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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / October 2004Cruel Vet
Last week Monday I took my cat to the Vet because his stomach was bloated (before I had thought it was weight gain). It was a 10:00am appointment, and we got there 9:55am. There was no one in the waiting room, and it seemed there was no patients there except us. 11:20am the Vet finally came in, he checked his ears, his mouth, and eyes... wrote some stuff down and then left the room for 30-minutes. He came back to take an X-Ray of my cat (which cost $65 plus $35 for the visit), then I had to wait 55-minutes for the results. When he came back with the results he said "Whiskas" has fluid in his abdomen and it looks serious. He said the cost of this will be $250 to drain the fluid, and $325 to run tests and a Ultrasound. Well, I didn't have the money in hand for him to drain the fluid. So, since I didn't have the money right away I had to take Whiskas home but was planning to bring him back on Friday when I had the money. The next 2 days Whiskas started to have trouble walking because of the amount of fluid. Then on Thursday morning around 9:00am Whiskas started shaking and gotten very weak then went unconscious but with his eyes open and breathing hard. I rushed him to the Vet and told the lady at the desk of the emergency. Se gave my a form to fill out and then went in the back all the while my cat is in the kennel unconscious. After filling out the form I tapped the bell bell on the desk, she came back and took the form. I went and sat down and waited for 5-minutes until she called me in. Even when I went in with Whiskas "still unconscious" the Vet still hasn't showed up and it's been about 10-minutes. When he finally came he said "Whiskas really looks pretty bad". He checked his heart, his eyes, and his ears... looked at me and said "Whiskas is on the verge on dying" but said his heart was fine. Then suggested me to have him put to sleep. He left the room and I am so confused, angry, and sad all at the same time at how my cat was treated. It took me about 10-minutes to make the decision to have him put down and the Vet did. As soon as he did put him down he immediately said "You have to pay the cost of the visit plus the cost of putting him down." My question is why wasn't my cat immediately taken in and "worked on" to revive him, etc? They call themselves a "Hospital" but yet they didn't act like one. The place seemed "empty" like he didn't have many patients go to him. I watch "Emergency Vets" on the "Animal Planet" channel and they acted like a real hospital. The owners didn't have to pay upfront when they brought in their sick pet, so why was I my cat treated like this? Even when I brought him in last Monday, the doctor shouldn't refuse him treatment just because I didn't have the money on hand. Since it was an emergency they could of drained the fluid, and then ran tests, the give me the bill. They way they acted was like my cat was a "thing" such as a car that nees "repair" but I have to have the money upfront in order to get work done. Are they that money hungry and cruel? He certainly didn't ask for money upfront to have him put down though. I just don't understand. He did NOTHING to see what was wrong with my cat, all he did was checked his ears, and his chest then tells me he is dying when his heart was beating fine. I am very pissed off. My cat was 11-years old, and could have lived if only the Vet took care of him last Monday. >My question is why wasn't my cat immediately taken in and "worked on" to >revive him, etc? I think the vet thought that he would probably treat your cat, not get paid, then your cat would die anyway because of the underlying cause of fluid buildup and he'd never be paid. I think he should have been more upfront with you, your cats condition and his chance for survival. I'm sorry you had to experience this besides the loss of your cat. I definitely understand why you're upset. I would be also. I'm in Los Angeles, California and I've never been asked to pay ahead of time for services. > >My question is why wasn't my cat immediately taken in and "worked on" to > >revive him, etc? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I'm in Los Angeles, California and I've never been asked to pay ahead of time > for services. I went to a veterinary conference in Atlantic City a few years ago with my vet. After the lectures, we overheard a few young vets at the bar (who had a little too much to drink) actually talking about how they "judge" clients' ability to pay! My vet almost had to muzzle me and drag me away. I was enraged. The bottom of their discussion: If your cat's life is at stake and you're a little short of cash, keep a counterfeit Rolex near the carrier and wear your best clothes to the emergency vet... Phil >your cat's life is at stake and you're a >little short of cash, keep a counterfeit Rolex near the carrier and wear >your best clothes to the emergency vet... > >Phil Better yet, how about understanding the responsibility and expense of pet ownership, and having a credit card or emergency fund for such instances. How about having an ongoing relationship with a vet for your pet, so they know you when you arrive and have a stake in the well being of your pet? How about going to an animal ER instead of a regular vet (who it doesn't seem the OP had been to before?). I'm lucky to have several veterinary ERs in my area. ALL of them state the ER fee up front. I go prepared to pay that fee plus whatever it takes for diagnostics or treatment - that's my responsibility as a pet owner. As luck would have it, most of the visits I've made to vet ERs have been at some ungodly hour. That means I'm certainly not dressed in my Sunday best - If I have a watch at all, it's a Timex or such. Rarely time to put on jewelry, makeup, or "nice clothes" (and if we're dealing with a sick animal, ratty clothes are generally more appropriate!). I go in with full knowledge that this visit will cost me though. To do otherwise is pretty naive. None of us knows whether this cat had any chance of survival. It sure wasn't helped when the OP chose to take his very sick cat home for 4 more days. Why not go beg, borrow and grovel for money MONDAY? And get that cat back to a vet asap? Easy to blame the "money grubbing vet" (most vets don't make a whole helluva lot of money), when ultimately, the owner has a huge responsibility they have failed to live up to. Janet Boss http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com/ http://photos.yahoo.com/bestfriendsobedience > >your cat's life is at stake and you're a > >little short of cash, keep a counterfeit Rolex near the carrier and wear [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Better yet, how about understanding the responsibility and expense of pet > ownership, <self-righteous, sanctimonious crap snipped> As hard as it may be for you to believe, some people have financial difficulties from time to time and live paycheck to paycheck - so give the self-righteous crap a rest. "Phil" wrote: >As hard as it may be for you to believe, some people have financial >difficulties from time to time and live paycheck to paycheck - so give the >self-righteous crap a rest. But it's ok to condemn a vet on some hearsay, and to ignore the fact that pet ownership IS a financial responsibility? Yes, we all have our financial limits. And we all have to be able to willing to deal with the consequences of those. Facts of life. If you remember, you condemned me for making a choice not to spend $1000+ for an MRI to rule out a brain tumor. Hmmm - seems a tad hypocritical of you. Janet Boss http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com/ http://photos.yahoo.com/bestfriendsobedience > "Phil" wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > But it's ok to condemn a vet on some hearsay, How it is hearsay - the poster is explaining what happened to *herself*? > Yes, we all have our financial limits. And we all have to be able to willing > to deal with the consequences of those. Facts of life. > > If you remember, you condemned me for making a choice not to spend $1000+ for > an MRI to rule out a brain tumor. Hmmm - seems a tad hypocritical of you. I figured you were making plenty of money teaching people how to choke their dogs with spike collars - so you could afford it if you wanted to >Easy to blame the "money grubbing vet" (most vets don't make a whole helluva >lot of money), when ultimately, the owner has a huge responsibility they have >failed to live up to. I disagree. Most vets *do* make a whole helluva lot of money, and IMO the ones I use are particularly guilty of exhorbitant mark-ups on take-home meds. Again, in my opinion, it doesn't bankrupt them to perform a Samaritan act once in a while. I"m sure most of them *do*, whether it's freebie work for shelters or for individuals. I don't. And treating a client with compassion and respect is free. The vet was a jerk. >I disagree. Most vets *do* make a whole helluva lot of money, and IMO the >ones >I use are particularly guilty of exhorbitant mark-ups on take-home meds. Maybe we have different ideas of what constitues a helluva lot of money. My vet is very good at finding me the cheapest way to get meds. >Again, >in my opinion, it doesn't bankrupt them to perform a Samaritan act once in a >while. And we really don't know that this vet hadn't performed 10 of those in the same week! > And treating a client with compassion and respect >is >free. The vet was a jerk. I don't know that we know how the vet treated this person. Did they have a client/business owner relationship before this? Was the OP rational? I have always been given quotes on major bills, and outlined what it all means. My choices may make the difference in my animal's life, and I'm always aware of that. I didn't read anything clear from the OP that the vet was rude or nasty - being kept waiting can make things seem as they are not. The vet may be a jerk, he may not be. He may have been working on another animal when the OP came in - who knows? That doesn't take away the need to understand responsibility when we have pets. Janet Boss http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com/ http://photos.yahoo.com/bestfriendsobedience >>I disagree. Most vets *do* make a whole helluva lot of money, and IMO the >>ones [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >I don't know that we know how the vet treated this person. Did they have a >client/business owner relationship before this? Was the OP rational? Do you see any indication that the OP was *not* rational? Does it make a difference whether the client is a "regular client" as the level of courtesy issued? Have you ever had to sit in the waiting room with a dying animal, or were you at least taken to an exam room? The OP says h/she would have had the money on Friday. Think it would have bankrupted the vet to accept a post-dated check? Sherry sriddles@aol.comkitty (Sherry ) dreams >Think it would have >bankrupted the vet to accept a >post-dated check? If there is no previous relationship between vet & client, vet does not know if funds are really available or check will bounce. > sriddles@aol.comkitty (Sherry ) dreams > >Think it would have > >bankrupted the vet to accept a >post-dated check? > > If there is no previous relationship between vet & client, vet does not know if funds are really available or check will bounce. READING COMPREHENSION, genius. The OP has been going to this vet for three years. Why bother replying to posts you have not read? Do you like the sound of your own voice that much? >sriddles@aol.comkitty (Sherry ) dreams >>Think it would have [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >if >funds are really available or check will bounce. She already was a client, ya twit. Sherry > >sriddles@aol.comkitty (Sherry ) dreams > >>Think it would have [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > She already was a client, ya twit. Since 2001. I think Shooting Fish in a Barrel ought to be allowed in the Olympics. Luvscats/hatestheirpaws00 is already our trainer. >Do you see any indication that the OP was *not* rational? Does it make a >difference whether the client is a "regular client" as the level of courtesy >issued? we really don't know what the tone of the conversation was, do we? Do we know if time is exaggerated by anguish? I;m saying that readers are condemning the vet and letting the OP play the victim - it's rarely that simple. >Have you ever had to sit in the waiting room with a dying animal, or >were you at least taken to an exam room? If I had a dying animal, I was at the vet for euthanasia or at an emergency vet. >The OP says h/she would have had the money on Friday. Think it would have >bankrupted the vet to accept a post-dated check? Did the OP ASK? Here's what the OP said: "Well, I didn't have the money in hand for him to drain the fluid. So, since I didn't have the money right away I had to take Whiskas home but was planning to bring him back on Friday when I had the money. The next 2 days Whiskas started to have trouble walking because of the amount of fluid. " It doesn't say ANYTHING about asking for billing or possibilities. It reads like the OP made a choice. If I'm given a surgical estimate, I am expected to pay for it SOMEHOW when I pick up the pet. Animals are abandoned at vets all too often due to an owner's inability or unwillingness to pay. The OP was given a fee. The OP CHOSE to postpone treatment due to finances (which may not be much of a choice, not doubt about it). That doesn't make the vet evil. We don't KNOW the conversation that actually went on, but everyone here seems willing to think the vet is the devil incarnate and the OP is a total victim. I hear too many victim stories to believe that. Janet Boss http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com/ http://photos.yahoo.com/bestfriendsobedience Janet, The vet wanted the money FIRST... before he would do any draining and preform tests. The bottom line is this, he knew what he saw on the X-Ray wasn't normal... and he didn't want to drain the fluid unless I had the money *IN HAND* that day. I paid him cash for the visit and X-Ray AFTER he did the service. Usually when someone in a newgroup sides with the vet when he was clearly WRONG... I can't help but wonder if this person is a vet themselve and can't stand to hear the truth that some vets are plain cruel and care only about money. And I've been taking Whiskas there annually since 2001, how "often" do we have to take our pets to the vet in order to establish a relationship? > The bottom line is this, he knew what he saw on the X-Ray wasn't > normal... and he didn't want to drain the fluid unless I had the money > *IN HAND* that day. What about using a credit card? (Even if you usually pay it off every month, for a large emergency bill at least the bill can be paid & you can worry about paying it off in increments later.) I paid him cash for the visit and X-Ray AFTER he did > the service. > > Usually when someone in a newgroup sides with the vet when he was > clearly WRONG... I can't help but wonder if this person is a vet > themselve and can't stand to hear the truth that some vets are plain > cruel and care only about money. The thing is... we are hearing this through you; no one here witnessed it, & therefore no one here can have a truly objective viewpoint. They're only going on how they are "reading" your