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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / September 2004*sigh* Tucker's weight, again
Hello all, I went in to the vet's yesterday to get Tucker weighed. (He's had a weight problem that I've been trying to control for over two years. He's now 6.) He was previously on Hills r/d but the vet switched him to m/d last December. He's gained a ton of weight! They did a full blood panel on him, in case of an underactive thyroid, but everything came back clear. I don't understand. He gets a specific amount of food every day, no treats except catnip, he has a cat buddy, has to go up stairs to eat, etc. etc. I'm going to the vet's over lunch today to discuss food options, but it's down to either Hills r/d again or Walthams weight control. I'm so frustrated! I feel like I'm failing him as a kitty mom. Thoughts, anyone? Rene > Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Rene I think that like us genetics can be involved. How much does he weigh? Do you have a picture? > > Hello all, > > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > I think that like us genetics can be involved. How much does he weigh? Do > you have a picture? Karen, Tucker has always been a "large boned" kitty. His paws and head are huge! Here's a pic taken about a month ago: http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rj_schweitzer/detail?.dir=/6057&.dnm=b412.jpg He now weighs 21 lbs. I'm sure genetics probably have something to do with it, but I can't understand how he'd gain so much weight in such a short time (5 pounds in 8 months) I assued the vet he gets *no* other food, treats, or meals, and I premeasure all food. Frustrating. I chose Walthams Calorie Control for two reasons: 1, it has the lowest kcals per cup, even lower than r/d, and 2, he hasn't tried it before. It's worth a try. I'd hate to think how much he'd weigh if he were on a regular food! Ugh. >>> Hello all, >>> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > It's worth a try. I'd hate to think how much he'd weigh if he were on > a regular food! Ugh. Oh my. He does need some help. I hope your new routine works for him! he's very handsome. >> Tucker has always been a "large boned" kitty. His paws and head are >> huge! Here's a pic taken about a month ago: Oh my. Tucker *is* er... fluffy. Good luck on his weight. It's difficult, I know. He's a gorgeous cat. Sherry > > > Hello all, > > > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > It's worth a try. I'd hate to think how much he'd weigh if he were on > a regular food! Ugh. Wow. My cat's name is Fatass and she is svelte compared to Tucker! If you have already cut down on the amount of food and he is otherwise healthy, let him eat - he is just a fat dude. Fatass has been a blimp since 3. She is now 15, healthy as ever. Bluesman "Bluesman" <hotblues20@netscape.net> wrote > > Karen, > > Tucker has always been a "large boned" kitty. His paws and head are > > huge! Here's a pic taken about a month ago: http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rj_schweitzer/detail?.dir=/6057&.dnm=b412.jpg > > He now weighs 21 lbs. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Bluesman Nice to hear that Fatass is healthy and happy! How is your Mom? > "Bluesman" <hotblues20@netscape.net> wrote > > Karen, > > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Nice to hear that Fatass is healthy and happy! How is your Mom? Mary, Thank you kindly for asking about my mom. She passed away on Monday 8/30. She dies peacefully in her sleep in her bed after a long bout with pneumonia. Fatass is with me until she is called up to be with her. Having the big cat around is comforting as my mother loved her a great deal, and Fatass was a source of calming and companionship for my mom for the past 10 years. Thanks, Bluesman "Bluesman" <hotblues20@netscape.net> wrote> > > > Nice to hear that Fatass is healthy and happy! How is your Mom? