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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / December 2004Half Siamese, Half Himalayan=?
Hi everyone, I just found out that my dearly departed, 19 1/2 year old 'baby child' named Blue, was actually a half Siamese and half Himalayan. Blue's been 'gone' exactly one month ago, today-Dec.20th-04. So what exactly did this bloodline make him/Blue? A mix breed? Or, is there an actual name for a breed like this? As an aside: For all those who kindly took the time to respond to my last several posts, I have just* gotten a white medium-haired kitten who I've named "Dove". He has one blue eye and one hazel eye. Although he's not really super laid-back, he is* relatively calm and fairly gentle. Dove also can simply 'be' with me in the same room without constantly* running around and He can also just observe me. He makes eye contact with me when I speak with him, and already seems to know my voice/ his name..? So, I'm reeeally happy to announce him as my new 'baby' addition. ML mlcarey1@yahoo.com Congratulations on your new baby. Blue was a mixed breed. I'm sure Dove will be a beauty, too. Gail > Hi everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > mlcarey1@yahoo.com > Hi everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > mlcarey1@yahoo.com From what I have read about cat genetics, the Himmie decended originally from the Siamese, so you could rightfully call your beloved a Siamese offspring. IMHO Siamese are wonderful cats. Congrats on your new babycat. MLB > > Hi everyone, > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > > > mlcarey1@yahoo.com > From what I have read about cat genetics, the Himmie decended originally > from the Siamese, so you could rightfully call your beloved a Siamese > offspring. IMHO Siamese are wonderful cats. > > Congrats on your new babycat. MLB **Thanks MLB, I really wonder why Siamese and Himalayan's are NOT bred? To me, this is a no brainer. Blue was such a sweet cat and so beautiful ( he was apricot flame point), inside and out. He neeever had any behaval problems / issues. Would come if I whistled, was extremely obedient and loyal. Extremly docile and gentle. Good God, I can't even begin to name all the excellent charator traits that he had. Needlesstosay, I would get another fifty-fifty-(Siamese and Himalayan breed of cat) in a heart-beat if* I knew where they were available, And if I knew about the parent/cats' personality. Honestly, IMO, this 'mix' should* be a *new* breed, no doubt in my mind. And I can't believe that if, and since, the 'Persian' breed is so readily available ( and I personally would NOT want a Persian), then why* in the world isn't the Siamese and Himalayan 'Mixed blend' available??! Comments and suggestions are welcome. ML > I really wonder why Siamese and Himalayan's are NOT bred? To me, this is a > no brainer. Blue was such a sweet cat and so beautiful ( he was apricot [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > world isn't the Siamese and Himalayan 'Mixed blend' available??! Comments > and suggestions are welcome. I'm sure that your Blue was all these things and more, but he's one data point. Even if you did get another siamese/himalayan, there's no guarantee the cat would have all of the traits you loved about Blue. It wouldn't be fair to the new cat, either, to expect it to behave a certain way just because another cat did. Half the fun of a pet or child is watching them develop their own unique personalities! Congrats on Dove!  Signaturemonique, who is sometimes allowed to pet Oscar, a grey^H^H^H^Hblue-cream DLH with an attitude! > > I really wonder why Siamese and Himalayan's are NOT bred? To me, this is a > > no brainer. Blue was such a sweet cat and so beautiful ( he was apricot [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > And I can't believe that if, and since, the 'Persian' breed is so readily > > available ( and I personally would NOT want a Persian), then why* in the world isn't the Siamese and Himalayan 'Mixed blend' available??! Comments and suggestions are welcome. > I'm sure that your Blue was all these things and more, but he's one data > point. Even if you did get another siamese/himalayan, there's no guarantee [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Congrats on Dove! **Thank you, Monique. And yes, Dove is "Ma boy!" ;-). I was thinking along the lines that everything I've read regarding Himalayan's say that they are known for being extremely docile and gentle ( save for the occasional anomalies and inbreds). Siamese are known for being very loyal and smart. To me this combo = Excellence. So why not breed for those not so common and excellent traits... Hummm.. I think I've had a light bulb moment :-). I have just* discovered my new occupation...Now, if I can jussst find the right people that haven't* (oh, this is a Biggie) already spayed their great & beautiful Siamese's and Himalayans. I digress. ML > So why not breed for those not so common and excellent traits... Hummm.. I > think