Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / November 2004
How Much to Feed Cat?
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Ruby Tuesday - 22 Nov 2004 20:53 GMT I usually give Mico one half of a tuna sized can of food a day. Lately he's been eating it all, and then wanting more. Mico is almost one and a half years old, and is Siamese. I don't want him to become obese. Due to hunger he's taken to ugly habits like licking the floor when there's no more food left. Ugh. Should I feed him more? What is 'normal' for a cat like him?
Thanks in advance,
- Ruby Tuesday
I.P.Freely - 22 Nov 2004 21:05 GMT > I usually give Mico one half of a tuna sized can of food a day. Lately he's > been eating it all, and then wanting more. Mico is almost one and a half > years old, and is Siamese. I don't want him to become obese. Due to hunger > he's taken to ugly habits like licking the floor when there's no more food > left. Ugh. Should I feed him more? What is 'normal' for a cat like him? When mine were on tinned food they used to get a tin each a day & were still hungry. I've been feeding scienceplan dried food for the last 10 or so years and just leave a bowl out for them to help themselves.
Initially they binged because I assume they were used to eating food while it was there when I fed them twice a day but quickly they realised that there would always be food when they were peckish and just nibbled all through the day. Unlike dogs, cats are able to excercise self control and not eat everything within their line of sight and therefore shoud not really get obese.
Of course there are rare exceptions but it also depends on what they are fed, high fat human food might taste nice and be cute to feed them but is basically bad for them. If you feed a good quality dried food and leave it available all the time your cat shoud not need to binge and will eat to suit.
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Monique Y. Mudama - 22 Nov 2004 21:19 GMT >> I usually give Mico one half of a tuna sized can of food a day. Lately > he's [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > not eat everything within their line of sight and therefore shoud not really > get obese. Hey now, watch the gross generalizations! My dog "grazed" for his entire life. The bowl of food was always there for him, but he tended to only eat when we were eating. It probably helped that he had no other dogs to contend with for food.
Anyway, I also leave dry food out for my cat. I think most animals can handle this sort of approach, especially if they become accustomed to it while young. I use Nutro Natural Choice, as an aside, because it seems to produce the least noxious litterbox offerings.
> Of course there are rare exceptions but it also depends on what they are > fed, high fat human food might taste nice and be cute to feed them but is > basically bad for them. If you feed a good quality dried food and leave it > available all the time your cat shoud not need to binge and will eat to > suit.
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kaeli - 22 Nov 2004 21:43 GMT > Initially they binged because I assume they were used to eating food while > it was there when I fed them twice a day but quickly they realised that > there would always be food when they were peckish and just nibbled all > through the day. Unlike dogs, cats are able to excercise self control and > not eat everything within their line of sight and therefore shoud not really > get obese. Many cats cannot be free-fed and will overeat, especially cats that are indoors all day. They eat out of boredom, just like many people. America's pets have an obesity problem much like their humans these days - cats included. Indoor-only cats have a much higher obesity problem when free-fed than indoor/outdoor, at least from what I've seen and read. I have yet to have a free-fed indoor-only cat that *wasn't* at least chubby. The barn cats, however, are free-fed and quite trim.
Many dogs can be free-fed and NOT be obese. I've had some that could be and some that had to be portioned. Some breeds are notorious for having to be portioned, such as labs and beagels. My GSD was free-fed, yet slightly underweight, her whole life. Dogs with a high food drive cannot be free-fed.
> If you feed a good quality dried food and leave it > available all the time your cat shoud not need to binge and will eat to > suit. They don't just eat when they're hungry. Neither do most humans. And cats can have very low thirst drives. Eating nothing but dry food is a known risk factor in having kidney problems later in life because of chronic dehydration. Some cats will drink plenty to make up for the lack of water in their food. Others will not. If a cat doesn't drink enough, their urine gets too concentrated and they can develop stones, infections, and be constipated. So if you choose to free-feed, be aware of how much your cat drinks. If it isn't enough, you NEED to add wet. A cat's natural diet consists of all the water they need, so in the wild, they wouldn't need to drink at all.
If I had known this earlier in my life, I really think I wouldn't have lost the cats I lost at early ages due to bladder and kidney problems. We always free-fed dry, too. I now feed a combo of portioned dry in the morning and wet at night. (If they'd eat decent quality wet food, I'd only feed them that.)
