Then why don't you just f.ck off.  People here are cat lovers and don't enjoy
hearing from people who like to mutilate them.
________
See my cats:  http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecatjournal.com/articles/claws.htm

That is total bullshit.  Declawing entails amputating the third phlanx of each
toe along with the claw.  I have heard of this Banfield Hospital.  I can't
remember where but if I recall correctly, they are listed at the Declaw Hall of
Shame website.  They are lying to you pure and simple.  
________
See my cats:  http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecatjournal.com/articles/claws.htm

heh. Dumbass is more like it. Like you only get what you are "looking for"
in Usenet. Dickhead.

Ceb2 DOES NOT FEEL BAD, CP.

I have to agree with the group here. Knowingly declawing after have gathered
all the facts is disgusting. I have to wonder where your conscious was? It
wasn't as if these cats were declawed before you rescued them. Your having
these cats declawed was a very abusive act. It is sad that you would first
post your intentions of declawing but even sadder acting as if you are proud
of it. These cats depended on you to keep them safe and you violated their
trust. You should ashamed of yourself!

"ceb2" <svendlho@aol.com> wrote > To all of you:

got our cats? Princess was rescued from some bastard who never fixed or fed
his cats. Her mom was skin and bones, and so was she. Literally smaller than
a softball. She was our first. She cried all the time if I wasn't holding
her. We nursed

came from the Connecticut humane society. No one wanted her. She was mean,
aggressive, and hissed at any person or cat who came near her.

Grizabella came from the Waterbury CT dog pound. She ended up  there because
the pet store couldn't sell her. She was the runt of the

infection in her ears, worms, and kennel cough. That's right kennel cough.
We ended up medicating all of them, and she needed ear drops  for three
weeks.

And so you feel entitled to MUTILATE these poor babies who have been through
so much? What an a.shole.

surgery and all are doing fine. Tired but fine. They are all eating

Bullshit. Did you see them try to touch their toes to the floor and jerk and
flinch? Lying a.shole

Yeah, they are so wonderful you mutilated them.

What truly matters in this group are your cats and their welfare.  No matter
what your situation, choosing to declaw cats having all of the information
and help for alternatives available is indefensible.  You simply cannot
justify, ethically or medically, your choice to amputate the ends of your
cats' toes.

This is what is so mystifying. You had the heart to save these suffering
cats and yet you knowingly subject them to more pain and suffering for your
convenience. Have these poor animals not been through enough?

Making the decision to provide a home for abused, ill, and abandoned cats
only if they are declawed is unconscionable and it is not a sign of love or
compassion, no matter how you put it.

...snipped....

Why are we hypocrites? The welfare of cats is a top priority amongst the
majority here. Therefore, the inflicting of unnecessary pain and risk is
unacceptable.

Indeed because they are so wonderful, some of us are distressed that you
would choose to amputate the ends of their toes rather than provide them
with a feline-friendly environment where they can happily express
instinctive scratching behaviour.

That you were aware of what declawing entails, that you could access this
and other groups for help before making your choice, and that you chose to
declaw anyway makes it even more reprehensible.

M.

I'd prefer not to and the cat/s might take care of the biting.

For what you just spent on de-clawing these poor kittens you could have had
yourself the Taj Mahal of cat trees and your poor guys wouldn't have to be
at risk from the surgery, the pain, anesthesia (they had to be under longer
than if they were just in for a neutering) and potential after effects of
this procedure. For the cats sakes I hope their surgery goes well and they
heal without complication but you took a irreversible risk with these babies
without even giving them a chance to see if you could train them to use
their claws where appropriate.

I've fostered 18 kittens this summer. Their ages when they came in my home
ranged from 2 weeks to 3 mos old. 11 of them were older kittens who were
scared to death and didn't hesitate to scratch and bite at first. One of
them would leap across the cage hissing and trying to bite and scratch just
because someone looked at her.I also had to deal with health problems. They
all had ear mites and diarrhea. One litter was very underweight because
there mother was run over by a car before they were old enough to take care
of themselves adequately. Their inauspicious start didn't stop them from
learning how to live in a household without doing damage with their claws.
Every one of them learned to use the cat tree and scratching posts. None of
them use claws on people. They all let me clip their claws. They all will be
able to live in a home without doing damage with their claws providing their
people provide them with an appropriate scratching post/cat tree. It's very
easy to train young kittens to use a scratching post/cat tree. It's almost
as easy as litter training them and a lot easier than weaning them.  I can
only assume you didn't want to be bothered trying to teach them.

As I said I hope they are all right. I hope they don't end up biting or
urinating on your rugs or furniture. But you chose to take that risk and
there is no going back so it's really no wonder people have little patience
with your choice.

W

Oh well, some people never learn!
You walked into it with both eyes open.
re : The last sentence of your original post.
And now you are indignant about the people who raked you over the
coals.

Another leader in the making!

Then you shouldn't have maimed your cats.  That's right, *maim* - amputation
without benefit is *mayhem*.

