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Lethal dose of morphine for a cat

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A.J. Rivett - 16 Sep 2004 17:44 GMT
When the time comes and I have to euthanize my cat, I would like to do
it in the kindest way.  I think this would be a nice meal of tuna
juice and tuna with some morphine in the tuna juice.

I have been told that 5 mg of morphine should be enough and that my
cat would just fall asleep after eating her last meal.  She wouldn't
be traumatized at all and her last thoughts would be how nice the tuna
tasted and now just a long nap until her next life.

My question is whether 5 mg of morphine is about right.  I don't want
to traumatize the cat by having someone give her a needle or by having
to take her to the vet (she hates the vet).   I know that they don't
give morphine, they give potassium chloride or something like that and
I think morphine may be more expensive but it's a nicer way to go.
Kathryn Stein - 16 Sep 2004 18:54 GMT
>When the time comes and I have to euthanize my cat, I would like to do
>it in the kindest way.  I think this would be a nice meal of tuna
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>give morphine, they give potassium chloride or something like that and
>I think morphine may be more expensive but it's a nicer way to go.

The most humane euthanization, imho, would be to have the vet make a
house visit. I've had that done and it was very peaceful.
jamie - 16 Sep 2004 21:05 GMT
>>When the time comes and I have to euthanize my cat, I would like to do
>>it in the kindest way.  I think this would be a nice meal of tuna
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> The most humane euthanization, imho, would be to have the vet make a
> house visit. I've had that done and it was very peaceful.

Agreed.  In the drugged-tuna scenario, there's no way to be sure the
cat wouldn't vomit the drug, or if he would eat enough of it mixed
in food in the first place.  Opiates cause vomiting in a percentage
of humans, I would expect the same in cats.  A semi-conscious cat
aspirating vomit could turn this idealized scenario into a nightmare.

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         "There's a seeker born every minute."

PawsForThought - 16 Sep 2004 22:45 GMT
>From: jamie@spam-me-silly.net  (jamie)

>>>When the time comes and I have to euthanize my cat, I would like to do
>>>it in the kindest way.  I think this would be a nice meal of tuna
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>of humans, I would expect the same in cats.  A semi-conscious cat
>aspirating vomit could turn this idealized scenario into a nightmare.

Also, how many cats that are so ill that euthansia would be considered would
even be able to eat?  

I've had the vet come to my house too and I think that's the least stressful.  

Lauren
________
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A.J. Rivett - 17 Sep 2004 13:48 GMT
> >From: jamie@spam-me-silly.net  (jamie)
>  
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> Lauren

Thank you for your response.  I was aware of the vomiting scenario as
this is a problem in humans.  I will probably opt for the vet visit
although when the initial sedative was given to one of my previous
cats, it was not appreciated by the cat.  She couldn't figure out why
she was losing her coordination and she became agitated.  That is why
I'm looking to something that will allow her to sleep without knowing
that she is being snuffed.

My belief is that cats know when somebody is trying to off them and a
needle in the butt is a sure sign that something's up.
PawsForThought - 17 Sep 2004 17:00 GMT
>From: grinmonkey@playful.com  (A.J. Rivett)

>> >From: jamie@spam-me-silly.net  (jamie)
>>  
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
>My belief is that cats know when somebody is trying to off them and a
>needle in the butt is a sure sign that something's up.

Yes, unfortunately, I also had a bad experience when one of my cats was
euthanized.  She was very ill and the vet had a hard time finding a vein, plus
she was protesting greatly.  My husband tried to remind me that anything a vet
did to Queenie always made her upset.  But still it was really horrible.  So
like you, I would also like to know of a better way.

Lauren
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Sunflower - 17 Sep 2004 21:34 GMT
> >From: grinmonkey@playful.com  (A.J. Rivett)
>
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
> did to Queenie always made her upset.  But still it was really horrible.  So
> like you, I would also like to know of a better way.