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Monique Y. Mudama - 22 Nov 2004 22:03 GMT > They don't just eat when they're hungry. Neither do most humans. I still haven't figured out how Oscar is more than skin and bones, since she seems to eat one kibble at a time. She never parks herself at the bowl and just eats. Maybe she read somewhere that many small meals are better than 2-3 large ones? Still, one kibble at a time ... it's just weird. She seems to drink more often than she eats.
Of course, she deals with tuna entirely differently!
> And cats can have very low thirst drives. Eating nothing but dry food > is a known risk factor in having kidney problems later in life because [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > the morning and wet at night. (If they'd eat decent quality wet food, > I'd only feed them that.) I didn't know this. As with human care, it seems that good advice for one goal conflicts with good advice for another goal. Isn't constant wet food bad for their teeth?
(Oscar eats entirely dry food except for a small portion of the can when I'm having tuna, and her breath is daisy-fresh! Well, maybe not daisy, but it's not smelly at all.)
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Ruby Tuesday - 22 Nov 2004 22:15 GMT > I didn't know this. As with human care, it seems that good advice for one > goal conflicts with good advice for another goal. Isn't constant wet food bad > for their teeth? I don't know about that, but I *do* know that dry food is bad for them period, according to this article: http://www.catsincanada.com/articles/feeding.html
- Ruby Tuesday
Monique Y. Mudama - 22 Nov 2004 23:10 GMT >> I didn't know this. As with human care, it seems that good advice for one >> goal conflicts with good advice for another goal. Isn't constant wet food [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > - Ruby Tuesday Interesting. It makes some intuitive sense, but I'm reluctant to believe anything I see based on only one opinion (not that sheer volume of opinion guarantees accuracy, either!).
I'm trying to find more such opinions online, without much luck. Can't seem to find the right search criteria.
Oscar is also getting some shots in a week; I can ask our vet what she thinks then. (Not that vets and doctors can't be wrong! We talked to a doctor while Eric was in the hospital who had "never heard of" cat saliva being involved in cat allergies, and gave us that condescending "I'll humor your silly layman's ideas" look that I really, really hate.)
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Steve Crane - 24 Nov 2004 15:47 GMT > I don't know about that, but I *do* know that dry food is bad for them > period, according to this article: > http://www.catsincanada.com/articles/feeding.html > > - Ruby Tuesday Dry food is not "bad" for cats - such a claim is utter nonsense and totally unsupported anywhere in the literature. Neither are canned foods "bad" for cats either. Current hysterical carbo-phobic claims not withstanding. Every one of the individuals currently pushing carbo-phobia in pet foods have consistently failed to answer the biggest question of all. Feeding canned foods, particularly some of the ones currently on the market, _vastly_ increases the intake of calcium and phosphorus. Take Pro Plan Adult Ocean Fish & Crab Entree for an example. Here's a zero carbohydrate food - perfect for the carbo-phobics. What happens when you take away energy provided by carbohydrates and substitute energy provided by fats and proteins? In almost every case the levels of various minerals _greatly_ increase. The Pro Plan product is typical example. Calcium at a whopping 2.72%, phosphorus at a whopping 2.07% DMB. Way in excess of what even a grwoing kittens needs, much less an adult.
The carbo-phobics consistently ignore the number two killer of cats in this country - renal failure. Nobody can determine which cat will die from this disease. Nobody has a crystal ball capable of determining which kitty will be the next victim. Unfortunately we cannot tell if a cat has renal failure until 70+% of the kidney is destroyed and the cat is on a uninterruptable spiral to death. Feeding a diet with phos levels as high as the majority of the carbo-phobics preferred diets, to a cat with undetected sub clinical renal failure would unquestionably speed that cat toward death. What would happen to the cat population which contains literally thousands upon thousands of cats with currently undetected sub clinical renal failure, if we suddenly dumped all these cats on the carbo-phobics diet plan?
This is the hard question that the carbo-phobics never want to answer. If the current crop of hyperbolic carbo-phobics at least had the common sense to caution prospective cat owners of the dangers involved it would be one thing. If that had the common sense to at least caution pet owners with older cats to check phos levels in a diet it would be one thing. But instead they launch off on a hyperbolic fantasy trip and alledge, without any proof whatsoever, that every disease known to cats is the result of feeding a carbohydrate based diet. An allegation for which they have zero clinical trials or peer reviewed published data to support.
