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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / December 2004

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Tapzole question

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Paul M. Cook - 26 Dec 2004 18:05 GMT
As many know my cat Buddy is hyperthyroid and on Tapazole.  He was doing
splendidly up until 6 weeks ago.  Now he is on 15mg twice a day and he is
still slowly declining.  I understand this is not unusual and that some cats
need even higher doses.

But what bugs me is he was doing splendidly until they switched him to the
generic.  Literally the change happened at that time.  Buddy goes in for
blood work tomorrow so I will push the vet on this.  I just was hoping
others may have some experiences to share.  I have had one occasion where I
felt a generic was not as potent as the name brand.  So I am wondering if
this possibly may be the case here.

Paul
Nomen Nescio - 26 Dec 2004 18:40 GMT
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

From: "Paul M. Cook" <pmcook@gte.net>

>As many know my cat Buddy is hyperthyroid and on Tapazole.  He was doing
>splendidly up until 6 weeks ago.  Now he is on 15mg twice a day and he is
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>Paul

I have 2 thoughts on this:

1) That seems like a fairly high dose. I've found that if you are going
to err in the dosage, it's MUCH better to err on the low side. But the
blood work should tell you where things stand.

2) as far as the generic goes, there should be no difference. That being
said, us airplane pilots have an old saying....."If you flip a switch and
something bad happens......flip it back".
Paul M. Cook - 26 Dec 2004 18:43 GMT
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> to err in the dosage, it's MUCH better to err on the low side. But the
> blood work should tell you where things stand.

Whoops!  These are 5 mg tablets - not 10 so his dosage is 7.5 mg twice a
day.

Paul
Nomen Nescio - 27 Dec 2004 04:50 GMT
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From: "Paul M. Cook" <pmcook@gte.net>

>Whoops!  These are 5 mg tablets - not 10 so his dosage is 7.5 mg twice a
>day.
>
>Paul

That sounds a lot more reasonable, but higher than I'm used to.
I've had two cats on Tapazole and they both stabilized on 1/2 pill (2.5mg)
twice daily. One of my cats spent 8 years taking that dose.
I've also had an "incident" with a vet where I got a vial of Tapazole and
the pills looked different, similar...but different. I checked the markings
in my PDR (if you don't have one, I strongly suggest buying one) and
could not find the markings listed for Tapazole or any other drug, for that
matter. I called the vet's office and was told "yes", it was the "tapazole"
but from a different manufacturer. I still wasn't comfortable with that so
I took the pills to the vet's and told them I wanted to see the lot that they
came from. Long story short the response was "Oops, those aren't the right
pills". When I asked what they were (several times) the only answer I could
get was "something different". As a result of that, I made 2 changes in
medicating my cats.

1) I took the "girls" to a different vet.
2) I would only buy the branded Tapazole from a pharmacy and only in
sealed manufacturers bottles.

So be REAL careful about unknown "generics". Screwups can occur.
BTW... Costco pharmacies sold the Tapazole at half the price of
all the other pharmacies in my area and less expensive than getting
it from the vet.

I'll never know what medication I almost gave to one of my cats, but
I'm sure glad that I pushed enough to find out that it was NOT
Tapazole.

Best of luck
PawsForThought - 27 Dec 2004 13:47 GMT
>From: Nomen Nescio Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]

>hen I asked what they were (several times) the only answer I could
>get was "something different". As a result of that, I made 2 changes in
>medicating my cats.

Wow, that's terrible.  Good thing you were so thorough in finding out what was
given to your cats.
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Nomen Nescio - 28 Dec 2004 04:50 GMT
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From: darnit7@aol.comnolitter (PawsForThought)

>Wow, that's terrible.  Good thing you were so thorough in finding out what was
>given to your cats.

It scared the HELL out of me. Especially when I realized how close I came
to giving her the wrong meds. I almost trusted the phone call as reassurance
that the pills were Tapazole. I actually took the pill out of the vial and was about
to give a half to her then something stopped me. I just had a bad feeling about
it.
If I remember correctly, I downed three quick shots of Tequila to try and stop
my hands from shaking when I got back from the vet's (and I am neither a "drinker"
nor a particularly nervous person.)
Mathew Kagis - 28 Dec 2004 09:37 GMT
<snip the preqil>

> 1) I took the "girls" to a different vet.
> 2) I would only buy the branded Tapazole from a pharmacy and only in
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Best of luck

Wow! If your cat had been a human, you would have had a lawsuit that would
have made you rich.
  Sounds like you have more than a passing knowledge of
medicine/pharmesuticals... Are you in the medical profession?
Signature

Mathew
Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat
En Vino Veritas

Nomen Nescio - 29 Dec 2004 07:20 GMT
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From: "Mathew Kagis" <winesnob@telus.net>

>Wow! If your cat had been a human, you would have had a lawsuit that would
>have made you rich.

Honestly, there is no amount of money that I would have considered sufficient
compensation if I had hurt one of my cats with the wrong medication. If I had found
out that I had given my cat some harmful meds, the only compensation
would have involved a baseball bat.
But you've hit a real sore spot with me, the legal concept of pets as "property".
In this, and most States, your car and your cat have roughly the same status.
My cats have never been "property", they are family. Someone damages my
car, I'll be happy to see them charged with vandalism and pay damages.
Someone hurts my cat, they better leave the country. And even then, they
better hide REAL good. 'Cause if I found them....well.....I wouldn't be calling
the police.

>   Sounds like you have more than a passing knowledge of
>medicine/pharmesuticals... Are you in the medical profession?

