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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / September 2004Indoor cats:Quality of life (again)
Wow! I think I started this thread...at least the most recent incarnation of it a while back, on Sept. 2. I appreciate all the input and suggestions. Consensus was to get a pair of cats, and, if possible, have some sort of screened enclosure so they could venture out, get fresh air, etc. That's not possible as I live in a townhouse development. I remain conflicted about keeping a cat or cats under house arrest, but I think that is my only option. I have lost three free-range furballs, two almost certainly to coyotes, and a third to an attack by two roving dogs, so I think for my situation, I have finally gotten the message. Truth to tell, all three losses have occurred over the years at three different locations. My present townhome is an end unit facing an urban forest (native reservation). It's a terrific site, a good distance from a busy road. Skunks, raccoons, deer, other cats, bears, and of course, the coyotes who "team hunt" ...all seen off my patio. My late lamented little guy did not stand a chance, though he had 4 years of liberty, a privilege which he never abused, sticking close to home and never being allowed out after dark. Just a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time in the woods. Don't believe the myth that coyotes are most active only at dawn and dusk. My Bailey was almost surely taken circa late afternoon. Had two black bears a couple of days ago, mugging my bird feeder and sucking the sunflower seeds out of it. Very nonchalant guys, not a bit fazed as I stood on the safe side of the glass, going for multiple "Kodak moments". It's a great place to live,but with respect to allowing a cat out, it has a sinister dark side. And I fully realize that wild predators are not the only perils out there. I enjoyed the many informative postings on this topic. Blair Thompson North Vancouver, B.C. >I remain conflicted about keeping a cat >or cats under house arrest, but I think that >is my only option. No, it's not your only option. For someone in your situation there is a good compromise. Train your cat(s) to walk on a harness and leash and take them out for regular excursions. Here is the best type of harness to get: http://metpet.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/walkingjacket.html I have several friends that take their cats out on a harness regularly and it keeps the cat safe but still lets it have outdoor time. Everybody wins. Megan  Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray Zuzu22@webtv.net writes >I have several friends that take >their cats out on a harness regularly >and it keeps the cat safe but still >lets it have outdoor time. >Everybody wins. Except those cats who become frightened at passing cars or noises and get out of the harness. >Except those cats who become >frightened at passing cars or noises and >get out of the harness. When properly adjusted, the walking jacket is escape proof which is why I recommend only that type of harness. I've tested it myself many times and use it when I'm in the process of socializing frightened feral cats that I can't just walk up to and pick up. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray >>Except those cats who become >>frightened at passing cars or noises and [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I have 2 of the Metpet jackets and used them before I put up the enclosure. Believe me --they WERE properly adjusted, and as luvscat said, one of mine who was quite secure when calm got out of it when he was frightened by a 2 year old kid. Unfortunately, they can't be trusted to keep a cat 100% secure. >"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do >nothing." [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >- W.H. Murray zuzu22@webtv.net writes >When properly adjusted, the walking jacket is escape proof which is why >I recommend only that type of harness. I never heard of a walking jacket. What type of store sells it. I just (quickly) checked Petco's webpage and didn't find anything. Not that I'd let my precious sweeties out..but it's good to know! >zuzu22@webtv.net >writes [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >(quickly) checked Petco's webpage and didn't find anything. Not that I'd let >my precious sweeties out..but it's good to know! http://metpet.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/walkingjacket.html But, you were correct. Although VERY secure, they aren't 100% reliable. A scared cat has a high probability of squirming out of it. eq > Although VERY secure, they aren't >100% reliable. >A scared cat has a high probability >of squirming out of it. Then, it's not something to consider. Especially if one is uncertain if the cat will balk or not! eq wrote: >Although VERY secure, they aren't 100% >reliable. A scared cat has a high >probability of squirming out of it. Again, I disagree. If your cat got out of it it was because the jacket was NOT adjusted properly. The probability of a cat squirming out of one is not "high" provided it is properly adjusted. I've experienced cats freaking and trying to get away several times and the jackets stayed on just fine in every instance. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray >eq wrote: >>Although VERY secure, they aren't 100% [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Mine stayed on in every instance too --- except one. I no longer have to worry, however, as they'll never have to wear the jacket again, with the enclosure up. You are right however -- I shouldn't have said the probability was high -- although when it's your cat running towards the street in terror at being outside for the first time un-secured, the probability is INDEED high! eq >"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do >nothing." [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >- W.H. Murray >>eq wrote: >>>Although VERY secure, they aren't 100% [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >street in terror at being outside for the first time un-secured, the >probability is INDEED high! Well, I wouldn't take a cat outside for the first time in a place where he could make a dash for the street. With our cats, we started slowly by just opening the back door and urging them to come out. They took it at their own pace, which was pretty slow. But our backyard is fenced, and if something were to startle them, the natural inclination would be to run back inside. > Well, I wouldn't take a cat outside for the first time in a place where he > could make a dash for the street. With our cats, we started slowly by just > opening the back door and urging them to come out. They took it at their own > pace, which was pretty slow. But our backyard is fenced, and if something were > to startle them, the natural inclination would be to run back inside. See, this is why I don't understand why people insist that a cat has a better quality of life outdoors. My experience with cats has always been like the above description - they are *terrified* of being outside (we first thought, "Gee, we have a nice 8-foot-fenced back yard, I bet the cats would love to come play in the grass."), try to run inside at the first chance, and never try to "escape" when door are accidentally left open. They would *never* voluntarily go outside. I don't see the sense in trying to "force" them to "enjoy" the great outdoors. Why take the chance of them getting fleas, ticks, heartworm, worms, other parasites, mauled by dogs, hit by cars, poisoned by cat-hating neighbors, tortured by nut cases, diseases from other cats, injuries from fights with other cats, etc., etc., etc. As far as their quality of life indoors... They have more cat trees than I have chairs in the house, every toy ever made for a cat, lots or room to run, and each other to play with. There is absolutely nothing outside that they're missing and they seem to know where they have it good - and they intend to *stay* there. So, given the choice of indoors or outdoors, mine have clearly made their decision known. Hugs, CatNipped >> Well, I wouldn't take a cat outside for the first time in a place where he >> could make a dash for the street. With our cats, we started slowly by just [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >better quality of life outdoors. My experience with cats has always been >like the above description - they are *terrified* of being outside I think you have misunderstood my post. Our cats have never been terrified being outside. They enjoy going outside. In fact, if they don't get their usual morning and evening walks, they are clearly upset. What I meant is that it's generally wiser to let a cat proced outdoors on his own volition than to harness him up, grab him and plop him outdoors. Our cats' first forays outdoors were done with the usual mix of caution and glee that kittens generally exhibit in any new situation. (we first >thought, "Gee, we have a nice 8-foot-fenced back yard, I bet the cats would >love to come play in the grass."), try to run inside at the first chance, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >cars, poisoned by cat-hating neighbors, tortured by nut cases, diseases from >other cats, injuries from fights with other cats, etc., etc., etc. As I said, our cats very much want to go outdoors and enjoy their walks. Since they are either leashed or in our fenced backyard, they are not exposed to the dangers you list. However, they are free to chase bugs and leaves, enjoy the sun and fresh air, sniff all sorts of interesting new smells or just lie in the grass and watch the world go by if they choose. >As