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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / October 2004Two Feral Cats
I recently started working in a place where I frequently see two obviously feral cats in the back parking lot. They are both adults, all white, beautiful cats, but a little skinny, and kinda mangy, but they look in good health otherwise prbably siblings. The parking lot abuts a fiels with trees and tall grass (and some debris), it's at least a half mile long and several hundred feet wide. One of the cats is missing an eye and it wasn't done surgically. It's a messy, bloody, scabby wound. I can't really tell that it's in any discomfort or not, but it seems a recent wound. I've only been working here a month but the cmpany moved here around 18 mos ago and the cats were here then too. Someone else in the building set up a dry bed for them behind the dumpster and is feeding them. I would never bring them home as I have kittens who would probably be hurt or infected by adult ferals. These are my choices: Do nothing. These cats have been here at least a year and a half. Maybe much longer, and are still kicking. They must be doing something right. Someone made them a bed and is feeding them. They have ample place to hunt and play in the field which abut parking lots and back yards. The downfall, it is very close to the Sials Deane Highway, a busy Connecticut retail road with lots of traffic, also, I'm not sure what Kinda shape ol' 'one eye" is in. If that eye gets infected he may die. For all anyone knows, they barely lived through a rough CT winter last year and maybe can't last another. My other choice is to call the animal hospital down the street or the Humane Society to come catch them. They will then be cared for someplace warm, be well fed by nice people and may get adopted. More likely they will be euthanized, or at least the one missing an eye. What would you do? > I recently started working in a place where I frequently see two > obviously feral cats in the back parking lot. <snip> > What would you do? If they are friendly with people, find out if any local no-kill rescues would be willing to take on these kitties. They may be willing to take them in especially because of the injured one. If they are not friendly with people, I'd contact the local animal shelter to see if a vet would treat them as ferals to be re-released (and put out winter shelter - see below). The humane society may work with a vet who would do this. True ferals have very bad chances of getting adopted. There are a lot of friendly cats without homes. People choose those. Worse comes to worse (no one will take them or help them), I'd bring the one with only one eye in to the H.S. (or have them come get him) even if there was a chance he'd be euthanized. That injury must be terribly painful and is likely to get infected without treatment. I'd then put out a real shelter outside (they make dog houses for this) with hay in it and stuff for the other cat for the winter. If a shelter is done properly (raised off ground, hay and blankets for warmth, covered entrance, etc), the cat will be fine over the winter. My nickle, anyways.  Signature-- ~kaeli~ Synonym: the word you use in place of a word you can't spell. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace > > I recently started working in a place where I frequently see two > > obviously feral cats in the back parking lot. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > be willing to take on these kitties. They may be willing to take them in > especially because of the injured one. They are not eager to be near people, but do not run away that quick. Interestingly, near there shelter are signs of human interaction. Someone is putting out fresh water, leftovers from peoples lunches, and even a faded prescription bottle. I can read that it came from a vet, but everyhing else is too faded. > If they are not friendly with people, I'd contact the local animal shelter to > see if a vet would treat them as ferals to be re-released (and put out winter [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > was a chance he'd be euthanized. That injury must be terribly painful and is > likely to get infected without treatment. According to my co-workers the cat has had the injury as long as my company has been here, over 18 mos. > I'd then put out a real shelter outside (they make dog houses for this) with > hay in it and stuff for the other cat for the winter. If a shelter is done > properly (raised off ground, hay and blankets for warmth, covered entrance, > etc), the cat will be fine over the winter. The shelter that's there is a plastic garbage can on it's side with the lid duct taped on, and an access hole in the lid. It's not off the ground, but situated on a hill in such a way as to prevent rain from entering. > My nickle, anyways. > > -- > > Worse comes to worse (no one will take them or help them), I'd bring the one > > with only one eye in to the H.S. (or have them come get him) even if there [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > According to my co-workers the cat has had the injury as long as my > company has been here, over 18 mos. Oh, for some reason it sounded fresh. From what you've said, then, unless you can find a no-kill shelter to help them, I'd just keep making sure they had what they needed and leave them be. I'd bring a couple old blankets out and stuff to put in the shelter and