The website you quoted is typical example of carbo-phobia hysterics. Below are a few errors from the website.
"Cats have a physiological decrease in the ability to utilize carbohydrates due to the lack of specific enzymatic pathways that are present in other mammals, and the lack a salivary enzyme called amylase."
Nonsense cats can and do utilize carbohydrates quite well. Cows lack salivary amylase as well following this nonsensical logic cows must also eat a meat diet. While not recommended, cats can and do survive quite well on a pure vegetarian diet. UC Davis currently has a colony of cats that have survived quite well for generations on a corn gluten based diet without any meat of any kind for many years.
"Diabetes: "Diabetes is a very serious - and difficult to manage - disease that is very common in cats. Why is it so common? The species-inappropriate high level of carbohydrates in dry food wreaks havoc on the blood sugar level of an obligate carnivore. The blood sugar level rises significantly upon ingestion of dry food. With chronic hyperglycemia (high blood sugar) the insulin producing cells in the pancreas down-regulate, or "burn out," leading to diabetes."
Again nonsense. Cats that already have diabetes may be better served with a low carb diet, or even a high fiber diet. There are lots of peer reviewed published data to support either method. To make the fantasy jump in logic that dry foods _cause_ diabetes is just plain nonsense. Using this same logic - cats with renal failure must eat a low phosphorus food, therefore high phosphorus _causes_ renal failure. The proof of this logical fault is as follows: "My father ate green peas as a child, he died of colon cancer at age 34, therefore green peas cause colon caner" While the first two parts of the argument are true, they in no way make the last part of the statement true.
About time for the legalese I suppose: While I have been an employee of Hill's Pet Nutrition for over 20 years, any comment I make here is my opinion and my opinion alone and should in no way be construed as representative of the company I work for. It is my opinion and my opinion alone.
Ruby Tuesday - 25 Nov 2004 01:51 GMT > > I don't know about that, but I *do* know that dry food is bad for them > > period, according to this article: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Dry food is not "bad" for cats - such a claim is utter nonsense [much interesting info snipped]
Thank you for your response, Steve. Unfortunately, when Mico gets his paws on dry food, he tends to focus in just on that, and the wet food goes to waste. He just does not naturally balance his intake. Which is the main reason why I've taken him off the dry.
IMHO, better he should have wet food, since he tends to leave his water dish alone. His litterbox is looking much healthier now that he's off the dry. His stools have more moisture in them. And he's getting good wet food: Science Diet and Wellness.
- Ruby Tuesday
Steve Crane - 27 Nov 2004 02:49 GMT > [much interesting info snipped] > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > - Ruby Tuesday Ruby, No problem - there is nothing wrong with feeding canned foods. There is good data to support feeding canend foods to any cat with cystitis, bladder stones etc. I'm not at all opposed to canned foods, I just hate to have people make choices based on nonsensical scaremongering.
Hodge - 29 Nov 2004 13:59 GMT > Unfortunately, when Mico gets his paws > on dry food, he tends to focus in just on that, and the wet food goes to > waste. He just does not naturally balance his intake. Which is the main > reason why I've taken him off the dry. I've taken to feeding Hodge canned in the morning and dry at night. (All canned and he has diarrhea; all dry and he's constipated.) So far, this seems to be working for him. (He can't free feed as my other cat did as he eats constantly and his weight balloons.)
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Monique Y. Mudama - 26 Nov 2004 05:09 GMT > Dry food is not "bad" for cats - such a claim is utter nonsense and > totally unsupported anywhere in the literature. Neither are canned foods > "bad" for cats either. Thanks for the info. Now I'm totally confused =P
I've been feeding Oscar Nutro Natural Choice dry food for quite a while. I've tried other brands, but this seems to make the litterbox the least unpleasant, which seems like as good a metric as any I can measure of my cat's health. She gets a bit of tuna whenever I open up a can for myself, and very occasionally she gets a little packet of wet cat food, but she doesn't seem all that impressed by the stuff.