A IM injection of a sedative and then a direct cardiac stick with the
euthanasia drug would be easiest on an animal that had hydration problems or
other issues with finding a vein.  Unfortunately, most pet owners are more
upset by this procedure than repeated attempts to find a vein.  A direct
cardiac stick on an already sedated patient is painless and exceedingly
quick.  It's just not "pretty".  I've participated in probably 200 animal
euthnasias by a veterinarian with me acting as a tech, and on the small
kittens or sick cats, this was the optimal procedure for shelter animals
because it was the most humane.  The vet rarely offered this to any but the
most medically knowledgable pet owners however, because of the poor reaction
that most of them had to the image of a needle to the heart.
A.J. Rivett - 18 Sep 2004 23:39 GMT
">
> A IM injection of a sedative and then a direct cardiac stick with the
> euthanasia drug would be easiest on an animal that had hydration problems or
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> most medically knowledgable pet owners however, because of the poor reaction
> that most of them had to the image of a needle to the heart.

Thank you.

This is helpful.
Phil P. - 18 Sep 2004 09:13 GMT
I will probably opt for the vet visit
> although when the initial sedative was given to one of my previous
> cats, it was not appreciated by the cat.  She couldn't figure out why
> she was losing her coordination and she became agitated.

Either your vet is an a.shole or he had no training in euthanasia.

Your vet should have used a catheter to ensure that your cat died
peacefully, without adverse effects.  After the saline flush he should have
used a rapid acting barbiturate - like thiopental, which puts the cat into a
mellow state of relaxation and then anesthesia before the final drug.

Euthanasia should be conducted like a ceremony.  Its the final gift that we
lovingly bestow upon our dearly loved cats.  I make absolutely sure our
terminally ill and dying cats' euthanasias are conducted with the same
respect and reverence as my own.   I have no tolerance for vets who simply
kill cats as part of a day's work.
-L. : - 19 Sep 2004 05:37 GMT
<snippy>

> I have no tolerance for vets who simply
> kill cats as part of a day's work.

Unfortunately, that's how a lot of vets and techs approach it -
especially if the guardian refuses to be present.  One of the most
upsetting things I witnessed was a tech euthing an 8-week old FIP
kitten all the while laughing and joking with another tech.  It was
just so damn disrespectful.  I silently wept.

-L.
Phil P. - 19 Sep 2004 07:55 GMT
> <snippy>
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> kitten all the while laughing and joking with another tech.  It was
> just so damn disrespectful.  I silently wept.

In my younger days when I volunteered in a municipal shelter, a vet tech
used an amphetamine to euthanize a cat - he thought it was funny to see the
cat bouncing off the walls of the cage until his heart exploded.  Since the
tech thought it was so funny, I thought he would enjoy bouncing off the
walls, too, for about 20 minutes.  I was wrong... he didn't enjoy it.  I
don't think the tech will ever forget that cat.
-L. : - 21 Sep 2004 01:35 GMT
> > "Phil P." <phil@maxshouse.com> wrote in message
>  news:<p6-dnZqLF4uBc9bcRVn-sQ@giganews.com>...
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> walls, too, for about 20 minutes.  I was wrong... he didn't enjoy it.  I
> don't think the tech will ever forget that cat.

How horrible.  This kind of thing disturbs me but it becomes all too
common when people work in those situations for a long time. Some of
the stuff I have seen (research labs, primarily) just literally makes
me sick.

-L.
Mary - 16 Sep 2004 19:46 GMT
>My question is whether 5 mg of morphine is about right.  I don't want
>to traumatize the cat by having someone give her a needle or by having
>to take her to the vet (she hates the vet).   I know that they don't
>give morphine, they give potassium chloride or something like that and
>I think morphine may be more expensive but it's a nicer way to go.

One thing to consider is that morphine is a controlled substance. You won't be
able to get it yourself. You will probably have to ask your vet to get it and
come to the house to administer it legally. I've been told that morphine
overdose is a good way to go if administered properly. They get very high and
feel great, then get unconscious then their organs stop. You just don't want
the organs to stop while they're conscious. That might be scary and painful.
Generally the vet gives valium to calm the animal, sets up an IV then gives
pheno to stop all organs. It's almost instant. I think they should give enough
valium to get the cat unconscious first, then the pheno.
Sunflower - 16 Sep 2004 21:13 GMT
> When the time comes and I have to euthanize my cat, I would like to do
> it in the kindest way.  I think this would be a nice meal of tuna
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> give morphine, they give potassium chloride or something like that and
> I think morphine may be more expensive but it's a nicer way to go.

