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Why is this cat biting me?

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ph_leung - 30 Nov 2004 01:14 GMT
I am adopting a cat from a friend but it bites me and I am not sure
how to stop him from doing this.

He is a 6 year old, neutered male, orange-brown short haired cat.  It
has lived as an indoor cat with it's previous owner since it was 4
months old.  The vet checks his health to be fine and all shots have
been given.  According to the previous owner there has been no bites
to people.

He now lives with me in a 2 level apartment.  I have had him for 6
weeks now and he is very friendly with me most of the time.  He is
comfortable enough with me to sleep on my lap while watching TV or
while reading a book.  He purrs most of the time I'm around.

These are the situations when he has bitten me.
- When I got home, I petting him about 5 times and started walking
upstairs to change and shower.  He ran up behind and bit into my lower
left leg.
- When I got home, I said hello to him started walking upstairs to
change and shower.  He ran up behind and bit into my lower right leg.
(two other attempts like this but I blocked with my bag)
- I was on my couch talking on the phone.  He was sitting on my lap
watching TV and purring.  He turns around and bites my free hand that
was on the armrest.
- I was watching TV on the couch.  He is sitting on my lap and
purring.  He bites my hand that was beside my thigh.

The attacks and bites are not like the hyperactive play fight bites
that some cats give.  He does have these play fights so I can
recognize this behaviour.  He is usually purring immediately before
and after the attack.  In each of these bites he has punctured deep
into my flesh and cause a serious infection.  The bites are not nips
(I've experienced his little "love" nips) but he yanks multiple times
once he's punctured into my flesh as if he were trying to tear into
me.  In none of these instances except the first, was I petting him.

This behaviour is puzzling and the vet couldn't explain why the cat
does this.
Cheryl - 30 Nov 2004 02:29 GMT
> This behaviour is puzzling and the vet couldn't explain why the
> cat does this.

You are describing the exact behavior that my Shamrock has. He is
a leg biter, and bites out of the blue (not from overstimulation
unless just looking at him overstimulates him, though he also has
the classic overstimulation biting).

I've had him for over 2 years and haven't solved this problem yet.
I've sort of gotten used to it, though he can bite hard,
especially when I'm getting his food ready, or I'm stepping in the
shower. For a while he really scared me because I couldn't walk
across the room without him attacking my legs and I would always
have scratches and bite marks on my ankles and lower legs. I used
to carry a laser pointer to divert him, and this worked well.  He
isn't nearly this bad anymore, but he still has his moments. Some
cats just seem to be like this, and otherwise he is a very cuddly,
nice cat. Sometimes he seems like he really wants to be pet, but
you can't touch him in certain places. There only seems to be
about a 2 sq inch area around his head that isn't off-limits, and
only *sometimes*. lol

I've come to the conclusion that he thinks I'm a big cat because
he treats me the same as he does my other cats.

As an aside (which is probably very relavent) Shamrock has
allergies that cause his skin to erupt in lesions, and can only be
relieved by steroid shots. I attribute his behavior sometimes to
just being itchy, grouchy and possibly in pain at times. In all
this time I haven't been able to find the allergen but I think I
might have found it because he is doing very well after a recent
(yet again) diet change.

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Cheryl

Hodge - 30 Nov 2004 03:57 GMT
> > This behaviour is puzzling and the vet couldn't explain why the
> > cat does this.
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> about a 2 sq inch area around his head that isn't off-limits, and
> only *sometimes*. lol

Sounds like Hodge, who, like Shamrock, has improved somewhat, but
occasionally still goes a little nutso.

> I've come to the conclusion that he thinks I'm a big cat because
> he treats me the same as he does my other cats.

Hodge thinks I'm prey. He keeps reaching a leg out to trip me, just like
a lion or leopard with a gazelle. (I'd make a big meal or two is all I
can say.)
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Mary - 30 Nov 2004 03:00 GMT
>These are the situations when he has bitten me.
>- When I got home, I petting him about 5 times and started walking
>upstairs to change and shower.  He ran up behind and bit into my lower
>left leg.