far as their quality of life indoors... They have more cat trees than I >have chairs in the house, every toy ever made for a cat, lots or room to >run, and each other to play with. There is absolutely nothing outside that >they're missing and they seem to know where they have it good - and they >intend to *stay* there. So, given the choice of indoors or outdoors, mine >have clearly made their decision known. And some cats do prefer not to go out, if outside is scary or has been made in some way scary to them. But in my experience the majority of cats do enjoy safe outdoor access if it can be provided. > I think you have misunderstood my post. Our cats have never been terrified > being outside. They enjoy going outside. In fact, if they don't get their > usual > morning and evening walks, they are clearly upset. Oh, sorry - I didn't mean to imply that you forced your cats to go outdoors against their will. I simply meant that *my* cats, or any other cats, who are afraid of the outdoors should not be put outdoors. > What I meant is that it's generally wiser to let a cat proced outdoors on > his [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > that > kittens generally exhibit in any new situation. > As I said, our cats very much want to go outdoors and enjoy their walks. > Since [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > in the > grass and watch the world go by if they choose. If they enjoy it, and are safe and supervised, then by all means they should do what they enjoy. However, for me, even if my cats enjoyed it, it's not worth the risk of the flea infestation that would ultimately result (we live in Houston Texas and we have to fight against fleas coming inside on the *humans* in the house 12 months out of the year). > And some cats do prefer not to go out, if outside is scary or has been > made in > some way scary to them. But in my experience the majority of cats do enjoy > safe > outdoor access if it can be provided. I've had a different experience. My oldest cat, Bandit, 14, was apparently abandoned outside my home when I lived in New Orleans and she *ran* inside my house (at that time, to her, a stranger's house) just to get in out of the scary "out". She has never gone near a door leading outside. Demi, 6, was apparently abandoned outside of my husband's co-worker's house and drove to my husband's work in the engine compartment of his co-worker's truck. My husband fished her out of some bushes, put her in a box, and then brought her home. She will not go anywhere *near* a door leading outside and usually hides under the bed when anyone opens the door. Jessie, 5, was raised by her mother outside until she was about 5 months old (when she came to live with us). She is the only one who will even poke her nose out of the door, but she will remained crouched down and ready to bolt back into the house at the least little noise. Sammy, 5 months, was born in a closet and raised indoors until she was 6 weeks old (when she came to live with us), and she will not go near a door leading outside. We tried putting her on our back deck in order to get some good pictures of her in the sunlight, but she was so frightened (trembling) that I quickly brought her back inside. They are all safe and comfortable in their home and they all freely choose that safety and comfort over going outside. I don't try to change their minds since I am more comfortable with them being safely inside. I don't try to encourage them to enjoy the outdoors because I don't want to deal with the resultant parasites, or worry about them running out of an open door and then having to face all the dangers that I detailed in my previous post. I think that a if a cat could reason out all the dangers to them associated with the outdoors, then conciously compare that to the "freedom" they might feel being outdoor, they would probably choose an indoor life (cats *are* smart after all!). Hugs, CatNipped >If they enjoy it, and are safe and supervised, then by all means they should >do what they enjoy. However, for me, even if my cats enjoyed it, it's not >worth the risk of the flea infestation that would ultimately result (we live >in Houston Texas and we have to fight against fleas coming inside on the >*humans* in the house 12 months out of the year). We haven't had any problems with fleas; however, our cats are on Revolution to prevent heartworm, and it also protects against fleas. I don't know whether Houston has a big problem with heartworm--usually if protective meds are advised for dogs, than cats are also at risk and it doesn't matter whether they are indoor or outdoor cats in term of heartworm risk. Heartworm risk is low in our area but since we take our cats on vacation to higher risk areas, we use Revolution spring to fall. >> And some cats do prefer not to go out, if outside is scary or has been >> made in [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >feel being outdoor, they would probably choose an indoor life (cats *are* >smart after all!). Like I said, my experience has been different, even with a stray cat we took in last year. She'd obviously had a hard time during the time she'd spent outdoors (she obviously had belonged to someone at some point, because she was far too friendly to be feral) but she still wants to go outside. Although an adult when we found her, she learned the house rules quickly about when we go out and when we come back in. I've never had a cat that didn't enjoy spending time outside, but that's just my own experience. Since your cats have apparently had some frightening experiences, of course I would not force them to go outside if they don't want to. > Like I said, my experience has been different, even with a stray cat we > took in [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > they > don't want to. Please don't think I am criticizing people who allow their cats to go outdoors, I'm not - different living conditions, different neighborhoods, different cat personalities, etc. all play a factor in whether or not you allow you cats out. I'm only saying that my cats are happy staying inside all the time (which is, I believe, where this thread started - someone asked if cats could have a good quality of life staying indoors only). And I'm happy with that arrangement too because I would not want to put up with some of the things indoor/outdoor cats bring. Hugs, CatNipped > >zuzu22@webtv.net > >writes [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > But, you were correct. Although VERY secure, they aren't 100% reliable. > A scared cat has a high probability of squirming out of it. I think they have a secret setting whereby they convert to a liquid state for a split second. > Zuzu22@webtv.net writes > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Except those cats who become frightened at passing cars or noises and get out > of the harness. I was thinking that any of my cats would stone freak out if I even tried to put that thing on. And once it was on, the dance of death to get it off would take place. Then once outside, the cat would jump 6 feet to my face with claws fully extended to rip my face off from the fear. If you start as kittens this may work, but no adult cat that I ever had would want anything to do with a harness. Bluesman > > Zuzu22@webtv.net writes > > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Bluesman Well, that's a little severe. Mine did, however, seem to immediately become paralyzed from the shoulder down and would simply flop over if you tried to move them. I know people who have really persevered and the cats adapt and love going out in their harness. Other adult cats I've know have taken to it like a fish to water. Mine, I just gave up on, as it was too pitiful watching them just lie there (or else having only the "back up" gear). >> luvskats00@aol.com (Luvskats00) wrote in message >news:<20040914191633.29571.00000047@mb-m01.aol.com>... [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >like a fish to water. Mine, I just gave up on, as it was too pitiful >watching them just lie there (or else having only the "back up" gear). Mine adapted fairly quickly, and I started the kittens at 3 years old. The biggest problem was giving them equal time outside. Letting them have 1 hour each outside meant I had to spend 4 hors total walking around with each of them. The enclosure is soooooo much better! Here's a few shots of Floppy in a wooded area I used to take him for his walk. This was right before the "incident" where he freaked and escaped the harness, BTW. The picture in the car is about t-1 minute, when I got home and was walking him back into the house and the neighbor's 2 year old nephew spooked him. I now realize that had something happened in the woods that day to freak him out, I would've had a MUCH worse problem. eq http://web.newsguy.com/equalizer/harness1.jpg http://web.newsguy.com/equalizer/harness2.jpg > Here's a few shots of Floppy I love tabby cats. >> Here's a few shots of Floppy > >I love tabby cats. Mom's a tiger and dad was a jet black feral. The litter was 5 tigers and one black one, all boys. > >> Here's a few shots of Floppy > > > >I love tabby cats. > > Mom's a tiger and dad was a jet black feral. The litter was 5 tigers and one black one, all boys. Do you call tabbies "tigers," or does that mean a type of tabby? My Cheeks is a Mackeral Tabby because her stripes are like a fish skeleton. >> >> Here's a few shots of Floppy >> > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Do you call tabbies "tigers," or does that mean a type of tabby? My Cheeks >is a Mackeral Tabby because her stripes are like a fish skeleton. I don't know if it's correct usage, but I call them tigers. I