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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / September 2004toilet training a super-stubborn cat
I have two cats. One is a 9 year old mix who is great and who I toilet trained at 6 months and has never had a problem since. My other cat, whose name is Stub due to her cute little stub tail, is as stubborn as they get. Let me tell you where I am right now. So, I started the toilet traning the same way I did with my other cat. I moved the litter box gradually to the bathroom and then raised it, so that Stub would be used to jumping to do her business. The next step was to put the litter box on top of the toilet and let her use that for a while. I know there is a book that says you are supposed to do this whole toilet training process in 21 days but it takes longer, at least for me. SO, my first step was to follow the toilet traning of this famous 21 day book and do the seran wrap with the litter on top of it. Stub never even considered using that idea. She just was confused as to where the litter went and pooped on the floor. So I moved the litter box back onto the seat and she used it fine. Now I am using an alternative method where I got a turkey baker pan and placed it in the litter box so that she uses the litter box "in" the toilet. What I am supposed to do is to cut a small hole in the turkey baker pan and make it larger but when I tried this for the first time it was the same situation as with the seran wrap. Stub saw a little of the water below and thought "hmmm. I dont think I should poop in here. I think it would be better if I just pooped in the floor". So, the question I am asking is... What on earth should my next step be. I know there are probably people here who may not be so keen on the whole toilet training thing, but please do not be too harsh with me. Also, it is noted that this cat is rather large (about 12 lbs or so). When she uses the toilet/litter combo now she does balance herself on the toilet seat as she would if she were just using the toilet alone but sometimes she messes up and kinda sits in the toilet/litter, which will obviously not work if I ever am able to remove the pan from the toilet. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated, Stevie Please don't force your cats to do this. Your cat is already telling you it does not want to do this and to continue with this plan is cruel. Toilet training a cat is wrong for many reasons: http://community.webtv.net/zuzu22/toilet Megan  Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray >From: zuzu22@webtv.net >http://community.webtv.net/zuzu22/toilet Megan, I got a "page cannot be found" for your webpage. ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecatjournal.com/articles/claws.htm Sorry, I forgot part of the url. Here is the correct url: http://community.webtv.net/zuzu22/toilettraining Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray >From: zuzu22@webtv.net >Sorry, I forgot part of the url. Here is the correct url: >http://community.webtv.net/zuzu22/toilettraining Yep, that one worked :) Good article! I'm going to pass along the link to someone who was asking me about "toilet" training cats. ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecatjournal.com/articles/claws.htm >From: stephen2718@yahoo.com (Stephen) > What on earth should my >next step be. I know there are probably people here who may not be so >keen on the whole toilet training thing, but please do not be too >harsh with me. I won't be harsh with you. However, you need to let your cats simply be cats. Give them a litterbox and let them be comfortable. What happens if your cats become ill later in life and have trouble getting up on the toilet? I don't know. The whole concept of having a cat use a human toilet seems so well, for lack of a better word, inappropriate. jmo Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecatjournal.com/articles/claws.htm > >From: stephen2718@yahoo.com (Stephen) > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > know. The whole concept of having a cat use a human toilet seems so well, for > lack of a better word, inappropriate. jmo Yep. I bit my tongue last night--but I do feel the same way. It's mean thing to do to a cat IMO. And oo ick, I don't WANT my cat using my toilet, anyway! Imagine being sleepy in the middle of the night, going in and sitting down in a puddle because he missed. > Yep. I bit my tongue last night--but I do feel the same way. It's mean thing > to do to a cat IMO. And oo ick, I don't WANT my cat using my toilet, > anyway! Imagine being sleepy in the middle of the night, going in and > sitting down in a puddle because he missed. I can think of one thing worse than a puddle... Signature-- ~kaeli~ Why do they sterilize the needles for lethal injections? http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace >From: "Mary" crazyaboutfelines@yahoo.com >> >From: stephen2718@yahoo.com (Stephen) >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >anyway! Imagine being sleepy in the middle of the night, going in and >sitting down in a puddle because he missed. Yeah it's bad enough when hubby does that, lol Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecatjournal.com/articles/claws.htm > >Yep. I bit my tongue last night--but I do feel the same way. It's mean thing > >to do to a cat IMO. And oo ick, I don't WANT my cat using my toilet, > >anyway! Imagine being sleepy in the middle of the night, going in and > >sitting down in a puddle because he missed. > > Yeah it's bad enough when hubby does that, lol Heh heh. I have two words for you: Separate bathrooms! ;) >From: "Mary" crazyaboutfelines@yahoo.com >> >Yep. I bit my tongue last night--but I do feel the same way. It's mean >thing [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Heh heh. I have two words for you: Separate bathrooms! ;) LOL, really! Actually I was just kidding, he's not that bad. Of course he didn't come like that, I had to train him :) Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecatjournal.com/articles/claws.htm > Also, it is noted that this cat is rather large (about 12 lbs or so). > When she uses the toilet/litter combo now she does balance herself on [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Any thoughts are greatly appreciated,\ Toilets are for people. Dirt, grass, and litter are for pets. Signature-- ~kaeli~ If a book about failures doesn't sell, is it a success? http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace > I have two cats. One is a 9 year old mix who is great and who I > toilet trained at 6 months and has never had a problem since. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > keen on the whole toilet training thing, but please do not be too > harsh with me. You abuse your cats and don't want people to be too harsh with you? Okey dokey. > Also, it is noted that this cat is rather large (about 12 lbs or so). > When she uses the toilet/litter combo now she does balance herself on [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Any thoughts are greatly appreciated, Well, Stevie, since you've asked for my thoughts, I'll give them to you, but first I want you to explain a few things I don't understand, ok? First, why are you depriving your cats of their natural instincts? Did you know that causes stress? or are you normally not that perceptive? Would you like to be forced to sh.t in the dirt and then clean your a.s with your tongue? Second, Do you think its "cute" to see cats use a human toilet? or are you just too lazy to clean the litter box? Third, How do monitor your cats' waste for medical problems? such as polyuria which is a sign of diabetes and chronic renal failure; or worse, oliguria? or anuria? - which is even worse and life-threatening. That wasn't too harsh, now was it? > You abuse your cats and don't want people to be too harsh with you? Okey > dokey. Whoa, I think we need to calm down a little here. We may have some disagreements here about whether toilet training the cat is in its best interests, but to say that it is being "abused" is a little out there. It's not "natural" for cats to live indoors and never go outside, or to refrain from jumping up on the table when you're eating, or to be spayed and neutered either. But this doesn't necessarily equal abuse. I agree that at a certain point, if the toilet training isn't working out, its time to give up and give the cat back its box. Maybe it is just not capable of learning to use the toilet, or maybe it genuinely has problems balancing or has an insurrmountable fear. There's a point where it becomes clear that the cat can't or won't use the toilet, and at that point, it's mean to draw it out further. Certainly, if a cat is old and can't get up on the toilet, it should have a litter box. > Third, How do monitor your cats' waste for medical problems? such as > polyuria which is a sign of diabetes and chronic renal failure; or worse, > oliguria? or anuria? - which is even worse and life-threatening. Take the cat for regular vet checkups. That'll tell you a lot more than monitoring its crap. > > You abuse your cats and don't want people to be too harsh with you? Okey > > dokey. > > > Whoa, I think we need to calm down a little here. Ok. So calm down. We may have some > disagreements here about whether toilet training the cat is in its > best interests, but to say that it is being "abused" is a little out > there. You think so, huh? I think forcing a cat to use a human toilet and depriving her of natural instincts is *way* out there. > It's not "natural" for cats to live indoors and never go outside, or > to refrain from jumping up on the table when you're eating, or to be > spayed and neutered either. But this doesn't necessarily equal abuse. Neutering benefits the cat both physically and psychologically; keeping a cat indoors benefits the cat; teaching a cat to stay off the table benefits the cat (sharp eating utensils, foods toxic to cats). Your analogies do not apply. > I agree that at a certain point, if the toilet training isn't working > out, its time to give up and give the cat back its box. Maybe it is [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Certainly, if a cat is old and can't get up on the toilet, it should > have a litter box. How thoughtful. > > Third, How do monitor your cats' waste for medical problems? such as > > polyuria which is a sign of diabetes and chronic renal failure; or worse, > > oliguria? or anuria? - which is even worse and life-threatening. > Take the cat for regular vet checkups. That'll tell you a lot more > than monitoring its crap. Abnormal waste products and production are often early warning signs of illness. Do you think an oliguric or an anuric cat will survive until the next scheduled exam? Did you know that a urinary tract obstruction produces a pathophysiologic state equivalent to oliguric acute renal failure? Don't know much about cats, do you? No, I guess I don't know as much as you, but then again, I'm not so offensive that most normal humans would avoid me. I guess your cat has no choice but to tolerate you, but luckily, I'm not in that situation. Being around you would consititute abuse far more than any toilet training. Toodles. > > > You