account of the situation. People who come to the ng with a complaint about a vet may: 1) have a perfectly valid complaint, 2) have a semi-valid complaint, 3) have no validity to their complaint, or 4) they may even be making the whole thing up - for who knows what reason. We have seen all sorts of posts over the years. I try to be at least somewhat non-cynical, but after seeing some very one-sided posts (people who are very upset aren't always all that rational) , or even what turned out to be purely fictional sob stories... I tend to reserve judgment one way or the other, at least to a degree. At any rate, AFAIK, no one who's replied to you so far is a vet. Cathy Cathy writes: >People who come to the ng with a complaint about a vet may: 1) have a >perfectly valid complaint, 2) have a semi-valid complaint, 3) have no [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >rational) , or even what turned out to be purely fictional sob stories... I >tend to reserve judgment one way or the other, at least to a degree. I was beginning to think I was the only one who questioned a new poster and their rant. There are 2 sides to every story. FWIW - interesting that the OP has $170 to pay for "Saturday Supercade" video tapes, but not a fund for her aging cat. Janet Boss http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com/ http://photos.yahoo.com/bestfriendsobedience Janet writes: "FWIW - interesting that the OP has $170 to pay for "Saturday Supercade" video tapes, but not a fund for her aging cat." That was months ago. Gee, talk about adding "insult to injury." What does my post to a different newsgroup has to do with this current thread? You are trying to find any shred of evidence to say that I'm at fault. >You are trying to find any shred of evidence to say that I'm at >fault. Nope - was merely curious if you had a posting history here before, and that came up. The fact is, financial responsibility is very real in the adult world, and it's something to think about when owning a pet. Janet Boss http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com/ http://photos.yahoo.com/bestfriendsobedience > Janet writes: > "FWIW - interesting that the OP has $170 to pay for "Saturday Supercade" [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > thread? You are trying to find any shred of evidence to say that I'm at > fault. Ignore the idiot. FWIW, I think your vet was WRONG (as I stared in my other post) and if you can't come here for input/sympathy, where can you go? This ng harbors a few asholes, but overall, you will find compassion here. Please know that at least some of us care. -L. > > Janet writes: > > "FWIW - interesting that the OP has $170 to pay for "Saturday Supercade" [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > -L. Whether or not you are partially referring to me, I don't know. If so, I see nothing wrong in being a realist: some people truly have legitimate complaints, & some don't. I don't know into which category the present situation falls; seems like a bit of each, IMO, leaning more towards the valid side. There have been times here in the past when people said in reply posts, "Oh, no! Poor, poor you; that's terrible!", only to be covered with egg and/or indignant & P.O.ed later, when it transpired that the OPs had been full of baloney: either the situation had never occurred, or else was actually quite different than originally related. If you were not referring to me, then feel free to just ignore this post. ;-) Cathy >>People who come to the ng with a complaint about a vet may: 1) have a >>perfectly valid complaint, 2) have a semi-valid complaint, 3) have no [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Janet Boss What a slimeball thing to do. Let me get this straight. You're searching GOOGLE for some shred of damning evidence just so you can turn the screws a little deeper on a grieving cat owner? So you can somehow defend some vet that you don't even know? I've seen some bottom-feeding posters before. But you take the prize. If I *ever* become so mean-spirited, that I would stoop to your level just to prove a point, somebody euthanize *me*. Quick. Sherry >'somebody euthanize *me*. Quick." Sherry Yeah Let me ask you this, Janet. Was this vet also correct in having us wait in the waiting room, and futhermore, waiting in the exam room when it was an emergency? My cat was in the kennel dying, and they didn't take it seriously. Unlike the television show "Emergency Vet", this vet hospital didn't rush him immediately to the operating bed to try to revive him. He didn't do anything but suggest me to have him euthanized. His hospital offered emergency service, but it wasn't the type of "emergency service" I thought it was. I've envisioned my cat being helped immediately at his arrival and worked on. The entire time there was "slow paced" and no motivation to help. Go check out his website, he specializes in treating "ears". And while my cat laid unconscious with his eyes open, what does this vet do? He looks in his EARS, when the problem wasn't his ears. I've gotten the impression (thinking back) that he was "pretending" to be doing something when in reality done nothing. Does anyone have a website or a phone number to the Humane Society or the Vet Board so I can report this guy? I am getting madder the more I think about it. >From: whiskas51@webtv.net (S S) >Let me ask you this, Janet. Was this vet also correct in having us wait >in the waiting room, and futhermore, waiting in the exam room when it >was an emergency? My cat was in the kennel dying, and they didn't take >it seriously. I wasn't there, so I really have no idea what was going on. May have been neglect, may not have been. I'm only hearing a grieving (and rightfully so) owner's recollection. >Unlike the television show "Emergency Vet", this vet hospital didn't >rush him immediately to the operating bed to try to revive him. TV is interesting - film what you want, cut the rest. I know that lawyers have problems with all the forensics stuff on TV, that just doesn't exist in real life. Also, and EMERGENCY VET is setup for emergencies, and many regular vets are not. He >didn't do anything but suggest me to have him euthanized. I was under the impression that he said he needed fluid drained and an ultra-sound in order to find out was was actually wrong. >Go check out his website, he specializes in treating "ears". I don't know what his website IS, but I have to say, I've never heard of ears as a specialty to the exclusivity of all else. > And while >my cat laid unconscious with his eyes open, what does this vet do? He >looks in his EARS, when the problem wasn't his ears. I've gotten the >impression (thinking back) that he was "pretending" to be doing >something when in reality done nothing. Overall check is always appropriate. Once again, I wasn't there. >Does anyone have a website or a phone number to the Humane Society or >the Vet Board so I can report this guy? I am getting madder the more I >think about it. AAHA. HSUS rarely gets involved with this sort of thing. Make sure you're well documented and have a legitmate (legally) complaint. Janet Boss http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com/ http://photos.yahoo.com/bestfriendsobedience > Also, and EMERGENCY VET is setup for emergencies, and many regular vets > are not. I went to an emergency veterinary hospital (all they take are emergencies) with Hodge when he had an off-the-scale fever, tongue lolling, listless, hot to the touch, not biting, and he was assessed after about a half hour and admitted after about an hour or so. That was about what I would have expected. TV isn't anything like real life.  