Need low-protein cat food recommendations

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dtanyol - 17 Sep 2004 01:53 GMT

Hi cat people,

I have a 14-year-old male cat who was recently diagnosed as having
early-stage kidney disease. The vet's recommendation was to feed him
low-protein cat food, and she sold me a few cans of g/d (which, I
believe, is made by Hill's). This food has a protein percentage of
7.5%, which is only slightly below what the cat was already eating
(9-Lives beef cat food, whose protein content is 8.0%).

Here's the problem: since he was a kitten, my cat has only been able
to eat beef-flavored cat food without getting diarrhea. He likes the
taste of many flavors, but all of them (except beef) give him
diarrhea. He'll normally eat any brand of chunky/carved beef, but
usually eats 9-Lives (8% protein) or Friskies Prime Filets (12%).
Right now he's on something of a hunger strike and is only eating the
Prime Filets, but I am trying to get him at least onto the
lower-protein 9-Lives. When I started (very gradually) switching him
to the prescribed g/d, he immediately developed diarrhea, probably
because it has a non-beef base.

SO: Can anyone recommend a low-protein beef-flavored wet food? I need
to get below 8% protein, because even after years of eating 8% protein
food (which is much lower than most commercial brands), he has still
developed kidney insufficiency. Any recommendations would be
wonderful!

Thanks.
-D

(remove NOSPAM from email address to respond)

P.S. I've found a relatively low protein dry food (Alpo, at 26%, which
is lower than most dry foods), but I don't know how dry and wet food
stack up, or if the proteins are equivalent. Also, lots of dry food
gives him, you know, the runs.

Reply to this Message

Phil P. - 18 Sep 2004 02:18 GMT

> Hi cat people,
>
> I have a 14-year-old male cat who was recently diagnosed as having
> early-stage kidney disease. The vet's recommendation was to feed him
> low-protein cat food,

Actually, your cat should be fed as much high-quality protein as possible
while keeping his BUN at 60 mg/dl or less. Excessive (and premature)
protein restriction can have deleterious effects. k/d is better for cats in
mid-to late-stage CRF.

and she sold me a few cans of g/d (which, I

> believe, is made by Hill's). This food has a protein percentage of
> 7.5%, which is only slightly below what the cat was already eating
> (9-Lives beef cat food, whose protein content is 8.0%).

Actually, k/d contains 29% protein on a dry matter basis - about 6.5 grams
of protein/100 kcal - or about 12 grams/can. I think that's too low for a
cat in early stage CRF. I've been feeding our CRF cats x/d with great
results.

> Here's the problem: since he was a kitten, my cat has only been able
> to eat beef-flavored cat food without getting diarrhea.

You probably made the transition to abrupt. Try mixing a 1/2 tsp of the new
food in the old food and gradually increasing the new food by 1/2 tsp every
few days and decrease the old food by the same amount.

You might make the transition easier by putting a dab of the new food on
your cat's nose (not near his nostrils) to satiate his olfactory system.
When he licks it off he'll also satiate his gustatory system so that the new
food will seem familiar and won't be detected in the mix.

You can also try mixing in a little beef fat -its non-protein calories.
Just don't use too much or you'll throw off the nutrient balance of the
diet.

Good luck.

Phil

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dtanyol - 18 Sep 2004 19:41 GMT

Hi Phil,

Thanks very much for your advice. I actually don't quite know what
stage of renal failure my cat is in, whether it's early- and
mid-range. At this point, he's just drinking and urinating a lot; the
specific gravity of his urine has ranged from 1.023 to 1.032
(apparently 1.040 and above is a healthy level of urine concentration,
and 1.00 is the concentration of plain water, not good). I do not know
the specific BUN, but I know that it was only slightly off-target,
leading the doctor to do the specific gravity test.

So: I guess I will have to ask the vet why she's recommending low
protein rather than "as much high-quality protein as possible." I've
also gotten a recommendation from another newsgroup member to keep
both protein and phosphorus as LOW as possible. Since I'm getting
conflicting responses on whether to give "as little protein and
phosphorus as possible" and "as much high-quality protein as
possible," would be you be able to help me split hairs a little? I'm
not very knowledgeable about kidney disease, and it sounds as if I'm
about to embark on a long, messy road with it, and I'd like to keep my
cat healthy as long as possible. (Thanks so much for your help. Any
additional clarification would be great, so that when I call to
question the doctor, I have some reasonable ammunition to use.)

-Denise

> > Hi cat people,
> >
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>
> Phil

Reply to this Message

DG511 - 18 Sep 2004 20:38 GMT

> dtanyol@aol.com (dtanyol)

writes:

>I actually don't quite know what
>stage of renal failure my cat is in, whether it's early- and
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>the specific BUN, but I know that it was only slightly off-target,
>leading the doctor to do the specific gravity test.

I'm guessing that it's low, but you need to confirm that with your vet. You
also need to find out what the creatine number is.

