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squirrel bite--Mary in LA, are you there?

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Betsy - 19 Oct 2004 01:11 GMT
My cats brought in a baby squirrel and I saved its neck (a scene that looked
like the silliest slapstick movie you can imagine, up and down two levels of
stairs), but the little critter nipped me a couple of times.  I loosed him
on the front porch and he scurried off.

I wonder if I should have any concern over these nibbles?  I'm up on my
tetanus shots, and don't believe squirrels carry rabies, do they?

The squirrel bites weren't deep at all, but the cat clawed me pretty well
during the brouhaha!  I of course washed my hand and then poured alcohol
over it.

Anything else I should worry about?

Thanks.
Mary - 19 Oct 2004 03:43 GMT
>I wonder if I should have any concern over these nibbles?  I'm up on my
>tetanus shots, and don't believe squirrels carry rabies, do they?

Squirrels don't carry rabies. All mammals can get rabies but only skunks,
raccoons, foxes and bats are rabies carriers. That means they can survive a few
weeks with rabies in their system before dying, long enough to bite someone
else adn give it to them. Most other mammals die quickly. If a squirrel were to
be bitten by a rabid animal, it'd probably die instantly because they are so
small. I think the last squirrel found in CA with rabies was ten years ago and
it was dead. Just clean the wound well and watch it. I've been bitten quite a
few times and never had a problem. You're more likely to get rabies from your
cat or dog.
Diane L. Schirf - 19 Oct 2004 04:13 GMT
> All mammals can get rabies but only skunks,
> raccoons, foxes and bats are rabies carriers.

Not true. Coyotes, too. It's basically carnivores and bats. Each species
actually carries a different rabies strain. Not rodents, though. (I got
this straight from the head of the CDC rabies program during a lecture
several years ago.)

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MaryL - 19 Oct 2004 04:36 GMT
> >I wonder if I should have any concern over these nibbles?  I'm up on my
> >tetanus shots, and don't believe squirrels carry rabies, do they?
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> few times and never had a problem. You're more likely to get rabies from your
> cat or dog.

I called animal control some years ago because an opossum was stumbling
around by a creek (in town) and generally acting very strange.  I was
concerned because of children in the area.  By the time animal control
arrived, the opossum was either comatose or dead.  The report later came
back that the opossum had rabies.

MaryL
Mary - 19 Oct 2004 06:11 GMT
>By the time animal control
>arrived, the opossum was either comatose or dead.  The report later came
>back that the opossum had rabies.

There is more to this. If the results of the test were indeterminate, they will
label the result "positive." If the animal were accidentally frozen, not
preserved perfectly, not tested soon enough, part of the head was damaged, they
will label it positive without testing it, even though it could have been
negative. It is very rare for an opossum to get rabies. Their body temperature
is a few degrees lower than ours so most virus and bacteria do not survive. The
opossum may have had a head injury, most likely at least. The pest control
industry loves to scare people about rabies, plague, hantavirus, so they can
sell more products and services. This is where a lot of the misconceptions
start.

A baby squirrel would have died if bitten by a rabid animal. If the mom had it
and passed it to the baby, the baby would not have survived more than three
days. The only way to test an animal for rabies is to cut it's head off and
send it to a lab. It makes sense to analyze other factors before you go
chopping off its head. Fortunately for cats or dogs because they are considered
"pets," they just quarantine them for 6 weeks instead of chopping off their
head.

Here's some info. The CDC briefs us all the time with new reports Different
areas in different parts of the country have different major vector animals.
Where I live bats are the number one culprit.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/rabies/
Mary - 19 Oct 2004 06:17 GMT
From the CDC website about squirrels and rabies.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/rabies/Ques&Ans/q&a.htm#What is the risk of
rabies from squirrels, mice, rats, and other rodents

3. Q: What is the risk of rabies from squirrels, mice, rats, and other rodents?

A: Small rodents (such as squirrels, rats, mice, hamsters, guinea pigs,
gerbils, and chipmunks, ) and lagomorphs (such as rabbits and hares) are almost
never found to be infected with rabies and have not been known to cause rabies
among humans in the United States. Bites by these animals are usually not
considered a risk of rabies unless the animal was sick or behaving in any
unusual manner and rabies is widespread in your area. However, from 1985
through 1994, woodchucks accounted for 86% of the 368 cases of rabies among
rodents reported to CDC.  Woodchucks or groundhogs (Marmota monax) are the only
rodents that may be frequently submitted to state health department because of
a suspicion of rabies. In all cases involving rodents, the state or local
health department should be consulted before a decision is made to initiate
postexposure prophylaxis (PEP).

