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cross-country move with cat--help!

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zeldabee - 07 Dec 2004 18:25 GMT
I'm moving from NYC to Oregon in about a month. Background: I'm a single
mom with a 15-month-old (and a cat). Can't pay my bills in NYC, so I'm
moving west to stay with family. Just to complicate things, my mother's in
hospice in Virginia, so I'm probably going to have to leave from NY and go
down there, deal with stuff, then go out to OR. Think, major huge
family-crisis crunch time.

I want to bring my cat. The thought of leaving her behind is more than I
can bear. Money is tight. I'm looking for a good solution for traveling
with her. I will be flying. I've done some research, but I'm coming up with
contradictory answers. Maybe someone here has direct experience with some
of these issues.

When I was flying back from VA last week (on Delta), I saw a guy with a
small dog in a carrier on the plane, and I asked him how much they charged.
He said nothing--Delta and USAirways don't charge extra for animals as
carry-on. I went to both of those web sites, and at least officially, they
do charge $80-100. So. I can cough that up if necessary, though of course
I'd rather not. Does anyone have experience with this? Some airlines
charging extra and some not?

Also, has anyone had experience with companies that ship pets? If I can
send her to OR, she could stay with family members until I get out there. I
have no clue how much they charge, or whether they're safe to use.

Lastly, I understand from some sources that i'll need a health certificate
from her. The thing is, I don't have her vaccination records available to
me. I adopted her from a rescue organization last year, and they gave me
vax papers for her, but I don't know where they might be. I may come up
with them when I go through stuff to pack, but I may not. Is there any
consequence to re-vaxing her?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

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Chris - 07 Dec 2004 23:50 GMT
I've flown with a very young cat from Tucson, AZ to NYC several years ago.
I had to get a carrier that airlines would accept--though I understand the
soft-sided ones are the best as they are a little bigger but can be
scrunched down under the seat.  I had a backpack filled with food, water,
puppy training pads in case she went in carrier, and a halter on the cat &
leash in the backpack.  Never needed any.  She just lay down & went to
sleep.  I took her out (carefully holding her halter & putting leash on)
when we had layover & she still went to sleep on my lap!).  I even took her
outside to a quiet place during layover in case she had to go--she just
looked at me like I was crazy!

I think the only things different now is that when you go thru security,
they make you take the cat out of the carrier & walk thru the metal detector
with her.  So give yourself plenty of time & make sure you have a halter on
her to hold her.

I don't know if there are airlines that don't charge... they do generally
require health record--maybe you can call the resuce group you got her from
and they can give you the name of the vet they use.  Should be no problem
getting her revaccinated if its around a year.

Be careful about airport shuttle service--some won't let you take a carrier
with animal.  Also, if you stay in motels, I believe Motel 8 allows pets &
the comfort inn chain.  You can check their web page.

Finally, get yourself some of those disposable litter boxes--PetFoodDirect
had them online on sale for 99c each.

> I'm moving from NYC to Oregon in about a month. Background: I'm a single
> mom with a 15-month-old (and a cat). Can't pay my bills in NYC, so I'm
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
Luvskats00 - 08 Dec 2004 01:33 GMT
I believe airlines have specific rules regarding cat carriers. I think there is
something called a Sherpa Carrier (designed by a former airline stewardess)
specifically for airline cat travel. DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, ALLOW
YOUR CAT TO BE PUT INTO CARGO (even if they insist). Call ahead and reserve
and, subsequently, confirm, your reservation for your cat to travel ON THE
PLANE. I believe they allow one cat per flight.
Chris - 08 Dec 2004 05:00 GMT
Sherpa carrier is just one brand--its probably the most expensive so you can
shop around a little.  Just make sure its sturdy enough.  The airlines also
allow hard sided carrier but have size limits so a soft sided that can be
squished down a little is better.

>I believe airlines have specific rules regarding cat carriers. I think
>there is
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> and, subsequently, confirm, your reservation for your cat to travel ON THE
> PLANE. I believe they allow one cat per flight.
Mimi Forsyth - 08 Dec 2004 05:14 GMT
<< DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, ALLOW
YOUR CAT TO BE PUT INTO CARGO  >>

That cannot be emphasized too much!!!!