Signaturehttp://www.mindspring.com/~slywy/ >TV isn't anything like real life. Heck - even the human ER is nothing like TV shows! Unless you arrive by ambulance, you can wait for triage for quite sometime, and then a bunch more after that. I remember several years ago, going to the ER with a horrible asthma attack. I waited and suffered quite a bit, and someone else was taken immediately, because he sat down outside and didn't come in under his own steam. He was in much better shape than I was, and was in (and OUT) in no time. I was there for the long haul. Any ER visits since, I have been less stoic about getting there myself, and even arriving needing a wheelchair makes treatment a whole lot faster. Janet Boss http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com/ http://photos.yahoo.com/bestfriendsobedience > >TV isn't anything like real life. > > Heck - even the human ER is nothing like TV shows! Unless you arrive by > ambulance, you can wait for triage for quite sometime, and then a bunch more > after that. Well, I was going to mention that I once sat in ER for three hours, but then I wasn't spurting blood or clutching my chest. Signaturehttp://www.mindspring.com/~slywy/ >You're searching GOOGLE >for some shred of damning evidence just so you can turn the screws a little >deeper on a grieving cat owner? So you can somehow defend some vet that you >don't even know? Nope - I merely looked to see if she had a posting history - it just popped up. Janet Boss http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com/ http://photos.yahoo.com/bestfriendsobedience > >>People who come to the ng with a complaint about a vet may: 1) have a > >>perfectly valid complaint, 2) have a semi-valid complaint, 3) have no [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Sherry For some reaon this ng has become assholio central lately. I seriously can't believe some people. -L. > > >>People who come to the ng with a complaint about a vet may: 1) have a > > >>perfectly valid complaint, 2) have a semi-valid complaint, 3) have no [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > -L. *bahahahahahaha!* Says the Original a.shole. > >>People who come to the ng with a complaint about a vet may: 1) have a > >>perfectly valid complaint, 2) have a semi-valid complaint, 3) have no [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Sherry I don't think you ever would but "L" sure is. >>Janet Boss > >What a slimeball thing to do. Let me get this straight. You're searching >for some shred of damning evidence just so you can turn the screws a little >deeper on a grieving cat owner?.... Excellent post. THANK YOU. >From: whiskas51@webtv.net (S S) >Janet, >The vet wanted the money FIRST... before he would do any draining and >preform tests. I must have misread - I thought he did the x-ray before payment, but told you the fee. I've had vets ask for a deposit on a procedure, which I don't find inappropriate or unusual, but not the whole fee up front. In another of your posts, I think it may have indicated that may have been the case (deposit, with understanding balance due immediately upon completion?). Granted, a few days doesn't give a lot of help, but something anyway. >The bottom line is this, he knew what he saw on the X-Ray wasn't >normal... and he didn't want to drain the fluid unless I had the money >*IN HAND* that day. I paid him cash for the visit and X-Ray AFTER he did >the service. He was going to drain that day and expect payment. I don't see that as unusual. Maybe not the best table-side manner, but not "cruel" necessarily either. >Usually when someone in a newgroup sides with the vet when he was >clearly WRONG... I can't help but wonder if this person is a vet >themselve and can't stand to hear the truth that some vets are plain >cruel and care only about money. Not a vet. Have used many vets. Some I've liked, some I have not. we have 2 particular practices in my area where I wouldn't take an animal for anything, and indeed believe they are money grubbing! But I also know what a good relationship with a vet can be, and thank goodness for my vet, who I drive an hour to see. > And I've been taking Whiskas there >annually since 2001, how "often" do we have to take our pets to the vet >in order to establish a relationship? Annually for the most part. Some of us wind up seeing he vet more often than we would like :-(. I am truly sorry for you loss of Whiska's. It's a horrible thing to have difficult decisions, whether those decisions are made on the basis of financial constraints or dealing with the life span and disease realities we have with our beloved pets. The more pets we have, the more we have to be faced with decisions - I sure don't like having to make choices knowing that I don't have 100% emotional and financial resources at the time. Both are factors though, and sometimes, it really sucks. Janet Boss http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com/ http://photos.yahoo.com/bestfriendsobedience >>Do you see any indication that the OP was *not* rational? Does it make a >>difference whether the client is a "regular client" as the level of courtesy [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > >Janet Boss If, at her age, you would have had the foresight to take the cat to exactly the right ER, had a savings account specially earmarked for cat emergencies, and had the wits about you while your cat was dying to ask exactly the right questions, you're a hell of a lot smarter and more mature than I was. You call it "playing the victim." I see a girl who is absolutely heartbroken over losing her childhood cat and is suffering, and I see you assuming that she's a deadbeat who would have never made good on the bill, and who is exaggerating the story. Sorry, but I don't agree. Sherry > >>Do you see any indication that the OP was *not* rational? Does it make a > >>difference whether the client is a "regular client" as the level of courtesy [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > If, at her age, you would have had the foresight to take the cat to exactly the right ER, had a savings account specially earmarked for cat emergencies, andhad the wits about you while your cat was dying to ask exactly the right > questions, you're a hell of a lot smarter and more mature than I was. You call it "playing the victim." I see a girl who is absolutely heartbroken over losing her childhood cat and is suffering, and I see you assuming that she's a > deadbeat who would have never made good on the bill, and who is exaggerating the story. Sorry, but I don't agree. > Sherry Well said, Sherry. >If, at her age, you would have had the foresight to take the cat to exactly >the >right ER, had a savings account specially earmarked for cat emergencies, and >had the wits about you while your cat was dying to ask exactly the right >questions, you're a hell of a lot smarter and more mature than I was. At her age, I had a job, had been married for about a year, and had my 9 year old childhood dog as my responsibility. And paid emergency bills for him, yes. > You >call [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >deadbeat who would have never made good on the bill, and who is exaggerating >the story. Sorry, but I don't agree. I never said that she was a deadbeat who never made good on a bill - you're putting words in my mouth. I'm saying that vets and other professionals get tired of being stiffed, and when someone SAYS they have no money (and they have no credit either), that isn't so simple. Janet Boss http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com/ http://photos.yahoo.com/bestfriendsobedience >> You >>call [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >I never said that she was a deadbeat who never made good on a bill - you're >putting words in my mouth. You