For more information about rabies in rodents and lagomorphs, see: Childs, J.
E., Colby, L., Krebs, J. W., Strine, T., Feller, M., Noah, D., Drenzek, C.,
Smith, J.S., & Rupprecht, C. E.  (1997). Surveillance and spatiotemporal
associations of rabies in rodents and lagomorphs in the United States,
1985-1994. Journal of Wildlife Diseases, 33(1), 20-27.
MaryL - 19 Oct 2004 06:18 GMT
> >By the time animal control
> >arrived, the opossum was either comatose or dead.  The report later came
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> sell more products and services. This is where a lot of the misconceptions
> start.

Thanks.  This does make sense.  I was surprised by the report because I did
know that rabies very rare in opossums.  We have had rabies in this area
(East Texas) on some occasions, but usually in bats or skunks.

MaryL
Betsy - 19 Oct 2004 16:10 GMT
Thanks to all.  Since Mary is a squirrel rehabber, I pointed the question to
her, and although I thank the others for their contributions, I suspect she
*knows her stuff*.

The squirrel acted perfectly normal--terrified!  It had just started to
develop its tail fur so I guess it was more than a few days old--maybe a few
weeks?

> >By the time animal control
>>arrived, the opossum was either comatose or dead.  The report later came
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> Where I live bats are the number one culprit.
> http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/rabies/
Nomen Nescio - 19 Oct 2004 05:10 GMT
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

From: mmmaryinla@aol.comspam (Mary)

>>I wonder if I should have any concern over these nibbles?  I'm up on my
>>tetanus shots, and don't believe squirrels carry rabies, do they?
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>few times and never had a problem. You're more likely to get rabies from your
>cat or dog.

I'm no expert, but I'm not sure I buy all that. My understanding is that any
mammal, even humans, is capable of transmitting rabies. My cat just
recently made it through his 6 month rabies quarantine, so I've recently
done a bit of research and asked a bunch of questions about rabies.

My Understanding:
Rabies travels through the nerves from the bite location to the brain and
when it gets there, death occurs within 10 days and usually within 5. An
animal can carry rabies for as much as a year for a large animal with a
bite in the hind end, but is not able to transmit it until the last 10 days
when the virus moves into the salivary glands. If you are bitten, and the
animal is still alive 2 weeks later, you will not get rabies even if the animal
is infected.
A bite from a potentially rabid animal is considered a medical "urgency"
and not a medical "emergency". If the baby squirrel has distinct markings
and is seen regularly, watch it for 2 weeks. If it's still around and looks healthy,
you're safe.
I would say, though, due to the fact that rabies is 100% fatal in humans
when symptoms appear, you should check with the Health Dept. or local
hospital to see if they advise you to start the shots.
Rabies shots used to be a series of painful injections into the stomach,
but now it's just a half dozen shots in the arm according to a defined
schedule. After you get them, you're considered immunized against rabies.

I hope Mary is right about squirrels not being carriers. But due to the fatality
rate, I'd check with the medical authorities to be sure. It'll give you peace of
mind, if nothing else.
I'd never bet my life on anything I read in a newsgroup.
Rrb - 19 Oct 2004 05:47 GMT
> My cats brought in a baby squirrel and I saved its neck (a scene that looked
> like the silliest slapstick movie you can imagine, up and down two levels of
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Thanks.

If you haven't done so already call your doctor. No sense taking
chances. Plus alot depends on how long ago your tetanus shot was received.
Mary - 19 Oct 2004 06:13 GMT
>If you haven't done so already call your doctor. No sense taking
>chances. Plus alot depends on how long ago your tetanus shot was received.

The only thing that can help someone is rabies pre-exposure shots. Most
wildlife vets, rehabbers have gotten these shots. You must check your titer
every couple of years and get new shots if needed. Even if you have the
pre-exposure shots, you may still may need rabies shots if you have definitely
been bitten by a rabid animal.
MarAzul - 19 Oct 2004 07:44 GMT
>> My cats brought in a baby squirrel and I saved its neck (a scene that
>> looked like the silliest slapstick movie you can imagine, up and down two
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> If you haven't done so already call your doctor. No sense taking chances.
> Plus alot depends on how long ago your tetanus shot was received.

