He probably doesn't weigh more than 8 or 9 lbs but it is all sinewy muscle. He climbs like a monkey and his toes I call monkey toes because they are so long. He can walk across the shower curtain rod. He scales the bathroom cupboard like a CGI figure. It's really astounding. Here is a pic: "http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/kchuplis/detail?.dir=f77a&.dnm=aaeb.jpg&.src= ph" "http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/kchuplis/detail?.dir=298a&.dnm=4b21.jpg&.src= ph" You can see how loooong his front toes are. They look like fingers. anyhoo. Petrus the wonder cat just is not smelly nor does he seem to have any marking habits. He is SUPER lovey dovey with everyone and would be lost without his pal Tycho. "http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/kchuplis/detail?.dir=298a&.dnm=d244.jpg&.src= ph" Are orientals not as virile as other breeds or take longer to mature? (His equipment LOOKS plenty mature.) > Here > is a pic: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > "http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/kchuplis/detail?.dir=298a&.dnm=4b2 > 1.jpg&.src= ph" He's just gorgeous! SignatureCheryl > don't know how much cats are like rabbits in the neutering > category, > but male rabbits can impregnate a female for a few weeks after > the neuter. They are not producing any more sperm, but there are > some swimmers left in the tubing for awhile. I asked the vet tech about that and she said it wasn't possible. I know I've read the same things. I have to wonder how true it is, or which is right. In any case, I'm not going to wait it out a month before her spay. SignatureCheryl Hi Cheryl, Glad you're not waiting. I used to volunteer for a rabbit rescue group, and many rabbits were surrendered because vets "forgot" to tell the rabbit-owners to keep the male separated for a month after neuter surgery. Hope all goes well with her surgery. She's such an early bloomer, she'll probably want to borrow the car keys soon. Rhonda >> don't know how much cats are like rabbits in the neutering >> category, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > which is right. In any case, I'm not going to wait it out a month > before her spay. > Hope all goes well with her surgery. She's such an early > bloomer, she'll > probably want to borrow the car keys soon. LOL Thanks. :) SignatureCheryl > On Tue 28 Dec 2004 07:56:45p, Sharon Talbert wrote in > rec.pets.cats.health+behav [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > much better and her eyes are all clear, no more seizure episodes, > and she's gaining weight again. Cheryl, I almost wonder if that episode is somehow related with going into heat! > Cheryl, I almost wonder if that episode is somehow related with > going into heat! Karen, that thought crossed my mind, too. But it wouldn't explain the high WBC. The weirdness might be attributed to onset of heat, but I've never seen a cat in heat before so who knows. Like so many have said, though, when you see it you know. Its very obvious. Ugh. SignatureCheryl We have only once held off spaying a kitten well before 6 months due to health concerns. That was Tipsy, our cerbebellar hypoplasia cat. In her case, I was the anxious one, worrying how her little brain would process the anesthesia. I made her appointment when she was about 6 months old (it was the dead of winter, by the way), and naturally she came into heat the day. Her best friend at the time was a huge recently retired tom who had been taken from the field. This big guy loved Tipsy and not only hung out with her, laying on his stomach rolling balls her way so she could flail them back, he fiercely protected her. He was not prepared to satisfy her newfound urges, however. Tipsy did come through the anesthesia, but not all that well. It took her several days to process the stuff, even though our vet used the lightest possible dose of the safest stuff on the market. Poor Tipsy spent her recuperation in a cage in the middle of the living room, looking like a bobble doll propped in a pile of pillows. All this rambling is just because I am a bit concerned for your little girl. Listen to your vet, if he/she has serious concerns. Sharon Talbert Campus Cats > All this rambling is just because I am a bit concerned for your > little girl. Listen to your vet, if he/she has serious > concerns. I'm glad Tipsy came out of it ok in the end! I've read some of your articles about her, and she sounds very special. I talked to the vets office today, and while somewhat concerned since we don't know what caused her episode, she'll spay her on Tuesday. Since its never recurred, it could have been a freak thing but we'll be watching out for her. I'm afraid that the stress of heats would be worse on her if we wait a month. She's had a hard time with possible (probable) herpes symptoms since before I adopted her. But she is healthy right now, so here is our window. I appreciate your (and everyones!) input. I was just amazed to see her go into heat. If you could see how