Nope. Just an old, bonehead, mechanical engineer (retired).
Outside of research on the Internet, and advice from this fine group, I have
two books that I reference for cat care information.
One is the PDR (Physicians Desk Reference). That's where I looked to
find out that none of the markings on the mystery pills matched the markings
that should have been on Tapazole or the generic versions.
The other is the "Cornell Book Of Cats". It's a great reference for cat health
issues. Technical enough to explain medical conditions, but clear enough so
one does not have to be a vet to understand it.
I think both books should be on the bookshelf of anyone who has chosen to
spend their life in servitude to cats.
drizzt@sgi.net - 28 Dec 2004 21:17 GMT
>Costco pharmacies sold the Tapazole at half the price of
>all the other pharmacies in my area and less expensive than getting
>it from the vet.

Would you mind sharing what Costco charges for it? I'm paying $36 for
60 of the 10 mg and wonder if it's worth driving the 35 miles to
Costco. I've always kinda wanted to try out Costco anyway and this
would be a good excuse:-)

--
Caren
Nomen Nescio - 29 Dec 2004 06:20 GMT
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From: drizzt@sgi.net

>Would you mind sharing what Costco charges for it? I'm paying $36 for
>60 of the 10 mg and wonder if it's worth driving the 35 miles to
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>--
>Caren

That actually sounds like a pretty good price for branded Tapazole.
I was buying the 5 mg pills in sealed bottles of 100 and I think I was
paying about $28 for a bottle (5 years ago). The vet wanted $45 and
local pharmacies charged over $50.
It might be worth calling the Costco pharmacy and asking for a price.
Be sure to tell them that it's for a cat. And, BTW, Costco does not
require a membership to buy from the pharmacy.
I like shopping at Costco, the prices are hard to beat. And if you like
to buy canned goods by the dozen, paper towels by the bale, and
laundry detergent by the drum, you'll probably find it well worth the trip.
They also have the best price for a case of Dom Perignon. :-)
Phil P. - 27 Dec 2004 06:21 GMT
> Whoops!  These are 5 mg tablets - not 10 so his dosage is 7.5 mg twice a
> day.

15 mg/day is a little higher than "usual".  If the dose had to be increased
after the switch -- my guess is the generic brand isn't as potent.  I don't
believe generic brands are always identical to name brands.  Some brand
manufacturers also distribute their name brand under the generic name to get
a piece of the generic market, too. So, sometimes, you get lucky.

Sometimes its necessary to buy generic brands, but Tapazole is cheap enough
to go for the real thing.  I'd switch back to Tapazole then recheck his T4
levels in two weeks.

Good luck.

Phil
Mimi Forsyth - 26 Dec 2004 20:50 GMT
<< as far as the generic goes >>

pharmacists often get a kickback for offering the generic

www.mimiforsyth.com
Cathy Friedmann - 26 Dec 2004 22:44 GMT
> << as far as the generic goes >>
>
> pharmacists often get a kickback for offering the generic

AFAIK, if "DAW" is checked on the prescription, the name brand *has* to be
given; if not, the generic has to be dispensed - or at the minimum at least
offered.  IOW, I don't think the pharmacists have much say in the matter.
Otoh, this may well be a state-by-state deal - the laws pertaining to how
prescriptions are dispensed.

Then again, we were mostly talking about a medication that I assume was
dispensed at the vets' office - hyperthyroidism being common in cats
(dogs??), not at the (human) pharmacy.  Although I realize that some meds
for pets need to be obtained there when the vet doesn't carry them; BTDT.

Cathy
Cathy Friedmann - 26 Dec 2004 19:26 GMT
> As many know my cat Buddy is hyperthyroid and on Tapazole.  He was doing
> splendidly up until 6 weeks ago.  Now he is on 15mg twice a day and he is
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Paul

Hmmm... I take the generic - methimazole - myself, & have noticed no
problem.  Otoh, if there was a definitive decline exactly when the switch
was made in Buddy's case, I would ask for his med to be switched back to the
brand name Tapazole & see if that makes a difference; may be an individual
thing.

Maybe it's me - & I have not looked this up lately, but 30 mg/day seems like
a high dosage.  Could something else possibly be going on, that's
interacting w/ his thyroid hormones?  Will his bloodwork be a full panel,
not just thyroid tests?

Cathy
Paul M. Cook - 26 Dec 2004 19:28 GMT
> > As many know my cat Buddy is hyperthyroid and on Tapazole.  He was doing
> > splendidly up until 6 weeks ago.  Now he is on 15mg twice a day and he is
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> interacting w/ his thyroid hormones?  Will his bloodwork be a full panel,
> not just thyroid tests?

I was mistaken about the dosage.  He gets a pill and a half twice a day.
For some reason I thought they were 10 mg.

Yes, his blood work is a full panel, including liver enzymes.  His thyroid
level just keeps climbing.  It went up to 15 just before they bumped his
dosage.  And it was about a week before that that he was switched to the
generics.

Paul
Barb - 27 Dec 2004 16:06 GMT
My Pepper gets 5mg per day of Tapazole.  They apparently discontinued the
brand she was on and we couldn't locate it anywhere.  The new brand caused
her to throw up volumes of blood.  After many tests which ruled out
everything I said I would not give her the new brand of Tapazole.  My vet
suggested Road Runner, a mail order pharmaceutical and I bought capsules of
Tapazole from them.  She has been on that now for many weeks with no
problem.

--
Barb
Of course I don't look busy,
I did it right the first time.
 
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