It would be foolish for me to assume that my cat's needs align with my own, but I know that for me, many small meals are much more advantageous than 2-3 large meals. I don't gorge myself when I finally get to eat, I feel full on less food, I feel less lethargic, and I avoid the sugar highs and lows associated with eating lots of food at once. I see no reason why those benefits wouldn't translate to Oscar, despite her feline metabolism. She seems to be pretty happy with the "grazing" approach -- she eats three kibbles, then wanders off for a while.
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Karen Chuplis - 26 Nov 2004 05:34 GMT Just as a side note (I never wade clear through these food fights.) when I was growing up, we used to mix wet food with dry in a big pan and just dole it out. 50/50. I think, if I ever get to start with a kitten(s) again, I will start them on a mixture and never look back.
hamandcheese@betweentheknees.com - 26 Nov 2004 05:38 GMT > but this seems to make the litterbox the least unpleasant, >which seems like as good a metric as any I can measure of my cat's health. But who's to say what a good healthy dump should look and smell like?
I would use other metrics than that. -mhd
Phil P. - 26 Nov 2004 06:28 GMT > > Dry food is not "bad" for cats - such a claim is utter nonsense and > > totally unsupported anywhere in the literature. Neither are canned foods [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > but I know that for me, many small meals are much more advantageous than 2-3 > large meals. Free feeding (ad libitum) is not advantageous for many cats - especially males. Feeding releases bicarbonate which produces a postprandial alkaline tide that causes transient alkalinization of the urine. Feeding throughout the day protracts this alkaline tide and alkalinization of the urine which may promote struvite crystal formation > which could lead to a urinary tract obstruction in male cats and oliguric acute renal failure if not treated in time. In females, crystals can irritate and inflame the bladder wall leading to interstitial cystitis.
I don't gorge myself when I finally get to eat, I feel full on
> less food, I feel less lethargic, and I avoid the sugar highs and lows > associated with eating lots of food at once. I see no reason why those > benefits wouldn't translate to Oscar, despite her feline metabolism. Normal cats don't experience sugar highs and lows because they maintain a constant state of gluconeogenesis with only a slightly increased rate after feeding.
She
> seems to be pretty happy with the "grazing" approach -- she eats three > kibbles, then wanders off for a while. She would probably be better off on canned food - higher water intake and turnover than on dry food.
Phil
PawsForThought - 26 Nov 2004 12:58 GMT >From: "Monique Y. Mudama" spam@bounceswoosh.org
>> Dry food is not "bad" for cats - such a claim is utter nonsense and >> totally unsupported anywhere in the literature. Neither are canned >foods >> "bad" for cats either. > >Thanks for the info. Now I'm totally confused =P I think this article is very good on feline nutritional needs. Cats are not like us, as they are obligate carnivores with very specific needs:
http://www.catinfo.org/zorans_article.pdf
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Steve Crane - 29 Nov 2004 17:32 GMT > >From: "Monique Y. Mudama" spam@bounceswoosh.org > I think this article is very good on feline nutritional needs. Cats are not [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Lauren Dr. Zoran's article is quite good - but it is still nothing more than hypothesis. She may be right - she may be wrong. So far no clinical trials, clinical studies etc have been published or are underway that would prove the hypothesis correct.
And again the same big issue goes unanswered by both Drs. Zoran and other carbophobics. What would be the results of switching all cats to such a diet?
1. Since we know renal failure is the number 2 killer of all cats, and 2. We know that sub clinical renal failure can not be detected until 70+% of the kidney is already destroyed, and 3. We know that increased levels of phosphorus can reduce the lifespan of an affected kitty by half, and 4. Most "low carb" canned foods contain levels of phosphorus well above the maximum adult KNF of 0.9% for healthy adult cats and hugely more phosphorus than is appropriate for sub-clinical renal failrue kitties. Some such zero carb foods contain as much as 400-500% mroe phos than any renal diet.
Everything in moderation is a good axiom - and before one leaps off the closest cliff to chase the latest fad it is good idea to think a bit first.