didn't read what I wrote. I said you're assuming she is a deadbeat who WOULD HAVE NEVER made good on the bill. You're assuming, had she been extended credit, she wouldn't have paid--sheerly by your apparent defense of the vet for doing the right thing by not extending credit. Sherry >You're assuming, had she been extended >credit, she wouldn't have paid--sheerly by your apparent defense of the vet >for >doing the right thing by not extending credit. > >Sherry I don't know whether this person is good for the money or not, how could I? But how could the vet either? How can the vet know if the hords of people who come through his door are. It's still a business, not a charity organization. Janet Boss http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com/ http://photos.yahoo.com/bestfriendsobedience >At her age, I had a job, had been married for about a year, and had my 9 year >old childhood dog as my responsibility. And paid emergency bills for him, >yes. Once again Janet starts out on third and acts like she hit a homerun. Go, girl~ > >At her age, I had a job, had been married for about a year, and had my 9 year > >old childhood dog as my responsibility. And paid emergency bills for him, > >yes. > > Once again Janet starts out on third and acts like she hit a homerun. Go, > girl~ She had a nine year old at age 23. Definite sign of genius, to get pregnant at 13. > > >At her age, I had a job, had been married for about a year, and had my 9 > year [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > She had a nine year old at age 23. Definite sign of genius, to get pregnant > at 13. Had her 9 year old DOG at 23. I had a dog when I was 13. I don't think I'm overly non-genius material. If you're going to nit-pick, at least read the post. ;) Signature-- ~kaeli~ Practice safe eating - always use condiments. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace > > > >At her age, I had a job, had been married for about a year, and had my 9 > > year [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Had her 9 year old DOG at 23. I had a dog when I was 13. I don't think I'm overly non-genius material. > If you're going to nit-pick, at least read the post. ;) Picky, picky, picky. :-) >She had a nine year old at age 23. Definite sign of genius, to get pregnant >at 13. I had a nine year old ***DOG*** when I was 23. I wasn't able to become pregnant at the tender age of 13. Janet Boss http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com/ http://photos.yahoo.com/bestfriendsobedience > >She had a nine year old at age 23. Definite sign of genius, to get pregnant > >at 13. > > I had a nine year old ***DOG*** when I was 23. I wasn't able to become > pregnant at the tender age of 13. Sorry. Speedreading again. Take #2 Sherry wrote:> >If, at her age, you would have had the foresight to take the cat to exactly >the >right ER, had a savings account specially earmarked for cat emergencies, and >had the wits about you while your cat was dying to ask exactly the right >questions, you're a hell of a lot smarter and more mature than I was. I was just thinking more about this. At 22, shortly after getting married, I moved my childhood dog 200 miles to live with me (in August in an un-a/c'd car, but I digress...),. He developed a prostate infection on the way (wasn't neutered - this was the 70's and no vet even hinted at it), and was urinating total blood by the time I arrived home. I had not established a vet yet obviously, and in those days, vets rotated ER service. So, off to the vet that was on that evening, and knew I had to be able to pay. We had to treat the infection before neutering of course, and I was sent home with meds and slept on the bathroom floor with Charlie, since he was still passing blood of course. Still - happier with me caring for him than overnight at a strange vet and the anti-biotics would kick in shortly. We made an appointment for neuter a few days later, and my father generously sent me the money for that. I could have paid for it, but it was a nice offering anyway, and accepted! If I hadn't had the money at all, I wouldn't have hesitated to call him, another family member, or even a good friend, and grovel for the money to get him well. It was my job. Janet Boss http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com/ http://photos.yahoo.com/bestfriendsobedience >Easy to blame the "money grubbing vet" (most vets don't make a whole helluva >lot of money), when ultimately, the owner has a huge responsibility they have >failed to live up to. The vet should have offered a payment plan upfront - making it clear that even if the cat did not survive the treatment, the owner would still be responsible for payment of services rendered. Your self-righteous recoil smacks of a person who wants for nothing. This kind of arrogance is particularly irritating. Now that you've paraded your financial superiority over one obviously grieving for the loss of their cat, I hope you feel better about yourself, c.nt. An incredibly rude person wrote: >The vet should have offered a payment plan upfront - making it clear that >even >if the cat did not survive the treatment, the owner would still be >responsible >for payment of services rendered. I think so many people get stiffed that just isn't very common anymore. IF the OP had a regular relationship with the vet, MAYBE. If not - I'm sure vets and business people get tired of losing money. >Your self-righteous recoil smacks of a person who wants for nothing. This >kind of arrogance is particularly irritating. Now that you've paraded your >financial superiority <snip inappropriate language> How charming of you. No financial superiority. Knowing limitations, understanding responsibility, and taking responsibility for the result without putting the blame on others is something we have to do as adults. Everyone's a victim and not responsible for their own shortcomings, right? Janet Boss http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com/ http://photos.yahoo.com/bestfriendsobedience > An incredibly rude person wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > OP had a regular relationship with the vet, MAYBE. If not - I'm sure vets and > business people get tired of losing money. IME, most vets will accept post-dated checks. I have found very few who will extend credit beyond that, though. They take credit cards - that's their compromise for those who are cash-poor. What I think the real issue here is, was that the vet failed to communicate the seriousness of the situation. He should have never let her take the cat home without communicating that the condition could not wait for treatment. If money was the issue, he should have suggested euthanasia, or referred the client to the nearest humane society. If an animal is that direly ill, it is suffering, or will suffer very soon, so prevention of that suffering becomes paramount. This vet failed miserably. > >Your self-righteous recoil smacks of a person who wants for nothing. This > >kind of arrogance is particularly irritating. Now that you've paraded your [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > putting the blame on others is something we have to do as adults. Everyone's >a > victim and not responsible for their own shortcomings, right? While I agree with you in theory, I think this particular vet lacked compassion on a number of fronts. It's never a black-and-white issue. And yes, Phil is right - vets make judgement calls about their client's ability to pay all the time. That's why I never fill in the blank for "occupation" or "employer" on their intake forms. I figure my ability to pay is *my* business only - and is for me to judge. Far too many vets offer unnecessary services or push diagnostics that