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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / October 2004

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Down about Jackie

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dgk - 19 Oct 2004 18:20 GMT
Jackie's diarrhea has still not gotten better. In order to get all
three cats eating I let them have shitty food for a while (9lives,
Friskees, etc). Sure, they ate it but the litter really started
smelling foul. I never had litter odor problems before.

So now we're back to good food and naturally they aren't eating very
much. Hopefully they won't starve to death but somehow I doubt it will
come to that.

Anyway, since having all her teeth removed Jackie has been better and
has put on weight. Even she won't eat much of the good food and she
eats everything. But she has been on prednisone for three weeks and
there has not been much of an improvement in the diarrhea. Now that
it's getting cold and the windows are closed there has been a
noticeable stench in the house. Not just from the litter box but from
her also.

She developed an eye infection so I've been putting some ointment in
the eye twice a day. It has gotten better but it is a struggle to get
her to allow me to put stuff in her eye. She really is an independent
sort. Today I picked her up to put the ointment in and she farted and
diarrhea came out onto the comforter on the bed. Very nice. Not much,
maybe a half a teaspoon of whitish liquid. Not a good sign.

I have a vet appointment later today for one of the other cats, normal
checkup/shots. I'll raise the issue of Jackie and see what else we can
do. The easiest way to get her to take the compounded prednisone is to
mix it with cat milk. I think that maybe the cat milk is not such a
good idea. I'll check out that possibility.

Well, as always, any suggestions appreciated.
zuzu22@webtv.net - 19 Oct 2004 20:25 GMT
What exactly are you feeding her? Are you giving an supplements? If so,
what?

Megan

                                   
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
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-Edmund Burke

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"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
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dgk - 19 Oct 2004 20:49 GMT
>What exactly are you feeding her? Are you giving an supplements? If so,
>what?
>
>Megan
>
>                                    

No supplements. Just cat food. At the moment we're back to Natural
Choice, MaxCat, Triumph, etc. Any supplements recommended?
zuzu22@webtv.net - 19 Oct 2004 23:02 GMT
dgk,
I would get her off of those foods you are feeding now, and this
includes ANY dry food, and try one flavor of Wellness (turkey, for
example). Wellness has very high quality, highly digestible ingredients
and zero grains, which is important as grains can be a *major* problem
for some cats. Switching foods all the time isn't going to help you
figure out which one is problematic and may actually be making things
worse, and it's better to start off with one brand and one flavor. I
would also recommend that for at least a few days you take her off of
*all* cat food and feed her a homemade diet specifically formulated to
deal with diarrhea. The amounts are as follows:

6 oz. ground turkey (boil and drain off water)
400 mg calcium carbonate
1/10 of a human multivitamin tablet

This will provide 284 calories, 30. 1 grams protein, and 17.3 grams fat.

Once the diarrhea has cleared up give 2 bonemeal tablets (10 grain or
equivalent) instead of the calcium carbonate.

Then you can try *slowly* mixing in Wellness a little at a time and see
if you can keep her diarrhea under control.

There are a lot of people on the IBD list that have switched to this
food and been able to manage the IBD better than with anything else
other than feeding a raw diet. If you are free feeding dry food stop
that immediately and get Jackie on scheduled meals of only canned or the
diet above so her digestive system gets a break. She doesn't need to eat
all day to maintain her weight. As long as she's getting enough calories
that's all that matters, and for her feeding 15 calories per pound will
be enough to maintain her weight. If she still has soft stools once you
make the switch you can try adding some plain canned pumpkin into
Jackie's food and adding a little slippery elm as a regular thing won't
hurt either. It does come in capsule form and adding a half capsule to
each meal would help.  

You might also want to check out http://www.catnutrition.org for info on
IBD and feeding home prepared meals.
I hope I've given you a place to start.

Megan

                                   
Signature


"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

zuzu22@webtv.net - 20 Oct 2004 00:25 GMT
I should have added that I know Jackie lost her teeth and is on canned,
but it doesn't eliminate the possibility of her getting into dry food
and swallowing it whole. There are cats without teeth that have been
known to eat dry food anyway.