stuff. Make sure the water doesn't freeze in the winter, etc. > The shelter that's there is a plastic garbage can on it's side with > the lid duct taped on, and an access hole in the lid. It's not off the > ground, but situated on a hill in such a way as to prevent rain from > entering. Not the best, but I don't know how cold it gets by you. And if they've been fine for 18 months, well, unless someone gets pissy about it, they're probably going to stay there. I'd be tempted to bring them home myself, but knowing how I don't have room and all, I'd probably just visit them every day and do what I could to make them more comfortable. Perhaps over time they will learn to like humans and get a nice home. At least they can be warm, fed, and loved a little, anyways. Good luck with whatever you decide. Signature-- ~kaeli~ Practice safe eating - always use condiments. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace > > > Worse comes to worse (no one will take them or help them), I'd bring the one > > > with only one eye in to the H.S. (or have them come get him) even if there [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I'd bring a couple old blankets out and stuff to put in the shelter and > stuff. Make sure the water doesn't freeze in the winter, etc. I have a call in to the closest Humane Society and a nearby "no-kill" shelter, but so far no call backs. Unfortunately, these places tend to be staffed by volunteers who can work sparse hours. I've also found out from building management that these cats are part of a colony of ferals, many of whom were rescued or relocated last year. These are the only two I've seen so far. She also thinks that the folks who work at the Stop & Shop next door are feeding them and giving them water. And upon further investigation, there is another, well built, larger shelter, farther back in the brush, complete with blankets. There are also several water dishes and some food dishes. Furthermore, the store's dumpster seems to act as a 'feeding trough' there are alway edible food packages coneniently left out of the dumpster. > > The shelter that's there is a plastic garbage can on it's side with > > the lid duct taped on, and an access hole in the lid. It's not off the > > ground, but situated on a hill in such a way as to prevent rain from > > entering. > > Not the best, but I don't know how cold it gets by you. It can get very cold, sometimes below zero. > And if they've been fine for 18 months, well, unless someone gets pissy about > it, they're probably going to stay there. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Good luck with whatever you decide. I did leve some treats in the shelter and they disappeared fairly quick. Unfortunately, I got my closest look at 'one-eye' last night. She needs help. Her eye is clearly infected. Not only missing, but that side of her face is swollen. She isn't crying in pain, and does cat like things like grooming herself, playing, stalking, etc, but it has to be hurting her. I will wait to hear from the people I've called and try not to otherwise interfere to much with their routine. I will give them some food, but it looks like they are being fed. Thank you Kaeli, for your well thought out advice. > -- > Thank you Kaeli, for your well thought out advice. > > > > -- Kaeli's great. You however are still a jackass. > > Thank you Kaeli, for your well thought out advice. > > > > > > -- > > Kaeli's great. You however are still a jackass. And as usual, you are considerbly less than helpful. > > > Thank you Kaeli, for your well thought out advice. > > > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > And as usual, you are considerbly less than helpful. I have no desire to be helpful to you. However, I am anxiously awaiting your next scintillating question. I imagine it will be along the lines of "Duh, I saw a kitten on the median of a busy highway but I wasn't sure what the right thing to do was. Anyone have any suggestions?" > I did leve some treats in the shelter and they disappeared fairly > quick. Unfortunately, I got my closest look at 'one-eye' last night. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > and try not to otherwise interfere to much with their routine. I will > give them some food, but it looks like they are being fed. Will she come to you if you have food? If you take her to the vet as a stray, they'll most likely help her, even if it's to get in touch with the shelter themselves and work out what to do. She needs help ASAP. Many vets are kind-hearted and won't refuse to help a badly injured stray cat. Sometimes the techs even adopt them. You never know. See if you can entice her into a carrier and bring her in as a foundling. If it IS infected, she'll likely die without help. Not a nice death, either. Cats are so stoic; she's in more pain than she shows. (our old Tommy, he got his tail crushed in the door and we didn't even know until the end fell off - talk about feeling guilty!) > Thank you Kaeli, for your well thought out advice. Welcome. Do post a follow-up and let us know how it goes, okay? Signature-- ~kaeli~ Synonym: the word you use in place of a word you can't spell. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace > > I did leve some treats in the shelter and they disappeared fairly > > quick. Unfortunately, I got my closest look at 'one-eye' last night. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Welcome. > Do post a follow-up and let us know how it goes, okay? Well, I called the animal hospital down the street.They're aware of this cat and have been unsuccessful trying to catch it. They say the wound has been getting worse recently. They're not sure who would take financial responsibilty for this cat if it was turned in. My boss said he and I could offer to split the cost with the hospital, maybe more, see what they say. He will be bringing in some mercy traps (he's a hunter) and we're going to try and catch them. The woman at the hospital I spoke with is reasonably confident that this is something treatable, and that the cat could be placed in a no kill shelter to await adoption, but she cautioned me that she can't be sure of anything until they have the cat. Updates as they happen. Wish me luck (except for Mary who will no doubt curse me) > -- > Well, I called the animal hospital down the street.They're aware of > this cat and have been unsuccessful trying to catch it. They say the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Wish me luck I wish all involved luck. And I fervently hope to hear of a happy ending where this cat gets adopted by a vet tech who falls hopelessly in love with it. ;) / I watch too much TV Signature-- ~kaeli~ Support your local medical examiner: die strangely! http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace > > Well, I called the animal hospital down the street.They're aware of > > this cat and have been unsuccessful trying to catch it. They say the [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > -- Me too. Friggin Animal Planet Emergency Vets! BTW - no sign of One Eye since Wednesday Carl > > Well, I called the animal hospital down the street.They're aware of > > this cat and have been unsuccessful trying to catch it. They say the [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > -- New Update: I got close enough to One-Eye today (about 10 feet) to take a few pics so I can show the vet. She isn't looking good. I won't have access to traps til Monday. Anyone with the stomach or heart to look at these pics can e-mail me but be warned, they are not pretty. I hope she can lat the weekend. I'll let you know. Carl > > > Well, I called the animal hospital down the street.They're aware of > > > this cat and have been unsuccessful trying to catch it. They say the [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Carl I think I'll pass on the photos. I'm sure you'll be able to get a few more once she is dead because you decided to have a long discussion about what to do rather than doing anything for her. Good luck catching them with the traps. Keep us posted. Gail >> > I did leve some treats in the shelter and they disappeared fairly >> > quick. Unfortunately, I got my closest look at 'one-eye' last night. [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] >> >> -- Good luck catching that poor baby. Any way you can get a trap this weekend? We have a shelter here who loans them out with a deposit, which is returned when you return the trap. Also, feed stores sell them. I got one to catch some kittens -- I think it was about $50. How about splitting that with the boss too? Sounds like it's very urgent at this point. I have all my fingers crossed for that cat. I hate it when they suffer. Keep us posted. Rhonda > Well, I called the animal hospital down the street.They're aware of > this cat and have been unsuccessful trying to catch it. They say the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >>-- PS -- Where are you located? If you're here in Washington state, I can loan you a trap right away. Rhonda > Good luck catching that poor baby. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Rhonda > I have a call in to the closest Humane Society and a nearby "no-kill" > shelter, but so far no call backs. Don't sit by the phone. Call the shelter and ask if you can borrow a live trap. Most shelters have a few Tomahawks or Havaharts that they'll loan out ( if they have both, take the Tomahawk). You may be asked to leave a $50-$100 deposit which is returned when you return the trap. Worst case scenario, buy one (~$100) - you might find TNR very rewarding. Set the trap up where the cat hangs out, spray the trap with Feliway to mask your scent and reduce the cat's anxiety about entering the trap. Put some food in the trap and wait. Bring a blanket over the trap after you trap the cat to help reduce the stress of trapping and transporting. You may not catch the right cat the first time - but which ever cat you trap, have him/her neutered. If you have a decent client-vet relationship the vet should give you a substantial discount. > Unfortunately, I got my closest look at 'one-eye' last night. > She needs help. Her eye is clearly infected. Not only missing, but > that side of her face is swollen. All the more reason not to delay. > Don't sit by the phone. Call the shelter and ask if you can borrow a live > trap. Most shelters have a few Tomahawks or Havaharts that they'll loan > out ( if they have both, take the Tomahawk). You may be asked to leave a > $50-$100 deposit which is returned when you return the trap. Worst case > scenario, buy one (~$100) - you might find TNR very rewarding. Yes indeed, but ~$100 for a decent trap would be highway robbery. Ouch! $50-$60 is the usual price, e.g. directly from the manufacturer http://www.safeguardproducts.com/live_animal_traps.asp (You'll want the 52836, the best all-around trap with the basic havahart design.) You can