I had a cat do this. He'd bite me when I'd arrive home from work and didn't pet
him "enough." He basically wanted me to play with him more because he was bored
and lonely. My cat would sometimes bite if I spoke to someone else or was not
petting him when he felt I should be. I just decided to give him tons more
attention. I'd play with him with a toy dangling on a string. I'd try to tire
him out. Sometimes I'd even pet him "too much" so he'd get off my lap. I think
your cat just needs more attention and play time when you come home from work.
Think of it as wind down time for both of you. He'll get better as time goes
by. Did he used to live with another cat and get along with that cat? If so,
maybe he needs a buddy to keep him company when you're at work. Don't get a
kitten. Get an older cat IF he used to enjoy other cats. If not, just play with
him more when you get home.
Dick Peavey - 30 Nov 2004 15:23 GMT
> >These are the situations when he has bitten me.
>>- When I got home, I petting him about 5 times and started walking
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> play with
> him more when you get home.

Squeaky used to bite my leg also. I interpreted as "Hey, get back here,
you're not through petting me!" He grabbed me with his claws (scalpels)
and bit at the same time with a "come-along" tug.

First, I stopped being bare-legged around him. Second, I said "Ow! NO!"
Third I didn't take my eyes off him when I went to the fridge for his
food, or whatever. He eventually got the idea that biting and clawing my
leg was not something I enjoyed.

Both my cats also would pounce on my leg, especially if I was wearing my
long bathrobe. That was more play than "Hey, get back here."

Dick
kaeli - 30 Nov 2004 16:26 GMT
> These are the situations when he has bitten me.
> - When I got home, I petting him about 5 times and started walking
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> This behaviour is puzzling and the vet couldn't explain why the cat
> does this.

It sounds to me as if he's correcting you. Twice you were walking away and
twice he bit the hand NOT petting him.

He wants more attention or interaction, and he's correcting you for not
giving it to him. He may be used to being the boss.
My personal opinion is that *I* am the boss in my home. My critters get away
with a lot (they're quite spoiled), but I put my foot down for some things,
especially biting or aggressive behavior towards me or any other animal or
person in my home. If this were my cat, I would immediately correct [1] *him*
after the bite and then give him a timeout for 10 minutes or so. He doesn't
get to tell you that he wants attention - he can *ask*, but he better not
*tell*, if you get the distinction.
I don't know how much you play with him, or how much he was used to, but he
may just really need more stimulation. It's one thing to correct him, but it
doesn't solve the underlying issue. He may just redirect into destroying
property. You want to solve the real issue while still making sure he
understands that hard biting is NEVER acceptable. Either spend more time
playing with him or perhaps consider a second cat to add to your home. It is
my opinion (and experience) that 2 cats are nearly always better than one. A
few cats simply won't accept other cats in their territory. Most, however,
like the company.

Of course, I assume since you mentioned the vet that he has already been
checked for health problems. Health problems should always be ruled out
before assuming the issue is strictly behavioral.

[1] By "correct", I do not mean to hurt him. A light scruff shake (just a
firm grab of the scruff with his weight still on a solid surface - do not
pick his weight up by his scruff, ever), a nose tap, or even a just a loud
booming NO should suffice. Some cats hate getting squirted with water. Others
hate loud noise. Any aversive will do. You want his respect, not fear.
Note that, occasionally, bossy cats may react with further aggression
(hissing, spitting, swiping, or more biting) when corrected. If he does this,
STOP. You don't want a battle. You'll both lose in the long run. Stick with
positive motivators to shape desired behavior and timeouts as punishment if
he reacts aggressively to corrections. You may want to consult an animal
behaviorist if he responds aggressively to corrections. One size does NOT fit
all in animal training.

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ph_leung - 30 Nov 2004 23:45 GMT
Thanks everyone for all the advice.

The cat came from a one cat family with kids and their parents.  The
parents never liked the cat and the kids did not spend much time with
him because of school and work.  This cat has met other cats before
and supposedly they get into serious fights immediately.  I'm not sure
of the grabbing him would work well.  On on of these attacks, he
wouldn't let go after me shouting "OW!" "AW!" really loud.  I tried
grabbing him and he bit my hand (I was quick enough that it only
caused a scratch).  I'm pretty sure we'd have a big fight if we
continued.

I'll see what I can do with all the suggestions.
Alison - 01 Dec 2004 00:41 GMT
> Thanks everyone for all the advice.
> of the grabbing him would work well.  On on of these attacks, he
> wouldn't let go after me shouting "OW!" "AW!" really loud.  I tried
> grabbing him and he bit my hand (I was quick enough that it only
> caused a scratch).  I'm pretty sure we'd have a big fight if we
> continued.