I've had a light bulb moment :-). I have just* discovered my new > occupation...Now, if I can jussst find the right people that haven't* (oh, > this is a Biggie) already spayed their great & beautiful Siamese's and > Himalayans. > I digress. Ugh!! Just what we need... someone who has no idea what the F they are doing to start breeding cats. I'm sure if you look around, you will already find someone who had this brilliant idea before. Why don't you breed a potbellied pig and an elephant? Then you can make pygmy elephants! Signature-Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net "Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG Ugh!! Just what we need... someone who has no idea what the F they are > doing to start breeding cats. I'm sure if you look around, you will already > find someone who had this brilliant idea before. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > -- > -Kelly ** Yaaawn. What a blanky-blank horror that would be. Lighten up, Kelly. You must be in your 20's. Oh and BTW, since when is mating within the same class of species the same as mating between non related species, like a "potbellied pig and an elephant"? Bone up on your science, will you? PLONK... ML > ** Yaaawn. What a blanky-blank horror that would be. Yes it would. Do you have the privilge of seeing unwanted cats every day? Taking calls from people who need to turn in a litter from their unspayed female? >Lighten up, Kelly. No, I won't. >You must be in your 20's. What difference does my age make? And no, I'm not in my 20's. >Oh and BTW, since when is mating within the same class > of species the same as mating between non related species, like a > "potbellied pig and an elephant"? Bone up on your science, will you? I was making the comparison that your idea is as ridiculous as the pig and elephant thing. It's from a popular cartoon. No, I don't really think cat breeding is the same as interspecies. Give me a break. > PLONK... Yeah whatever. I'll be taking your call when you get your first batch of "reject" kittens that didn't turn out the way you planned. Signature-Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net "Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG Yeah, NS. It amazing how "honorable" all these people are who breed, yet the shelters are full of purebreds... -L. >Yeah, NS. It amazing how "honorable" all these people are who breed, >yet the shelters are full of purebreds... Full of? You have got to be joking. Or are you saying that anything that has points is a purebred Siamese? Or a long-haird brown tabby is a Maine Coon? Or a cat with a spot anywhere on it's body is a Bengal? If those are your requirements, then yes, the shelters are full of purebreds. If not, the purebred cat population makes up around six percent of the population of owned cats and only 3.8 percent of the entire known population of cats. Roaming, free breeding cats, on the other hand, make up well over a third of the known cat population. IMO, it's pretty easy to see where the problem is. Ob OP - Deliberately breeding mixed-breed cats (which a Himmie/Siamese cross would be, as neither breed has acceptable outcrosses at this time) is a bad idea. Not only would a responsible breeder refuse to have their cats involved in such a thing, but it's generally a bad idea. Unless you are willing to do all the prerequisite (and expensive) genetic health testing (FHD, PKD, and HCM on the Himmie side and pateller luxation, HCM, and nystigma on the Siamese side) you'd be extrordinarily irresponsible instead of merely irresponsible. And keep in mind that a Himmie/Siamese cross wouldn't necessarily have all the best qualties of both -- the genetics of temperament are exceedingly poorly understood at this point. People can say 'Siamese are talkative and loyal' and 'Persians (which Himmies are classified as) are gentle and docile' because these traits have been selected for over decades of controlled breeding. Orchid See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage Want a Purebred Cat? Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid Where are you getting your statistics? When I worked at the HS in Indianapolis, the purebred animal rate ran around 12.5% Not all were papered, some were, but all were, for all intents and purposes, purebred. Not a pointed cat being a Siamese per your example, but a pointed cat with Siamese confirmation being a Siamese, especially if surrendered as a purebred. I hate to be the one to tell you but not all purebred kittens are S/N and not all stay in their "loving, forever homes". Breed rescue exists for a reason, and many times they are so overun with purebreds rescued from shelters that other purebreds in the shelters are euthanized along with the moggies. I don't believe for a minute that anyone can come up with meaningful statistics on feral cat populations and how they contribute to the overpopulation problem. Furthermore *every* cat that ends up at a shelter contributes to the problem. Random-bred, "purebred", all of them. It's exactly