find places on the net with cheaper prices, too. Some useful pointers on this page: http://www.neighborhoodcats.org/info/recommendtrap.htm (The "info" link in the menu on the left leads to related material.) > > Don't sit by the phone. Call the shelter and ask if you can borrow a live > > trap. Most shelters have a few Tomahawks or Havaharts that they'll loan [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > (You'll want the 52836, the best all-around trap with the basic havahart > design.) You can find places on the net with cheaper prices, too. Naaa, I like the Tomahawk - been using it for years without a problem - worth the few extra bucks. http://www.tomahawklivetrap.com/ > Some useful pointers on this page: > > http://www.neighborhoodcats.org/info/recommendtrap.htm > > (The "info" link in the menu on the left leads to related material.) NC is a great org! Phil >> Yes indeed, but ~$100 for a decent trap would be highway robbery. Ouch! >> $50-$60 is the usual price, e.g. directly from the manufacturer [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > http://www.tomahawklivetrap.com/ I don't mind the Tomahawk except that the latch mechanism on the second door is somewhat poor: the keyring style clip hangs from a chain that tends to break (well, that's been our experience in the field), and the latch gets in the way when transfering cats. I use my 32" Tomahawk mainly as a kitten backup to my 4 36" Safeguards. I just remembered, I have some pictures up at http://www.nyct.net/~aray/traps/ showing a 32" Tomahawk and a 30" Safeguard side by side. > NC is a great org! Yep. The video link on their home page (www.neighborhoodcats.org) is a must see. They have a new video out on TNR, with footage from a number of projects. Unfortunately, Rikers Island isn't in it, as the Dept of Corrections wouldn't allow cameras. > >> Yes indeed, but ~$100 for a decent trap would be highway robbery. Ouch! > >> $50-$60 is the usual price, e.g. directly from the manufacturer [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > break (well, that's been our experience in the field), and the latch gets > in the way when transfering cats. Interesting. I haven't had any problems - probably trapped a few hundred cats with them. I don't like the trip plate in the Safeguards - too small - cats walk right over it without tripping. ...and then there's my trusty net! Rub down the coveralls with catnip, and sit... and sit... and sit...:-> Don't have that kinda time anymore. I use my 32" Tomahawk mainly as a kitten > backup to my 4 36" Safeguards. I just remembered, I have some pictures up at > > http://www.nyct.net/~aray/traps/ > showing a 32" Tomahawk and a 30" Safeguard side by side. See? The trip plate is too small. > > NC is a great org! > > Yep. The video link on their home page (www.neighborhoodcats.org) is a > must see. They have a new video out on TNR, with footage from a number > of projects. Unfortunately, Rikers Island isn't in it, as the Dept of > Corrections wouldn't allow cameras. The title would've been "Cats & Cons"! LOL! Bryan is doing a great job. Phil > ...and then there's my trusty net! Rub down the coveralls with catnip, and > sit... and sit... and sit...:-> Don't have that kinda time anymore. Phil this is hilarious, and a great idea at the same time. > > ...and then there's my trusty net! Rub down the coveralls with catnip, > and > > sit... and sit... and sit...:-> Don't have that kinda time anymore. > > Phil this is hilarious, and a great idea at the same time. Funny story: While I was setting up a trap one night, a cat walked right up to me - sat there and watched me set up the trap with a "you don't really think I'm dumb enough to walk into that thing, do you?" look on his face. LOL! I felt so guilty ushering him into the trap - like I betrayed his trust. (Cats should be travel agents because they're sure good at selling me guilt trips! LOL!) I thought 'this cat can't be feral'... too friendly (although some ferals actually are). I saw how wrong I was when my vet tried to examine him! Hence, his name, Jekyll. ;-> Phil ... I got my closest look at 'one-eye' last night. > She needs help. Her eye is clearly infected. Not only missing, but > that side of her face is swollen. She isn't crying in pain, and does > cat like things like grooming herself, playing, stalking, etc, but it > has to be hurting her. I will wait to hear from the people I've called > and try not to otherwise interfere to much with their routine. I will > give them some food, but it looks like they are being fed. Have you considered trapping the injured cat and taking her to a vet for treatment? Maybe the people who are feeding her would be willing to donate some money to the vet for her care. After she recovers, it might be possible to release her back in her old territory. A rescue organization or someone who does rescues might be able to advise you on how to trap her and how likely it is that the other cats will let her re-join the colony. Annie > I recently started working in a place where I frequently see two obviously > feral cats in the back parking lot. [...] > These are my choices: > > Do nothing. This is the correct choice for *you*. You've damaged enough cats' lives already. > My other choice is to call the animal hospital down the street or the > Humane Society to come catch them. If this is the only other "choice" that occurs to you, then all the more would it be correct for you to do nothing. Cats are not your long suit. > What would you do? Depends. > > I recently started working in a place where I frequently see two obviously > > feral cats in the back parking lot. [...] [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > This is the correct choice for *you*. You've damaged enough cats' lives > already. Yep. I did not answer because I know this a.shole will do whatever is convenient. I probably would already have DONE something about the ferals, but buttwipe here's response to them is "oh, great topic for the Newsgroup." What a cat lover. > > My other choice is to call the animal hospital down the street or the > > Humane Society to come catch them. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Depends. > > > I recently started working in a place where I frequently see two > obviously [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > > > Depends. Well, gosh. Thanks for all the compasionate and insightful advice. Thanks to all of your thoughtful input, I've decided to capture the cats, bring them home, clean out the eye wound with a crowbar and turpentine, declaw them at my workbench with my own power tools, and then let them live out their lives in the spacious confines of a trash can in my back yard. Deusch Bags >Well, gosh. Thanks for all the compasionate and insightful advice. >Thanks to all of your thoughtful input, I've decided to capture the >cats, bring them home, clean out the eye wound with a crowbar and >turpentine, declaw them at my workbench with my own power tools, and >then let them live out their lives in the spacious confines of a trash >can in my back yard. Gee I hate when someone beats me to a great idea. However its what I planned for you, not the cats. Douche bag (spelling lesson is free) > >Well, gosh. Thanks for all the compasionate and insightful advice. > >Thanks to all of your thoughtful input, I've decided to capture the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Douche bag (spelling lesson is free) Well, hell, I thought he was calling me a German bag! >> >Well, gosh. Thanks for all the compasionate and insightful advice. >> >Thanks to all of your thoughtful input, I've decided to capture the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Well, hell, I thought he was calling me a German bag! Not exactly a Louis Vuitton :-) -mhd <SNIP> >Well, gosh. Thanks for all the compasionate and insightful advice. >Thanks to all of your thoughtful input, I've decided to capture the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Deusch Bags I got a much better idea -- you know your filthy little skanky girls?? Have you ever seen the movie "Caligula"? You know that scene at the end after Caligula is murdered, where his infant son is sent to join papa? Go find some nice cement stairs, grab the little skanks by the ankles, and do a Halloween Pumpkin with their heads against the stairs. When you realize what you've done, do your wife and yourself, erasing your genes from the world! BTW, can I rip their heads off and f.ck the holes? > I probably would already have DONE something about the ferals, > but buttwipe here's response to them is "oh, great topic for the > Newsgroup." What a cat lover. Yes. All talk, no action. I dislike this kind of "what would you do" posts, especially when the poster offers no evidence of constructive action on his own part. (No, sorry, calling the Humane Society is not constructive.) And I dislike the undercurrent of emotional blackmail where not doing anything for this *particular* cat could be construed as a failure on our part. There are many sad cases out there. Too many. No safety net, and the resources of rescuers are stretched way too thin already. That's why you can't save them all; and to save even one, you have to do it yourself, because everyone else's plate is already full. A request was passed to me through the network the other day. Someone who lives nearby had the usual problem: a momcat with a newly weaned litter in her backyard. This lady was unusual, though. She wanted to do something about it *herself*. She called asking for traps and a holding cage so she could socialize the kittens! Could she come by and pick them up? No need: I took them over myself. I was happy to. Her job involves a lot of travelling. Despite that, she caught the momcat and the entire litter, got the momcat fixed, and has already adopted out three of the five kittens. Contrast that with ceb2's smug "discussion" of his "choices". Feh. > > I probably would already have DONE something about the ferals,but buttwipe here's response to them is "oh, great topic for the Newsgroup." What a cat lover. > Yes. All talk, no action. I dislike this kind of "what would you do" posts, especially when the poster offers no evidence of constructive action on his own part. (No, sorry, calling the Humane Society is not constructive.) And I dislike the undercurrent of emotional blackmail > where not doing anything for this *particular* cat could be construed as a failure on our part. > A request was passed to me through the network the other day. Someone who lives nearby had the usual problem: a momcat with a newly weaned litter in > her backyard. This lady was unusual, though. She wanted to do something about it *herself*. She called asking for traps and a holding cage so she could socialize the kittens! Could she come by and pick them up? No need: I took them over myself. I was happy to. Her job involves a lot of travelling. Despite