simply aren't essential - and all the incentive they need is to see that I have a cushy job. In a perfect world, everyone who loves animals whould be able to afford adequate care for their companions. In the real world, there are many who simply scrape by and do the best they can. Good vets recognize this and try to work with people, or set up slush funds for charity cases. -L. > And yes, Phil is right - vets make judgement calls about their > client's ability to pay all the time. That's why I never fill in the > blank for "occupation" or "employer" on their intake forms. I figure > my ability to pay is *my* business only - and is for me to judge. Smart play. Why would a vet need to know your occupation if not to gauge your ability to pay? Far > too many vets offer unnecessary services or push diagnostics that > simply aren't essential - and all the incentive they need is to see > that I have a cushy job. Too many vets will advise a battery of tests of which the results would have absolutely no impact on treatment or outcome. > In a perfect world, everyone who loves animals whould be able to > afford adequate care for their companions. In the real world, there > are many who simply scrape by and do the best they can. Good vets > recognize this and try to work with people, or set up slush funds for > charity cases. Non payment is just like any other bad debt - its deductible. Phil > -L. >I think so many people get stiffed that just isn't very common anymore. IF >the >OP had a regular relationship with the vet, MAYBE. If not - I'm sure vets >and >business people get tired of losing money. She clearly stated she'd been using this veterinarian since 2001. A vet possessing a genuine concern for animals and sincere compassion for the people who love them would have offered payment options for a pet in critical condition. >How charming of you. No financial superiority. Knowing limitations, >understanding responsibility, and taking responsibility for the result >without >putting the blame on others is something we have to do as adults. Everyone's >a >victim and not responsible for their own shortcomings, right? Not everyone is a victim, Jesus jumping God, who said that? In this case the OP was not offered a full range of payment options. It is not up to a pet owner in despair to ask about the spectrum of options....not everyone possesses the wherewithal to inquire at such an emotionally devestating time. >How charming of you >Now that you've paraded your >>financial superiority <snip inappropriate language No less charming than a tedious old woman offering a pedantic lecture to a grieving pet owner. Congratulations. Absolutley rude Marie Whiskas wasn't ready to die, he died of NEGLECT! When I took him to the vet last Monday, he was purring, and rubbing himself on me while we waited on the doctor to come in. He was eating, using the litter up until Thursday morning. It was the vet's "neglect" that caused him to die. I never heard of getting a price quote from a doctor after an exam, then go back to the waiting room to IMMEDIATELY pay the lady at the desk... then go back in the exam room for treatment. Because I knew the total wasn't only going to be just for the draining of his stomach... but for his hospital stay, and maybe food. I was suppose to get the total when everything is COMPLETE and he is ready to be discharged. He knew the fluid had to come out immediately, but he only had money on his mind. He didn't ask for money upfront for the X-Ray though, he took his X-Ray then I paid for that and the visit on my way out. And just because I didn't have $250 for his stomach to be drained out (which was most important) and the tests to be done, he didn't keep him. He didn't care about Whiskas, it was all about $$$$. I had Whiskas since I was 12 years old (August of 1993) and he was only 6 weeks old. I'm now 23yrs old, and Whiskas was 11yrs old. It was a terrible end. I was so worried over Whiskas that I was unable to get angry at the vet at the time. I only had $10 on me that day, and it was to take the Taxi to the vet... but I didn't have money to get back home. Whiskas had been euthanized, and I took his empty kennel to the waiting room... then I called my brother to pick me up from there. Later we came back to pay the vet $215 for the cremation that we've gotten from a Cash Advance place. I didn't have enough to pay the visit, and for him to be put down... so the lady at the desk said she will send a bill for it. I don't think I am going to have another pet after this mess. It was a terrible experience, and it didn't seem real. When I got home I went into my bedroom and cried. Looking at the places on the floor he used to lay down just made me depressed. With every major or minor thing that ever happened in my life, Whiskas was always here from when I was 12... now the place is empty without him. I can't stop thinking about last Thursday. << I don't think I am going to have another pet after this mess. >> It was a terrible experience but someday the pain won't be as terrible or raw for you and you may decide you want the companionship of another animal. << I can't stop thinking about last Thursday. >> It's still very new to you. It won't always be this painful...really. You gave Whiskas 11 good years and it's sad it ended this way but he knew he was loved. Candace (take the litter out before replying by e-mail) See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace "One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other than human." (Loren Eisely) > Whiskas wasn't ready to die, he died of NEGLECT! > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > now the place is empty without him. I can't stop thinking about last > Thursday. I'm so sorry, honey. This a.shole took advantage of your youth and your despair. I will be calling him. whiskas51@webtv.net (S S) writes >I never heard of getting a price >quote from a doctor after an exam, then >go back to the waiting room to >IMMEDIATELY pay the lady at the >desk... >then go back in the exam room for >treatment. Trylon Animal Care in Rego Park, NY...possibly the sister facility in Long Island, NY. I'm sure that since both facilities are run by brothers (and one brother is President of a vet group) it's not an unusual practice. It sounds like we have another vet out there that cares more about the almighty dollar than the animal. I have never had to pay money up front before a vet did what was necessary to help my cats. I would have gotten a second opinion and taken the cat to another more reputable vet. Then I would have asked if they had a payment plan. As for the vet you brought him too, I would check with the Better Business Bureau to see if this vet you took your cat to had complaints against him. You might also have a case against this vet if you can prove that his lack of service contributed to possible death but this may be difficult because you chose to have the feline euthanized. Another possibility of a case is to complain to the Attorney Generals office in your state if they have a consumer affairs division. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com > > Last week Monday I took my cat to the Vet because his stomach was [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > beating fine. I am very pissed off. My cat was 11-years old, and could > have lived if only the Vet took care of him last Monday. > When he finally came he > said "Whiskas really looks pretty bad". He checked his heart, his eyes, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > down he immediately said "You have to pay the cost of the visit plus the > cost of putting him down." What an incredibly cruel thing to happen. This vet may even have contributed to Whiskas' death. At the very least, he caused unnecessary suffering. No vet has ever charged me for the cost of euthanasia. All considered this to be a contribution to ease suffering. More important, there is absolutely no excuse for having you wait as you described because that caused still more pain for Whiskas (and for you). Does this vet own the clinic, or is he part of a practice? If the latter, I would send a strong letter to other partners outlining the facts as you described them here. I would also contact groups such as your local Humane Society. They might have suggestions concerning any action that can be taken against this unethical vet. MaryL > What an incredibly cruel thing to happen. This vet may even have > contributed to Whiskas' death. At the very least, he caused unnecessary > suffering. No vet has ever charged me for the cost of euthanasia. Some vets "charge by the pound". They base their fee on the weight of the animal. This also applies to cremation or "disposal". Phil > > When he finally came he > > said "Whiskas really looks pretty bad". He checked his heart, his eyes, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > suffering. No vet has ever charged me for the cost of euthanasia. All > considered this to be a contribution to ease suffering. Whereas I have been charged both times for my cats' euthanasia procedures. A minor charge (approx. $25, IIRC), but.. it *is* a veterinary service - with the vet spending a good 30 minutes of her time (once, as an emergency, on Easter Sunday), so why wouldn't they charge for it? Cathy More important, > there is absolutely no excuse for having you wait as you described because > that caused still more pain for Whiskas (and for you). Does this vet own [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > MaryL > > > When he finally came he > > > said "Whiskas really looks pretty bad". He checked his heart, his eyes, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Cathy You are correct, and I didn't make myself clear. I would not have any objections to paying for euthanasia -- I was simply using my vet's attitude as a contrast to what happened to the OP. Of course, my vet has also cared for all of my cats for many years, and that creates a different relationship than what could reasonably be expected from an emergency vet. The element that I considered cruel and unconscionable was (1) the long delay, including sending Whiskas home with no information for treatment, and (2) the rather callous and cavalier attitude. It seems from the description that there was no compassion and almost no treatment. MaryL whiskas51@webtv.net (S S) writes >I watch "Emergency Vets" on the >"Animal Planet" channel and they >acted >like a real hospital. The owners >didn't have to pay upfront when they >brought in their sick pet, so why was I my cat treated like this I'm so very sorry to hear about Whiskas. Not only do you have the heartbreak of the loss of your cat, but the additional cruelty of the vet to deal with. You weren't treated right...nor was Whiskas. In times like this you might have not waited a couple of days to go back to this vert, you might have phoned around to other vets or hospitals or vet schools to get immediate attention. This might be helpful for the future. Please find comfort that you did the best you could under the circumstances. > Last week Monday I took my cat to the Vet because his stomach was > bloated (before I had thought it was weight gain). It was a 10:00am [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > beating fine. I am very pissed off. My cat was 11-years old, and could > have lived if only the Vet took care of him last Monday. Well, to be honest, I don't think we know if Whiskas could've lived or not. It is often very difficult to discern, via a news group. His condition reminds me somewhat of what one of my sister's dogs just went through. Bloat, no torsion, but the x-ray indicated small perforation; peritonitis had set in, & nothing could be done to save him. It is normal to be charged for euthanasia, but it's usually handled very tactfully - & from how you related it, this vet wasn't considerate & tactful about it. In fact, the last time one of my cats was euthanized, the vet went out to the front desk for me & arranged to have me billed later, through the mail. As I was reading your recounting of your experience, I was wondering if you could've put the first set of bills on a credit card? All in all, by how you've related this at any rate, it sounds to me like we can not in reality tell if anything could've been done to save Whiskas, or if it really could've. However, it does sound as if you weren't given much info to go on - that the vet-client communication should've been much better, & that the handling of the situation, client-vet wise, was on the crass/cold side. Cathy I'm very sorry about Whiskas. The vet sounds like a real a$$hole (and I stress the $$ part). I know vets do get stiffed sometimes but I'm surprised he didn't offer to work out a payment plan with you the first time you took him in considering that it was quite serious. In my experience, the vets I have gone to do not advertise that they will take a payment plan but if you're in a pinch, then they will. It helps to have some sort of a relationship established with a vet so that he/she will give you the benefit of the doubt should you ever need it. I'm sure your kitty had a good 11 years prior to this awful ending. It's very sad for you and, although it won't help Whiskas any, I would do what others have suggested and report the jerk-vet to the vet board, the humane society, the BBB, whoever... He's happy and whole again now and you will meet again someday. Candace (take the litter out before replying by e-mail) See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace "One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other than human." (Loren Eisely) I feel bad for the OP as well as Whiskas. This vet was not just an a.shole but an uncaring and unfeeling individual. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com > I'm very sorry about Whiskas. The vet sounds like a real a$$hole (and I > stress [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > other > than human." (Loren Eisely) > Last week Monday I took my cat to the Vet because his stomach was > bloated (before I had thought it was weight gain). It was a 10:00am [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > beating fine. I am very pissed off. My cat was 11-years old, and could > have lived if only the Vet took care of him last Monday. It sounds as though the vet diagnosed your cat with FIP, which is usually fatal. Knowing this, he offered to treat the animal (remove the fluid) in order to make it more comfortable. Did you ask that a payment plan be worked out so that the vet could treat your animal? Or did you just say "not right now" and take your cat home? When your cat inevitibly got worse, you brought it back in. You had already told the clinic that you couldn't pay for the fluid removal, so they were more aggressive in attempting to be paid for their services that you received. No, they weren't very sensitive about it, and no I don't agree that a grieving pet owner should be bulldozed then and there about the costs. But, veterinary care isn't free. It isn't even cheap anymore, what with all of the newfangled gadgets a vet is expected to have on hand in order to give the most up to date care to their patients. It's not unreasonable that a vet expects to be paid for their services, including euthanasia. And, it's not unreasonable that you would ask to speak to the clinic owner about how you were treated. >Last week Monday I took my cat to the Vet because his stomach was >bloated (before I had thought it was weight gain). It was a 10:00am >appointment, and we got there 9:55am. There was no one in the waiting >room, and it seemed there was no patients there except us. Could you post the name, address, and phone number of this vet and his/her practice -- just so that none of us accidentally go there?