this "it's not my problem" attitude that breeders have which results in kittens and cats on the dead pile. I've called more than one "respected" breeder about one of their animals being surrendered and the answer has been on more than one occasion, to kill the cat if a home wasn't found. Bile-producing scum, they are. -L. Honestly, it really saddens me to see people attributing the qualities in a cat they admired to it's breed. They're all individual living creatures, and a great cat is just a great cat because THEY are - purebred or moggie (which is what Blue was, after all, part-siamese and part himalayan is simply not a purebred cat). There is absolutely no reason to believe that a similiar cross would have the same characteristics at all and most probably it wouldn't. We don't need to breed any more cats. What we need to do is find loving homes for all the other great moggies who don't have them. If you are interested in cats with these characteristics, then get involved in rescue. There's a literal armada of part-siamese and part-himalayan and part-persian cats, many of them beautiful and loving creatures, who need homes. Walk into any shelter and there they are. Help them! I'm sure that would be the best tribute to Blue you could possibly make and he'd definitely approve. Possibly the best reply to this thread, yet. -L. > Possibly the best reply to this thread, yet. > > -L. If anyone knew who you were replying to, I still wouldn't be interested in your opinion. >Where are you getting your statistics? http://www.fanciers.com/npa/sdanalysis.html Fascinating read, btw. Orchid See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage Want a Purebred Cat? Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid > >Where are you getting your statistics? > > http://www.fanciers.com/npa/sdanalysis.html > > Fascinating read, btw. Fascinating bias. Nice plagiarism, btw, too. -L. > > >Where are you getting your statistics? > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Fascinating bias. Nice plagiarism, btw, too. The site is operated by breeders, so they do have a vested interest in showing a certain picture of cat ownership. Then again, you aren't exactly being super-persuasive when your only rejoinder is 'nice bias'. What plagiarism? The article is referenced, although the citations are, for the most part, not complete. S. > > > >Where are you getting your statistics? > > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > What plagiarism? Orchid took her statements almost word for word from the article including "it's pretty easy to see where the problem lies" or whatever bullshit line it was. If you're (generic) going to use a source so blatantly, cite it. Don't pass it off as your own unless someone asks. -L. > > > >Where are you getting your statistics? > > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > showing a certain picture of cat ownership. Then again, you aren't > exactly being super-persuasive when your only rejoinder is 'nice bias'. BTW, I'm not trying to be "persuasive". I could spend an hour pointing out all the flaws in the supposed "conclusions" of the "study" but my time is limited and honestly, I have little patience for breeders of any kind. Thwey contribute to the problem, yet time and time again refuse any accountability. -L. > I hate to be the one to tell you but not >all purebred kittens are S/N and not all stay in their "loving, forever >homes". That's a fact. I'm sure many purebreds, particularly the high-maintenance like Persian, are impulse buys and end up relinquished. You'd probably see many more purebreds in shelters if it weren't for the various breed rescue orgs. Sherry > I was thinking along the lines that everything I've read regarding > Himalayan's say that they are known for being extremely docile and gentle ( [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > this is a Biggie) already spayed their great & beautiful Siamese's and > Himalayans. I digress. I don't know all that much about breeding and genetics, but it does seem to me that in breeding, 2+2 doesn't necessarily equal 4. I'd do some research before you put together a business plan for the venture capitalists! That being said, of course it's true that cats are breeding in all sorts of combinations, all on their own. My main reservation with your idea is that I know there are *so* many cats out there who do need homes that I hate the idea of even more being produced. Signaturemonique, who is sometimes allowed to pet Oscar, a grey^H^H^H^Hblue-cream DLH with an attitude! >Hi everyone, > I just found out that my dearly departed, 19 1/2 year old 'baby child' >named Blue, was actually a half Siamese and half Himalayan. Blue's been >'gone' exactly one month ago, today-Dec.20th-04. >So what exactly did this bloodline make him/Blue? A mix breed? Or, is there >an actual name for a breed like this? Himalayan is a cross between Siamese and Persian. A half himi half siamese would be 3/4 siamese, 1/4 Persian. |
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