The problem with administering it orally is that it slows the sytem down and
by the time you get a fatal dose in them, the organs don't work enough to
process it, leaving the animal more or less in a coma situation for hours or
days on end. (You don't even want to know why I know this.) Depending on
your animal's underlying health issues that make this a necessary decision,
some organs might not even work enough to get even a sedative dose of a drug
into the system and certainly won't process it enough for death to occur.
That's not humane.  There's also the issue of regurgitation, which can
happen, and with the cat sedated enough that the gag reflex is disabled, the
cat could choke to death on the vomit.  Also not humane.

Really, the only effective way to euthanize an animal is through injection.
Most vets will come to your home and do this for you and it's much less
stressful than you packaging up and going to their office.  It's far more
peaceful than you may think, and you can be there at the end after their
last supper and hold them while they pass.  It's quick, and painless, which
an oral dose of any drug is NOT.  If you love your cat, give her the final
best gift any owner can give, which is a quick and painless death--from your
veterinarian.
Annie Wxill - 16 Sep 2004 21:41 GMT
...> I think morphine may be more expensive but it's a nicer way to go.

Normally, I just killfile these types of posts, but I'm curious how you know
1. that morphine may be more expensive, and
2. that it's a nicer way to go.
Paulette - 16 Sep 2004 23:00 GMT
If you give a cat morphine (if you could even OBTAIN morphine)  it will
go wild...climb the walls. etc. Morphine also stimulates horses.

I, also, suspect a troll.
A.J. Rivett - 17 Sep 2004 13:43 GMT
> If you give a cat morphine (if you could even OBTAIN morphine)  it will
> go wild...climb the walls. etc. Morphine also stimulates horses.

False

> I, also, suspect a troll.

You, also, are an idiot.
kaeli - 17 Sep 2004 15:11 GMT
> > If you give a cat morphine (if you could even OBTAIN morphine)  it will
> > go wild...climb the walls. etc. Morphine also stimulates horses.
>
> False

True. Sort of.
http://opioids.com/morphine/felinemania.html

[quote]
(1) autonomic stage (0-15 min postdrug): with vocalization, salivation,
licking, swallowing, retching and vomiting; (2) quiet stage (15-60 min
postdrug): sitting, fixed gaze, mydriasis, and pricked pinnae; (3) head
movement stage (from 30-60 min postdrug and decreasing by the 5th hr): fully
aroused but mostly sitting; showing discrete, complex head movements of a
visual-tracking type with pouncing/avoidance paw movements, and with
irregular, dose-dependent bouts of rocking, pivoting, and backing. Sleep,
grooming, micturition and defecation were suppressed.
[/quote]

This certainly doesn't sound like a nice way to die for a cat.

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A.J. Rivett - 17 Sep 2004 13:39 GMT
> ...> I think morphine may be more expensive but it's a nicer way to go.
>
> Normally, I just killfile these types of posts, but I'm curious how you know
> 1. that morphine may be more expensive, and
> 2. that it's a nicer way to go.

1.  Stupid question.  What do you think humans get when they are given
a little too much pain killer and why do you suppose morphine is a
controlled substance?

2.  Why do you think there are so many heroin addicts out there?  

For a curious person, you are pretty clueless.
Adam Helberg - 18 Sep 2004 07:41 GMT
> When the time comes and I have to euthanize my cat, I would like to do
> it in the kindest way.  I think this would be a nice meal of tuna
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> give morphine, they give potassium chloride or something like that and
> I think morphine may be more expensive but it's a nicer way to go.

From where are you going to get morphine?
Camilla Cracchiolo - 19 Sep 2004 11:30 GMT
>When the time comes and I have to euthanize my cat, I would like to do
>it in the kindest way.  I think this would be a nice meal of tuna
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>give morphine, they give potassium chloride or something like that and
>I think morphine may be more expensive but it's a nicer way to go.

Have a vet come to the house, and you can sedate the kitty first,
before the vet arrives. If you can, get your regular vet to give you
medication for it.  If not, the human antihistamine chlorpheniramine
(Chlor Trimeton) can really knock a cat out at a dose of 2-4 mg.