abuse your cats and don't want people to be too harsh with you? > Okey [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > a pathophysiologic state equivalent to oliguric acute renal failure? Don't > know much about cats, do you? > No, I guess I don't know as much as you, It was a rhetorical question. but then again, I'm not so > offensive that most normal humans would avoid me. IOW, you're offensive enough that many normal humans avoid you. Did it occur to you that maybe I'm offensive to the people who I want to avoid me? That's another rhetorical question. Lets see if it works on you... I guess your cat > has no choice but to tolerate you, I'd be willing to bet my cats live better than you. Wanna take that bet? but luckily, I'm not in that > situation. Sounds like you're in a far worse situation. > Being around you would consititute abuse far more than any toilet > training. > Toodles. Tsk, tsk Toodles. Don't be such a sore loser. You should expect responses like mine when you make silly statements and utterly stupid and asinine analogies. What's next? teaching your cat to use a fork and spoon! Thankfully, this wasn't a complete waste of my time; at least you learnt something about cats that you didn't know before. . > > > > You abuse your cats and don't want people to be too harsh with you? > > Okey [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > a pathophysiologic state equivalent to oliguric acute renal failure? Don't > > know much about cats, do you? A FEW CORRECTIONS FOR YOU "DOCTOR" PHIL... > > No, I guess I don't know as much as you, > > It was a rhetorical question. > > but then again, I'm not so > > offensive that most normal humans would avoid me. I DONT FIND ANASTATIA OFFENSIVE.. YOU ON THE OTHER HAND : ) > IOW, you're offensive enough that many normal humans avoid you. IOW IS NOT A WORD IN THE DICTIONARY.. SPEAK ENGLISH motherf..ker > Did it occur to you that maybe I'm offensive to the people who I want to > avoid me? That's another rhetorical question. Lets see if it works on > you... YES COZ U ARE A FUCKHEAD w.nker > I guess your cat > > has no choice but to tolerate you, NICE COMEBACK.. THE OLD SWITCHEROONIE... HOW LAME ARE YOU.. REALLY?? PLEASE>> THIS IS A QUESTION I WOULD LIKE ANSWERED! > I'd be willing to bet my cats live better than you. Wanna take that bet? > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > like mine when you make silly statements and utterly stupid and asinine > analogies. What's next? teaching your cat to use a fork and spoon! HAHAHA THIS CRACKED ME.... TOODLES.. IS CIAO, ADIOS, GOODBYE > Thankfully, this wasn't a complete waste of my time; at least you learnt > something about cats that you didn't know before. YES AND NOW YOU NEED TO LEARN TO WAKE UP AND SNIFF MY BUMCRACK > . > [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > Don't > > > know much about cats, do you? > A FEW CORRECTIONS FOR YOU "DOCTOR" PHIL... Pssst ... lose the caps lock key. Makes you look like a moron. Of course you may be a moron, but I did not read enough of your post to find out. I loved the line where he told him that IOW wasn't a word and that he should start using English, his *very next* line was "yes coz u are..." talk about being stupid, this 'shakra' sure fits the bill, doesn't he/she? SignatureThe ONE and ONLY lefthanded-pathetic-paranoid-psychotic-sarcastic-wiseass-ditzy former-blonde in Bloomington! (And proud of it, too)? email me at nalee1964 (at) insightbb (dot) com http://community.webshots.com/user/mgcmdjeep >> A FEW CORRECTIONS FOR YOU "DOCTOR" PHIL... > > Pssst ... lose the caps lock key. Makes you look like a moron. Of course > you > may be a moron, but I did not read enough of your post to find out. > I loved the line where he told him that IOW wasn't a word and that he should > start using English, his *very next* line was "yes coz u are..." talk about > being stupid, this 'shakra' sure fits the bill, doesn't he/she? Beyond stupid. I really laughed at the part about "toodles". When shakra was a baby, I think he/she slept in a high crib in a room with hardwood floors -- so his/her parents could hear when he fell. > >> A FEW CORRECTIONS FOR YOU "DOCTOR" PHIL... > > > > Pssst ... lose the caps lock key. Makes you look like a moron. Of course > > you > > may be a moron, but I did not read enough of your post to find out. > > A FEW CORRECTIONS FOR YOU "DOCTOR" PHIL... > > Pssst ... lose the caps lock key. Makes you look like a moron. Of course you > may be a moron, but I did not read enough of your post to find out. This one is past moron - somewhere between imbecile and idiot. > A FEW CORRECTIONS FOR YOU "DOCTOR" PHIL... You seem to be lacking a shift key on your keyboard. Or a few IQ points. Something, anyway. > > IOW, you're offensive enough that many normal humans avoid you. > IOW IS NOT A WORD IN THE DICTIONARY.. SPEAK ENGLISH motherf..ker [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > > YES COZ U ARE A FUCKHEAD w.nker 'COZ' and 'U' are not words, w.nker. Speak English, moron. You also seem to have completely forgotten that commas exist. IOW is an acronym. It means "In Other Words". If you don't know what the word acronym means, you may need to go look it up. > > I guess your cat > > > has no choice but to tolerate you, > NICE COMEBACK.. THE OLD SWITCHEROONIE... HOW LAME ARE YOU.. REALLY?? Not as lame as someone who needs to be a grammar nazi, yet still cannot locate the shift key on their keyboard. Want to be a grammar nazi? Learn proper grammar first. Grow up, moron. Signature-- ~kaeli~ I love God. It's His fanclub that I can't stand. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace > > A FEW CORRECTIONS FOR YOU "DOCTOR" PHIL... > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Grow up, moron. Now didn't that feel good? ;) Love this sig--and the one on your last post too. > A FEW CORRECTIONS FOR YOU "DOCTOR" PHIL... > [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > > YES AND NOW YOU NEED TO LEARN TO WAKE UP AND SNIFF MY BUMCRACK This is what happens when a woman takes drugs while pregnant. > > > "Phil P." <phil@maxshouse.com> wrote in message > > news:<cY2dndjQ89A5CMTcRVn-tg@giganews.com>... [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.769 / Virus Database: 516 - Release Date: 24/09/04 > > You abuse your cats and don't want people to be too harsh with you? Okey > > dokey. > > > Whoa, I think we need to calm down a little here. We may have some isagreements here about whether toilet training the cat is in its best interests, but to say that it is being "abused" is a little out there. > It's not "natural" for cats to live indoors and never go outside, or to refrain from jumping up on the table when you're eating, or to be spayed and neutered either. But this doesn't necessarily equal abuse. Oh, come on. Not the same thing at all. Tell me this: if you, just because you could, required your child to juggle and whistle while peeing if he wanted to pee at all would that be cruel? > I have two cats. One is a 9 year old mix who is great and who I > toilet trained at 6 months and has never had a problem since. > > My other cat, whose name is Stub due to her cute little stub tail, is > as stubborn as they get. Let me tell you where I am right now. Some cats might take to toilet training when they're young, but when they get old or injured, and have trouble jumping that high, especially to a slippery surface they can't get claws in, they're going to go somewhere else. And if the cat slips and falls in the toilet, he'll probably never use it again. You also can't monitor their output in a toilet, and could miss developing medical problems that would be a lot more obvious in a litterbox, like excessive or too little or overly concentrated urine, or constipated stools, or mucous on feces. Let them use a litterbox. You and the cats will be happier in the long run. A good clumping litter isn't smelly when you scoop it out at least once a day. Preferably, offer them two litterboxes if you have the room, because some cats don't like to share a box. I don't have room for a second box, but fortunately my two large cats don't mind sharing. I use a large mortar-mixing tray from Home Depot for a litter box. It's about 20" x 27", and they go in opposite ends of it. Since it's in the bathroom, I find Arm & Hammer flushable litter very convenient -- although it took me a few days to figure out how much clump would easily flush, which is about half-filling the standing water in the toilet. Signaturejamie (jamiemck@newsguy.com) "There's a seeker born every minute." > I have two cats. One is a 9 year old mix who is great and who I > toilet trained at 6 months and has never had a problem since. [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > Any thoughts are greatly appreciated, > Stevie Sounds like an awful lot of work for the kitty just to go to the bathroom. Just let the poor cat use the box on the floor where it belongs before you have a cat that refuses to use it at all and starts in on your rugs. As others have already said what would happen when the cat gets older and isn't able to jump up that high. I have a 17 yr. old who is lucky to get up on the couch and can't make it as high as the bed any longer. I can't picture her trying to land on a slippery toilet seat. I have also had to rescue more than one cat from the toilet when they slipped in trying to get a drink (I keep the lid down all the time now). I would imagine it would only take one swim in the toilet to foil all your "training" W Sounds like a good idea. Your cats use the toilet and you use the litter box. If I saw my cat(s) doing this naturally I'd think ' ... wow ... erm ... clever cat ' then go and get the camera and post the pics in alt.binaries.pictures.animals under the heading ' Clever Toilet Cat! ' However, I'd be annoyed if they didn't pull the plug or wet the seat - your cats are not male so I suppose that will not be a problem ;-) I don't think I'd want to train them to do it on the other hand. Mind you, you should never underestimate the intelligence of cats and if you can train a cat to do this and the cat is happy with it ... well, carry on. Behavioral approaches work really well in cats - those emphasising the 'desired behaviour gets a reward' side of it in this case. I have my cat MAGI actually looking forward to and sitting in anticipation of medicine and even taking eye cream 'cos there is a meaty treat before, during and after it. So every time she does it right or closely right give a reward of some kind and this may help the process. Actually, I have never heard of this book but I really would like to see a photo of your cat successfully doing this. There was a cat that did this in a recent American comedy film (I forget the name) and I thought that was funny yet clever at the same time. In the film the cat even pulled the plug!!! Iain >I have two cats. One is a 9 year old mix who is great and who I >toilet trained at 6 months and has never had a problem since. [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >Any thoughts are greatly appreciated, >Stevie ... >'o'< Rescued Cats & Kittens Needing Homes >'o'< www.celiahammond.org >'o'<
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