I think so too. My cat Kim can be aggressive and she would go beserk
if I grabbed her.
Does you cat run up and bite your leg only when you are going up
stairs when you come home from work , does he do it at other times or
in other places?
Alison
Jennifer - 30 Nov 2004 20:06 GMT
While she never broke the skin, one of my cats used to bite the back
of my leg if I wasn't giving her the attention she wanted.  It was
almost always when I was at my computer, where I have a can of
compressed air handy, and she hates that noise... she doesn't bite
very often anymore :)

--
Jennifer
zuzu22@webtv.net - 30 Nov 2004 20:31 GMT
<snip story of cat biting>
From the scenario you decribe, it sounds to me like this cat is acting
out because he is partly stressed from the changes in his life, and
partly because he is bored and has built up energy that is expended as
aggression towards you. There are a couple of things you can do to
minimize this behavior, and over time eliminate it if you are very
consistent, although it will probably take awhile to do so.

Ignore the advice Kaeli gave you to "correct" this cat with scruffing
(Kaeli should be ashamed of herself for even suggesting such a thing.)
The cat will look at this as an aggressive action, which will cause a
fear based reaction, and will only make things worse. Physical
corrections should NEVER be used. EVER.

The best solution would be to adopt a second cat as a buddy and playmate
for your cat. Not just any cat will do. In this situation your best bet
would be to find a male that is similar in size and activity level, very
playful, but with a laid back, tolerant personality. Making sure to do a
very slow introduction is key to these two forming a friendship. You can
read how to do that here:
http://www.catsinternational.org/articles/getting_a_cat/good_introduction.html

Even if getting a second cat is not possible, you need to do some things
to keep this cat mentally stimulated while you're away and develop a
routine at home that gives him something he can count on.

One thing I always do is leave the radio on set to a classical station
on a low volume 24 hours a day. This has a calming influence and hearing
different music and calm voices throughout the day is an easy way to
keep your cat's mind busy.

Providing him with a nice, *tall* cat tree he can climb and play on and
placing it in front of a window so he can watch the world go by is
something I would definitely recommend as well. You can see an example
of one of my favorites in the last photo at this link:
http://community.webtv.net/zuzu22/scratch

If possible you can make this even more enjoyable for the cat by putting
a bird feeder outside the window where the cat tree is.

You also need to take steps to take your cat's focus off of you as
"prey" and send him in another direction.

If your cat will chase the dot from a laser pointer carry one with you
when you're home and when you see him getting ready to come after you,
send him off after the dot instead. When purchasing a laser pointer
you're better off buying one that takes AAA batteries as they last much
longer and the batteries are cheaper than the kind that take watch
batteries. I've found great deals on this type of laser pointer on Ebay,
and I have seen one at Target for $10 that is in the section where they
have labelmakers, etc. It looks like a thick, silver pen.

Getting him one or two stuffed animals that are a little smaller than
him are also useful as you can throw them to him when you see him
setting up for the biting behavior and he'll likely grab the toy and
bite that instead. This will take the focus off of you and teach him
that he can beat up the toys as much as he wants. Getting him to beat up
the toys when he's not in attack mode will also teach him that they are
acceptable outlets for his aggression and will also expend some of his
energy.

Keep a few little containers with treats around the house, and if you
see him setting up to attack, grab the container, shale it,then takea
treat and throw it in a different direction. Again, this changes his
focus, gives him something positive, and also the opportunity to chase
something and expend energy.

A wand with feathers on the end is also useful for redirecting his
aggression from you to something more appropriate.

Setting up a regular play session with your cat each evening shortly
after coming home will help, and if you do this at the same time each
evening, and you've taken steps to keep your cat's mind busy during the
day, your cat will quickly fall into the routine and probably will stop
the biting behavior when you walk in because he knows what's coming in a
little bit. Routine is very comforting for cats, and even things like
scooping the litter and feeding meals at the same times and order each
day, or doing your own routine in the same order each day, can help a
cat feel more secure.

Also keep in mind that many cats don't react well to change and will act
out aggressively. Your cat spent several years of his life in another
home with someone else, and having to adjust to a new home and a new
person is a lot to have to deal with, especially when they don't know
why this is happening to them and are totally at our mercy. It can take
a lot of time for a cat to get used to new people and new surroundings,
and underlying fear can certainly manifest as the behavior you describe.
Don't be angry with this cat. Understand what he is going through and
take steps to redirect his aggressive behavior and make him feel that he
is a part of your home and all that happens and over time this behavior
should greatly diminish and hopefully go away.