that, she caught the momcat and the entire litter, got the momcat fixed, and has already adopted out three of the five kittens. People who genuinely do care about the plight of strays and ferals are easy to recognize, that's for sure. > Contrast that with ceb2's smug "discussion" of his "choices". Feh. Just to SEE a cat with one eye that had obviously been gouged out, yes even "18 months ago," and to post to a f.cking newsgroup instead of taking action nauseates me. (...) > This is the correct choice for *you*. You've damaged enough cats' lives > already. A stupid comment. ceb2 declawed his/her cats, but that does not mean that he is incapable of some positive actions wrt cats, or indeed that he is incapable of change wrt declawing. Some of the ng regulars have had their cats declawed in the past. They realised their mistake and did not repeat it. However, by endlessly telling ceb2 to go essentially go f.ck himself, I don't think you're doing anything to (e.g.) help any future cats he might adopt. All you're likely to do is to put him on the defensive and probably entrench his barbaric beliefs further. > > My other choice is to call the animal hospital down the street or the > > Humane Society to come catch them. > > If this is the only other "choice" that occurs to you, then all the more > would it be correct for you to do nothing. Cats are not your long suit. So, you think it's better for the cat with the missing, dribbling eye to just stay out in the field, fuc'd, rather than be helped? I fear your cornflakes needed to be fortified with less vitamic C and more rationality this morning. > > What would you do? > > Depends. So, rather than provide ceb2 with any useful info that might assist the cats, you'd rather chuck a couple more insults in and then bugger off. Of course, I've provided no useful info for ceb2 here either. Then again, I'm not an experienced TNR guy - unlike you Arjun, IIRC. Steve. > Some of the ng regulars have had their cats declawed in the past. > They realised their mistake and did not repeat it. ceb2 claimed to have "researched" the subject *before* mutilating his kittens. > However, by endlessly telling ceb2 to go essentially go f.ck himself, > I don't think you're doing anything to (e.g.) help any future cats he > might adopt. The thought of him adopting another cat appals me. I sincerely hope he never does. >> If this is the only other "choice" that occurs to you, then all the more >> would it be correct for you to do nothing. Cats are not your long suit. > > So, you think it's better for the cat with the missing, dribbling eye to > just stay out in the field, fuc'd, rather than be helped? My comment was on the choices that occured to ceb2. I found them quite revealing. It wasn't about helping the cat; it was about how he could be *seen* "helping". That is, it wasn't about benefit. It was about credit. >> > What would you do? >> >> Depends. > > So, rather than provide ceb2 with any useful info that might assist the > cats, The info would be lost on him. > you'd rather chuck a couple more insults in and then bugger off. > > Of course, I've provided no useful info for ceb2 here either. Then again, > I'm not an experienced TNR guy - unlike you Arjun, IIRC. As "an experienced TNR guy", I can say one thing with certainty: you can't save them all. What does this mean? It means that you have to be willing to do the necessary *yourself*. Do you really think the folks at the Humane Society were sitting around waiting for a phone call so they could have something to do? Why does it have to be *someone else* to "take care of this cat"? From trapping him, to getting him vetted, to keeping him indoors for a week or two to finish a round of ABs, to - gasp! - paying for some or all of this, there are *plenty* of *constructive* things one could do. To make a difference. Calling the Humane Society is not a "choice" to make a difference. But it's the kind of thing that would occur to a ceb2. He fits the mold of the middle manager type in corporations. People who "manage" problems rather than solve them (which means: getting someone else to take care of them.) I have nothing to say to such people, devoid as they are of imagination and good sense. > > Some of the ng regulars have had their cats declawed in the past. > > They realised their mistake and did not repeat it. > > ceb2 claimed to have "researched" the subject *before* mutilating his > kittens. Yes. But the realities might take a while to percolate thru' the cortex... (...) > The thought of him adopting another cat appals me. I sincerely hope he > never does. With his current views, maybe so. However, change is possible and railing endlessly against him at every opportunity ain't going to help any change along. Just seems pointless, unhelpful and unpersuasive. (...) > My comment was on the choices that occured to ceb2. I found them quite > revealing. It wasn't about helping the cat; it was about how he could be > *seen* "helping". That is, it wasn't about benefit. It was about credit. Might be so, but this is not a generous interpretation. Perhaps highlighting the other choices would have spurred him into action - who knows? And if he chose to ignore said choices, then more grist for your mill anyway. (...) > The info would be lost on him. You don't know that. There's nothing to lose by providing some useful suggestions (indeed, as included in your last post). (...) > Calling the Humane Society is not a "choice" to make a difference. But > it's the kind of thing that would occur to a ceb2. He fits the mold of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I have nothing to say to such people, devoid as they are of imagination > and good sense. Well, not every cat can be saved, and not everyone has the desire to save cats personally. I don't think this makes the non-saver a bag of devil's arse chunks. 