Megan

                                   
Signature


"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

dgk - 20 Oct 2004 15:10 GMT
>I should have added that I know Jackie lost her teeth and is on canned,
>but it doesn't eliminate the possibility of her getting into dry food
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>                                    
Jackie does eat some dry food. Particularly those Whiskas Temptations.
The yellow bag ones. Just a few a day, for her and the boys.
dgk - 20 Oct 2004 00:39 GMT
>What exactly are you feeding her? Are you giving an supplements? If so,
>what?
>
>Megan
>
>                                    

Back from the vet. Nipsy has gotten his shots. What a big wuss. Whined
all the way there and back. What an adorable mush-head.

The consult on Jackie is to leave the prednisone at the current level
(3mg per day), stop any "cat milk", and stop feeding crap food. So
that is what is going to happen. We'll see how the girl reacts.

She is willing to eat the quality food, although not as much as she
eats of the crap. I'm a bit worried about Espy. He has been losing
some weight since Jackie arrived. He hissed at Jackie and Jackie
bopped him one in the puss. All five pounds of her smacked a cat twice
her size and sent him running. He has not forgotten.

I'm feeding Espy away from her for the moment. He's young and will do
fine.

I've bought a bunch of new types of food and am writing up a chart to
keep track of which ones each cat likes. I also bought something
called Steve's Real Food which is frozen and seems pretty high up the
quality scale. We'll see.
Rhonda - 20 Oct 2004 04:46 GMT
Hi there,

I don't know about the prednisone, but sounds like cutting back on so
many kinds of food is key.

I haven't heard the whole story on what is wrong with Jackie. We had a
cat with tricky digestion, possibly IBD. The vet put him on prescription
wet food, the kind used for cats with food allergies. I believe it was
IVD (it was awhile ago.) It contains one uncommon starch like peas, and
one protein. That really helped Bob.

I think buying lots of foods and charting them is a bit much. I've found
that most healthy cats will eat what's there when hungry enough.

As for the sick ones, our IBD/digestive problem kitties, that can take a
bit more work. If a cat gets an upset stomach after eating, many times
they will blame the food and not touch that kind again. We fought many
food aversions with Bob. The flare-ups were normally pancreatitus and
not related to the food, but he didn't know that. We had to be creative
-- like switch him to a different flavor of IVD and coax him at times.

It's good to transition them over gradually when switching foods. I know
switching them from one to another too quickly will give them mucousy
diarrhea. I accidentally did that to just-weaned kittens. Instead of
having them on one, good food, I put out three kinds and let them pick!
Yikes.

Good luck getting your kitties into a nice, stable diet.

Rhonda

>  
> She is willing to eat the quality food, although not as much as she
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> called Steve's Real Food which is frozen and seems pretty high up the
> quality scale. We'll see.
dgk - 20 Oct 2004 16:18 GMT
>I haven't heard the whole story on what is wrong with Jackie. We had a
>cat with tricky digestion, possibly IBD. The vet put him on prescription
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>I think buying lots of foods and charting them is a bit much. I've found
>that most healthy cats will eat what's there when hungry enough.

I got Jackie about four months ago as a clearly sick elderly cat but
without any available history. She did not have diarrhea, at least I
didn't notice it as such. We spent a few months trying to figure out
why she ate like a horse and didn't gain weight. We could not get
blood the first month because she went nuts at the vet.

She had bad teeth and infected gums so we put her on antibiotics. Then
the diarrhea started. Finally we got all the test results and she was
normal except for a very high WBC. Back on antibiotics but to no real
avail. For dental work the vet sent us to the specialty vet who said
the only option was to pull all her teeth because she had an allergy
to either the teeth or the bacteria and that was the cure. Not cheap
but it was done. There were even five broken off teeth just festering
that he removed.

She has been much better in the month since the procedure. Her eyes no
longer look haunted, she moves around more, she has gained over a
pound. Her WBC is normal. But the diarrhea never stopped.

Likely IBD. Especially given MY family history.

I really do try to give a variety of foods to my cats and always have.
I just figured that they would like some variety but they do tend to
be more conservative than I am.