\ thanks eq I have been going to this vet since 2001, and I couldn't understand his coldness towards me and Whiskas. Prior to rushing Whiskas to the vet Thursday morning... I called him up describing the situation that he was shaking and lying down and not moving. Then he says: "I can understand him just laying there with that big belly because it's probably difficult for him to move around." He follows by saying: "I can drain his stomach but do you remember what I told you Monday? That it's going to cost $250?" I told him that I won't have it until Friday, then he said to bring him in. After I brought him in, the vet just had us wait, and when he came in the room he didn't do anything. NOTHING. He said he offers cremating services, then says if I wanted to have him cremated it would cost $45. BUT, if I wanted his ashes back it will cost me $215. Then he says: "Don't waste your money on getting the ashes back." He owns that Animal Hospital, his name is Dr. Spencer L. Ratnoff. He is located at: Oakland Park Animal Hospital 2200 W. Oakland Park Blvd. Fort Lauderdale, FL 33311 Phone number: (954) 731-4228 Fax number: (954) 731-4817 > I have been going to this vet since 2001, and I couldn't understand his > coldness towards me and Whiskas. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Phone number: (954) 731-4228 > Fax number: (954) 731-4817 You need to ditch this heinous SOB. He has forgotten why he became a vet, unless it has always been nothing but a money-making venture for him. > I have been going to this vet since 2001, and I couldn't understand his > coldness towards me and Whiskas. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > in. After I brought him in, the vet just had us wait, and when he came > in the room he didn't do anything. NOTHING. This makes no sense. Did you ask about how come he wasn't draining him? > He said he offers cremating services, then says if I wanted to have him > cremated it would cost $45. Yes, cremation costs the client: relatively little for mass cremations (what you were quoted would make sense), & more for private cremations - about $100 in this area. BUT, if I wanted his ashes back it will cost > me $215. Then he says: "Don't waste your money on getting the ashes > back." This part makes no sense to me, either - neither the surcharge, nor his recommendation (which is a personal decision). AFAIK, there is no difference in cost, as to whether on gets the ashes back or not. If there is, it'd be minimal, it'd seem to me - for the extra service of boxing them up, labeling the box, & returning it to the correct vet's office. Cathy > He owns that Animal Hospital, his name is Dr. Spencer L. Ratnoff. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Phone number: (954) 731-4228 > Fax number: (954) 731-4817 << AFAIK, there is no difference in cost, as to whether on gets the ashes back or not. If there is, it'd be minimal, it'd seem to me - for the extra service of boxing them up, labeling the box, & returning it to the correct vet's office. Cathy >> My understanding, from my personal experience, is that if you don't want the ashes back they do a mass cremation. However, you can then get ashes back but they will be your pets mixed in with other animals also. If you want your pet's ashes exclusively, then you have to pay for a private cremation and there is no additional charge to getting the ashes back but there is a significant difference in price between mass and private cremations. I guess I can't see the point in a private creamtion if you don't want the ashes; you might as well just go for the mass. Candace (take the litter out before replying by e-mail) See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace "One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other than human." (Loren Eisely) I have mixed emotions on this one. If one of my cats were to die then I'd probaby want the ashes back but then my metaphysical side would take over and I'd realize their body was only a shell now. Also, I have heard that animal cremation can be expensive. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com > My understanding, from my personal experience, is that if you don't want > the [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > other > than human." (Loren Eisely) >I have mixed emotions on this one. If one of my cats were to die then I'd >probaby want the ashes back but then my metaphysical side would take over >and I'd realize their body was only a shell now. Also, I have heard that >animal cremation can be expensive. I see. So your metaphysical side is the cheapskate one? Sherry > I have mixed emotions on this one. If one of my cats were to die then I'd > probaby want the ashes back but then my metaphysical side would take over > and I'd realize their body was only a shell now. Also, I have heard that > animal cremation can be expensive. Not very, IMO. $50 - give or take $10 -20 for mass cremation (incl. getting ashes back - though won't be 100% your own pet's); approx. $100 - give or take, for private - incl. getting the ashes back. Prices will vary acc. to general area, & vet's practivces/crematoriums used. Cathy > > My understanding, from my personal experience, is that if you don't want > > the [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > other > > than human." (Loren Eisely) > I have been going to this vet since 2001, and I couldn't understand his > coldness towards me and Whiskas. What type of services had you received from his office before? Regular visits for vaccines? Other health problems? Had you had difficulty paying the fees before? If you had a past history of non payment or slow payment, I can understand some reluctance on the vet's part to provide additional services for your animal, especially one that was ill with a terminal disease like FIP. When it came down to it though, the vet did provide the necessary euthanasia services to you even though you couldn't pay right at that moment. > Prior to rushing Whiskas to the vet Thursday morning... I called him up > describing the situation that he was shaking and lying down and not [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > in. After I brought him in, the vet just had us wait, and when he came > in the room he didn't do anything. NOTHING. A cat who has feline infectious peritonitis (FIP) has very little chance of surviving, even if the fluid is drained. Perhaps the vet did not communicate with you exactly how serious the condition was and exactly what you should expect whether or not you treated him. The vet DID tell you to bring him in, even knowing that you could not pay. That does sound as though he was willing to work with you on the financials. > He said he offers cremating services, then says if I wanted to have him > cremated it would cost $45. BUT, if I wanted his ashes back it will cost > me $215. Then he says: "Don't waste your money on getting the ashes > back." Yes, if you want your animal individually cremated and his specific ashes back, that's about the cost. Burying them in the back yard is free. I personally have a pet cemetary for my departed friends. > A cat who has feline infectious peritonitis (FIP) has very little chance of > surviving, even if the fluid is drained. How do you know the cat had FIP? There are several types of pleural effusions caused by several different disease processes some of which are treatable. Phil |
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