>So: I guess I will have to ask the vet why she's recommending low
>protein rather than "as much high-quality protein as possible." I've
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>phosphorus as possible" and "as much high-quality protein as
>possible," would be you be able to help me split hairs a little?

I don't have the medical knowledge some of the other posters have, but I do
have experience. I have a cat, Priss, who was diagnosed with CRF 2 1/2 years
ago, with a BUN and creatine just barely out of the normal range. My vet
explained that traditionally, CRF cats had been put on low-protein diets but
that notion had been challenged recently. In her opinion, the jury was still
out. I asked her what she recommended, and she said "low phosphorus, first and
foremost." She also emphasized that the cat must eat. I went to
http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm and
http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/dryfood.htm and looked at the foods, which
are ranked by phosphorus content. We ended up putting Priss on Royal Canin dry
and Wellness canned (which is medium-high protein and human-grade ingredients).
Three months later, her numbers were solidly in the normal range, where they
remain. My vet said she'd never had a cat go back into normal, and I am NOT
suggesting the same would happen with you. But I do endorse going to the
KatKarma pages and finding low phosphorus foods that your kitty will eat. It
was certainly the best thing I ever did for my cat.

I'm

>not very knowledgeable about kidney disease, and it sounds as if I'm
>about to embark on a long, messy road with it, and I'd like to keep my
>cat healthy as long as possible.

It might not be that messy. If your cat is in the early stages, he won't need
fluids for a while, maybe not for years, and you can "treat" with superior
nutrition. If he ever does need fluids, there are web sites that discuss how
to manage that, and after your vet shows you how to administer them, you might
check around your area to find an experienced owner, vet tech, or pet sitter
who can come by your home a few times to help you with the fluids to start out.

I do think Phil makes a compelling case for high-quality protein at the
beginning. You say your cat favors beef, and there are lots of beef cat foods
analyzed on the KatKarma site, though I also think Phil has some good pointers
for getting your cat to eat other foods.

Good luck!

Daria
Timing is everything.

Reply to this Message

Phil P. - 18 Sep 2004 22:14 GMT

> Hi Phil,
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> additional clarification would be great, so that when I call to
> question the doctor, I have some reasonable ammunition to use.)

Hi Denise,

The ritual of feeding low-protein diets to cats in CRF originated from old
studies in lab rats. Its now known that mechanisms that can affect the
progression of CRF in the rat do not have the same effect in the cat.

Cats have a high protein requirement and can't readily adapt to a
low-protein diet, thus, protein restriction can have detrimental effects in
cats (e.g., , reduced hemoglobin production and anemia, impaired immune
response and resistance to infection, muscle wasting). Most cats are still
comfortable with a BUN of 60-80 mg/dl. Therefore, protein should be
restricted *only* to control azotemia.

Also, scheduled meal-feeding as opposed to free feeding (ad libitum), may be
easier on the kidneys. The
hyperfiltration that occurs after a meal only lasts for a little while, as
opposed to continuously as with nibbling throughout the day.

Another important factor is the acidity of the diet. In fact acidified
diets may contribute to, if not actually cause renal disease. k/d, g/d and
x/d are alkaline diets.

HTH,

Phil

> > > Hi cat people,
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> >
> > Phil

Reply to this Message

Tom S - 18 Sep 2004 23:20 GMT

<snip>

>So: I guess I will have to ask the vet why she's recommending low
>protein rather than "as much high-quality protein as possible." I've
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>-Denise

Furface was diagnosed with early stage CRF a little over a year ago.
My vet put him on g/d dry food and started him on fluids right away.
I still give him Friskies canned food, or Alpo when I can find it.
Anything but beef. He won't touch beef unless I fix a steak for
myself. Then, he uses my leg as a scratching post until I share with
him.

I have been giving him 100ml of fluid subcutaneous every other night
for the past year. He doesn't like it, but that is primarily because
he doesn't like to be touched or held unless he initiates the
contact.Other than a "flinch" when I put the needle in, he usually
doesn't show any pain or discomfort. The few times that he has
complained, I have moved the needle a little (without removing it) and
that seems to solve the problem.

After his last checkup in August, the vets said his blood couts were
worse, but I should keep doing what I am doing now. They saw not
reason to increase his fluids. They did suggest giving his 1/4 of a
PepcidAC a day if his appetite drops off or if I see any signs of
ulcers in his mouth.

Actually this whole affair is harder for me than it is for him, I
think. I rescued him (much against his will) from the streets when he
was about 6 months old and he has been my companion for 14 years now.
He has not shown any behavioral changes or anything to show he is
sick, except a little loss in weight. I t is just hard to look at him
and know he is not going to be with me for too much longer.

Tom

Reply to this Message

zuzu22@webtv.net - 19 Sep 2004 01:16 GMT

> Furface was diagnosed with early stage
> CRF a little over a year ago. My vet put
> him on g/d dry food and started him on
> fluids right away.

Starting your cats on fluids right away may have been a good idea, but
putting him on a *dry* food was wrong. Water intake is important for all
cats, but especially for cats with CRF and feeding a diet that forces a
cat to drink water to make up for what they should be getting in their
food is wrong.