GAUBSTER2 - 25 Nov 2004 15:57 GMT >From: "Ruby Tuesday" willow93@yahoo.com >Date: 11/22/04 2:15 PM Pacific Standard Time [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >period, according to this article: >http://www.catsincanada.com/articles/feeding.html Dry cat food is not "bad" per se. There is a certain segment of the population that is fanatical in their beliefs. Since most cats in the US are fed dry, wouldn't "most" cats in the US be sick?
jamie - 23 Nov 2004 02:37 GMT > I didn't know this. As with human care, it seems that good advice for one > goal conflicts with good advice for another goal. Isn't constant wet food bad > for their teeth? It used to be believed that dry food was better for their teeth (not that canned was bad for teeth), but that opinion didn't consider the fact that most cats either gobble dry without chewing, or chew it very little. Meanwhile, if they do chew, it's grain-based dry foods that tend to leave a starchy coating on teeth to cause plaque, while a low-carb canned leaves less debris in the mouth.
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kaeli - 23 Nov 2004 15:34 GMT > I didn't know this. As with human care, it seems that good advice for one > goal conflicts with good advice for another goal. Isn't constant wet food bad > for their teeth? Actually, new research is proving that idea completely wrong. Cats don't grind their food - they can't. Their jaws aren't hinged that way. So dry food doesn't do much for them, and it may even hurt because carbs are sugar in disguise (as any of the low-carb diets so popular these days can prove).
Proper care of cats should include a good dental regimen, anyway. No matter what they eat, most pet cats do not eat what feral cats eat - bones. They need their teeth cleaned by their humans. I brush my cats' teeth weekly.
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Hodge - 22 Nov 2004 22:32 GMT > Many cats cannot be free-fed and will overeat, especially cats that are > indoors all day. They eat out of boredom, just like many people. Pudge was free-fed and always watched her own weight. Hodge eats like he will never be fed again. Perhaps something happened to him to make him like that.
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Mary - 23 Nov 2004 00:21 GMT > > Many cats cannot be free-fed and will overeat, especially cats that are > > indoors all day. They eat out of boredom, just like many people. > > Pudge was free-fed and always watched her own weight. Hodge eats like he > will never be fed again. Perhaps something happened to him to make him > like that. Gnarly, former pregnant stray, free-fed for 20 years and stayed slim. Buddha, raised inside since kittenhood and spoiled rotten, is obese and cannot be free fed because she will eat the food until it is gone. Cheeky, former pregnant feral, is rail-thin and free-feeds. She eats very little canned food (I put 3 oz down in two feedings per day but she eats maybe half of that) but wolfs her dry food. I can't keep her up to 7.5 lbs most months. Go figure.
zuzu22@webtv.net - 23 Nov 2004 02:06 GMT >Cheeky, former pregnant feral, is >rail-thin and free-feeds. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I can't keep her up to 7.5 lbs most >months. Go figure. The reason Cheeky isn't eating more canned is because she's filled up on the dry by being allowed to snack all day. When you've been snacking all day on chips and whatever, my guess is eating a big dinner wouldn't be too appealing. If you eliminate dry food and get her on scheduled meals (every 12 hours) of a higher calorie canned food, she'll have the appetite, will finish the food and you may be able to get some weight on her. Innova in the red can is what I use to put weight on cats as it has a higher calorie and fat content so you don't need a lot to get the results you want.
Megan
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Mary - 23 Nov 2004 18:36 GMT > >Cheeky, former pregnant feral, is > >rail-thin and free-feeds. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > The reason Cheeky isn't eating more canned is because she's filled up on > the dry by being allowed to snack all day. Now that I think about it, this is probably true, especially since she seems to eat a LOT of the dry food.
When you've been snacking all
> day on chips and whatever, my guess is eating a big dinner wouldn't be > too appealing. If you eliminate dry food and get her on scheduled meals [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > a higher calorie and fat content so you don't need a lot to get the > results you want. Megan, I appreciate your input, and it may be a good idea. Here is why I hesitate. This is the cat with major allergies, EGC (presenting as linear granuloma usually, up the back of the legs) and asthma. When I last discussed changing their food, I purchased a bunch of better wet food (better than FF would be anything, but this was MaxCat, Nutro, and SD canned) to try on both cats. (Granted, ideally I would get them on Wellness or Innova or the one Lauren says she orders online, I forget its name. But the first step was breaking the habit of the FF which is the only kind they eat up with gusto.) At that time, Cheeks had miraculously gone from needing a Depo Medrol shot every two months to having one maybe twice a year. She had gone months with no asthma attacks and no lesions. Once I changed her food--just the wet, not the dry-- she began, after two weeks, developing little bumps all over and licking her fur off. I thought the licking was partly because she was upset at Boo coming upstairs a lot and settling into Cheeky's territory, but then I noticed the bumps. Since neither of the cats liked any of the new canned food I went back to FF. However, the bumps are still there and one side of Cheeks is almost entirely bald now.