So where in your above self-praising tribute are your "reasons" for
declawing innocent kittens?  I sure as hell didn't see any.   When you're
done singing your own praises please point out your "reasons".  From what
I've read, these kittens didn't even have a scratching problem.

Many of us have done - and continue to do, on a daily basis, as much, and
for some of us, much more than you have for cats yet we don't feel that
gives us the right to *maim* the cats we help.  Yes, you read that's right,
*maim* - amputation without benefit is *mayhem*.

We *damn* sure do have the right to condemn self-righteous, self-serving
a.sholes who knowing and intentionally inflict unnecessary pain and
privation upon innocent kittens for your own convenience.

We

...which you're making them pay for with their blood, bones, ligaments,
tendons and nerves as well as priviation.

Here's an excerpt from my site by  Dr. Nicholas Dodman, Professor of
Behavioral Pharmacology and Director of the Behavior Clinic at Tufts
University School of Veterinary Medicine and internationally known
specialist in domestic animal behavioral research:

"The inhumanity of the procedure is clearly demonstrated by the nature of
cats' recovery from anesthesia following the surgery. Unlike routine
recoveries, including recovery from neutering surgeries, which are fairly
peaceful, declawing surgery results in cats bouncing off the walls of the
recovery cage because of excruciating pain. Cats that are more stoic huddle
in the corner of the recovery cage, immobilized in a state of helplessness,
presumably by overwhelming pain. Declawing fits the dictionary definition of
mutilation to a tee. Words such as deform, disfigure, disjoint, and
dismember all apply to this surgery. Partial digital amputation is so
horrible that it has been employed for torture of prisoners of war, and in
veterinary medicine, the clinical procedure serves as model of severe pain
for testing the efficacy of analgesic drugs. Even though analgesic drugs can
be used postoperatively, they rarely are, and their effects are incomplete
and transient anyway, so sooner or later the pain will emerge."  (Excerpted
from The Cat Who Cried For Help, Dodman N, Bantam Books, New York).

http://maxshouse.com/facts_about_declawing.htm

"ceb2" <svendlho@aol.com> wrote in message being spayed at the same
time, it will be an

My cat Kim was a rescue, she was in  a bad way, very nervous and
defensive aggressive, she attacked me badly several times,  and is
still liable to be aggressive but is much better and very loveable. we
have all learnt how to handle her so she doesn't feel the need to be
aggressive and my pets, my dog and rabbit have learnt not to get to
close to her or invade her space.
Decalw is not an option in the Uk but even if it was, I wouldn't have
had it done to Kim ,(or any cat) she'd been through enough.
Alison

Oohh!  Those are big scary words!

There is NEVER  a situation that warrants animal cruelty.

I rescued my cats to from a bad situation.  But I didn't subject them to
mutilation to pay for me rescuing them.  I actually gave them respect and a
loving home.  Then I trimmed claws and trained them.  Gee, guess I must be a
genious, huh?

She won't be once she's mutilated.  

Listen you stupid twat, taking in cats gives you no right to mutilate and abuse
them.  You are a sick disgusting excuse for a human being.  I can't wait for
your karma to catch up with you.
________
See my cats:  http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecatjournal.com/articles/claws.htm

Ok, not that anyone in this NG will think they are valid, but here
goes.
We bought our first home last April. Nice house. But it was built in
1960 and not renovated since. We completely redid the entire interior.
Every room. Walls, floors cielings. Bought all new furniture. Got the
cats while we were doing this. They scratch everything. Rugs, drapes,
furniture, and in some cases, even the walls. They have 2 scratching
posts which they sometimes scratch but they prefer the furniture and
other stuff. I then built them an enclosure in the garage with a kitty
door so they can get there at their will. It has many levels and
shelves and cubbies and tunnels. Completely upholstered and carpeted.
Rope tightly wound around all the wood beams for their scratching
pleasure.(I'll post pics on my sight if anyone cares to see)They use
it but still prefer the rest of the house. This wasn't a problem until
recently. My wife is a teacher and went back to work in the fall, and
my girls ent back to school, and I returned to work after a lengthy
layoff. When we were around, it wasn't a problem, a spray bottle
worked wonders as a dterent. We also tried double backed tape, citrus
sprays and other things to no avail. Now they have the place to
themselves and we se evidence of serious scratching. And climbing.
After we made the appointment, I was lyng in bed the other night and
heard a soft cry. It was Grizabella, she had climed our upholstered
walls and was clinging at the ceiling.

I have been against this and on many levels and still am, but my wife
is adamant. Color me out of whack, but here are my priorities:

1. My wife and girls
2. My own well-bing
3. Our home
4. The cats
5. The dog

Like I said, I know none of these reasons will be good enough for some
or all of you. That would probably be true even if I did have a blood
condition, or any other disorder, or if we frequently had babies and
toddlers around (which we do) and I only have to justify this to me
and mine, not you lot.

So there it is.

Overall, I would like to thank you Steve, for an intelligent response
to my information.