Good advice as animal scratches/bites can easily become infected..

And technically, ANY animal can carry rabies....

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Sherry - 19 Oct 2004 15:27 GMT
>Date: 10/19/2004 1:44 AM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <dJ2dd.49678$hj.31818@fed1read07>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
>And technically, ANY animal can carry rabies....

Technically,but with some it's a rarity. A few years ago our vet treated a calf
that turned out to be rabid. The vets are always "vaccinated" though. I worry
about the shelter workers/volunteers -- the rabies titer vaccine, or whatever
you call it, is way too cost prohibitive for everyone who handles strange
animal to take one. But then, they probably have a better chance of being
struck by lightning than contracting rabies.

Sherry
Mary - 19 Oct 2004 21:10 GMT
>And technically, ANY animal can carry rabies....

Yes, this is true. Any mammal including humans can carry rabies. The thing is
the only way to test for it is to cut off the head of the animal or person and
send it to the lab. If we cut off the head of every animal or person who bit
someone, we'd have a lot of heads rolling around. We'd probably have to cut off
the head of all of our pets and children, maybe even significant others. If we
take a look at how it is spread, signs of infected animals, likelihood of
infected animals, we can act a bit more rationally. I just hate to see people
killing animals for no reason. Don't get me wrong, if a raccoon which is acting
erratically bites you and raccoons are the main vector animal in your area, go
lop off its head. But, if your neighbors kitten which has never been outdoors
bites you, which is normal kitten behavior, don't just kill it because the
chance of rabies is so extremely, extremely low. Quarantine instead.
Bill Stock - 19 Oct 2004 16:06 GMT
> My cats brought in a baby squirrel and I saved its neck (a scene that looked
> like the silliest slapstick movie you can imagine, up and down two levels of
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Thanks.

I was bitten twice by the same over exuberant squirrel and I'm fine. Other
than the urge to climb trees and eat peanut butter. I did learn a valuable
lesson though, Squirrels are as blind up close as cats. It mistook my finger
for a peanut. The second time I was a little slow disbursing it's snack and
it leapt off the ground for it's peanut.

I had the same concerns as you until I read the stats about squirrel size
and the likelihood of an infected squirrel surviving. We'd been feeding this
squirrel for a couple of years and it did not show any strange behaviour.
Other than hoping the cats (indoor) might give out her peanuts.
Mark - 19 Oct 2004 17:57 GMT
While you can't guarantee anything, to the best of my knowledge there's
never been a case of rabies in a human transmitted from a rodent. But I
still recommend you check with your MD.

Mark, DVM
> My cats brought in a baby squirrel and I saved its neck (a scene that looked
> like the silliest slapstick movie you can imagine, up and down two levels of
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Thanks.
Nicole H - 20 Oct 2004 21:30 GMT
Yes, squirrels can carry rabies but they are seldom infected.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabies

Nicole
> My cats brought in a baby squirrel and I saved its neck (a scene that looked
> like the silliest slapstick movie you can imagine, up and down two levels of
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Thanks.
Carey Gregory - 21 Oct 2004 03:11 GMT
>Yes, squirrels can carry rabies but they are seldom infected.
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabies

So seldom that you'll probably get nothing more than a yawn and "don't worry
about it" from your local health department.

But if this was a ground squirrel in the western US, plague would be a
serious consideration.
Nicole H - 21 Oct 2004 09:49 GMT
bubonic plague?  hubby has been vaccinated for that.  I have not.  LOL
BUT I don't go around messing w/creatures.  Just not my thing.
Nicole

> >Yes, squirrels can carry rabies but they are seldom infected.
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabies
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> But if this was a ground squirrel in the western US, plague would be a
> serious consideration.
Mary - 21 Oct 2004 18:23 GMT
>But if this was a ground squirrel in the western US, plague would be a
>serious consideration.  

It's ground squirrels and chipmunks at higher elevations that may carry bubonic
plague in their fleas. This is why you shouldn't let your cat or dog run free
in these areas. They may bring the flea to you. Because most of the population
of the earth was killed during three main bubonic plagues, at least 70% of us
are immune to it. The rest may get flu like symptoms. Only the very ill could
die from it if they didn't receive treatment, just like with a regular flu.
 
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