Here is the thing: when I discussed the FF with the vet at her last checkup before changing the food, he told me he would not change her food, because of her allergies and the fact that she was doing so well. It looks like he was right. I supposed I could just experiment around with the wet food but understand that I love this little cat more than maybe anything. I don't want her so suffer for an instant. The other thing is, she LOVES this Purina tuna and salmon dry. She just picked at all other, better kinds. You know how it feels when you finally get a skinny little sickly cat eating with gusto? How can I take that away from her?
Sherry - 23 Nov 2004 22:52 GMT > You know how it >feels >when you finally get a skinny little sickly cat eating with gusto? How can I >take >that away from her? I know exactly how it feels. The most nutritionally superior food doesn't help any cat if they won't eat it. I mean "won't.". Bootsie will not eat what she doesn't like. Ever. It's so weird that she likes Purina Tuna & Salmon. Boots will actually eat that. She eats Pro Plan Salmon much better, and *sometimes* Fancy Feast. *Sometimes* Nutro canned.
Sherry
zuzu22@webtv.net - 24 Nov 2004 04:15 GMT >This is the cat with major allergies, EGC >(presenting as linear granuloma usually, >up the back of the legs) and asthma. What is she allergic to? Do you have specifics?
>When I last discussed >changing their food, I purchased a bunch >of better wet food (better than FF would >be anything, but this was MaxCat, Nutro, >and SD canned) to try on both cats.
> (Granted, ideally I would get them on > Wellness or Innova or the one Lauren [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > one side of Cheeks is almost entirely > bald now. How long has she been on this particular dry food? I read the ingredients and there are several that are known allergy triggers.
> Here is the thing: when I discussed the > FF with the vet at her last checkup > before changing the food, he told me he > would not change her food, because of > her allergies and the fact that she was > doing so well. What was she eating at the time?
>It looks like he was > right. I supposed I could just [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > take > that away from her? If it's bad for her you don't have much choice, plus there are probably other foods she will like that are better for her, and let's not forget that the *way* you feed her can make a huge difference in how much she likes her food. Email me with as much detail as you can about what's in the foods you are/were feeding and what her allergies are, etc. and let's see if we can figure this out. I really think getting her on a better quality food is going to help, and scheduled meals will be beneficial in getting her to eat better, but we need to figure out what her triggers are first so we can figure out what foods would be most appropriate to try.
Megan
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Mary - 24 Nov 2004 05:41 GMT > >This is the cat with major allergies, EGC > >(presenting as linear granuloma usually, > >up the back of the legs) and asthma. > > What is she allergic to? Do you have specifics? Perfume brings on asthma attacks, as do cleaning fumes. I have no idea what food allergies she may have, the vet just said allergies go hand in hand with asthma and the EGC is thought to be associated with allergies.
> How long has she been on this particular dry food? I read the > ingredients and there are several that are known allergy triggers. She has been eating Purina One tuna and salmon for about a year. Her first two years here I fed Iams and SD dry, plus the Iams wet food they fed her at the shelter and the FF. She just picked at the other dry food and barely touched the Iams canned. It was during her first few months on the Purina that she showed great improvement--e.g no asthma, no granuloma for months. The only other changes I made at that time were that I stopped wearing any perfume and stopped using a cleaning service I had been using. Now I clean my own house, w/o harsh chemicals or very well ventilated when I have to. (Oven cleaning and such.)
> > Here is the thing: when I discussed the > > FF with the vet at her last checkup [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > What was she eating at the time? Purina One tuna and salmon dry and FF Chopped Grill. Believe it or not. The vet agreed the FF sucks, but essentially said, "whatever works."
> If it's bad for her you don't have much choice, plus there are probably > other foods she will like that are better for her, and let's not forget > that the *way* you feed her can make a huge difference in how much she > likes her food. I hadn't thought about this. I'd love to hear more--others with skinny cats w/o much interest in food might benefit.