When we had to euthanize my kitty, who had a painful cancer, we had a
vet come to the house.  Since we already had pain medication for him,
(torbutrol), I gave him an oral double dose before the vet arrived.

Then we set up a nice little pillow with a trash bag over it and a
towel over the trash bag.  (bodily fluids can leak at death.  In our
case they didn't, probably because poor Victor was not eating or
drinking.)  It was nice to have it be like a special place and a
little ritual.

The vet then gave him a shot of sedation, which was very quick and
since Victor was already pretty out of it, he didn't react much to. I
held him in my lap, petting him during the shot. Once he was
unconscious, we put him on the pillow, the vet gave him a stick to the
heart and then it was over.  We carried the body out to the vet's van
and he took care of all the cremation and getting the ashes back to
us.  That was very helpful, not to have to deal with all that.

I kind of wish I hadn't watched the cardiac stick, though.  It's how I
remember Victor now and that's hard on me.  On the other hand, it DID
leave me absolutely sure Victor was dead, and so I didn't have the
fear that some people do that their cat was still alive, might have
woken up in the van all alone. (irrational fear, yes, but some people
go through all kinds of stuff as part of grieving.)

It's wasn't cheap, but it was done with love, respect, no fear and
virtually no pain.  If I ever have to euthanize another cat, that's
how we will do it again.

BTW, is your cat already ill?  We let one of our cats die of old age
(22 years old.)  Some people act like you HAVE to euthanize your
animals but our old cat, who was in kidney failure, went very
peacefully during the night.  Not all things that kill cats are
painful and she had a good quality of life up till the end.
___________________________________________________              

             Camilla Cracchiolo
              Registered Nurse
            Los Angeles, California

camilla4@mindspring.com     webpage temporarily down
A.J. Rivett - 20 Sep 2004 19:49 GMT
> BTW, is your cat already ill?  We let one of our cats die of old age
> (22 years old.)  Some people act like you HAVE to euthanize your
> animals but our old cat, who was in kidney failure, went very
> peacefully during the night.  Not all things that kill cats are
> painful and she had a good quality of life up till the end.

My cat is on her third comeback.  I don't know how many she has left
at 16 but to make a long story short, she has a better living
environment now and she is much happier and healthier than even a
month ago.  I am constantly amazed at the recuperative power of this
little female.  I'm going to give her every chance to live without
making her life a series of medical interventions.  She still enjoys a
nice meal and stroking and she is still fond of the outdoors so until
she gets really unstable and unhappy, I'll let nature take its course.

I appreciate the suggestions of the stick to the heart after an IM
sedative even if it isn't 'pretty' as one writer noted.  I hope that
she goes out on her own agenda but I won't let her get unhappy.
Luramao - 29 Sep 2004 00:40 GMT
It is illegal to euthanize humans, so the choice of 'putting them to
sleep' vs morphine never comes up. But, having worked as a nurses aid I
have seen humans essentially overdosed on morphine to death, and I've
also seen humans 'maintained' on morphine while they more slowly died of
dehydration or starvation.  Or, kept on morphine while they die of
whatever is ailing them.   (These people did not seem to have a bad or
painful death.

Such humans dont get their morphine orally nor even by shots, but get
the drug administered via IV.

But, if you're gonna give an animal a 'shot', it doesnt make sense to
give morphine when you can simply give them the normal (?) shot that
puts them to sleep.

I had a cat whom I took to the vet last year thinking it might be for
euthanasia; he was very old and had been very sick for a very long time,
and seemed to be nearing the end.  However, on the way to the vet,
somehow he KNEW, and he began looking me at imploringly, pleadingly, and
I couldnt do it.  He ended up living another 4 weeks, mostly spent
peacefully sleeping; he didnt seem to be suffering or in pain, and in
the end, he just went to sleep one night and didnt wake up.   I was very
glad I left it up to him as to when to go......

But, now I have another very sick cat, this one, alas only about 3 years
old, and in severe renal failure.  
[???????????????????????????????????????]