believe tabby is the English name of the "breed"? They're referred to as DSH Tigers (Domestic Short Hair) on the vet's papers as well. > >> >> Here's a few shots of Floppy > >> > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I don't know if it's correct usage, but I call them tigers. I believe tabby is the English name of the "breed"? They're referred to as DSH Tigers (Domestic Short Hair) on the vet's papers as well. I've seen DSH but never "tiger." Anyway, they're beautiful. >> Mom's a tiger and dad was a jet black feral. The litter was 5 tigers and > one black one, all boys. > > Do you call tabbies "tigers," or does that mean a type of tabby? My Cheeks > is a Mackeral Tabby because her stripes are like a fish skeleton. Oh, is that what mackerel tabby means? I thought it had to do with partly grey color. I just now googled up some photos of mackerel fish, and whaddayaknow -- they're striped. (I love images.google.com) I'd always called them tiger cats, and called tabby the ones with broader stripes that went into sort of a volleyball pattern on the hip. My brother had a gorgeous mackerel tabby for many years. He was adopted at about 4 months when some neighbors moved out and left him behind, after declawing him, yet. He appeared to be largely Abyssinian, because he had that shape, and the individual hairs were ticked (striped). He looked a lot like the Kliban cat posters, and a popular one showed a cat lying in what I call the chicken roosting position, with all the feet and tail tucked under, with the caption, "cat: small, furry animal often mistaken for meatloaf." So he named him Meatloaf. Meatloaf was a wonderful, friendly lap cat. If everyone was standing in a room, he would look up and meow as if to say, "Where's the lap?" He was fortunate, in that, back when he was declawed, some vets left the digits intact, and only removed the claw. I read that they abandoned this procedure years ago, because often some of the claw grew back on the inside, but Meatloaf didn't have this problem. Meatloaf had all his digits, and never developed any problems typical of declawed cats. He seemed to think he still had his claws, because he "sharpened" his pads all the time on cardboard. He was declawed so young, though, that the base of his tail grew very thick and muscular, because he apparently used it like a rudder to balance. He loved to lie down on people's backs when they were lying down, and knead. He gave nice backrubs. When Meatloaf later had housemate cats with claws, when he wrestled with them, he would wrap those arms around them and squeeze them until they squealed. Signaturejamie (jamiemck@newsguy.com) "There's a seeker born every minute." >He was fortunate, in that, back when he was declawed, some vets >left the digits intact, and only removed the claw. I read that >they abandoned this procedure years ago, because often some of the >claw grew back on the inside, but Meatloaf didn't have this problem. Do you mean part of the toe? I don't think it's possible to actually declaw a cat and leave the digits intact--the claws would always grow back, not just sometimes. >>He was fortunate, in that, back when he was declawed, some vets >>left the digits intact, and only removed the claw. I read that [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > cat and leave the digits intact--the claws would always grow back, not just > sometimes. From what I read about 20-ish years ago, it wasn't always, but very often, and that's why it was abandoned. Signaturejamie (jamiemck@newsguy.com) "There's a seeker born every minute." >From: ">equalizer <> >http://web.newsguy.com/equalizer/harness1.jpg >http://web.newsguy.com/equalizer/harness2.jpg What a beautiful cat! :) Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecatjournal.com/articles/claws.htm >>> luvskats00@aol.com (Luvskats00) wrote in message >> news:<20040914191633.29571.00000047@mb-m01.aol.com>... [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > http://web.newsguy.com/equalizer/harness1.jpg > http://web.newsguy.com/equalizer/harness2.jpg My he is gorgeous. >>>> luvskats00@aol.com (Luvskats00) wrote in message >>> news:<20040914191633.29571.00000047@mb-m01.aol.com>... [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > >My he is gorgeous. Thanks! He's very, very special (and spoiled). > >>>> luvskats00@aol.com (Luvskats00) wrote in message > >>> news:<20040914191633.29571.00000047@mb-m01.aol.com>... [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > Thanks! He's very, very special (and spoiled). He is beautiful! But then again I would think so because he reminds me of my Tigger in her youth. She has faded some and is going gray now. W >>Well, that's a little severe. Mine did, however, seem to immediately become >>paralyzed from the shoulder down and would simply flop over if you tried to >>move them. Cherokee also