The airlines that allow pets in the cabin sometimes allow only 3 max per
flight, so reservations have to be made well in advance for them. The Sherpa
carriers (soft sided) are the best, & they have to go under the plane seat.
If you could possibly drive with the cat, that would be far less traumatic.

www.mimiforsyth.com
zeldabee - 08 Dec 2004 17:08 GMT
> << DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, ALLOW
> YOUR CAT TO BE PUT INTO CARGO  >>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> plane seat. If you could possibly drive with the cat, that would be far
> less traumatic.

I've already ruled out cargo, I think. I did get an estimate for shipping
her airport-to-airport, and it was only $150. But they didn't say how they
shipped the animals, I'm assuming in a cargo hold, and they offered
insurance against loss or theft...at $1 per $100 of value...not sure how
I'd come up with some figure that would compensate me for the loss of my
little mutt cat. So, carry-on it is.

Driving's not an option--I've lived in NYC my entire adult life, have no
car, no license--but even if it were, it wouldn't be feasible with my
15-month-old boy. Far easier on everyone to fly. Besides, I have a hard
time seeing how a 4-day car trip would be less traumatic for a cat than one
12-hour day travelling by air.

She's generally a laid-back animal, anyway. When I brought her home, I
though she'd freak in the car, but she was perfectly content. Then when I
got her home, I figured that she'd just hide for a while, but she happily
explored, and then came to me for a cuddle. That's just how she is. The
only thing that rattles her that I know of is shaking large crinkly plastic
shopping bags around her. Vacuum cleaners, drills, hammering all cause her
to swivel her ears a bit before she ambles away to the next room.

Anyway, I think she'll be ok, I just hoped some people would have specific
experience to share.

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Mary - 08 Dec 2004 17:37 GMT
> Anyway, I think she'll be ok, I just hoped some people would have specific
> experience to share.

I flew too tiny kittens on American years back. They were in a small
carrier, and slept through the whole thing. I also flew an adult cat
Houston to Boston with a layover in between with no problems.

You have nothing to worry about
as long as you okay it with the airline first and have your cat in the type
of
carrier they recommend. I would take the precaution of putting a lightweight
harness and leash on her just in case you have to take her out for any
reason.
She will not get hungry or thirsty and will most likely not eliminate at all
while in transit.
She'll be too nervous. Make sure she's well fed and hydrated the days
before.
Mimi Forsyth - 08 Dec 2004 19:42 GMT
<< . So, carry-on it is. >>

The trauma of flying, for cats is the unfamiliar surroundings & the horrific
noise of a plane (for hours).....Being "in cabin" is certainly preferable to
cargo hold...which may or may not be heated & pressurized.  If your cat is a
Persian or other breed with a flat face, it already has the maximum of
breathing troubles without additional ones from flying as cargo.
If your cat dies en route, the airline saying "oops, sorry" isn't quite good
enough, is it?
If you have the cat in the cabin with you, you can at least reach down & give
it some reassuring scritches or talk to it (over the din).

www.mimiforsyth.com
zeldabee - 08 Dec 2004 22:01 GMT
> << . So, carry-on it is. >>
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> If you have the cat in the cabin with you, you can at least reach down &
> give it some reassuring scritches or talk to it (over the din).

Well, I think she'll be ok with me. It's fly with her or abandon her,
really. She was already abandoned once, and she shadows me most of the
time, and doesn't eat much when I spend the night away from home. (I aspire
to be worthy of her apparent esteem...)

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Mimi Forsyth - 09 Dec 2004 00:03 GMT
<< Well, I think she'll be ok with me. It's fly with her or abandon her,
really. She was already abandoned once, and she shadows me most of the
time, and doesn't eat much when I spend the night away from home. (I aspire
to be worthy of her apparent esteem. >>

You seem to be a very good cat mom. Lucky cat!
People want to sedate cats that fly, but it's really not in the cat's best
interests. The cat has to be alert to react to physical circumstances.
When you get to destination, lots of hugs & treats, okay?
Bon voyage.....

