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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / September 2004diabetes ???s and food issues
How do you handle two cats with different diets that don't understand they're not supposed to eat the other cat's food? Priss (age 15 1/2) was diagnosed with CRF 2 1/2 years ago, but with improved nutrition (Wellness canned and Royal Canin sr. dry), her numbers went back solidly into the normal range and have stayed there for 2 years. My vet still considers her a CRF cat, though, and I consider her vulnerable. Eddie (age 9 1/2) was just diagnosed as borderline for diabetes. My vet wants him to eat a high protein diet. The Wellness and Royal Canin aren't exactly low protein, but they're not the highest, either. I can probably get Eddie to eat most of his food at breakfast, so if I select a higher protein product, I can put that out first thing in the morning, then pull it and put down the Wellness and Royal Canin, which Priss will eat later in the morning and Eddie will nibble at. This is where my vet and I left the conversation this evening. Eddie needs more testing, so we'll no doubt pick it up again soon. Yet I'm still not sure how to handle this. Has anyone dealt with this situation of the (possibly) conflicting diets? I don't want to switch away from the Wellness/Royal Canin combination since it caused Priss's kidney numbers to improve. That might have happened with other foods, too, but this worked, and I don't want to mess with it. But I need to take care of Eddie's needs, too. And I don't know what the best foods are for diabetic cats. Also, are there any particularly helpful websites for dealing with feline diabetes? Or does anyone with experience in this have any advice? My vet says that for a lot of people, the idea of giving a shot is difficult. That is one problem I don't expect to have. I've given shots to a dog, so it's not totally new to me. I just need to be shown the best way to do it with my own cat and practice a couple of times with the vet present. But I'm really concerned about the progression of the disease and how to keep him happy and healthy for as long as possible. Thanks, Daria Timing is everything. I would recommend going to http://www.felinediabetes.com/fdmb/frames.pl for feline diabetes question.  SignatureLarry - Owned by six cats > How do you handle two cats with different diets that don't understand they're > not supposed to eat the other cat's food? [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Timing is everything. > Eddie (age 9 1/2) was just diagnosed as borderline for diabetes. My vet wants > him to eat a high protein diet. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > where my vet and I left the conversation this evening. Eddie needs more > testing, so we'll no doubt pick it up again soon. Wellness canned is plenty adequate protein for a diabetic cat. The vet probably didn't want to use the trendy term "low-carb", and said high protein instead. The carb content is the relevant issue for the diabetic. Canned kitten food is often recommended, because it has higher protein and lower carb, but I'm pretty sure the Wellness has as much protein, and is lower carb than, for example, Science Diet or Iams canned kitten food. The Royal Canin dry is probably going to be too high in carbs for him, though. I limit dry food to a small snack of a heaping tablespoon for each cat in the evening, because they still beg for crunchies. I give them the Purina prescription diabetes dry for their snack. It's very high in protein, but it's about 11 to 13% carb (the sugarcats site is down, so I can't look the exact figures up), while the Wellness (chicken, turkey, chicken & herring, turkey & salmon) is about 3 percent carb. Signaturejamie (jamiemck@newsguy.com) "There's a seeker born every minute." What was your cats BG number? Is he overweight? By saying high protein, your vet is really saying low-carbs. The best diet for a diabetic cat is a canned low-carb diet and NO DRY FOOD. I'm working with a diabetic cat right now that switched from dry to canned and just doing that brought his BG down over 200 points. Wellness *canned* is a perfect food for diabetic cats and most flavors are lower in carbs than the prescription diets, not to mention much better quality. These are "as fed" numbers for carb% which are more accurate than the guaranteed analysis numbers: Purina DM 7 Wellness: Turkey & Salmon 3.2 Chicken 4.2 Turkey 2.5 Beef & Chicken 2.2 Chicken & Lobster 4.8 Salmon &Trout 7.7 Sardines, Shrimp & Crab 5.9 Chicken & Herring 5.9 If you need help feel free to email me. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray Thanks for the responses. I took a quick look at www.felinediabetes.com and bookmarked it. It is a *HUGE* relief to read that Wellness is a good food for diabetic cats! My cats love it so much, and I think it's been the main reason my CRF kitty's numbers went back into the normal range. I don't want to have to juggle one cat's health against the other's, and if I can continue feeding Wellness, that removes that headache. I'm going to call my vet tomorrow and talk further (today is her day off). She gave me some Purina DM, and I gave Eddie a couple of tablespoons this morning. He gobbled it right down. I then put out the usual Wellness. I think the challenge now is to transition the two cats to an all-canned diet. They love their crunchies, but I think what I will do is put down another small can of Wellness in the evening and gradually decrease the dry food down to 1/4 cup per day, then see if I can get rid of it altogether. >zuzu22@webtv.net writes: >What was your cats BG number? It was 288. In June, all of his numbers were completely normal, so it seems like this came on suddenly. (We did blood work for a dental then.) > Is he overweight? No. He weighed 12 pounds in June, and 10.4 pounds when I took him in Wednesday. He's always been in the 11-12 pound range, and the vet has always considered that appropriate. By saying high protein, >your vet is really saying low-carbs. The best diet for a diabetic cat is >a canned low-carb diet and NO DRY FOOD. I'm working with a diabetic cat >right now that switched from dry to canned and just doing that brought >his BG down over 200 points. How did you make the switch? I had two dry food bowls out (two feeding locations) and pulled the big one. Wellness *canned* is a perfect food for >diabetic cats and most flavors are lower in carbs than the prescription >diets, not to mention much better quality. My vet had heard that Wellness was good -- she mentioned that before I left her office yesterday -- but didn't have any data on hand to compare it to Purina DM. (Her partner specializes in pet nutrition issues, and they do discuss cases like this, so I may ask her to get the partner's input.) Is there an online source that compares the various catfoods? >These are "as fed" numbers for carb% which are more accurate than the >guaranteed analysis numbers: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Sardines, Shrimp & Crab =A0 5.9 >Chicken & Herring =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 5.9 These are great numbers! If this is from an on-line source, can you provide the link so I can check it myself? Thanks again, Daria Timing is everything. > dg511@aol.com.nospam (DG511) >> What was your cats BG number? > It was 288. In June, all of his numbers > were completely normal, so it seems like > this came on suddenly. (We did blood > work for a dental then.) High BG can be brought on by infection (possibly related to his teeth) and stress, and at this number, I wouldn't be in a hurry to put your cat on insulin. My guess is that if you switch to a canned diet on a 12 hour schedule and completely eliminate dry food your cat's numbers will go back to normal. The sooner you do this, the better. The smartest thing you can do is get a glucose monitor, learn to use it and start checking his bg at home. You can do an intial curve yourself every 2 hours over a 12 hour period starting right before he gets his morning meal (give no food until the end of the curve). This will be much more accurate than a curve done at the vet as stress associated with being at the vet all day tends to raise bg numbers. After that you can check him for a little bit once right before he eats and then at 4 and 6 hours after that. This will give you a good idea of what his body his doing without insulin and tell you if he's reverting back to normal numbers with just diet and low stress. I highly recommend the One Touch Ultra monitor. >> Is he overweight? > No. He weighed 12 pounds in June, and > 10.4 pounds when I took him in > Wednesday. He's always been in the 11-12 > pound range, and the vet has always > considered that appropriate. Good. > >> By saying high protein, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> just doing that brought his BG down over >> 200 points. > How did you make the switch? I had two > dry food bowls out (two feeding > locations) and pulled the big one. If they like the canned, just do it. Measure out what they need in daily calories to maintain weight and feed half of that every 12 hours. In the beginning, since they are used to snacking, they may not eat everything all at once so it would be ok to leave it out longer at first. Eventually they'll eat everything in a half hour or less. >> Wellness *canned* is a perfect food for >> diabetic cats and most flavors are lower >> in carbs than the prescription diets, >> not to mention much better quality. > My vet had heard that Wellness was good > -- she mentioned that before I left her [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > source that compares the various > catfoods? This page did not work just now, but maybe it's just down for a minute: http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/jmpeerson/canfood.html >> These are "as fed" numbers for carb% >> which are more accurate than the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> Sardines, Shrimp & Crab 5.9 >> Chicken & Herring 5.9 > These are great numbers! If this is from > an on-line source, can you provide the > link so I can check it myself? No, I called the company, got the "as fed" numbers and then used the standard formula for calculating on a dry matter basis. They're accurate. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray >> dg511@aol.com.nospam (DG511) > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > you can do is get a glucose monitor, learn to use it and start checking > his bg at home. [snipped] > I highly recommend the One Touch Ultra monitor. I've heard a lot of recommendations for that one. I bought the Bayer Elite, because locally the strips were somewhat cheaper, and I find it very easy to use. LeMieux was only about 340 bg when he was diagnosed (in a crisis where he stopped eating and drinking for 48 hours, and was just hiding under the spare bed), and he stays within the normal bg range at home after a change of diet. I checked his bg twice a day before feeding for the first 3 weeks he was home, but since he was never above 120, so I wasn't giving him any insulin, I never did a curve on him. After that I reduced to testing once a week for a while, and then to twice a month. If I notice an unusual amount of water disappearing from the water dish, or more clumps than usual in his end of the litterbox (they conveniently use opposite ends) I spotcheck his bg. Frugal Feline Diabetes site (has nutrition listings for canned and dry foods) http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/jmpeerson/frugal.html http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/jmpeerson/canfood.html http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/jmpeerson/dryfood.html Home Testing of Blood Glucose for Diabetic Cats By Margie Scherk DVM, ABVP (home testing movie, Windows Media or Realplayer) http://www.veterinarypartner.com/content.plx?P=A&S=O&C=O&A=605 Harry's Home Testing Page - (good close-up photos) http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/harry/bgtest.htm Punkin's Home Testing Movie - http://tlb.best.vwh.net/bg_punkin/test_bg.html DVM the Newsmagazine of Veterinary Medicine At Home Diabetes Management - http://www.dvmnewsmagazine.com/dvm/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=13315 Blood Glucose Monitoring - http://www.dvmnewsmagazine.com/dvm/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=5336 VSPN discussion on Home Testing - http://www.vspn.org/Library/Rounds/VSPN_LC011209.htm Feline Diabetes http://www.felinediabetes.com/index.html Pet Diabetes http://www.petdiabetes.org/ Signaturejamie (jamiemck@newsguy.com) "There's a seeker born every minute." > Thanks for the responses. I took a quick look at www.felinediabetes.com and > bookmarked it. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > It was 288. In June, all of his numbers were completely normal, so it seems > like this came on suddenly. Cats are notorious for stress hyperglycemia which is often mistaken for diabetes. From the time you put your cat in the carrier until the blood is drawn, enough time elapsed for the cat's defensive mechanisms to kick in and for physiologic hyperglycemia to develop. Did your vet check your cat's urine for glucosuria and/or order a serum fructosamine or blood glycosylated hemoglobin test to rule out physiological hyperglycemia caused by stress? SF and GHb aren't affected by stress. Both tests show what the blood glucose concentrations were during the previous 2 to 4 weeks and 2to 3 months. Phil > "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com writes: >Did your vet check your cat's urine for glucosuria and/or order a serum >fructosamine or blood glycosylated hemoglobin test to rule out physiological >hyperglycemia caused by stress? She checked two urine samples, and he had substantial glucose in each. This vet is a big believer in urine tests. She also mentioned a fructosamine test, and I think that's the test she took blood for Wednesday before I left her clinic. Thursday is her day off, so I'll talk to her today. I'm inclined to believe the blood glucose test did show a true elevation, because Eddie had all the classic symptoms of diabetes -- excessive drinking, urine, lethargy -- although I agree the numbers might have been somewhat elevated due to stress. He had two other blood tests in June, with the accompanying stress, and they showed normal blood glucose, so I'm wondering how this could have come on so quickly. Daria Timing is everything. >He had two other blood tests in June, >with the accompanying stress, and they >showed normal blood glucose, so I'm >wondering how this could have come on >so quickly. It's possible he has pancreatitis, which would cause this to happen so suddenly. I worked with a cat that fit into this category, and he is now off insulin, is on a canned diet and has normal numbers. I would definitely talk to your vet about this possibility and investigate further. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray |
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