Megan

                                   
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kaeli - 30 Nov 2004 21:48 GMT
> Ignore the advice Kaeli gave you to "correct" this cat with scruffing
> (Kaeli should be ashamed of herself for even suggesting such a thing.)

I am never ashamed to recommend PROPER corrections that do no harm to an
animal.
I use *gasp* a check (martingale/choker) collar on my dog!!!!!
Oh, the humanity!!!
*swoon*

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zuzu22@webtv.net - 30 Nov 2004 22:16 GMT
Kaeli wrote:
>I am never ashamed to recommend
>PROPER corrections that do no harm to
>an animal.

Causing fear *is* doing harm and that is exactly what you are
recommending doing. Think about that the next time some idiot that's 15
times bigger than you are grabs you by the neck and "corrects" you. It
would either scare you or piss you off, and nether of those reactions is
"positive" or makes you want to willingly change your behavior. There is
no good reason to physically "correct" a cat when there are plenty of
other options available that don't involve creating fear or an
aggressive defensive response. Only people that enjoy harming animals
choose such methods. Apparently you're one of them, especially since you
went on in your previous post to completely contradict your own advice.

Megan

                                   
Signature


"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

Steve G - 01 Dec 2004 16:45 GMT
(...)

> Causing fear *is* doing harm and that is exactly what you are
> recommending doing. Think about that the next time some idiot that's 15
> times bigger than you are grabs you by the neck and "corrects" you. It
> would either scare you or piss you off, and nether of those reactions is
> "positive" or makes you want to willingly change your behavior.

Not necessarily - if the cat has a strong scruff response, then the
'correction' does not cause fear or anger; it's basically an action of
dominance that leads to the cat being calmed somewhat. If the cat does
not have a strong scruff response, well, you'd better line up those
skin grafts, pronto.

Not sure I'd advise scruffing in the OP's case, unless the cat is
attempting to assert dominance and also has a strong scruff response.
However, the OP might try to get someone *else* to squirt the cat with
water when it attacks (difficult to squirt the cat yourself without
being seen by said feline).

One my my cats has a strong scruff response and I will scruff him on
occasion. Works well, in the right context, for the right cat.

S.
Mary - 01 Dec 2004 17:31 GMT
> (...)
> >
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> not have a strong scruff response, well, you'd better line up those
> skin grafts, pronto.

Sometimes when I pick up Cheeks to brush her teeth or carry her to
the room where we sleep or maybe just put her up on the bed and
clean out her eye boogies she scrambles like I am going to kill her.
I began placing her back on the floor gently and talking to her
calmly while very gently but firmly holding her scruff skin. I do not
lift her up, just hold it while she lies on the floor. When I let
go, she is calm and purring and rolling over to get her tummy
rubbed--and she lets me pick her up without alarm.
kaeli - 03 Dec 2004 15:54 GMT
> Works well, in the right context, for the right cat.

THANK YOU!

That's all I was trying to say. Someone got it. Wow.
FOR THE RIGHT CAT. IN THE RIGHT CONTEXT.
Every animal is different. What works for one might be horrid for another.

Everyone else, you're really overcomplicating things. I'm not going to reply
to all the other posts, since they all pretty much keep trying to make this
into WAY more than it is. And I apparently suck a.s at analogies. But we knew
that. Well, I did, anyway.
I'm done.  :)

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kaeli - 01 Dec 2004 19:18 GMT
> Kaeli wrote:
> >I am never ashamed to recommend
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Megan

Now I'm REALLY curious.
How did I contradict myself?

I posted this:
[quote]
From: kaeli <tiny_one@NOSPAM.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <MPG.1c165b38599284e98a2d1@nntp.lucent.com>
[1] By "correct", I do not mean to hurt him. A light scruff shake (just a
firm grab of the scruff with his weight still on a solid surface - do not
pick his weight up by his scruff, ever), a nose tap, or even a just a loud
booming NO should suffice. Some cats hate getting squirted with water. Others
hate loud noise. Any aversive will do. You want his respect, not fear.
Note that, occasionally, bossy cats may react with further aggression
(hissing, spitting, swiping, or more biting) when corrected. If he does this,
STOP. You don't want a battle. You'll both lose in the long run. Stick with
positive motivators to shape desired behavior and timeouts as punishment if
he reacts aggressively to corrections. You may want to consult an animal
behaviorist if he responds aggressively to corrections. One size does NOT fit
all in animal training.
[/quote]

Now, how does a light scruffing as described hurt the cat?
You DID read the whole post before you went off, right? Right?

