Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / November 2004
I'll keep my fingers crossed in hopes cat isn't diabetic
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Paul O. - 13 Nov 2004 20:53 GMT Took Dufus in this morning for his wellness check and dental. His liver is better, still feeding Renal HP, but now something is up with the kidneys. Sugar was 214. Vet is flushing out kidneys and is going to do a more comprehensive blood test and send it to a lab. Not ready yet to diagnose diabetes, so here's hoping. May know more at 4:30 when we pick him up. If a cat is diabetic how often do you have to check blood sugar? During the week we aren't home all day. Oh well, won't start worrying too much yet, yeh, right. Hopefully it's something else not as serious.
 Signature Paul O. Absolutely clueless when it comes to cats Learning more every day, but still clueless oplholik@hotmail.com
Karen Chuplis - 13 Nov 2004 22:28 GMT > Took Dufus in this morning for his wellness check and dental. His liver is > better, still feeding Renal HP, but now something is up with the kidneys. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > we aren't home all day. Oh well, won't start worrying too much yet, yeh, > right. Hopefully it's something else not as serious. I hope not! I know stress can cause it to rise. How old is Dufus again?
Paul O. - 13 Nov 2004 22:38 GMT >> Took Dufus in this morning for his wellness check and dental. His liver >> is [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I hope not! I know stress can cause it to rise. How old is Dufus again? He is about 5yrs. old. I don't know what he could be stressed about, he didn't know he was going to the vet beforehand. :-) Course I had to take food away at 8:00pm last nite and he wasn't too happy bout that.
 Signature Paul O. Absolutely clueless when it comes to cats Learning more every day, but still clueless oplholik@hotmail.com
Larry - 14 Nov 2004 01:09 GMT % is relatively young for FD. Has Drufus been on steroids since that can induce FD, sometimes that is temporary. 241 is not that high and might be due to stress. Does he have the other FD symptoms of eating , drinking and peeing a lot? If he has FD some people measure the blood glucose right before each shot and do curves of taking measurements every 2 hours occasionally. I have 3 FD kitties.
 Signature Larry - Owned by eight cats
> Took Dufus in this morning for his wellness check and dental. His liver is > better, still feeding Renal HP, but now something is up with the kidneys. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > we aren't home all day. Oh well, won't start worrying too much yet, yeh, > right. Hopefully it's something else not as serious. Paul O. - 14 Nov 2004 02:08 GMT >% is relatively young for FD. Has Drufus been on steroids since that can > induce FD, sometimes that is temporary. 241 is not that high and might [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > before each shot and do curves of taking measurements every 2 hours > occasionally. I have 3 FD kitties. Just returned from picking up the cat. Vet says likely diabetes, but won't know for sure till blood tests come back Monday. Didn't seem to be any indication a couple months ago when he was at the vet tho. He hasn't been on any meds lately. If it is diabetes, it doesn't sound to bad to take care of. Vet says there is an insulin just for cats now, cost about $60 for about a years supply, and one shot a day. Will re check in 3 weeks to see if it was just a temporary thing, since he flushed his kidneys, before starting any medication.
 Signature Paul O. Absolutely clueless when it comes to cats Learning more every day, but still clueless oplholik@hotmail.com
Chris - 14 Nov 2004 16:41 GMT There is a wondeful site for pets with diabetes... If you go thru it you will also find some pretty good message boards... they were VERY helpful a few months ago when my parents' dog was diagnosed with diabetes...
http://www.petdiabetes.org/
>>% is relatively young for FD. Has Drufus been on steroids since that can >> induce FD, sometimes that is temporary. 241 is not that high and might [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > see if it was just a temporary thing, since he flushed his kidneys, before > starting any medication. Paul O. - 14 Nov 2004 18:45 GMT > There is a wondeful site for pets with diabetes... If you go thru it you > will also find some pretty good message boards... they were VERY helpful a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Thanks, saved the link.  Signature Paul O. Absolutely clueless when it comes to cats Learning more every day, but still clueless oplholik@hotmail.com
mbk@webtv.net - 14 Nov 2004 17:13 GMT Paul, Please find out what the name of the insulin is and post it here. I pay $53 for a 100 unit bottle of Lantus(glargine) each month. The worst part is that I only give Sandy 1 unit per day and then at the end of the month have to throw out the remaining 70 units. Lantus is working better for her then the Humlin so if that is what I have to do, so be it. But if there is something less expensive that works just as well I would like to tell my vet about it.
A word of warning to you, if your cat also has high blood pressure the combination of the 2 can cause blindness. Unfortunately that is what happened to Sandy about 2 months post diagnose of her diabetes. She has been taking Norvasc for 2 years for hi BP but the 2 conditions combined caused her retinas to detach. I will admit that she adjusted much faster than I did.