www.mimiforsyth.com
Rona Yuthasastrakosol - 08 Dec 2004 22:06 GMT
> Driving's not an option--I've lived in NYC my entire adult life, have no
> car, no license--but even if it were, it wouldn't be feasible with my
> 15-month-old boy. Far easier on everyone to fly. Besides, I have a hard
> time seeing how a 4-day car trip would be less traumatic for a cat than one
> 12-hour day travelling by air.

http://www.pro-pet-transports.com is a company that will transport your cat
across country for you.  They drive, so you don't have to.  It's the company
that was used to transport Jack (a wonderful story, and tribute to the good
folks on this ng--you can google it or perhaps someone here will give you
the specific link to the thread) from Seattle to somewhere around St. Louis.
It's not cheap, though, so if you're on a limited budget they might not be
the best option.

rona
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Cat Protector - 09 Dec 2004 01:30 GMT
I am not sure I could ever use a service such as this. I'd be too worried
about something happening to my cats.

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"Rona Yuthasastrakosol" <prasantrin@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:41b77b2a$0$29563

> http://www.pro-pet-transports.com is a company that will transport your
> cat
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> rona
MaryL - 09 Dec 2004 03:42 GMT
>> Driving's not an option--I've lived in NYC my entire adult life, have no
>> car, no license--but even if it were, it wouldn't be feasible with my
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> rona

Here is the story of Jack that you requested.  Just as you said, it really
is a wonderful story and shows how helpful and concerned some of the people
on this NG are.
http://www.ect.org/dj/js-0.html

MaryL
Barb - 08 Dec 2004 15:59 GMT
I am so pleased with you that you are keeping your cat.  (I should think
so!)  And I wish you the very best.  More than 30 years ago as a single mom
I moved with my 6 month old son and 10 year old cat from Florida to New
York.  I did the drive in about 3 days.  My cat was never left in the car,
nor my son of course.  When we went into restaurants or rest rooms I carried
my cat in one of those pet shoulder bags that looks like a giant pocket book
and just threw my wallet in there.  In restaurants if Bandi let out a mew I
covered it up by pretending my son did it!  Like one of the posters said,
driving might be less traumatic.  Puts you more in charge.

--
Barb
Of course I don't look busy,
I did it right the first time.
Mary - 08 Dec 2004 17:33 GMT
Like one of the posters said,
> driving might be less traumatic.  Puts you more in charge.
>
> --

I did LA to Raleigh, NC years ago with a cat in a carrier. She hated the
road, but as soon as we got to a hotel she was fine. The hard part is
finding hotels that take pets. I had not thought of that and so just snuck
her in and cleaned up after her. (Of course I NEVER left the hotel room
once I checked in.) There are those disposable cat boxes
with litter already in them these days that would make it easier.
Cat Protector - 09 Dec 2004 00:49 GMT
I am glad you are thinking of taking your cat with you. Today at Petsmart I
saw some cats up for adoption and one was left behind simply because the
humans were moving to the UK. They could have taken the cat with them
especially with the new laws regarding quarantine there. I could really tell
this cat was sad and was wondering why his/her humans dumped them in a
shelter. It was truly heartbreaking to see. I wished the cat new humans that
would love him/her and a good home.

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> I'm moving from NYC to Oregon in about a month. Background: I'm a single
> mom with a 15-month-old (and a cat). Can't pay my bills in NYC, so I'm
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
KellyH - 10 Dec 2004 04:01 GMT
>I am glad you are thinking of taking your cat with you. Today at Petsmart I
>saw some cats up for adoption and one was left behind simply because the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>shelter. It was truly heartbreaking to see. I wished the cat new humans
>that would love him/her and a good home.

I don't know that I would subject my cats to a cross-ocean flight.  Being a
shelter volunteer who does cat intakes, I can forgive someone a little
easier for surrendering their cats due to a intercontinental move over these
other idiots who are just moving across town.