>I still give him
> Friskies canned food, or Alpo when I can
> find it.

Please don't do this. Most of these grocery store type foods are *very*
high in phosphorus, which, while not a problem for healthy cats, is
detrimental to cats with CRF. There are low phosphorus canned foods you
can give that are much easier on the kidneys. Innova light is very low
in phosphorus, and feeding the canned version of the prescription food
would be much better for your cat. You can take a look at this chart to
find foods with phosphorus levels that are on the lower end of the
spectrum:
http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/jmpeerson/canfood.html

<snip>

> After his last checkup in August, the
> vets said his blood couts were worse,
> but I should keep doing what I am doing
> now. They saw no reason to increase his
> fluids.

Why???? The whole point of giving fluids is to keep toxins the kidneys
are having trouble filtering from building up in the bloodstream and
results in the numbers getting worse. If your cats numbers are worse,
increasing fluids, especially when you're only on an every other day
regimen, would be a normal course of action.

>They did suggest giving his 1/4
> of a PepcidAC a day if his appetite
> drops off or if I see any signs of
> ulcers in his mouth.

This happens as a result of toxins building up in the bloodstream, and,
again, increasing fluids will likely keep this from happening at this
point. I'm sorry, but your vet is not doing your cat any favors. If you
get him on canned food, watch the phosphorus content in treat foods you
give him and increase his fluid intake you may very well see his numbers
get better, or at least stabilize. Your vet is wrong on this one.

Megan

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Tom S - 19 Sep 2004 14:08 GMT

>> Furface was diagnosed with early stage
>> CRF a little over a year ago. My vet put
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>cat to drink water to make up for what they should be getting in their
>food is wrong.

I should have been clearer here. I have always fed him dry and canned
food. And he still gets dry and canned. He has both available to him
all the time as well as plenty of water.

>>I still give him
>> Friskies canned food, or Alpo when I can
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>detrimental to cats with CRF. There are low phosphorus canned foods you
>can give that are much easier on the kidneys.

They do have the canned g/d at the vets. I am boarding him there next
week while I am out of town, so I'll buy some when I pick him up and
see if he will eat it. He is somewhat picky about his food, so I
don't want to start giving him something he won't eat. I have seen
him practically inhale a can of food, then let the same flavor in
another brand fossilize in his bowl.

><snip>
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>increasing fluids, especially when you're only on an every other day
>regimen, would be a normal course of action.

Apparently, they were not bad enough that the vet felt he needed more.
His urine and BP were stable and his physical exam was very good.

<snip>

>Megan
>
>

Tom

Reply to this Message

Phil P. - 19 Sep 2004 08:13 GMT

> Furface was diagnosed with early stage CRF a little over a year ago.
> My vet put him on g/d dry food and started him on fluids right away.

Why did your vet start your cat on fluid therapy "right away"? Was your cat
dehydrated or in a uremic crisis?

Fluid therapy can be used to promote diuresis which flushes uremic toxins
from the system. However, if your cat isn't dehydrated or severely
azotemic, fluid therapy can be detrimental. Diuresis increases SNGRF
(single-nephron glomerular filtration) and promotes glomerular
hyperfiltration, which promotes progression of CRF.

Dry food isn't a good idea, either, for a renal cat (any cat) because the
cat's total water intake and turnover is much less than if fed canned food.

I think you may want to find a vet whose a little more experienced in
treating cats in renal failure.

Phil

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Brandy??Alexandre - 18 Sep 2004 22:40 GMT

dtanyol <dtanyol@aol.com> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:

> Hi cat people,
>
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> wet food stack up, or if the proteins are equivalent. Also, lots
> of dry food gives him, you know, the runs.

Well, your best source of information comes from your vet and not
anonymous people on a newsgroup. Any advice you get here should be
confirmed. That said, I have a 16-year-old still thriving with CRF.
After trying to get her to eat prescription foods, etc., we've
decided to stick with her high-quality commercial diet that she
happily eats that does not appear to affect her BUN and creatinine.

Protein is processed by the kidneys, that's why low protein diets
are recommended, but then you have to balance that with the fact
that your little carnivore is supposed to get a lot of protein. You
just have to try a few things to see how your cat best reacts. In
the meantime, I recommend a drinking fountain, either the PetMate or
Drinkwell, to encourage your cat to drink a lot of water. It helps
a LOT.

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Brandy??Alexandre - 18 Sep 2004 22:41 GMT

dtanyol <dtanyol@aol.com> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:

> SO: Can anyone recommend a low-protein beef-flavored wet food? I
> need to get below 8% protein, because even after years of eating
> 8% protein food (which is much lower than most commercial brands),
> he has still developed kidney insufficiency. Any recommendations
> would be wonderful!

I forgot this part. Kami eats Science Diet Senior food. They do have
a beef variety (though she's very partial to the chicken Savory Cuts
since they discontinued her all-time favorite fish).

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Brandy??Alexandre?
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