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 8/30. She dies peacefully in her sleep in her bed after a long bout > with pneumonia. Bluesman, I am so sorry to hear that you lost your mother. It is good to know that she had a peaceful passing. I lost my mother a few years ago, and it is indescribable. It has always been clear how much you loved her--you showed it here and I have no doubt you showed it to her too. In some ways you may grow to feel she has never really left you--I can still feel my own mother close to me, inside. Strangely, it was different when my Dad died. > Fatass is with me until she is called up to be with her. Having the > big cat around is comforting as my mother loved her a great deal, and > Fatass was a source of calming and companionship for my mom for the > past 10 years. Lucky Fatass, lucky you! Have you posted photos of her yet? I want to see her! ><hotblues20@netscape.net> wrote> > >> > Nice to hear that Fatass is healthy and happy! How is your Mom? [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> Fatass was a source of calming and companionship for my mom for the >> past 10 years. Sorry to piggyback. Bluesman, I am also very sorry to hear about your mom. She would be happy to know Fatass is doing so well and with you. You must keep us updated on F.A. I bet he really blossoms under your care. Poor baby. I'm sure he misses his mom, too. Sherry >I'm going to the vet's over lunch today to discuss food options, but >it's down to either Hills r/d again or Walthams weight control. I'm so >frustrated! I feel like I'm failing him as a kitty mom. Thoughts, Hills also has a weight control diet called w/d. -mhd >>I'm going to the vet's over lunch today to discuss food options, but >>it's down to either Hills r/d again or Walthams weight control. I'm so [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > -mhd just like any other living being, if you burn less calories in a day than you consume, you gain weight. so, he basically needs more exercise or less calories or better yet, both. i have the same problem, a 20lb cat who should probably weigh about 15, and 2 other cats that are fine. very difficult to control diet of one cat, so we run him around with the laser pointer often ... he literally shakes the house (old house :)). i tried to get him to run on the treadmill with me, but he found that even less unrealistic than i did :). we're trying to leash train him as well, but he's a real scardy cat when it comes to outside which really we don't want to change since he doesn't try to escape out the door right now. > >>I'm going to the vet's over lunch today to discuss food options, but > >>it's down to either Hills r/d again or Walthams weight control. I'm so [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > he's a real scardy cat when it comes to outside which really we don't want > to change since he doesn't try to escape out the door right now. You're right Rob. I had switched to the Hills m/d because he wasn't losing on the r/d (and driving me nuts with his constant begging). Guess that food does the opposite of what it's supposed to for him. I had a chat with the vet's office today, and based on the printouts I made from the companies' web sites, chose the Walthams Calorie Control. I think what I need to do is play with him in a room, separately. The other cat is crazy when it comes to playtime, so I think Tucker is intimidated. He is already leash trained, so I took him outside tonight for a little fresh air. I do have a laser pointer, but haven't tried it on him in a while. Good idea. Also have one of those r/c mice, but I think *I* enjoy it more than the cats. :) r/d has less calories than w/d. S. > >I'm going to the vet's over lunch today to discuss food options, but > >it's down to either Hills r/d again or Walthams weight control. I'm so [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > -mhd >r/d has less calories than w/d. Sorry I meant m/d -mhd yes, m/d is like the "atkins diet" for cats. i'd like to hear if anyone has tried m/d and had it work as far as losing weight. i started my cat on it, but never really stuck to it (mainly because my vet charged $1.50 per can!). S. > >r/d has less calories than w/d. > > Sorry I meant m/d > > -mhd Wish I could give a positive recommendation for the m/d, but I can't, since Tucker gained weight on it. Wow, $1.50 per can is a lot more than I paid (though the canned was used like a "treat" so I didn't use much). Think I paid $1 per can. > yes, m/d is like the "atkins diet" for cats. i'd like to hear if anyone has > tried m/d and had it work as far as losing weight. i started my cat on it, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > > > -mhd >Wish I could give a positive recommendation for the m/d, but I can't, >since Tucker gained weight on it. Wow, $1.50 per can is a lot more >than I paid (though the canned was used like a "treat" so I didn't use >much). Think I paid $1 per can. You can not use an Atkins type diet as a treat or else it simply fails to do what it is supposed to do. From the words of Steve Crane regarding m/d (Steve works for Hills as Veterinary consultant) "So yes the diet works, but *only* if pet owners follow directions. In testing, all cats became metabolically ketogenic which is the objective of such a low carb diet. Once the state