'tis better that ceb2 at least thinks how to assist the cats in some way, rather than not. The Human Soc is some sort of option. It would realistically lead to the cat's euthanasia, I suppose, but if the eyeless cat was in chronic pain and facing a potentially worse death, then euthanasia is - IMO - acceptable. Steve. >> The info would be lost on him. > > You don't know that. There's nothing to lose by providing some useful > suggestions (indeed, as included in your last post). The problem is that suggestions can't be made in a vacuum. The point has already been raised that there seem to be other people in the equation. Who built those shelters? Is there someone feeding them regularly? What are their plans? Maybe the cat has eluded traps in the past (which would call for serious planning in order to catch it). But the last thing I would want to see is someone catching the cat and dumping it on a Humane Society. > The Human Soc is some sort of option. It would realistically lead to the > cat's euthanasia, I suppose, Yes, unless (a) you advocate for the cat, and (b) the HS finds you persuasive. This is all modulo the policies of the particular HS - not all societies are the same (especially when it comes to views on ferals.) > but if the eyeless cat was in chronic pain and facing a potentially > worse death, then euthanasia is - IMO - acceptable. I'm speculating, but if the wound is old, then serious infection would have long since killed the cat. Given a thorough cleaning and a course of ABs, there's a good chance of healing from the inside, leaving little to no lasting pain. But the cat would have to be confined in a clean environment, to give the cleaned wound the best chance and to ensure that the meds are administered. Add that all up and it's easy to see how a HS could triage and say "Why bother, when you're going to put the cat back out?" So, unless you're absolutely sure that the cat is indeed better off dead, not getting involved when you're not willing able and able to advocate for the cat may just be the better part of wisdom. > So, unless you're absolutely sure that the cat is indeed better off dead, > not getting involved when you're not willing able and able to advocate for > the cat may just be the better part of wisdom. s/able//. Sorry about that. But, seriously, putting a cat out of its supposed misery is not the only way to "help" it. << they look in good health otherwise >> << One of the cats is missing an eye and it wasn't done surgically. It's a messy, bloody, scabby wound. >> Is it just me, or is this a contradiction? I agree with others that you should probably keep out of it since you're a cat abuser. It's a very sad situation for those kitties, though. Maybe you should call a rescue group. Or maybe the person caring for them will take care of it. They should be trapped and receive medical care and neutering and maybe released to a feral colony somewhere away from traffic. But the task is probably too big for you so you might as well leave well enough alone. Candace (take the litter out before replying by e-mail) See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace "One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other than human." (Loren Eisely) There are feral groups around that will trap, spay/neuter, and release if someone is feeding them. I think it would be a good idea to get that eye treated, at the very least. You might call the Humane Society and see if they can give you the names of some feral rescue groups who could help. Also, if you offer a donation or even offer to cover the expense of eye-treatment or spay, neuter, that might help them to be able to help the cats. Maybe even take donations at your office. The Humane Societies themselves are usually over-extended and may not take feral cats. They take lots of time to tame, something the H.S. does not always have. Good luck, Rhonda > I recently started working in a place where I frequently see two > obviously feral cats in the back parking lot. They are both adults, [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > What would you do? One of the cats > is missing an eye and it wasn't done surgically. It's a messy, bloody, > scabby wound. I can't really tell that it's in any discomfort or not, You can't be serious! The cat's eye was gouged out traumatically, "its a messy, bloody, scabby wound", and you don't know if the cat is in any discomfort? What are you, a f.cking moron? >I'm not sure what Kinda shape ol' 'one eye" is in. What kinda shape do you think he's in after traumatic enucleation of an eye? > If that eye gets infected he may die. Wow! That's right! Who told you? Obviously, you need someone to tell you that the cat is in *desperate* need of medical attention ASAP, so I'll volunteer. The cat is in *desperate* need of medical attention ASAP. Since I doubt you're capable - or would be willing to exert the effort to trap the cat, or pay for the medical care this cat needs so desperately, I suggest you call The Greater New Haven Cat Project (203) 782-CATS for help. If they're too far away, I'm sure they can put you in touch with someone closer who can help. Just don't tell them I gave you their number. > One of the cats > > is missing an eye and it wasn't done surgically. It's a messy, bloody, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > messy, bloody, scabby wound", and you don't know if the cat is in any > discomfort? What are you, a f.cking moron? He's been like that for over 18 months, he may well be used to it you f*cking moron. > >I'm not sure what Kinda shape ol' 'one eye" is in. > > What kinda shape do you think he's in after traumatic enucleation of an eye? Like I said, 18 mos at least, perhaps it has healed 'messy'. > > If that eye gets infected he may die. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > If they're too far away, I'm sure they can put you in touch with someone > closer who can help. Just don't tell them I gave you their number. Sure thing f8cking moron. > > One of the cats > > > is missing an eye and it wasn't done surgically. It's a messy, bloody, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > He's been like that for over 18 months, he may well be used to it you f*cking moron. I see. As long as the cat is "used to" the discomfort, that's ok with you? I'm not the f.cking moron; I wouldn't need to ask what to do if I saw a cat in such horrible condition. I would have trapped the cat and taken him to a vet. But that's me; I guess I'm just a little more responsive to cats in desperate need of help. > > >I'm not sure what Kinda shape ol' 'one eye" is in. > > > > What kinda shape do you think he's in after traumatic enucleation of an eye? > > Like I said, 18 mos at least, perhaps it has healed 'messy'. ..and perhaps painfully. > > > If that eye gets infected he may die. > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Sure thing f8cking moron. I didn't call you a f.cking moron, I simply asked you if you are one. Since you don't know the difference between a question and a statement, you must be a f.cking moron. > > "Phil P." <phil@maxshouse.com> wrote in message > news:<GvWdnXXds-z3TeDcRVn-1w@giganews.com>... [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > I didn't call you a f.cking moron, I simply asked you if you are one. Since you don't know the difference between a question and a statement, you must be a f.cking moron. I love this abusive bastard's answers to this round, it shows his true colors. This is a guy who mutilated three perfect kittens, but is irritated when cat lovers hold him accountable for it. The height of arrogance AND ignorance, lol I agree that their medical needs are probably no more urgent than any other stray cat, I recommend doing nothing until you find out more about the people who are already taking care of the cats, and then try to work with them. They might even resent your uninvited involvement. Maybe they can catch them without trapping. If they are not completely feral, they might respond better to a toy than to food, if you want to lure them closer. The "toy" need only be a long twig with leaves on it, or stalk of grass, even feral cats like to play. I don't know how familiar you are with usenet, but you've gotten a variety of responses to your completely innocuous original post. It's still surprising to me how many people use this newsgroup as their emotional toilet. Of course, it's always the same people. You made a mistake in taking some of the responses personally and responding in kind. Generally speaking, if you put forth a rational request and get irrational responses, you know you are dealing with kooks. It's best just to ignore them. You now have a nearly complete list for your filters or whatever. Occasionally, some useful information is exchanged, not really worth the bother of gleaning it, but I'm addicted to the raw, unbridled, unchecked, unmitigated, untamed, out of control hysterical shrieking emotion I get to witness here at least weekly, directed at some hapless newbie who simply didn't know the "rules". It's better than William Shatner in his prime. Kind of hard on the newbie, though. There are, of course, many participants who are always calm and rational and who even give useful information. So I keep my hand in, and try to contribute from my own experience. For useful animal medical information without the drama, check out alt.med.veterinary SignatureJohn Kimmel gNuOy_SnPoAiMr@teleport.com I think it will be quiet around here now. So long. > I don't know how familiar you are with usenet, but you've gotten a variety > of responses to your completely innocuous original post. It's still [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > didn't know the "rules". It's better than William Shatner in his prime. > Kind of hard on the newbie, though. I love it! This has to be one of the better descriptions of usenet :-) You now have a nearly complete list for your > filters or whatever. Occasionally, some useful information is exchanged, not really worth the bother of gleaning it, but I'm addicted to the raw, unbridled, unchecked, unmitigated, untamed, out of control > hysterical shrieking emotion I get to witness here at least weekly, directed at some hapless newbie who simply didn't know the "rules". So you think it's just fine that this a.shole declawed three kittens. Good to know. <SNIP> Why don't you ask one of the myriad people who support you in email what to do? <guffaw!> eq
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