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-Kelly
kelly at farringtons dot net
"Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG

twrl@britsysdsl.net - 10 Dec 2004 06:58 GMT
I did this about a year ago with my cat (the first one) when we moved
from Chicago to the Bay Area. I totally freaked out about it at the
time, but it went quite well. We flew ATA and paid $75 for her "seat",
and I didn't come across any airline that didn't a.ses such a charge.
We splurged and bought the Sherpa case, rather expensive, but I wanted
her to be reasonably comfortable given the 4 hour flight plus to and
from the airport and of course, they last forever once you bite the
bullet and buy one. She was in the cabin with us and we had a harness
on her as well. My boyfriend took her through security and said she
took one look around and "clung to him". Smart kitty. She mewled a fair
bit, mostly asking what was going on, and when I bent down and took the
bag on my lap and unzipped it slightly, her head popped out
immediately. She was dying to take a look around! On arrival - about
seven hours after she left, she popped out of the case,  took a look at
the new house, and proceeded to eat, poop and settle right in. Went
very smoothly. The health certificate is for rabies and there is a form
a vet fills out in triplicate. We had it, but no one ever asked for it
any point. It is NOT good to over vaccinate the cat for rabies, so if
you can't find the documentation, go back to the shelter and find out
who their vet is and get the certificate from them.
zeldabee - 10 Dec 2004 14:46 GMT
> "Cat Protector" <catprotector@cox.net> wrote...
> >I am glad you are thinking of taking your cat with you.

Not thinking of it...I'm taking her, by hook or by crook. AFAIAC, she's my
cat until one of us croaks. The only way I'd consider giving her away would
be if my son turned out to be badly allergic, if his health were
endangered, fortunately there's no indication of that.

>Today at
> >Petsmart I saw some cats up for adoption and one was left behind simply
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> easier for surrendering their cats due to a intercontinental move over
> these other idiots who are just moving across town.

I think my cat would get over the trauma of the flight a lot faster than
she would get over being abandoned. I suppose it varies by cat, and maybe
I'm projecting, but I think my cat has 'issues' from having been abandoned.
She was rescued from the pound where she had been surrendered, no
indication of why she was left there. The thing is, she was clearly a
people cat, and expects to be doted upon, so I think she had to have been
treated with some affection before being dumped at the pound. She seems to
have a lot of anxiety about being left, screams at the door when she hears
me coming home, stays glued to me when I come home after being gone
overnight...

Having said that, though, one of my co-workers was all set to move to
Italy, and then decided not to go, because he doesn't want to leave his
cat, and knows that he won't tolerate the move. This is an older, portly
cat, that apparently freaks out when he goes in the carrier for 15 minutes,
and when he's been sedated for one reason or another at the vets, it took a
great deal of sedation to get him calm enough to do whatever had to be
done, and he had a hard time recovering from it. He could end up one of
those animals that doesn't survive such a trip at all.

My cat, now...I think she'll be a bit stressed, but she'll get over it. My
15-month-old boy will be stressed, too, and I'll be a basket case, but
we've got to go. (Both cat and boy are going to love their new home, of
that I'm sure.)

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Cat Protector - 11 Dec 2004 01:02 GMT
I feel the same way about my cats. If someone close to me was allergic to
the dander I wouldn't give the cats away. They are my kids and not to be
thrown away. Besides they have allergy specialists and medications. Also, if
you are exposed to the allergin regularly, your body can develop an
immunity.

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"zeldabee" <zeldabee@apollo.geese.com> wrote in message
news:20041210094640.423

> Not thinking of it...I'm taking her, by hook or by crook. AFAIAC, she's my
> cat until one of us croaks. The only way I'd consider giving her away
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> we've got to go. (Both cat and boy are going to love their new home, of
> that I'm sure.)
Meghan Noecker - 11 Dec 2004 02:39 GMT
>I feel the same way about my cats. If someone close to me was allergic to
>the dander I wouldn't give the cats away. They are my kids and not to be
>thrown away. Besides they have allergy specialists and medications. Also, if
>you are exposed to the allergin regularly, your body can develop an
>immunity.

Yes. My mom is allergic to both cats and dogs, and we have always had
animals. She grew up with dogs. She goes once a month to get two
allergy shots that keep her reactions to a minimum. She has more
problem with pollen and weather changes than animal dander.

My brother is allergic to cats, but he did fine before he moved out.
After that, he did lose his built-up immunity, so he takes an allergy
tablet when he stops by. He hasn't done holidays here since he got
married, but the old routine was to lock all dogs and cats out of the
main rooms and vacuum before he arrived. He would take his tablets. On
Christmas, he would leave after gifts and come back in a couple hours
for dinner. This seemed to work pretty well for him.

