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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / September 2004

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Persistent infection

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Michael Stares - 23 Sep 2004 11:08 GMT
Hi, my male long haired cat has an infection of his paw and also a patch on
his side.  His paw is swollen, raw looking and bleeds slightly.  This has
persisted despite anti-biotics, cream and bathing in salt water.  It may be
he is not getting full doses of the pills as he resists taking by mouth and
we have to crush them into his feed (which he seldom fully eats).

I have low confidence in the vet for this condition as there has been no
success from his remedies.

Does anyone have experience of this condition, expecially success (by
whatever means) of getting it cleared up?
Wendy - 23 Sep 2004 13:05 GMT
> Hi, my male long haired cat has an infection of his paw and also a patch on
> his side.  His paw is swollen, raw looking and bleeds slightly.  This has
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Does anyone have experience of this condition, expecially success (by
> whatever means) of getting it cleared up?

Is he de-clawed?

W
Michael Stares - 23 Sep 2004 13:15 GMT
No he is not declawed.

> > Hi, my male long haired cat has an infection of his paw and also a patch
> on
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> W
Mary - 23 Sep 2004 17:14 GMT
> No he is not declawed.

Have you thought about trying a new vet? I think that's what I would do.
Karen - 23 Sep 2004 14:23 GMT
If one type of antibiotic isn't working, I'd sure want to try another. Is
there another vet you can go to?
> Hi, my male long haired cat has an infection of his paw and also a patch on
> his side.  His paw is swollen, raw looking and bleeds slightly.  This has
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Does anyone have experience of this condition, expecially success (by
> whatever means) of getting it cleared up?
Michael Stares - 23 Sep 2004 15:57 GMT
I didn't know there are different antibiotics so I could ask the vet to try
another.  On my latest visit today I met the junior partner who is the vet's
daughter, at least she was able to communicate with me much better.  We.re
trying the same antibiotic first but I can ask for another one later (thank
you for pointing out this option).  If necessary I can go to another vet.  I
did wonder if anyone had tried alternative therapies and did they work?

> If one type of antibiotic isn't working, I'd sure want to try another. Is
> there another vet you can go to?
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> > Does anyone have experience of this condition, expecially success (by
> > whatever means) of getting it cleared up?
Karen - 23 Sep 2004 16:22 GMT
No medic here, but I do know that different antibiotics are more effective
than others. For an infection that won't clear up, you might even get it
analyzed to find out what KIND of infection it is and target it with an
appropriate antibiotic.

Usually, they throw amoxicyllan at whatever first, but in my experience, it
sure doesn't help to many ills. Hopefully, one of the more knowledgable of
the group will help me out here.

How long has he been on the current antibiotic and what is it?

> I didn't know there are different antibiotics so I could ask the vet to try
> another.  On my latest visit today I met the junior partner who is the vet's
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> > > Does anyone have experience of this condition, expecially success (by
> > > whatever means) of getting it cleared up?
dgk - 23 Sep 2004 17:48 GMT
>No medic here, but I do know that different antibiotics are more effective
>than others. For an infection that won't clear up, you might even get it
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>How long has he been on the current antibiotic and what is it?

Just for the record, there are two main types of bacteria, gram
positive and gram negative, so called because of how they stain using
certain dyes. Gram positive include staph and strep while gram
negative include e.coli, salmonella, and klebsiella. In addition, some
of each kind are little round beasties, called cocci, while others are
rod shaped, called, well, rods. Both staph and strep are cocci and the
e.coli, salmonella, and klebsiella are rods. But you can have gram
positive rods as well as gram negative cocci. I think gonorrhea is a
gram negative cocci, while bacillus is a gram positive rod.

Anyway, the cell wall differences that have them stain differently
also allows certain antibiotics to work on some and not others. Plus,
some strains gain resistance to specific antibiotics. Or, more
exactly, mutants that have resistance aren't killed as easily and so
become the dominant type of a strain.

Amoxicillin is useful against both g- and g+ and is often used by the
vets rather than ordering an culture and sensitivity. A C&S involves
isolating the offending bacteria and testing it against a group of
antibiotics known to be effective against that type of bacteria. It
would easily cost $80 or more to do the testing, so you can see the
economic incentive to just try a general broad-spectrum antibiotic and
figure that it should work.

But, it might hit the bacteria that will not be affected, and thus
another should be tried if no good results are achieved.

Dave, one upon a time a microbiology tech.
Michael Stares - 23 Sep 2004 18:42 GMT
I'm really grateful for this detailed advice from all of you.  The current
medication just says "Antirobe 25g" and this may be specific to the UK.
Advice you have given me so far is:
1) Try another antibiotic
2) Get the infection tested to find out what specific bacterium to target
3) Change the vet
Advice on litter tray gratefully received but not relevant as the cat has
multiple problems including urinating out of his trays.  We've had to change
the flooring from carpet to laminate or wood flooring throughout the house
because of the ensuing hygiene problem.  Luckily in this country this type
of flooring is in fashion anyway!

My emerging plan is to exhaust the current antibiotic, then if necessary
proceed with the above suggestions in the order displayed.

The vet also suggested a collar to stop the cat licking the infected area.
I'm not sure.  It is possible that the area is itchy in which case
preventing the cat obtaining relief from the itching would be cruel.

Thanks for the advice offered so far.