I would prefer for her to guide me, but, if I have to make the decision,
if she is suffering or in pain, if she has to be put down, I'm thinking
I want it to be done with a captive bolt pistol.   I believe, and I have
also heard a vet say, that this is the quickest, least traumatic way of
doing it.   It is instantaneous and the animal doesnt see it coming.
I've heard that it can be difficult to find a "pet" vet who has a
captive bolt pistol tho.   Has anybody ever had a pet put down this way?
Marek Williams - 30 Sep 2004 07:18 GMT
>also heard a vet say, that this is the quickest, least traumatic way of
>doing it.   It is instantaneous and the animal doesnt see it coming.
>I've heard that it can be difficult to find a "pet" vet who has a
>captive bolt pistol tho.   Has anybody ever had a pet put down this way?

What is a captive bolt pistol?

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Luramao - 01 Oct 2004 05:40 GMT
What's a captive bolt pistol?

Its a gun that  has a steel bolt, powered by compressed air or a blank
cartridge.  The bolt is driven into the animal's brain, instantly
killing it.
Livestock are commonly killed by this manner, altho mad cow disease may
call for other means of euthanasia due to the possibility of brain
tissue emboli.   The steel bolt does not fire 'out' of the gun, hence
the name "captive bolt" pistol.   After being fired, the bolt is then
retracted back into the pistol.

A good description can be found on Temple Grandin's site:

www.grandin.com/humane/cap.bolt.tips.html

www.grandin.com/humane/captive.bolt.html

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Lethal dose of morphine for a cat  

Group: rec.pets.cats.health+behav Date: Wed, Sep 29, 2004, 11:18pm
(EDT-3) From: abc@example.com (Marek Williams)
also heard a vet say, that this is the quickest, least traumatic way of
doing it.   It is instantaneous and the animal doesnt see it coming.
I've heard that it can be difficult to find a "pet" vet who has a
captive bolt pistol tho.   Has anybody ever had a pet put down this
way?

What is a captive bolt pistol?
Signature

Bogus e-mail address, but I read this newsgroup regularly, so reply
here.

Mary - 01 Oct 2004 06:32 GMT
What's a captive bolt pistol?

Its a gun that  has a steel bolt, powered by compressed air or a blank
cartridge.  The bolt is driven into the animal's brain, instantly
killing it.
Livestock are commonly killed by this manner, altho mad cow disease may
call for other means of euthanasia due to the possibility of brain
tissue emboli.   The steel bolt does not fire 'out' of the gun, hence
the name "captive bolt" pistol.   After being fired, the bolt is then
retracted back into the pistol.

A good description can be found on Temple Grandin's site:

www.grandin.com/humane/cap.bolt.tips.html

www.grandin.com/humane/captive.bolt.html

Oh yes, I imagine we will all be seeking this out
as a means to euthanize our dying cats. That's disgusting.
Phil P. - 01 Oct 2004 07:19 GMT
> What's a captive bolt pistol?
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> Oh yes, I imagine we will all be seeking this out
> as a means to euthanize our dying cats. That's disgusting.

If you think that's disgusting, Mary, you should have (figuratively) been
around when decompression chambers were the "preferred" method of
"euthanasia" (slaughter) in shelters.
Luramao - 01 Oct 2004 07:42 GMT
Mary said "thats disgusting".

Possibly.

It IS how large animals, cattle, sheep, pigs, and horses are usually put
down.   I have seen cattle put down this way, and the gun was put to
their head, fired, and they instantly dropped, dead.  From start to
finish, the whole thing was over in a couple of seconds.  So.....?

But, as i said earlier, I'd heard/read  a couple of vets say it was the
most humane, instantaneous, and how they would euthanize their own pets.
That's why I inquired as to whether or not anyone here had had a pet
euthanized that way.

I'm not advocating this; just mentioning it as another possibility.
kaeli - 01 Oct 2004 15:10 GMT
> Mary said "thats disgusting".
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> their head, fired, and they instantly dropped, dead.  From start to
> finish, the whole thing was over in a couple of seconds.  So.....?

Actually, this sounds a lot more humane than the old cut the throat and let
them drip-dry method of slaughtering food animals.

As for pets, well, it sounds better (and less messy) than the Old Yeller way
of dying, too, but I think I'll stick to letting the vet do it with the usual
cocktail.
I couldn't kill my own pet, no matter how bad it was suffering. I just
couldn't.