Michele, (N.C.)
Paul O. - 14 Nov 2004 18:49 GMT > Paul, > Please find out what the name of the insulin is and post it here. I pay [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Michele, > (N.C.) I will find out what the insulin is. Should be talking to the vet tomorrow after the blood test comes back. Don't think the cat has high blood pressure, nothing was mentioned about that.
 Signature Paul O. Absolutely clueless when it comes to cats Learning more every day, but still clueless oplholik@hotmail.com
mpwilliams - 14 Nov 2004 19:39 GMT [snip]
> I will find out what the insulin is. Should be talking to the vet tomorrow > after the blood test comes back. [snip]
Does your cat present the primary clinical indicators for diabetes ... viz., unquenchable thirst and frequent urination in large volumes?
Paul O. - 14 Nov 2004 23:28 GMT > [snip] >> I will find out what the insulin is. Should be talking to the vet [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Does your cat present the primary clinical indicators for diabetes ... > viz., unquenchable thirst and frequent urination in large volumes?
>I haven't noticed anything unusual in the litter box. Not drinking any more >water than usual. With the moisture out of the wet food, he doesn't drink >much water out of the bowl.  Signature Paul O. Absolutely clueless when it comes to cats Learning more every day, but still clueless oplholik@hotmail.com
Rhonda - 15 Nov 2004 03:53 GMT I'd be interested to hear the diagnosis on your cat. When ours developed diabetes, he absolutely soaked the litter box. Took me awhile to find out which cat had the problem.
You might want to start posting on the message board at www.felinediabetes.com. Tell them what you know so far and they will probably have some good insights.
Rhonda
>>I haven't noticed anything unusual in the litter box. Not drinking any more >>water than usual. With the moisture out of the wet food, he doesn't drink >>much water out of the bowl. Marek Williams - 15 Nov 2004 07:18 GMT >Please find out what the name of the insulin is and post it here. I pay >$53 for a 100 unit bottle of Lantus(glargine) each month. The worst part [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >if there is something less expensive that works just as well I would >like to tell my vet about it. Does the Lantus go bad that fast? Human insulin lasts for ages, so that surprises me.
-- Bogus e-mail address, but I read this newsgroup regularly, so reply here.
Larry - 14 Nov 2004 23:48 GMT I know of no insulin that usually works with one shot a day. Almost all kitties need two shot daily. There are two insulins for kitties in USA. One is beef PZI and there is 10% pork/90% beef. Only one vendor for the pork/beef and a few for the all beef. The $60 insulin sounds like Lantus based on price but many kitties still need two shots daily. It can last 1 year if dose is small. For the Lantus there are 1000 units in a vial. So it could last a year if dose is 3 units per day. Myself, I use insulin until bottle is empty or it stops working. So far I have used up vials of Humilin U and beef PZI.
Also go to the feline diabetes message board at http://www.felinediabetes.com/ for information/help. Good luck.
 Signature Larry - Owned by eight cats
> > >% is relatively young for FD. Has Drufus been on steroids since that can [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > years supply, and one shot a day. Will re check in 3 weeks to see if it was > just a temporary thing, since he flushed his kidneys, before starting any
> medication. mbk@webtv.net - 15 Nov 2004 00:44 GMT
<<<From: Larry I know of no insulin that usually works with one shot a day. Almost all kitties need two shot daily. There are two insulins for kitties in USA. One is beef PZI and there is 10% pork/90% beef. Only one vendor for the pork/beef and a few for the all beef. The $60 insulin sounds like Lantus based on price but many kitties still need two shots daily. It can last 1 year if dose is small. For the Lantus there are 1000 units in a vial. So it could last a year if dose is 3 units per day.>>>
Larry, I just checked my vial of Lantus and it says 100 units. It also says to discard after 28 days. I would love to be able to use it all up since Sandy only gets 1 unit a day but how do I know if I'm hurting her just to save some money? She has been on it since August and is doing well. If I try to use it past the 28 days how do I know if it is still working for her?
Just a little background on her: both her regular vet and her holistic vet have said that she doesn't respond to treatment the way she is supposed to. When she was getting the Humlin, 1 unit was too little but 2 units was too much. Before starting the Lantus her glucose curve test would start real low then halfway through would double from 1 hour to the next then proceed to rise higher.
I am owned by 7 cats and I need to save money wherever I can but I want to do whatever is best for them. Costco charges $53 for Lantus but other pharmacies range between $60-$65. Also you don't have to be a member to use the pharmacy.
Michele, (N.C.)
Rhonda - 15 Nov 2004 03:50 GMT Hi Michele,
I'm not Larry, I don't think :) but we had a diabetic cat. I'd advise you to talk to the pharmacist about insulin duration. They really have a lot of info.