suffered from harness paralysis. He'd also flatten out on the ground, and somehow create this weird vaccum where you couldn't even get two fingers under him to pry him up. > Except those cats who become frightened at passing cars or noises and get out > of the harness. Actually, the figure "8" type design - i.e., around the neck and behind the front legs, when adjusted right - snug but not tight - is virtually impossible to escape from. We use harnesses designed along the same principal as the walking jacket and never had an escape yet - and some of our residents are extremely ornery and cantankerous individuals! Its best to let them get used to wearing it indoors, first - A lot of catnip and treats help so they learn to associate the harness with good things. Phil Since my baby has been indoors for all 4 3/4 years of his life....i'll keep it that way! Thanks though! :-) > Actually, the figure "8" type design - i.e., around the neck and behind the > front legs, when adjusted right - snug but not tight - is virtually > impossible to escape from. We use harnesses designed along the same > principal as the walking jacket and never had an escape yet - and some of > our residents are extremely ornery and cantankerous individuals! Rowan escaped from that one. Just backed up and sqeezed her little shoulders in and POP! out she was. The problem I had with the figure 8 was that I couldn't make the neck tight enough without it being too tight across her shoulder area. So when she squeezed her shoulders out, it just slipped right off her neck. We used a figure H after that and no escapes. Individual setting of the neck and tummy width was the saver. Then again, Rowan is, as I affectionately call her, "ferret-kitty". She's long, thin, and squirmy as all hell when she wants to be. These days she's very used to being out on lead and we just use a martingale ("no-slip") dog collar. Signature-- ~kaeli~ Acupuncture is a jab well done. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace >Rowan escaped from that one. Just backed up and sqeezed her little shoulders >in and POP! out she was. The problem I had with the figure 8 was that I >couldn't make the neck tight enough without it being too tight across her >shoulder area. So when she squeezed her shoulders out, it just slipped right >off her neck. This is good info., I didn't know about the figure 8 leash. I think leash-training cats is great. I do understand the people who are afraid to try it though. If I'd had a harness on my dachshund instead of a collar he'd be alive today. I took him out in public with me (I did that often). He saw a stray dog, and somehow did this ducking/wiggling/backing up thing, and jerked out of the collar. He ran straight in front of a car and was killed. Problem was his neck and his head were too close to the same size for a regular collar. >From: sriddles@aol.comkitty (Sherry ) > If I'd had a harness on my dachshund instead of a collar he'd be >alive today. I took him out in public with me (I did that often). He saw a >stray dog, and somehow did this ducking/wiggling/backing up thing, and jerked >out of the collar. He ran straight in front of a car and was killed. Sherry, I'm so sorry :( Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecatjournal.com/articles/claws.htm > This is good info., I didn't know about the figure 8 leash. I think > leash-training cats is great. I do understand the people who are afraid to try [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > out of the collar. He ran straight in front of a car and was killed. Problem > was his neck and his head were too close to the same size for a regular collar. That's what I really like about the martingale collars. They're basically modified chokers. Instead of a single ring, there's a double set so that it can only go so tight. But it does tighten, so if the animal backs up, the collar tightens up and they can't get out of it. You can get them with or without chain parts (the main collar is cloth, some have chain between the rings to make the typical "choker" correction sound without the harsh correction). It's a great option for dogs with narrow heads, such as greyhounds, doxies, and the like. I also like it for my Rowan, but she's an unusual cat who is fine on lead outside and we don't go far, so she doesn't get scared and pull. I would not recommend this as a starter collar for a cat at all, because they can pull and hurt their necks, but for older puppies, small dogs, and some experienced leash-walking cats, I think they're awesome. Here's what they look like. All cloth: http://www.northwindcatalog.com/martingale_collars.htm With metal rings: http://www.houndsaroundtown.com/dogshop/images/TrainingCollar01.GIF Signature-- ~kaeli~ Persons disagreeing with facts are always emotional and employ faulty reasoning. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace kaeli <tiny_one@NOSPAM.comcast.net> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: > It's a great option for dogs with narrow heads, such as > greyhounds, doxies, and the like. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > puppies, small dogs, and some experienced leash-walking cats, I > think they're awesome. Kami got out of a harness oncce. I had both bands tightened so I could slip two fingers beneath, which is what was recommended. She still managed it. But she's always been an escape artist. SignatureBrandy??Alexandre? http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you? >From: kaeli tiny_one@NOSPAM.comcast.net >phil@maxshouse.com >enlightened us with... [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >We used a figure H after that and no escapes. Individual setting of the neck >and tummy width was the saver. Glad to hear this. I bought the H kind for my cats. Although they've only had them on inside the house so far, they do seem pretty secure. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecatjournal.com/articles/claws.htm > Then again, Rowan is, as I affectionately call her, "ferret-kitty". She's long, thin, and squirmy as all hell when she wants to be. This is my Cheeks. I call it "weaselly." She is such a strong squirmer! Yet rarely puts out her claws. And when she lies on her side and stretches I swear she's 6 feet long. ;) > > Then again, Rowan is, as I affectionately call her, "ferret-kitty". She's > long, thin, and squirmy as all hell when she wants to be. > > > This is my Cheeks. I call it "weaselly." She is such a strong squirmer! Yet > rarely puts out her claws. And when she lies on her side and stretches I > swear she's 6 feet long. ;) Yup, Rowan can squirm like crazy and fuss very loudly, but with me, she never puts out her claws or bites. The only cat I've ever had that can turn herself completely around while being scruffed for a pill or shot. She has taffy for skin when she wants away, I swear. Plus, you don't want to hurt her, so when she does that, you let go, and she knows it...the player. *laughs* Of course, if she *doesn't* like you (like say, the vet), she can actually bite you while being scruffed. Exorcist Kitty. *heh* The vet has to employ two techs for injections (one to hold her front and one for her rear) and it took *4* techs to restrain her to do her anal glands. For an 8 pound cat. Oh, the irony. Signature-- ~kaeli~ Profanity: the single language in which all programmers are expert. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace > > > Then again, Rowan is, as I affectionately call her, "ferret-kitty". She's > > long, thin, and squirmy as all hell when she wants to be. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > For an 8 pound cat. > Oh, the irony. This is where Rowan differs from Cheeks. Cheeks is sooooo polite. She has never made a single sound at the vet, she just tries to be very small. Even when she gets a needle, no sound at all. But when she is at home and doesn't want to be caught or held, (like the time she got out into the back yard via the hole in the wall for the washer hose) OMG, my heart was in my throat watching her get caught, then squirm and leap away from my husband over and over again. Had she not jumped straight back in the back door we might never have gotten her. Thank God she *wanted* back in. Again--while she squirms--no sounds. She tends to "talk" during the peaceful times. Galloping by with a "MRRRP!" as she passes me. Making the tiniest, softest, high-pitched "eeee" when I go to kiss her head when she is sleepy, as if to say "aww, do you really have to?" And of course, the wild jungle sounds of the rubber snake being conquered again and again.:) >>I remain conflicted about keeping a cat >>or cats under house arrest, but I think that [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >and it keeps the cat safe but still lets it have outdoor time. Everybody >wins. I agree with Megan. If we lived in such a setting we would be taking walks with our cats on their leashes at least twice a day. They love walking in the woods. blair@abcomm.ca (blair thompson) writes >Wow! I think I started this >thread...at least the most recent incarnation of it a while back, on >Sept. 2. This thread was introduced waaaaaay back and is brought back to life on a regular basis! lol >I remain conflicted about keeping >a cat or cats under house arrest, >but I think that is my only option. You can let the cats out when: they can tell the diff between red & green traffic signals, read walk/don't walk signs, know to keep away from toxic substances, look both ways before crossing, have an alarm warning them of stray dogs/wild animals within 300 feet and carry automatic weapons against humans with sociopathic tendencies. |
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