By the by, I also believe in giving human kids a good thwack on the a.s when
they're misbehaving, too. Oh, but I suppose that just makes them all afraid
and pissed off, too, right?
That's why today's kids are so well-mannered and respectful. Because they
never get a good thwack anymore. There's a ton less violence. Way less people
are in prison. Crime is down. All kinds of winderful things happened when we
got all P.C. and anti-thwacking. Kids really respect their elders now.
Oh, wait...

I'm just so *mean*. I'm a MEANIE!! I beat up innocent cats and children!!
It's my new hobby, dontchaknow.
OMG!!!
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

*sheesh*

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Cheryl - 02 Dec 2004 02:39 GMT
> Now, how does a light scruffing as described hurt the cat?
> You DID read the whole post before you went off, right? Right?
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> anti-thwacking. Kids really respect their elders now. Oh,
> wait...

Kaeli, I'm not getting in the middle of this, but I just want to
point out that comparing cats to kids is apples and oranges. I
totally agree that todays kids are f.cked up and it is mostly due
to the parents. But cats don't learn in the same way kids do.

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Cheryl

Alison - 02 Dec 2004 11:23 GMT
> On Wed 01 Dec 2004 02:18:22p, kaeli wrote in
>>
>> Kaeli, I'm not getting in the middle of this, but I just want to
> point out that comparing cats to kids is apples and oranges. I
> totally agree that todays kids are f.cked up and it is mostly due
> to the parents. But cats don't learn in the same way kids do.

What Cheryl said! I don't want to get in the middle,this isn't
personal .
Kids, believe it or not, are the same species as us:)) With kids you
can explain.
If you have an unpredictable cat that sometimes attacks but you don't
know why and you don't know when  and other times he can be the most
loving cat in the world , when you are around him , no matter how much
you want to love him or pet him, you are always going to be in a state
of anxious anticipation of an attack and that will make you feel wary
and not able to fully relax with your cat.  If the position is
reversed, cats will feel the same way.
 Alison:)
Mary - 02 Dec 2004 03:15 GMT
> I'm just so *mean*. I'm a MEANIE!! I beat up innocent cats and children!!
> It's my new hobby, dontchaknow.
> OMG!!!
> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
>
> *sheesh*

You brute. ;)
Alison - 01 Dec 2004 00:27 GMT
> > Ignore the advice Kaeli gave you to "correct" this cat with scruffing
> > (Kaeli should be ashamed of herself for even suggesting such a thing.)
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Oh, the humanity!!!
> *swoon*

  BG , you are wicked. I have on agree with Megan on this though.
Scruffing isn't a proper correction. I don't think you(one) can deal
with dogs and cats in the same way. This cat is very unsettled and the
owner needs to build up trust with him.
Alison
kaeli - 01 Dec 2004 19:44 GMT
>    BG , you are wicked. I have on agree with Megan on this though.
> Scruffing isn't a proper correction. I don't think you(one) can deal
> with dogs and cats in the same way. This cat is very unsettled and the
> owner needs to build up trust with him.
>  Alison

Quite possibly, which is why it was offered as ONE option with the caveat
that without knowing the cat, or its motivations, it's rather hard to
determine a course of action. I also stated quite plainly that if the biting
was due to aggression and a correction made the cat more aggressive
(something the owner should know, and did, according to a follow-up post)
that a correction was NOT the way to go.

The main principles of behaviorism (all of them, even the parts that are
negative, such as punishment) are applicable to all animals: cats, dogs,
people, horses, dolphins, and so on. It's the actual tools used that vary. A
trainer who insists that one method works for all creatures is a very limited
trainer. Some dogs need corrections. Others should NEVER be corrected. It
depends on their personality. The same goes for cats. The type of motivators
depend on the animal as well. Some animals love food. Others do better with
toys or even just verbal praise and petting. I have yet to meet a horse that
wasn't trained with negative reinforcement (pull on bit, horse stops,
pressure releases).