Mine told me you can use it longer if you use a clean needle each time. Some people use a syringe more than once on their cats. We were using Humulin, so I don't know if it's different for Lantus, but he said the danger was not so much the insulin expiring, but it becoming contaminated, so advised us to use new syringes.
Rhonda
> Larry, > I just checked my vial of Lantus and it says 100 units. It also says to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > try to use it past the 28 days how do I know if it is still working for > her? mbk@webtv.net - 16 Nov 2004 00:04 GMT Rhonda, What you said makes a lot of sense. I always use a fresh needle just like I do when I give SubQ's to 4 of my cats. I did ask the pharmacist but she just read the insert and said 28 days.
I wish I could find out for sure since I don't want to cause any damage to Sandy.
Michele (N.C.)
mpwilliams - 15 Nov 2004 02:09 GMT >I know of no insulin that usually works with one shot a day. Almost all > kitties need two shot daily. There are two insulins for kitties in USA. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > until bottle is empty or it stops working. So far I have used up vials of > Humilin U and beef PZI. We have a diabetic male, and have been able to control his blood glucose in the range of 150-350 mg/dL with one (1) daily 7-unit injection of Lilly Humulin U, which we purchase in a 10 ml vial (1000 units @ 100 units/ml) for about US$ 28, and discard after 60 days. In this range of control, his clinical indications (drinking and urination) are near normal.
Incidentally, for purchases in the US, Bayer currently have a US$ 45 rebate offer on the Ascensia Elite XL glucometer, which retails for US$ 52-65. The offer also includes two (2) US$ 10 coupons for the test strips. From what research I've done, this particular glucometer is particularly well suited to use in monitoring felines, as the test strip will wick the sample directly and requires only 2 microliters for a test. Ours works great.
mbk@webtv.net - 14 Nov 2004 19:35 GMT Paul, When you take Dufus in tomorrow be sure to ask the vet if his BP was measured. Then have it done periodically just to be on the safe side.
As to your question about testing the BG I don't do that at home yet. There is suppose to be a new machine, PetTrac DC1000 coming out soon (www.pettrac.us). It is completely non-invasive, results in 15 seconds, no pain, & unlimited daily testing. It uses "near-infrared" technology rather than test strips and needles. It should cost around $350. I called the company in August and told them to put me on their waiting list but have not heard back from them yet. One of my vets found out about them at a conference she attended. If it does all that it claims it will be a definite advancement.
Michele
Priscilla Ballou - 14 Nov 2004 19:59 GMT > Paul, > When you take Dufus in tomorrow be sure to ask the vet if his BP was [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > about them at a conference she attended. If it does all that it claims > it will be a definite advancement. If it did all you mention above, I would have expected to hear about it on the diabetes newsgroups. Human diabetics don't have anything like that -- that works. I greatly doubt they're developing these for cats before they do for people.
Priscilla
mbk@webtv.net - 14 Nov 2004 21:38 GMT <<< a new machine, PetTrac DC1000 coming out soon (www.pettrac.us). It is completely non-invasive, results in 15 seconds, no pain, & unlimited daily testing. It uses "near-infrared" technology rather than test strips and needles. It should cost around $350. I called the company in August and told them to put me on their waiting list but have not heard back from them yet. One of my vets found out about them at a conference she attended. If it does all that it claims it will be a definite advancement.>>> <<<<If it did all you mention above, I would have expected to hear about it on the diabetes newsgroups. Human diabetics don't have anything like that -- that works. I greatly doubt they're developing these for cats before they do for people. Priscilla>>>>
Priscilla, I hope that the information my vet received is accurate. She gave me a copy of the brochure she got from the conference she attended. Instead of needles and test strips you attach an ear clip. When I called in August they said the meters were not quite ready for public distribution yet but would be within a few months.
Although I give subQ's and insulin shots to my cats I have watched the vet techs test Sandy and I would be very hesitant to test her myself. That's why I'm hoping this is what it says it is going to be.
I was surprised that I got no response when I mentioned it on the diabetes newsgroup that I joined when she was diagnosed. I admit that it does sound too good to be true.
I can assure you that when it does come out (if it does) I will only purchase it if it has a guarantee and I will have my vet check it out too. For Sandy's sake I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it is the real thing.
Michele (N.C.)
Larry - 15 Nov 2004 00:27 GMT Earlier this month I was reading a human diabetes magazine and they had an article on the non-evasive blood glucose monitors. There are several vendors working on them and in one country there are trial going on. They might be available next year. However, for humans the cost is comparable with the present method of using a meter with test strips.
 Signature Larry - Owned by eight cats
> <<< a new machine, PetTrac DC1000 coming out soon (www.pettrac.us). It > is completely non-invasive, results in 15 seconds, no pain, & unlimited [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > Michele > (N.C.)
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