I am allergic to dogs. I remember when I was 4 or 5, the doctor said I
should not sleep in the same room as a dog. My dog slept under the
covers. Later, I got a fluffier dog, who also slept under the covers.
The current dog is a fluffy porcupine, and she sleeps on top of the
bed, but that's her choice. She is claustrophobic.

I was diagnosed with asthma when I was 19. My allergies make it worse.
And you couldn't pay me to get my dog away from me. For the most part,
it doesn't bother me. I have to wash my bed comforter more, and I have
learned to brush the dog on the bed unless I out down a towel and take
it off again. The left over hair can set off a bad attack. And I wash
my hads after a good brushing. Petting is fine though.

Like my mom, I have far worse problems with dust, perfumes, and other
allergens, than the dog living in my room. I can tell you when the
pollen or grass count is high, before the news comes on.

I have also moved cross country with pets twice. When I was 9, we
moved from Washington to Iowa with 3 dogs, 2 cats, and 2 turtles. At
that time, 2 of the dogs were my grandmother's and she was just moving
in with us; so that was more of an upset to the animals than the trip
across country. Toughy the dog learned never to follow the cats
upstairs. He chased darcy under a bed, and she ripped a gash in his
nose. He never went upstairs again.

Four years later, we moved back to Washington. That time, we had 2
different dogs, 4 cats, and 2 turtles. My grandmother was more frail,
so she flew with her dog, and the rest came with us in the van.

My mom had gotten another cat, who had kittens a couple months before
the the move. She chewed through a window screen, jumped two floors,
spent the night in the garage with a traveling tom cat; one night
before the prearranged meeting with a Siamese tom. She had 8 kittens.
My mom thought that keeping one kitten would keep her from going into
season, so we gave away 7, and figured we would give the 8th away once
we moved.

Well, the first day into the trip, she starting yowling, so she and
the kitten were transferred to one of the cars being towed. When we
got to seattle, we advertised the free kitten, but he was so ugly, we
didn't get a single call. That was in August. by Novemeber, I knew I
wanted him, so I asked for him to be my Christmas gift. Christmas came
and went, no mention of Maynard. I asked my dad the next day. His
response? "I guess so. Nobody else seems to want him!"  Maynard turned
18 this past June.

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Mimi Forsyth - 11 Dec 2004 06:39 GMT
Meghan-
Enjoyed your tale..and also your website. It's obvious you love what you do.
best,
Mimi

www.mimiforsyth.com
Mary - 11 Dec 2004 12:24 GMT
>When we
> got to seattle, we advertised the free kitten, but he was so ugly, we
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Equine and Pet Photography
> http://www.zoocrewphoto.com

Meghan, great story! I wanted to see Maynard again but your "Cats" photo
link
does not work!
Cat Protector - 11 Dec 2004 00:57 GMT
It still is a pretty poor excuse. Cats can handle a intercontinental move
just fine. I don't like people who feel they are inconvenienced so they end
up dumping the cat in a shelter or wherever. I looked at this cat and could
pretty much tell he/she was saddened and wondering why the humans did this
to him/her. My heart went out to this poor feline which I hope gets adopted.

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> I don't know that I would subject my cats to a cross-ocean flight.  Being
> a shelter volunteer who does cat intakes, I can forgive someone a little
> easier for surrendering their cats due to a intercontinental move over
> these other idiots who are just moving across town.
KellyH - 11 Dec 2004 02:43 GMT
> It still is a pretty poor excuse. Cats can handle a intercontinental move
> just fine. I don't like people who feel they are inconvenienced so they
> end up dumping the cat in a shelter or wherever. I looked at this cat and
> could pretty much tell he/she was saddened and wondering why the humans
> did this to him/her. My heart went out to this poor feline which I hope
> gets adopted.

If it were me, I probably wouldn't move.  I have 6 cats, one who's
semi-feral, and one who was all freaked out after moving to the neighboring
town.  Even though I would love to live overseas sometime, I would just have
to pass it up because my cats come first.  I really don't think all cats can
handle a move like that "just fine".