of metabolic ketosis is reached, that is the trigger for changing metabolism." -mhd > >Wish I could give a positive recommendation for the m/d, but I can't, > >since Tucker gained weight on it. Wow, $1.50 per can is a lot more [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > -mhd I *did* follow directions. I used m/d dry as the main diet with a teaspoon of the m/d canned as a "treat." I say treat because he used to get more canned before he went on a diet, so I didn't want to go completely from mostly canned to no canned. As I said before, he did *not* receive any other treats or people food. This diet did not work for Tucker. I don't know why, but if he gained that much weight in that time period, it's clear it wasn't because I wasn't "following directions." Rene >> You can not use an Atkins type diet as a treat or else it simply fails >> to do what it is supposed to do. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >to get more canned before he went on a diet, so I didn't want to go >completely from mostly canned to no canned. Perhaps your cat was ingesting too many calories? (...) > Perhaps your cat was ingesting too many calories? Big Bingo Bonus! It's the only way any animal puts on excess weight! Steve. >From: news@stevethepsycho.co.uk (Steve G) >Date: 9/6/04 12:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Steve. Steve, I thought you were above taking comments out of context! I was specifically referring to the extra calories in Feline m/d and if you don't strictly follow feeding guidelines, weight GAIN is quite likely. (...) > Steve, I thought you were above taking comments out of context! I was > specifically referring to the extra calories in Feline m/d and if you don't > strictly follow feeding guidelines, weight GAIN is quite likely. No conflict this time, Mr G. I was agreeing with you! (I did wonder if the Bingo Bonus Business might look a bit snide after I posted it - wasn't meant that way though, 'onest). Steve. >From: news@stevethepsycho.co.uk (Steve G) >Date: 9/7/04 4:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Steve. Fair enough! It didn't hurt me to clairify things, though! ;) >From: rschweitzer@kalmbach.com (Rene) >Wish I could give a positive recommendation for the m/d, but I can't, >since Tucker gained weight on it. Wow, $1.50 per can is a lot more >than I paid (though the canned was used like a "treat" so I didn't use >much). Think I paid $1 per can. Rene, if you didn't use it as intended, why would you give it anything other than a "positive" recommendation? Sounds like "user error" in your case? A friend of mine is a vet and many of his clients have had good success with m/d. Since m/d is very calorically dense, unless you stictly follow feeding guidelines it's quite possible a cat will gain weight. You're looking to achieve a metabolism shift with m/d. > Rene, if you didn't use it as intended, why would you give it anything other > than a "positive" recommendation? Sounds like "user error" in your case? A > friend of mine is a vet and many of his clients have had good success with m/d. > Since m/d is very calorically dense, unless you stictly follow feeding > guidelines it's quite possible a cat will gain weight. You're looking to > achieve a metabolism shift with m/d. I learned from Megan that the small amount I was giving (3/4 cup per day) was TWICE as many calories as he needed, hence the huge weight gain. I had no idea it had so many calories; my vet suggested the change and when I asked if 3/4 cup was appropriate, they said yes, and read the bag. (Actually, the bag suggested I give *more* than that.) I fault my vet for this, and this is why I'm going ahead, against their suggestions, and feeding canned only. Live and learn, I guess. > I learned from Megan that the small amount I was giving (3/4 cup per > day) was TWICE as many calories as he needed, hence the huge weight [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > fault my vet for this, and this is why I'm going ahead, against their > suggestions, and feeding canned only. Live and learn, I guess. I see the problem immediately - the right amount is 3/8 of a cup, not 3/4 of a cup. It would appear you were feeding twice as much as appropriate. One of the biggest problems with this diet is pet owner compliance. I speak from practical experience. About six months before m/d was released I had my own cat on it. Normal (which she is not of course) successfully lost 2.5 pounds in a month, then I left for a 2 week business trip and turned over the feeding to my wife. On returning two weeks later she had gained a full pound. In checking I discovered my wife