I just spoke to the vet. He said that acidophilus doesn't seem to have
any affect on cats but I can certainly give her some. So I will.

My immediate plan is just to see if being on decent food instead of
the crap helps. I think it is already better but it is tough to tell
for sure and it has only been for a few days.

If no better, then I guess I join the Yahoo IBD group and get serious
about it.
Rhonda - 20 Oct 2004 19:39 GMT
Hi DGK,

Was wondering -- has the vet mentioned feline distemper at all? We took
in a stray this spring, she got diarrhea immediately, and we thought it
was the food change.

Her babies were born 2 weeks later and some of them had tremors, which
is most likely due to the mom having distemper. I have since read that
diarrhea is a symptom.

I'm glad she's better, and hope the rest clears up soon.

Rhonda

>>I haven't heard the whole story on what is wrong with Jackie. We had a
>>cat with tricky digestion, possibly IBD. The vet put him on prescription
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> If no better, then I guess I join the Yahoo IBD group and get serious
> about it.
dgk - 21 Oct 2004 01:03 GMT
>Hi DGK,
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>Rhonda

No mention of Distemper. From what I just read on a website that is a
pretty fast acting disease. Isn't that one of the ones that are
screened for by adoption agencies?

She really doesn't have any of the symptoms except for diarrhea and
that is so common to other diseases. No high fever and I'm pretty sure
the CBC diff didn't show a marked decrease of granulocytes.

Oh the joys of pet ownership - I mean slavery.
Mary - 24 Oct 2004 02:07 GMT
> I'm a bit worried about Espy. He has been losing
> some weight since Jackie arrived. He hissed at Jackie and Jackie bopped
him one in the puss. All five pounds of her smacked a cat twice her size and
sent him running. He has not forgotten.

I have noticed that females often dominate males in this way, from watching
my friends' cats. One got married and his wife brought an ancient female
persian to live with him and his big burly tom. The female slapped the tom
into submission the first day, and it was hilarious to watch him slink
around to avoid him.
dgk - 25 Oct 2004 18:47 GMT
>> I'm a bit worried about Espy. He has been losing
>> some weight since Jackie arrived. He hissed at Jackie and Jackie bopped
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>into submission the first day, and it was hilarious to watch him slink
>around to avoid him.

This is just one pushy cat. Several times during the early morning
hours, Jackie decides it's time to stir things up and marches around
the bed, right over the pillow I'm on. Significant Other's as well. I
have more grace about it but Jackie is my project.

Luckily she is pretty light and easy to ignore. Now if Nipsy starts
walking on my head it's going to leave some marks.
Mary - 25 Oct 2004 20:47 GMT
> This is just one pushy cat. Several times during the early morning hours,
Jackie decides it's time to stir things up and marches around  the bed,
right over the pillow I'm on. Significant Other's as well. I have more grace
about it but Jackie is my project.

> Luckily she is pretty light and easy to ignore. Now if Nipsy startswalking
on my head it's going to leave some marks.

Hee! It doesn't sound like Jackies sounds loved and secure at all, no
sirree! ;) She has clearly claimed you and your SO as her own.
Leslie - 20 Oct 2004 02:40 GMT
Have you tried giving her some plain yogurt?
                                                                         
                                                        "you can tell alot
about a people or person in how they treat animals"
dgk - 20 Oct 2004 16:22 GMT
>Have you tried giving her some plain yogurt?
>                                                                          

I'm going to stay away from dairy stuff. But I will get her some
acidophilus.
Barb - 20 Oct 2004 16:02 GMT
My cats eat Wellness cans and a little of the Wellness dry.  I've heard good
things about that food from this group.  They like it a lot.  They are 13,
14 and 1 and a half.  There are at least 7 different flavors.

--
Barb
Of course I don't look busy,
I did it right the first time.
dgk - 21 Oct 2004 01:04 GMT
>My cats eat Wellness cans and a little of the Wellness dry.  I've heard good
>things about that food from this group.  They like it a lot.  They are 13,
>14 and 1 and a half.  There are at least 7 different flavors.

Wellness is one of the brands that I've picked up. They've tried it in
the past with limited success. But there was a variety with trout that
I seem to recall went over well.
 
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