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jamie - 15 Dec 2004 19:26 GMT
> It still is a pretty poor excuse. Cats can handle a intercontinental move
> just fine. I don't like people who feel they are inconvenienced so they end
> up dumping the cat in a shelter or wherever. I looked at this cat and could
> pretty much tell he/she was saddened and wondering why the humans did this
> to him/her. My heart went out to this poor feline which I hope gets adopted.

The post you responded to referred to a cross-ocean flight.
How would you feel about quarantining your cats in an agency cage for
some weeks or months, depending on the laws of the country you were
moving to?

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Ashley - 16 Dec 2004 00:58 GMT
> The post you responded to referred to a cross-ocean flight.
> How would you feel about quarantining your cats in an agency cage for
> some weeks or months, depending on the laws of the country you were
> moving to?

You are usually allowed to visit your  cat in quarantine.
Cat Protector - 16 Dec 2004 16:18 GMT
Not in the UK from what I have read. As long as you bring the cat's medical
records and certifications of the shots such as rabies, etc, there is no
quarintine period for felines arriving from the U.S. & Canada.

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>
>> The post you responded to referred to a cross-ocean flight.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> You are usually allowed to visit your  cat in quarantine.
Ashley - 16 Dec 2004 18:25 GMT
> Not in the UK from what I have read. As long as you bring the cat's
> medical records and certifications of the shots such as rabies, etc, there
> is no quarintine period for felines arriving from the U.S. & Canada.

My knowledge of this comes from a cat taken from the UK to Aus about 10
years ago. He spent, I think, 6 weeks in quarantine, but during that time my
cousin was able to visit him. I have some friends who brought their two
(elderly) cats from the UK to here (NZ). To be honest, I'm not sure what
experience they had in quarantine - but I'm pretty sure we'd make sure cats
went through it!
Yngver - 16 Dec 2004 19:58 GMT
>> Not in the UK from what I have read. As long as you bring the cat's
>> medical records and certifications of the shots such as rabies, etc, there
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>experience they had in quarantine - but I'm pretty sure we'd make sure cats
>went through it!

Yes, that was the case ten years ago, but as of late 2002 the U.K. extended its
Pet Travel Scheme program to include the U.S. and Canada. Pet dogs and cats
(and certain other kinds of pets) no longer need to be quarantined if the pet
is microchipped and has proper documentation, including proof of rabies
immunity and treatment against ticks and tapeworm.
Zythophile - 17 Dec 2004 23:02 GMT
>>> Not in the UK from what I have read. As long as you bring the cat's
>>> medical records and certifications of the shots such as rabies, etc,
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> is microchipped and has proper documentation, including proof of rabies
> immunity and treatment against ticks and tapeworm.

Big mistake IMHO. Our quarantine laws kept us rabies free since 1919. I
can't see these new "pet passport" laws doing a better job. If it ain't
broke, don't fix it. If a country was rabies free and had the same
quarantine laws as we used to have, there was no requirement to quarantine
the animals. IIRC, this applied to ROI and Scandinavia in Europe, not sure
about the rest of the world.

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Z
51? 37' 23" N,  3? 56' 27" W

Ashley - 18 Dec 2004 00:53 GMT
> Big mistake IMHO. Our quarantine laws kept us rabies free since 1919. I
> can't see these new "pet passport" laws doing a better job. If it ain't
> broke, don't fix it. If a country was rabies free and had the same
> quarantine laws as we used to have, there was no requirement to quarantine
> the animals. IIRC, this applied to ROI and Scandinavia in Europe, not sure
> about the rest of the world.

Probably applied to us down here in lil ol rabies-free NZ as well :-). I've
just looked up our site - quarantine of 30-180 days for most countries,
depending on how the cat's transported and what shows up on testing when it
arrives.

But cats and dogs from Aus and the UK can just bowl right on in, without any
quarantine, on the grounds of their rabies-free status I would imagine.
jengoolsby@gmail.com - 10 Dec 2004 23:22 GMT
> I'm moving from NYC to Oregon in about a month. Background: I'm a single
> mom with a 15-month-old (and a cat). Can't pay my bills in NYC, so I'm
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> --
> z e l d a b e e @ p a n i x . c o m                http://NewsReader.Com/
 
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