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Mary - 01 Oct 2004 17:18 GMT
> Mary said "thats disgusting".
>
> Possibly.
>
> It IS how large animals, cattle, sheep, pigs, and horses are usually put
down.   I have seen cattle put down this way, and the gun was put to
> their head, fired, and they instantly dropped, dead.  From start to
finish, the whole thing was over in a couple of seconds.  So.....?

I know that some livestock are killed this way. I hate the thought of that
too but not so much that I don't eat muscle meat.

> But, as i said earlier, I'd heard/read  a couple of vets say it was the
most humane, instantaneous, and how they would euthanize their own pets.
That's why I inquired as to whether or not anyone here had had a pet
> euthanized that way.

Well it certainly sounds like a method someone who has killed a lot of
animals might be callous enough to use. My point is that I don't see how it
would be more humane than the shots my cat got that made her sleepy and just
gently fade away--and it would be horrible for anyone who loved the animal.
What is most horrible about it is that it is the equivalent of shooting the
animal in the head but *calculated* to be less messy for human convenience.

> I'm not advocating this; just mentioning it as another possibility.

Right. I wonder why I feel absolutely certain that you are male? There's no
way I could know that, now is there? Silly me.
hamandcheese@betweentheknees.com - 01 Oct 2004 18:59 GMT
>My point is that I don't see how it
>would be more humane than the shots my cat got that made her sleepy and just
>gently fade away

I'm curious about how gentle standard routine really is. I have often
wondered if it like being in a dream state and feeling suffocated as
the heart stops beating. Obviously it doesn't last long.

-mhd
Mary - 01 Oct 2004 20:28 GMT
> >My point is that I don't see how it
> >would be more humane than the shots my cat got that made her sleepy and just
> >gently fade away
>
> I'm curious about how gentle standard routine really is. I have often
wondered if it like being in a dream state and feeling suffocated as the
heart stops beating. Obviously it doesn't last long.

While my cat did not like getting the shots, afterward she really did seem
to just fall asleep.
hamandcheese@betweentheknees.com - 01 Oct 2004 22:06 GMT
>> >My point is that I don't see how it
>> >would be more humane than the shots my cat got that made her sleepy and
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>While my cat did not like getting the shots, afterward she really did seem
>to just fall asleep.

I wonder if there is a dulled sense of panic between the heart
stopping and the final cessation of brain activity. It must be similar
to a heart attack.
Mary - 01 Oct 2004 22:23 GMT
> >> >My point is that I don't see how it
> >> >would be more humane than the shots my cat got that made her sleepy and
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> I wonder if there is a dulled sense of panic between the heart stopping
and the final cessation of brain activity. It must be similar to a heart
attack.

I am curious--and of course if this is too personal I apologize and
retract--have you had a heart attack? I never have, and I wonder what it is
like.
Luramao - 02 Oct 2004 03:34 GMT
Fluffy Skye died at around 7:30/8 pm this evening.

I wrote about it in "her" thread, all the details I mean.  She began to
suffer late this afternoon, so I took her to be put to sleep.

The staff at the animal emergency clinic were very kind and caring, both
to me and to her, and she really did appear to just go to sleep, altho
her eyes remained open.   The only thing she objected to was when the
vet inserted the needle.   The actual injecting of the drugs took place
very quickly, with first an anesthetic going in, so that she would not
feel anything, and then the lethal dose.   She was lying on a pillow
with me and a vet tech stroking her and talking to her, and she was
lying there quietly and seemlessly transitioned from life to the
afterlife.   I couldnt even tell when "it" happened, it was so gradual.
There was no "heart attack", no 'suffocation", just an easy drifting
away.    I am absolutely confident that she didnt feel a thing and there
was no pain, for her.    The only thing that DID happen was that her
suffering was ended early; she didnt have to suffer up to the moment of
what would have been her 'natural' death (the vet checked her vital
signs - her body was shutting down and she was dying anyway.   We just
ended it quicker, and painlessly for her.   Im glad I know that she was
dying; I wont have to second-guess myself about having her put to sleep,
knowing that).  

She's in a better place now, and she went there non-traumatically.

