I agree with Megan.  Dry food is not an appropriate diet for a carnivore.  I
have found that what a cat eats his first 6 months of life is usually what he
will want to eat forever.  But that can be changed.  You will have to teach
your kitty to eat wet food, so to speak.  You can take his kibble, put it in a
cheese cloth, then hammer it lightly until it's in powder form.  Then add water
to it to make it moist.  Feed him this for a few days.  Then take some canned
wet food, and add some of the kibble paste to it and see if he'll eat it that
way.  You can slowly keep adding less and less of the kibble paste until he is
eating only canned.  

Good luck,
Lauren
________
See my cats:  http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecatjournal.com/articles/claws.htm

Wow.
That's it. They're on their last bag of dry.

That was the best article I've read on the subject in a long time.

Thanks for the article.  It's really good.  I've bookmarked it.  And I'm
going to take your advice about a 12 hour schedule.

- Ruby Tuesday

Dr. Piersons article is one that contains nothing but opinions,
unfounded in any peer reviewwed published clinical studies. It is
noticeable that she has never published any of here interesting
theories in any peer reviewed published journal of any kind.

Some caution here is certainly appropriate. To date the _only_ proven
advantage of feeding canned foods is relative to urine dilution. Cats
fed a canned food excrete the majority of water in the urine, cats fed
a dry food and an equal amount of free water will excrete the majority
of the water in the feces. Increasing water excretion in the urine
dilutes the urine and reduces the chances of urolith or urinary
crystal formation. It is important to bear in mind that FLUTD affects
only between 1-2% of the entire feline population. The incidence rate
for all forms of urolithiasis and crystalluria is 0.31. per Lund et
all.

In the rush to join the world of carbophobia neither Drs. Greco and
Zoran have both failed to respond to concerns with the after effects
of the hypothesis they suggest. Deleting carbohydrates means that the
energy once provided by carbohydrates must be replaced by either fat
or protein. Most of the current carbophobic diets currently available
have vastly increased levels of protein. Along with this protein comes
greatly increased levels of calcium and phosphorus. The Purina Pro
Plan Crab product discussed on another thread is a good example of
this process. The net result was to move phosphorus levels to more
than double the maximum recommended levels for an adult cat.

Renal failure in cats is a significant disease entity with an
incidence rate of 1.41 or 4.5 times as common as urolithiasis and
crystalluria combined. (Lund et al.) With a population of cats known
to be at risk for renal failure the inclusion of much increased levels
of protein and the phosphorus that comes along with it would seem to
be strongly contraindicated.  While there is no proff that elevated
levels of phosphorus _cause_ renal fialure, there are mountains of
evidence that proves feeding a cat with sub-clinical renal failure a
high phosphorus food will speed death. Unless one has a crystal ball
and knows which cat will be the one to die of renal failure it simply
makes zero sense to feed an diet that is high phosphorus. There is no
advantage to such a diet, there is nobody out proclaiming the benefit
of feeding double the KNF levels of phosphorus to a cat.

In regards to the JAVMA article it is purely _hypothesis_ and remains
totally unproven. It may well be a good hypothesis and a good idea,
but it is in no way proven nor are there any clinical trials to
support the theory to date.

Although the cat must get certain amino acids from animal origin
protein sources, the remaining EAA may come from plants. A food's
protein quality isn't determined by its source, but by its ability to
provide all essential amino acids for the animal. The proper mix of
animal and plant protein sources provides the cat all of its essential
amino acids. The proper mix of high quality animal and plant protein
sources provides the right balance of essential amino acids for the
cat without necessarily increasing risk by inclusion of excesive
levels of phosphorus in the diet.

In discussing inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) in cats, Dr. Zoran
theorizes that foods with higher carbohydrate or fiber levels may
alter intestinal bacteria numbers or species, ultimately contributing
to IBD. Dr. Zoran's comments are speculation and must not be
considered evidence that cat foods with higher carbohydrate or fiber
levels cause bacterial overgrowth and inflammatory bowel disease.
There is no data to date in any clinical study that would confirm this
theory.

Dr. Zoran claims that high carbohydrate levels in cat foods decrease
protein digestibility, but uses a reference for this that does not
support the conclusion in any way. The reference supporting this
statement referred to raw starches, not cooked.  Carbohydrates in both
dry and canned cat foods are cooked. Carbohydrate digestibility in
premium dry foods exceeds an average of 80% and often exceeds 90%.

Dr. Zoran quotes protein/fiber digestibility studies. The studies
report "apparent" protein digestibility, NOT "true" protein
digestibility. Apparent digestibility is just that - it is an
estimation with the acknowledgement that errors are inherent in the
measure of fecal protein. Fecal protein is calculated by measuring all
fecal nitrogen and converting it into estimated protein content.
However, bacterial proteins, urea nitrogen, ammonia, and other
non-protein nitrogen sources are all counted as protein (when in fact
they are not). Studies using ileal cannulated dogs and cats, with the
ability to measure ileal digestibility, have determined that fiber
generally has little impact on "true" protein digestibility. The
effect of dietary fiber on a pet food's total dry matter digestibility
depends upon the type and level of fiber, with soluble fiber having a
greater effect than insoluble fiber. Fiber effects on protein
digestibility are actually minimal.

Dr. Zoran's comments are speculation and must not be considered
evidence that higher carbohydrate levels in cat food cause bacterial
overgrowth and thus, IBD. On the contrary, one group of researchers
conducted studies in cats with intestinal bacterial overgrowth that
were consuming canned food, which is typically lower in carbohydrates
than dry. The researchers were investigating possible reasons for
excessive taurine loss in the cats. They concluded that the taurine
deficiency in these cats eating the canned food was due to an increase
in bacterial degradation of taurine, The bacterial overgrowth, cleared
with the addition of antibiotics, was certainly not due to consumption
of a higher carbohydrate food since the cats were on canned formula.
Kienzle E. Effect of carbohydrate on digestibility in the cat.

I have no personal bias toward either form of food. I dislike the
unproven current carbophobic fad that creates hysterical hyperbole as
the reason for making such a choice. Canned foods are excellent
choices, there is nothing wrong with the vast majority of them, but to
choose to feed them based on bad facts and bad science isn't
appropriate.

Brandy Wrote:

Too bad Brandy has me killfiled. She would have seen the article I
posted that makes a link between dry food and CRF and maybe learned a
little something about cause and effect.The whole point is to avoid or
minimize the risk for problems to begin with by feeding a proper canned
diet, not wait until after you've made the cat sick.

Megan

                                   

That's how  Sugar takes hers and ALL my cats growing up got it mixed like
this. We mixed it in a big pan and doled it out on a cookie sheet. It's
funny because we had one cat that would snitch things off the stove and then
go over and put it in the pan so it looked like she was eating "her" food.
But I still usually caught her ;)