small she is, it just doesn't seem possible that her little body would be ready to be a momcat. If she were still in the wild, I'd imagine she wouldn't carry kittens full term and live. Or the kittens wouldn't live. SignatureCheryl > I appreciate your (and everyones!) input. I was just amazed to see > her go into heat. If you could see how small she is, it just > doesn't seem possible that her little body would be ready to be a > momcat. If she were still in the wild, I'd imagine she wouldn't > carry kittens full term and live. Or the kittens wouldn't live. Such was the case w/ the pregnant, feral kitten that my sister adopted; she miscarried. Probably a combo of malnourishment as a feral, along with her tiny size/being very young. Cathy Tipsy is more than 10 years old now and still going strong (just had her annual exam). The rescue (feral) kitten who came into a full roaring heat at 3 months was also missing a kidney. She came from an unfed momcat whose litter was starving in the womb. A kitten can be infected with herpes at birth as well; we took on another hardluck momcat with three kittens, one completely blind from herpes, one close to blind and a third only slightly affected. The momcat had no symptoms and had raised her kittens separately from the rest of the colony, so we can only assume she is a carrier. (All but one kitten survived, by the way, and either found a home or live with us.) Ferals sometimes come with genetic or medical problems. No worse than purebreds in that respect... Sharon Talbert Friends of Campus Cats >> All this rambling is just because I am a bit concerned for your >> little girl. Listen to your vet, if he/she has serious [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > momcat. If she were still in the wild, I'd imagine she wouldn't > carry kittens full term and live. Or the kittens wouldn't live. >Ferals sometimes come with genetic or medical problems. No worse than >purebreds in that respect... *nod* Hakaisha, my little kitten-off-the-street, has grade four luxated patellas. Was diagnosed as such at 5 months of age, and was probably born that way (we weren't able to see it until he put on some weight). He's getting surgery when his growth plates close. Ironically, my purebreds are completely genetically healthy. Orchid See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage Want a Purebred Cat? Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid "Orchid" <neko@ascendancy.net> wrote : > Ironically, my purebreds are completely genetically healthy. How on earth can you possibly know this? >"Orchid" <neko@ascendancy.net> wrote : > >> Ironically, my purebreds are completely genetically healthy. > >How on earth can you possibly know this? Good point. As of yet, they have displayed no genetic problems and have been tested for several (on the breeder's dime because she wants to have complete histories for every cat she's put out there). It is entirely possible that they may have something lurking -- we'll find out if they do. I should have said 'Ironically, my purebreds have had no symptoms of any genetic health problems". Orchid See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage Want a Purebred Cat? Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid > >"Orchid" <neko@ascendancy.net> wrote : > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I should have said 'Ironically, my purebreds have had no > symptoms of any genetic health problems". Well, I am glad your kitties are mostly healthy and hope they stay that way. Hope little H comes through okay. He is lucky to have you. >Well, I am glad your kitties are mostly healthy and hope they >stay that way. Hope little H comes through okay. He is lucky to >have you. The Adequan his vet has him on is doing *wonders*. He gets Adequan shots every 5 days and Cosequin once a day -- and he's running and playing like a pretty normal kitten. He still lies down a lot, but he's doing scads better than he had been. He goes for the big snip next Wednesday, as he's *finally* big enough weight-wise to do the surgery. It's making me very hopeful that he'll have a normal life post-orthopedic surgery in July. Though he is bow-legged and always will be -- the pressure that the tendons are exerting on his little bones are making them grow somewhat curved. Orchid See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage Want a Purebred Cat? Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid Sharon, My boyfriend and I recently took in a blind kitten from the colony in our complex. The opthamologist we took her to said it was probably from herpes infection inutero. Any advice on how to deal with her, and what other problems we may encounter as a result? No one we personally know has experience with this. Thanks. PS: My boyfriend posted about her last week. It's under "Blind Kitten Advice" if you want to read more about our little special needs girl. Marianne mairgriffin@yahoo.com > That's why we spay most of our kittens before they go out to their new > home. Find a vet who will spay her now, unless there are actual health [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >> http://tinyurl.com/3jx97 >> (photos 1-6 taken the week of Oct 15) Nature can be cruel! MLB !. On Tue 28 Dec 2004 08:29:07p, mlbriggs wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav (news:pan.2004.12.29.01.29.04.210443 @nospam.com): > Nature can be cruel! MLB For sure! SignatureCheryl On Tue 28 Dec 2004 07:56:45p, Sharon Talbert wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav (news:Pine.A41.4.61b.0412281649360.154620@homer05.u.washington.edu) > The youngest we've seen a kitten in heat was 3 months, soon > after her adoption. At that time, we weren't insisting on > "early" spay, but changed our mind when the owner's vet refused > to spay. The owner finally took the poor kitten to our vet to > be done. Generally, a kitten comes into heat promptly at 6 > months, usually the day before the spay appointment. Sharon, thanks for your followups. I just wanted to let you know that she came through fine, and the vet didn't even keep her overnight like they said they typically do for females. She slept in a big travel dog kennel all night in my bedroom but she was fine. I even got her to eat some baby food from a spoon though the vet said not to feed her until morning. She's a very scrawny girl, and by morning it would have been 36 hours or so since eating. I realize why they say not to feed her (nausea from anesthesia) but I gave her only small amounts at a time. Her incision is healing nicely (the vet used laser) and she's filling back out. Her eyes became gunky again but I expected that given her history of it. Just keeping them clean and applying the ointment again. Now, if I can only get her brother past his diarrhea that started up after his last shots! Poor guys. They can't get a break. SignatureCheryl > they >clearly look like month old, or maybe up to 6 weeks at that time, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >a houseful of very stressed out kitties. Shamrock is not happy and >has tried to mount her repeatedly. They look about 6-7 weeks in those pics. Female cats can go in heat at 5 months of age. I'd get her spayed sooner. She may stay in heat until she gets spayed or "gets some." She will drive you nuts howling all night long. You won't get any heat. Spaying while in heat might cost a little more because her female organs may be swollen. My Mimi was in heat for months as she was FLV+. I finally found a vet who would spay her. We finally got some sleep and she got some rest too. > They look about 6-7 weeks in those pics. Female cats can go in > heat at 5 months of age. I'd get her spayed sooner. She may stay [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I finally found a vet who would spay her. We finally got some > sleep and she got some rest too. I think we're on day one, so I hope we can nip this in the bud and maybe get an appt this week. She's much healthier now than she was for the last 2 appts that we had to cancel. SignatureCheryl >> They look about 6-7 weeks in those pics. Female cats can go in >> heat at 5 months of age. I'd get her spayed sooner. She may [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > and maybe get an appt this week. She's much healthier now than > she was for the last 2 appts that we had to cancel. PS - I just thought that ~4 monthsish was too young. Good to see that it does happen, and that even if their ages were determined young due to malnutrition, that they are still only about 4-1/2 months rather than much older than that. I think even Rhett was becoming sexually mature before his neuter - a week before the surgery I was rubbing his tummy while he was laying on his back and his little pee pee popped out. Yikes. SignatureCheryl > Well, my Scarlett seems to be in heat. She's aggitating Shamrock > (neutered male, neutered 3 years ago) and doing the rolling on the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > making them now at most 4 months old. What do you think? How unusual > is it for a 4 month old female to be in heat for the first time? I think it's entirely possible. One of the feral kittens my sister adopted was probably only 4 months old (as guesstimated by the vet) , yet was pregnant when she adopted her. Cathy > Also, vet now wants to wait a month before spaying her. I'm going to > call back tomorrow and insist on sooner, otherwise I'm going to have [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > http://tinyurl.com/3jx97 > (photos 1-6 taken the week of Oct 15) My kitten was only 4 months old when she went into heat. The vet kept her over night, and when I brought her home the next day , she went outside and started chasing bugs. It was like she had never had an operation. >Well, my Scarlett seems to be in heat. She's aggitating Shamrock >(neutered male, neutered 3 years ago) and doing the rolling on the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >http://tinyurl.com/3jx97 >(photos 1-6 taken the week of Oct 15)
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