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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / August 2003ProPlan vs Nutro
The recent nutrition conversation has gotten me thinking... (I know, that's dangerous, but bear with me) My cats won't touch any of the really good foods, like Wellness, Innova, etc. They despise Science Diet. I used to feed Nutro, but then heard bad things about them. I read some labels and found that Purina ProPlan seemed the best food (I compared it to the other high brands like IAMS, Science Diet, and Wellness). I don't know a lot about the subject, not that I haven't tried to read the sites like Max's House and such. So anyway, is Proplan a good food? Nutro seems like it isn't as good based on the labels... Those are the only two my cats like except for the real crap like Fancy Feast and Cat Chow. Can anyone decipher this for me? *BG* Pro Plan: Guaranteed Analysis Crude protein (min.) 34.0% Crude fat (min.) 14.0% Crude fiber (max.) 2.0% Moisture (max.) 12.0% Linoleic acid (min.) 1.4% Calcium (Ca) (min.) 0.85% Phosphorus (P)(min.) 0.8% Magnesium (Mg) (max.) 0.12% Vitamin A (min.) 10,000 IU/kg Taurine (min.) 0.15% Ingredients: Beef, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, poultry by-product meal, whole grain corn, beef tallow preserved with mixed-tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), soybean meal, wheat flour, fish meal, egg product, phosphoric acid, brewers dried yeast, potassium chloride, natural flavors, calcium carbonate, tetra sodium pyrophosphate, salt, choline chloride, vitamin supplements (E, A, B-12, D-3), taurine, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, ascorbic acid (source of Vitamin C), L-Alanine, riboflavin supplement, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, biotin, thiamine mononitrate, folic acid, pyridoxine hydrochloride, copper sulfate, citric acid, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), calcium iodate, sodium selenite. F-4629 Nutro Max: Ingredients Chicken Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Wheat Flour, Ground Rice, Poultry Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of natural Vitamin E), Ground Whole Wheat, Lamb Meal, Dried Egg Product, Natural Flavors, Brewers Dried Yeast, Monosodium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, DL- Methionine, Salt, Taurine, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Cobalt Carbonate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Thiamine Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Potassium Iodide, Vitamin B12 Supplement. Nutro supports the safe, ethical and humane treatment of all animals, including those used by our suppliers who provide our ingredients. Guaranteed Analysis Crude Protein (minimum) 32.00% Crude Fat (minimum) 18.00% Crude Fiber (maximum) 3.00% Moisture (maximum) 10.00% Ash (maximum) 6.50% Linoleic Acid (minimum) 3.50% Magnesium (maximum) 0.085% Zinc (minimum) 200 mg/kg Taurine (minimum) 0.16% ------------------------------------------------- ~kaeli~ Press any key to continue or any other key to quit. Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk? http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace ------------------------------------------------- >From: kaeli infinite.possibilities@NOSPAMatt.net >My cats won't touch any of the really good foods, like Wellness, Innova, >etc. They despise Science Diet. >I used to feed Nutro, but then heard bad things about them. I read some >labels and found that Purina ProPlan seemed the best food (I compared it >to the other high brands like IAMS, Science Diet, and Wellness). Have you tried Chicken Soup for the Soul? I think iit's pretty widely available. Here's their website: http://www.chickensoupforthepetloverssoul.com/ingredients.html ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >So anyway, is Proplan a good food? >Nutro seems like it isn't as good based on the labels... Those are the >only two my cats like except for the real crap like Fancy Feast and Cat >Chow. >Can anyone decipher this for me? *BG* Interesting (and revealing) that Nutro wouldn't put their phosphorus levels on the bag--unless you just didn't include them. Nutro is notorious for having high levels of phosphorus and calcium. And on the day 22 Aug 2003 02:25:06 GMT, gaubster2@aol.com enlightened us with <20030821222506.00770.00000581@mb-m02.aol.com>... > >So anyway, is Proplan a good food? > >Nutro seems like it isn't as good based on the labels... Those are the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the bag--unless you just didn't include them. Nutro is notorious for having > high levels of phosphorus and calcium. I copied whatever ther website had, so no, they didn't list it. -------------------------------------------------- ~kaeli~ Kill one man and you are a murderer. Kill millions and you are a conqueror. Kill everyone and you are God. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart/ http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace/ ------------------------------------------------ >So anyway, is Proplan a good food? >Nutro seems like it isn't as good based on the labels... Those are the I don't know how Pro Plan stacks up among the premium foods, but it must be very palatable, because it's all Bootsie will eat. I know it's not the best available, but buying the best does no good if she won't eat it. She is very dainty and petite and just picks at her food anyway. I'm constantly trying whatever is new, just to get her to eat more. She'll eat the canned and also the dry. I've bought every treat imaginable, kitty milk, etc. etc. and she won['t touch them. Sherry > >So anyway, is Proplan a good food? > >Nutro seems like it isn't as good based on the labels... Those are the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Sherry Bebe is the same very fussy eater, she eats James Wellbeloved, Natural Choice..... Moshi on the other hand loves his food, he will eat more of less anything see his pic in alt.binaries.pictures.animals eating a whole raw sardine, he was just about to eat its face off!!!!!!!!!!!!  SignatureLuv'n'Stuff *~*SooZy*~* New Pictures added every few days http://community.webshots.com/user/ragdollcatsuk > >So anyway, is Proplan a good food? > >Nutro seems like it isn't as good based on the labels... Those are the > > I don't know how Pro Plan stacks up among the premium foods, but it must be > very palatable, because it's all Bootsie will eat. Exactly my problem. My cats love the junk food. They take after me, I guess. *LOL* ------------------------------------------------- ~kaeli~ Press any key to continue or any other key to quit. Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk? http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace ------------------------------------------------- > The recent nutrition conversation has gotten me thinking... > (I know, that's dangerous, but bear with me) [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > Nutro supports the safe, ethical and humane treatment of all animals, > including those used by our suppliers who provide our ingredients. Kaeli, I was a strong Nutro propnent for many years until I noticed a decline in the quality of the food as evidenced by increasing P & Ca levels (from cheaper cuts of meat with a lot of bone). At about the same time, I noticed Nutro no longer uses animal feeding trials to assess the digestibility and nutritional adequacy of their foods. Instead of expensive feeding trials, Nutro switched to cheaper chemical analysis. Little or nothing can be derived from chemical analysis about palatability, digestibility, and biological availability of nutrients. This maybe one of the reasons why many long-term Nuto eaters now refuse the same food. To make matters worse and support my suspicions, Nutro stopped publishing the proximate analyses of their diets on their website. The PAs listed the analysis of all their diets on a DM, AF and caloric basis. To my mind, Nutro isn't the same food upon which their reputation was built.... (maybe the second or third generation took over the compay and are only interested in the bucks). At leat there's science behind Purina diets - I don't know what's behind Nutro's diets anymore (except greed). If you cats won't eat SD, of the two, I'd go with Purina... Phil And on the day Fri, 22 Aug 2003 18:03:14 -0400, phil@maxshouse.com enlightened us with <_e-dnYrW5qFADtuiRVn-uA@giganews.com>... > At leat there's science behind Purina diets - I don't know what's behind > Nutro's diets anymore (except greed). If you cats won't eat SD, of the > two, I'd go with Purina... What do you think of the meat vs meal meal ingredients? -------------------------------------------------- ~kaeli~ Kill one man and you are a murderer. Kill millions and you are a conqueror. Kill everyone and you are God. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart/ http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace/ ------------------------------------------------ > And on the day Fri, 22 Aug 2003 18:03:14 -0400, phil@maxshouse.com > enlightened us with <_e-dnYrW5qFADtuiRVn-uA@giganews.com>... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > What do you think of the meat vs meal meal ingredients? "Meat" like "chicken", "beef" etc is what is called "wet" meat, it includes all the moisture that will be cooked away during processing. About 70% of the weight of a wet meat is lost in the production process. "meat meal" like "Chicken meal", "beef meal" etc is merely the dried version of the same thing, the water has been removed before processing begins. Manufacturers use a "wet" meat to make it appear that a food contains more of a given ingredient and move that ingredient higher on the ingredient list. Ingredients are listed in order of the weight of each ingredient prior to the acutal manufacturng process. For example suppose a food had the following list of ingredients: chicken, corn meal, rice flour, vegetable oil the above ingredient list could contain the following: 15 ounces of chicken 14 ounces of corn meal 13 ounces of rice flour 12 ounces of vegetable oil After the food is processed and the water is removed the food actually has the following amounts of each ingredient 15 ounces of wet meat chicken, less 70% water = 4.5 oounces chicken 14 ounces of corn meal, less 10% moisture = 12.6 ounces corn meal 13 ounces of rice flour, less 10% moisture = 11.7 ounces of rice flour 12 ounces of vegetable oil, less 0% moisture = 12 ounces of vegetable oil. If this same food had been produced using chicken meal instead of chicken the chicken would have been listed fourth on the ingredient list instead of first. Remember this is just a very rough example designed as an example of the process. > And on the day Fri, 22 Aug 2003 18:03:14 -0400, phil@maxshouse.com > enlightened us with <_e-dnYrW5qFADtuiRVn-uA@giganews.com>... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > What do you think of the meat vs meal meal ingredients? Meat meal is a form of concentrated protein since most of the water and fat have been removed. But that doesn't mean the protein is high quality or its all digestible or has a high biological value. This is why animal feeding trials are so important... which Nutro doesn't conduct.... Phil > The recent nutrition conversation has gotten me thinking... > (I know, that's dangerous, but bear with me) [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > including those used by our suppliers who provide our ingredients. > I would say that the Nutro is better than the Proplan because: 1. The sources of meat in PP is meat as opposed to meat meal which is the meat with the moisture removed. Nutro's meat is all meat meal which is better. The Nutro has more actual meat in it than the proplan because once you remove the moisture in the beef in PP it will no longer be the first ingredient. 2. Nutro contains no meat by products. 3. PP contains whole grain corn as the #5 ingredient - just all filler - cats have no need for corn. 4. PP contains soybean meal - another filler. And on the day Sat, 23 Aug 2003 00:03:56 -0700, rrb_041303@cox.net enlightened us with <wlE1b.7626$QT5.2493@fed1read02>... > I would say that the Nutro is better than the Proplan because: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > once you remove the moisture in the beef in PP it will no longer be the > first ingredient. I was under the impression cats require as much moisture from their food as possible, which would make meat meal worse, not better, for them. Did you have information I could read to the opposite? Thanks! -------------------------------------------------- ~kaeli~ Kill one man and you are a murderer. Kill millions and you are a conqueror. Kill everyone and you are God. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart/ http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace/ ------------------------------------------------ > And on the day Sat, 23 Aug 2003 00:03:56 -0700, rrb_041303@cox.net > enlightened us with <wlE1b.7626$QT5.2493@fed1read02>... [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > as possible, which would make meat meal worse, not better, for them. > Did you have information I could read to the opposite? Wasn't that nutritional breakdown for DRY cat food? Priscilla SignatureThe Episcopal Church welcomes you... and you... and you.... > And on the day Sat, 23 Aug 2003 00:03:56 -0700, rrb_041303@cox.net > enlightened us with <wlE1b.7626$QT5.2493@fed1read02>... [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace/ > ------------------------------------------------ I can't explain it much better than Steve Crane's response in this thread. A dry food only contains 10% moisture irregardless of the ingredients used. rrb > I can't explain it much better than Steve Crane's response in this > thread. A dry food only contains 10% moisture irregardless of the > ingredients used. Thanks, I just read his response. It explained it really well. I'm still worried about phosphorus(sp?) content, though, which Nutro doesn't list on its site or its packaging... ------------------------------------------------- ~kaeli~ Press any key to continue or any other key to quit. Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk? http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace ------------------------------------------------- "rrb_041303" <rrb_041303@cox.net> wrote in message > I would say that the Nutro is better than the Proplan because: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > once you remove the moisture in the beef in PP it will no longer be the > first ingredient. The meat in dry PP is also dried..... The "meat" in Nutro is poor quality cuts - contains a lot of bone and connective tissue... which accounts for the high phosphorus and calcium. Nutro doesn't conduct feeding trials so there's no way of knowing how much of their meat -- or the entire diet for that matter, is digestible or metabolizable... > 2. Nutro contains no meat by products. Meat by products are *more* nutritious than skeletal meat. When cats eat their prey in nature, they eat meat by products which are a source of natural vitamins and minerals. Skeletal meat is deficient in most vitamins and minerals. Nutro's claim to fame was their misleading advertixing gimmick denigrating by-products.... If Nutro's creative director saw your post, he would say "gotcha, the scam worked!" ;) > 3. PP contains whole grain corn as the #5 ingredient - just all filler - > cats have no need for corn. Corn is a carbohydrate source with protein-sparing properties. PP also contains corn gluten meal which is ~65% protein. > 4. PP contains soybean meal - another filler. Soybean protein has a biological value of ~72.8%... beef...~74.3%... Hey, beef is almost a filler, too, right? ;) |
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