I just wish she hadnt had to go so soon....
hamandcheese@betweentheknees.com - 02 Oct 2004 04:26 GMT
>> >While my cat did not like getting the shots, afterward she really did
>seem
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>retract--have you had a heart attack? I never have, and I wonder what it is
>like.

Not yet LOL, but am in the target years.

-mhd
Mary - 02 Oct 2004 05:31 GMT
> >> >While my cat did not like getting the shots, afterward she really did
> >seem
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> >
> >I am curious--and of course if this is too personal I apologize and
retract--have you had a heart attack? I never have, and I wonder what it is
> >like.
>
> Not yet LOL, but am in the target years.
>
> -mhd

Well, I'm glad you haven't. Did someone tell you it what it was like?

P.S. My motto: they can have my cheese when they pry it from my cold dead
hands--so--I imagine I might be looking at some trouble one day.

My athletic friends have all gotten sports injuries and by the time they get
osteo arthritis from using their joints too much I figure I will be going in
for bypass.
Sherry - 03 Oct 2004 08:58 GMT
>P.S. My motto: they can have my cheese when they pry it from my cold dead
>hands--so--I imagine I might be looking at some trouble one day.

Yeah, cardiologists pretty much think cheese is The Devil. I have no problem
living without red meat. It's the cheese, butter, and ice cream. Wah.

Sherry

>My athletic friends have all gotten sports injuries and by the time they get
>osteo arthritis from using their joints too much I figure I will be going in
>for bypass.
jamie - 02 Oct 2004 06:44 GMT
>> >While my cat did not like getting the shots, afterward she really did
> seem
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> retract--have you had a heart attack? I never have, and I wonder what it is
> like.

One or both of you have "heart attack" (an uncomfortable to very
painful event, usually due to blockages in blood vessels to the heart,
and causing damage to the heart), confused with "cardiac arrest"
(heart stopping).

When not enough blood/oxygen is being pumped to the brain, one of
the first things that happens is loss of consciousness.  (This is
why some people faint when they stand up quickly and blood pressure
doesn't correct quickly enough.  Consciousness is shut-off, because
it's easier to get blood to the head when you're lying on the floor.)

It is my understanding that animals are typically given a sedative
and/or painkillers before the drug that stops their heart, so I frankly
doubt there is any sense of panic, dulled or otherwise, except for the
actual insertion of the needle.    And since one typically euthanizes
an animal *because* it is in significant discomfort, I suspect the
last thing experienced by the animal is a sense of relief from that
discomfort.

Signature

 jamie  (jamiemck@newsguy.com)

         "There's a seeker born every minute."

drew - 04 Oct 2004 14:36 GMT
> Mary said "thats disgusting".
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> I'm not advocating this; just mentioning it as another possibility.

You'll find that many who say things are 'disgusting and/or cruel'
consider only how they react to the method without considering the
reality of the situation.

I have heard that convicted murderers in China are put to death with a
bullet to the brain.  Our sensitivities may find this harsh but would
you rather  have somebody blow you away while you are sleeping or
languish on death row for years and be led to an extermination room
where you would be killed by lethal injection?  This is of course if
you believe in capital punishment at all.  One is killing.  The other
is torture.
drew - 04 Oct 2004 14:47 GMT
> I had a cat whom I took to the vet last year thinking it might be for
> euthanasia; he was very old and had been very sick for a very long time,
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> the end, he just went to sleep one night and didnt wake up.   I was very
> glad I left it up to him as to when to go......

Yeah, my cat would know too.  Fortunately, I think she'll live a while
yet.

> I would prefer for her to guide me, but, if I have to make the decision,
> if she is suffering or in pain, if she has to be put down, I'm thinking
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I've heard that it can be difficult to find a "pet" vet who has a
> captive bolt pistol tho.   Has anybody ever had a pet put down this way?

I'd have a hard time doing it but if it's as fast and instantaneous as
you say, then I would. My old cat deserves the very fastest way out
and I want her to have no idea when it's coming.  Wish somebody would
do it to me in my sleep when I'm ready to go.  I can see it with
livestock but with a little cat, wouldn't a big old bolt practically
blow the little chap's head off?  I don't mean to be crude but I would
imagine for a small animal it would have to be a different guage than
something used for a cow or a sheep.
 
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