> >No medic here, but I do know that different antibiotics are more effective
> >than others. For an infection that won't clear up, you might even get it
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> Dave, one upon a time a microbiology tech.
Steve Crane - 24 Sep 2004 14:22 GMT
> I'm really grateful for this detailed advice from all of you.  The current
> medication just says "Antirobe 25g" and this may be specific to the UK.
> Advice you have given me so far is:

Antirobe is clindamycin hcl, an excellent antibiotic with wide
spectrum activity. Actually I'm a bit surprised the vet is using such
a "big gun" this early in the game. Antirobe has the unique ability to
be effective against both aerobic (oxygen access) and anaerobic (no
oxygen access) bacteria. The number of bacteria that are not
susceptible are quite rare. The drug also has the unique ability to
produce effective blood levels in 20 minutes after oral ingestion. I
would suspect that either the cat is not getting a full dose, or the
problem is not a bacteria. Perhaps a fungal infection instead?
Cheryl - 23 Sep 2004 22:58 GMT
In the fine newsgroup "rec.pets.cats.health+behav", dgk <sonicechoes-
spamless@hot-nospamp-mail.com> artfully composed this message within
<news:3su5l0pdomq2b72q11bq8k5svt411ial6m@4ax.com> on 23 Sep 2004:

> Dave, one upon a time a microbiology tech.

Thanks for the explanation Dave! That was fascinating, and I
appreciate that you took the time to post all that for us non-
microbiology techs.  :)  On another note, I hope Nipsy is feeling
better soon (re: your other post about him)

Signature

Cheryl

Melanie's  Phony Email Address for NGs - 23 Sep 2004 18:06 GMT
> Does anyone have experience of this condition, expecially success (by
> whatever means) of getting it cleared up?

My kitty had a paw pad infection. She responded well from the
antibiotics. I did throw out all the clumping cat litter and bought
her the round gel pearls type of litter. She really likes to get into
her box and dig! And throw litter everywhere. Now I have tiny round
"beads" all over the floor that I must sweep up everyday. But at least
I'm not stepping on that rough litter too.

Anyway, the vet seemed to think it was the rough litter and the gel
pearls were the only thing I could find that did not get dusty or
gravelly.

~Melanie
Ashley - 23 Sep 2004 20:28 GMT
> Hi, my male long haired cat has an infection of his paw and also a patch
> on
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Does anyone have experience of this condition, expecially success (by
> whatever means) of getting it cleared up?

Both of my cats have, at various times of their lives, had antibiotic
resistant infections that required about three visits to the vet each, with
a change of antibiotics every time, to clear them up. If your cat isn't
getting the full dose of his antibiotic, the infection WON'T go away, and
all you will do is increase the antibiotic resistance out there. You really
MUST ensure he gets the full dose, not matter how hard that is. One of my
cats is a fighter when it comes to medicine, and I have simply learned to be
smarter, quicker and tougher than him to ensure any necessary pills go down.

So what I would do is
1. Get your antibiotic dosing method right and ensure he swallows all his
medicine. This may mean wrapping him in towels and forcing it down, it may
mean you get scratched a bit, but it is vital.
2. If after having a full course of his full dose of antibiotics there is no
improvement, you need to go back to the vet, say "that one didn't work, can
we try another one please". And then go through the whole procedure for 5 or
7 days (however long the course is) all over again.
3. Repeat this until you find an antibiotic that works, and persist until
the end of the dose. Whatever you do, don't, halfway through a course, think
"He's getting better now and this is so much trouble I think we can stop".
Halfway through the course, even if he's improving, not all the bacteria
will have died and those that have survived will have begun developing
resistance, so it will be even harder to kill them off when they take over
again.
4. Change vets if you're unhappy with your current one.

Good luck.
jamie - 23 Sep 2004 23:40 GMT
> Hi, my male long haired cat has an infection of his paw and also a patch on
> his side.  His paw is swollen, raw looking and bleeds slightly.  This has
> persisted despite anti-biotics, cream and bathing in salt water.  It may be
> he is not getting full doses of the pills as he resists taking by mouth and
> we have to crush them into his feed (which he seldom fully eats).

If he's not getting full doses of the pills, what you may be doing
is only killing off the weaker bacteria, while breeding antibiotic-
resistant bacteria in the ones that survive.  If that's the case,
you will have to get him on a different antibiotic.

I suggest you bring him back for a change of medication, and look into
either a Pill-Popper device, Pill Pocket treats (worked well on my
cat for nasty-tasting Tapazole), or having the antibiotic compounded
into a solution that you can squirt into his mouth with an eyedropper
or syringe, depending on the size of your cat.

Gideon was on Clindamycin before his surgery, which came as a clear
liquid with a measured dropper, and at 10.5 pounds, he needed a full
dropper.  If LeMieux had needed an antibiotic for his teeth, he
would have been given pills, because he's 17 pounds, and it's
difficult to give a second dropper of a bitter medicine.

If a crushed pill doesn't taste too awful to him, you could try mixing
it with a heaping tablespoon of his food, or with some strained chicken
babyfood, before you feed him the rest of his food, although if it
does taste bad, you might waste a pill trying it if he won't eat it.

Signature

 jamie  (jamiemck@newsguy.com)

         "There's a seeker born every minute."

Michael Stares - 26 Sep 2004 01:55 GMT
So much good information!  I don't believe Truffy is getting his full dose
because he fiercely resists popping pills by mouth and so my other half
tries to give it in his food, probably decimating the dosage.  The cats
actually belong to Marilyn and usually _I_  remain "aloof" from the cats but
I  got involved because Truffy's infection was going on too long and pitiful
to see.  I now realise I'm going to have to be stronger/smarter than said
creature (the cat I mean not Marilyn) in order to get a result.  The info
you have given me provides options for dealing not only with Truffy but also
the vet.

Not an ideal situation but I'm willing to learn from you guys.

> > Hi, my male long haired cat has an infection of his paw and also a patch on
> > his side.  His paw is swollen, raw looking and bleeds slightly.  This has
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> babyfood, before you feed him the rest of his food, although if it
> does taste bad, you might waste a pill trying it if he won't eat it.
 
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