>Email me with as much detail as you can about what's in > the foods you are/were feeding and what her allergies are, etc. and > let's see if we can figure this out. You know, I was trying everything and anything. She was not on any one thing for very long. However--she had her worst symptoms of all when I first brought her home from the shelter, and they appear to have fed mostly Iams. I do remember that I switched from canned Iams to the fishy flaked flavors of FF, and she liked it okay UNTIL that fateful day when I began feeding FF chopped grill. Now she doesn't want any other flavor--and is not even interested in tuna when I open a can for myself.
>I really think getting her on a > better quality food is going to help, and scheduled meals will be > beneficial in getting her to eat better, but we need to figure out what > her triggers are first so we can figure out what foods would be most > appropriate to try. Well, I do feed each cat half a can of FF at 12 noon and 12 midnight. I would love to have them both eat better food. I'll try and remember what I was feeding her when she was at her worst--I think it was mostly Iams. She isn't really too skinny--see her below. The first is her shelter pic. In the fourth you can see where she was starting to lick her fur off, over her left haunch. (Last August when Boo had those fainting fits.) In the 13th you can see where she has kept her belly licked bald since before I got her. Remember how I said it looked like the spay shave never grew back? Now that I have seen what she has done to her side I can see that she has kept her belly bald since she had been with me--the backs of her legs and now her KNEES are also naked and pink as a baby bird now. Thanks for your help.
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PawsForThought - 24 Nov 2004 17:22 GMT >From: "Mary" crazyaboutfelines@yahoo.com
>> What is she allergic to? Do you have specifics? > >Perfume brings on asthma attacks, as do cleaning fumes. Mary, I feel your pain. My Meesha also has asthma. Fortunately, she's been doing really great on a protocol my vet has her on. One thing I did was to only use natural cleaners and try to keep the house as chemical free as possible. I bought one of those steamers for cleaning floors. I like it because it only uses steam and no chemicals. I also buy my cleaning supplies at a health food market and I read the labels to make sure they're as chemically free as possible. I use vinegar a lot for cleaning too.
You say Cheeks still has the bumps. In my mind, I'm thinking that even though she's eating the food, it may be the food that is causing, or at least contributing, to the bumps. I think it would be a really good idea to take Megan up on her offer and hopefully you can find a food that works for Cheeks.
Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecatjournal.com/articles/claws.htm
Mary - 25 Nov 2004 11:40 GMT > >From: "Mary" crazyaboutfelines@yahoo.com > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > at a health food market and I read the labels to make sure they're as > chemically free as possible. I use vinegar a lot for cleaning too. Thanks, Lauren. I find I can use stronger cleaners such as soapscum removers and bleach when need be as long as I keep the bathroom door closed and the fan on--and the cats out, of course.
> You say Cheeks still has the bumps. In my mind, I'm thinking that even though > she's eating the food, it may be the food that is causing, or at least > contributing, to the bumps. The vet says they may be a result of the actual process of licking her fur off. Bear in mind that she does not pull out her fur, she licks it off. That is a lot of licking!
Since she improved on the Purina (as opposed to the Iams and various other dry foods she had been on for two years) and had no obvious asthma symptoms (coughing, wheezing, that sort of thing) or granuloma for the first eight months she was on it, I do not think her dry food is contributing to the bumps. Now that Boo has settled down and is not coming into her "turf" a lot, I am hoping she will stop overgrooming. If she doesn't (e.g. if the fur has not begun to grow back in) soon I may think about changing her food. While it would be nice to have this little cat on a wet food only diet, I fear messing around with her diet too much when she seems healthy. As always, I appreciate your input.
Laila - 23 Nov 2004 00:58 GMT we feed Shaina one small can of wet food and have a bowl of dry for her to eat during the day. she also has water and i notice that she drinks enough. we used to give her 2-3 small cans/day and she didn't eat that much dry food, but we decided that it was too much food for her. she is 8 months old. is one small can enough in addition to free feeding dry food? she also helps herself to our food. i was eating a smoked salmon sandwich and she came over and started nibble on the bread that was left. i was still holding it. is it ok for them to have bread? today she came over to "share" a honey glazed donut. i gave her a little. i was wondering if carbs with sugar are ok for her, in very small quantities.
-L
Ruby Tuesday - 23 Nov 2004 01:51 GMT > we feed Shaina one small can of wet food and have a bowl of dry for I forgot to mention that dry is out - last time I had wet and dry out for Mico, he just gorged himself on the dry. Dry is not an option.