People seem to think punishment (or correction, or aversive, whatever word
you prefer) is a 4 letter word. It really isn't. Nor does it necessarily
induce fear (if it does, it's too harsh).
Example: Humans don't speed because they know if they get caught, they'll get
a ticket. Getting a ticket is punishment. Most humans are not overly afraid
of driving because they might get a ticket, though.
Another example: A dog pulls on the lead. He gets popped with the martingale
(or choker, or whatever). He stops pulling. Most dogs will not be afraid of
walking on lead after a correction, though. Some will - and for those,
corrections should not be used.
Last example: A cat bothers the Christmas tree. The cat gets squirted with
water. The cat stops bothering the tree. The cat is rarely afraid of the tree
or the room, however. (simplistic, obviously, and assuming the cat doesn't
like getting squirted and doesn't see who is doing the squirting)

Anyway, the solution to any problem is often so specific to the animal, its
personality, its environment, and so on, that we can only offer ideas. Only
the owner can know if any solution would actually work to help their problem
pet.

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Alison - 01 Dec 2004 23:02 GMT
> Quite possibly, which is why it was offered as ONE option with the caveat
> that without knowing the cat, or its motivations, it's rather hard to
> determine a course of action. >>>

Yes that true. >>I also stated quite plainly that if the biting
> was due to aggression and a correction made the cat more aggressive
> (something the owner should know, and did, according to a follow-up post)
> that a correction was NOT the way to go.>>

OK but biting *is* aggression and whether it is playing or not , it's
not a good idea to scruff a cat when it bites.

> The main principles of behaviorism (all of them, even the parts that are
> negative, such as punishment) are applicable to all animals: cats, dogs,
> people, horses, dolphins, and so on. It's the actual tools used that
vary.>>.

 The learning  theory is the same for all animals. It depends what
tools you use.  Clicker training is so successful with  most species.
But cats are different from dogs and horses,  because they are pack
and herd animals and more likely to accept being controlled. This is
one reason why they are trainable and cats more difficult to train .
The social part of the brain is smaller in the cat than the dog,
despite the fact domestic cats can live sucessfully in colonies, they
don't really pack or have a true hieraerchy. If they are confronted
with any aggression or punishment they tend to  fight, freeze or flee.

> trainer who insists that one method works for all creatures is a very limited
> trainer. Some dogs need corrections. Others should NEVER be corrected. It
> depends on their personality.>>>

For dogs , maybe It depends on the correction. Correction doesn't
always mean tools are used. A simple ack for dogs or psst for cats
can be used .

> Last example: A cat bothers the Christmas tree. The cat gets
squirted with
> water. The cat stops bothering the tree.>>
>> The cat is rarely afraid of the tree
> or the room, however. (simplistic, obviously, and assuming the cat doesn't
> like getting squirted and doesn't see who is doing the squirting)>>

 Your'e assuming a lot here , every cat is different and reacts
differently. How many posts have you read here people have said I've
tried the squirt bottle and it doesn't work?
Some cats might just carry on when you are not in the room . It needs
to be "an act of God " and I think with squirting you have to be quite
close to the cat and that's hard to do with out him knowing. Some cats
might avoid the tree or room but my main worry is that the cat will be
frightened of the owner  or lose trust in him or her.
A cat climbing is a normal behaviour , he doesn't know that climbing a
Christmas tree is "wrong ", after all he's allowed to climb cat trees
etc , he's doing something enjoyable and all of a sudden someone whom
he trusts and he loves does something  nasty and unpleasant and he has
no idea why. He  would be bewildered and confused and find his owner
unpredictable.
Imagine how you would feel if you were doing something, say you were
out walking your dog and you walked on part of someone's property with
out realising and they started yelling and throwing water at you ,
what would you think and what would you do?

The dog world is changing, biologists and behaviourist are moving
away from the dogs are wolves theory, alpha rolls have tended to be
ineffective and can lead to aggression and more humane methods of
training are being used.  The cat world  is beginning to change too
but not as fast.Why does the spray have to be the first resort instead
of the last ? Cats are cats and they don't deserve to be treated in
this way,
I've noticed a positive change on this group in the four and a half
years I've been posting here, more people seem to be coming up with
ideas on how to train cats with out using water or scruffing which is
good to see. I think we need to encourage people looking for help to
use postive methods and be very cautious in our advice or we could do
more harm than good. I sorry to bang on about this but I really feel
very strongly about it.
Alison:)

> --
> ~kaeli~
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
> http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
Tracy - 03 Dec 2004 04:14 GMT
I'm generally an advocate of the time-out. Especially with a generally
friendly and sociable cat. Say "owwww", look distressed, leave the
room immediately and close the door. If the cat follows you out,
confine the cat in the new room. Give it 10 minutes or so and then
open the door with no further incident and act normal. Do exactly the
same thing every time the cat bites. He'll put 2 and 2 together sooner
or later and realize that biting the human leads to nothing good.
 
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