> her to eat during the day. she also has water and i notice that she > drinks enough. we used to give her 2-3 small cans/day and she didn't > eat that much dry food, but we decided that it was too much food for > her. she is 8 months old. is one small can enough in addition to > free feeding dry food? I would think so, IMHO.
she also helps herself to our food. i was
> eating a smoked salmon sandwich and she came over and started nibble > on the bread that was left. i was still holding it. is it ok for > them to have bread? today she came over to "share" a honey glazed > donut. i gave her a little. i was wondering if carbs with sugar are > ok for her, in very small quantities. I'm no expert, but I don't think it's a good idea to share people food with the cat. Let's see what others think of this.
- Ruby Tuesday
> -L kaeli - 23 Nov 2004 15:40 GMT > is it ok for > them to have bread? today she came over to "share" a honey glazed > donut. i gave her a little. i was wondering if carbs with sugar are > ok for her, in very small quantities. Carbs ARE sugar. That's what the body breaks them down into.
It depends on what you mean by "ok". It won't kill them. It might make them overweight, it might make them refuse their food, hoping for yours, it might make them hyper, etc. It's very dependent on the cat and how much you give them.
I rarely give my pets "people food" that isn't a natural food. They get left- over meat products(chicken, steak, etc) as long as it wasn't pre-packaged (too much sodium and crap in there). The dog also gets fresh veggies, such as raw carrots.
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Priscilla Ballou - 22 Nov 2004 23:00 GMT > > I usually give Mico one half of a tuna sized can of food a day. Lately > he's [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > available all the time your cat shoud not need to binge and will eat to > suit. One exception to this may be a former feral. My Sebbie, who was rescued at 3-4 months of age, still doesn't fully understand that another meal will be forthcoming and that each time I put food down isn't his last shot at eating. He had grown into a really "solid" build, to put it nicely.
Priscilla
 Signature "It is very, very dangerous to treat any human, lowest of the low even, with contempt and arrogant whatever. The Lord takes this kind of treatment very, very personal." - QBaal in newsgroup alt.religion.christian.episcopal
Phil P. - 23 Nov 2004 03:32 GMT > I usually give Mico one half of a tuna sized can of food a day. Lately he's > been eating it all, and then wanting more. Of course he wants more food; he's starving. He's only getting about 1/2 of his daily energy/nutrient requirements.
Mico is almost one and a half
> years old, and is Siamese. I don't want him to become obese. Due to hunger > he's taken to ugly habits like licking the floor when there's no more food > left. Ugh. Should I feed him more? What is 'normal' for a cat like him? Depends on his weight, activity level and sex status. For example, a moderately inactive, neutered, 4 kg cat has a daily energy requirement (DER) of about 180 kcals (~45 kcal/kg/day -- ~60 kcal/kg/day-intact cat).
I don't know which brand of food you're feeding him, so I'll use Science Diet Adult Turkey as an example: A 156 g can (5.5 oz "tuna can size") contains about 174 kcals. So, one can divided into two feedings a day should be just about right.
There's a more precise formula for calculating the amount of food to feed that involves adding the kcals/gram of protein, carbs and fat to get the caloric density of the food, then dividing that sum by the cat's DER. But that level of accuracy is rarely necessary for normal feeding.
Phil
Ruby Tuesday - 23 Nov 2004 06:54 GMT > > I usually give Mico one half of a tuna sized can of food a day. Lately > he's [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > contains about 174 kcals. So, one can divided into two feedings a day > should be just about right. That settles it, then. This is the kind of answer I've been looking for. Thank you.
- Ruby Tuesday
> There's a more precise formula for calculating the amount of food to feed > that involves adding the kcals/gram of protein, carbs and fat to get the > caloric density of the food, then dividing that sum by the cat's DER. But > that level of accuracy is rarely necessary for normal feeding. > > Phil Dick Peavey - 24 Nov 2004 12:40 GMT >> > I usually give Mico one half of a tuna sized can of food a day. >> > Lately [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > - Ruby Tuesday Squeaky eats about 1 to 1-1/3 5.5 oz cans a day, naturally it seems to me. When I first adopted him he was starved and ate as if there would never be food again. As his reassurance grew he settled down to a normal pace for him, about what Phil says.
-- Dick
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