had actually been feeding about 1/2 cup instead of the 3/8 cup required. > Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Rene I used to let Holly free feed on dry cat food. I thought it was successful because her health always seemed good. Then, over the course of a year or so, I noticed that she looked a little heavier. Sure enough, she had gained a pound, and that is a substantial percentage of a cat's weight. It was about that same time that I changed to Wellness and Felidae canned. Holly's weight dropped back to her optimal level. I was amazed, because I didn't change food for weight-reduction reasons. I changed cat food because I had recently adopted Duffy (who clearly needed better nutrition than what he had been receiving), and I had also started to read recommendations for canned food instead of dry food. She and Duffy are both thriving on the diet, have luxurious coats, and display lots of energy. In both cases, their weight has now remained completely stable at what I (and the vet) consider their optimal weights. Moreover, neither cat seems hungry on this diet. I stick to a 12-hour feeding schedule, or as close to that as possible. Each cat gets 1/3 can twice per day (sizes are 5.5 oz. cans of Wellness or 6.0 oz. cans of Felidae). I open one can for one meal and use 2/3 of it, divided between the two cats; then repeat the process for the next meal. This will leave 1/3 can from two separate cans for one meal the following day. I microwave the portions that have been refrigerated for a short time to gently warm it. (Note: I am feeding twice a day, not three times) This doesn't cost as much extra as I expected because my furbabies don't eat as much as when I used dry food (and free feeding). Nevertheless, they always seem satisfied. Duffy weighs a little more than 8 pounds, and Holly weighs 9 pounds. I don't know how much your cat weighs, but you would obviously need to adjust the quantity commensurate with his weight. I have noticed that I feed fewer calories than the 30 calories per pound recommendations that I have read on some sites. It is also less than the 1 can per day that Wellness says is typical for an 8 to 10 pound adult cat. Other friends have noticed the same thing with their cats. This may be because indoor cats do not need as many calories as outdoor cats - but, for whatever reason, I think the "recommended" caloric intake is likely to lead to fat cats. For example, one 5.5 oz. can of Wellness chicken formula has 181 calories. This means that my cats are getting between 13 and 14 calories per pound per day, and their weight has remained constant on this diet. Other types of Wellness will vary slightly, but this gives a reasonable approximation. MaryL (take out the litter to reply) Photos of Duffy and Holly: >'o'< http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly) http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in") > > Hello all, > > [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly) > http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in") My vet commented one day that cat food mfgs are in business to sell cat food. The more you feed the cat the more they sell. They tend to be very generous with their label recommendations. W > I went in to the vet's yesterday to get Tucker weighed. (He's had a > weight problem that I've been trying to control for over two years. > He's now 6.) He was previously on Hills r/d but the vet switched him > to m/d last December. Have you tried Purina Pro Plan? It's the top of their food chain product. Only certain pet stores and vets sell it. You'll see Purina One in supermarkets, but not Purina Pro Plan. I don't know why since the price is really not that outrageous per can. Iams, Nutramax, Eukanuba, or even Pro Plan is not much more per can than Fancy Feast. wet food ---> http://www.proplan.com/product_detail.aspx?pid=132 dry food ---> http://www.proplan.com/product_detail.aspx?pid=118 >Have you tried Purina Pro Plan? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >wet food ---> http://www.proplan.com/product_detail.aspx?pid=132 >dry food ---> http://www.proplan.com/product_detail.aspx?pid=118 They got to be kidding??? Daily Feeding Guide For weight maintenance, feed 1 can per 2-1/2 lbs. body weight daily. For overweight cats, feed 1 can per 3 lbs. body weight daily. -mhd >>Have you tried Purina Pro Plan? >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > -mhd so..... my 20 lb cat would get over 6 cans a day, and the two around 10 lbs get another 4 cans between them. 10 cans a day times what, a buck a can? $70/week or $3640/year (based on no weight loss in the fat cat, otherwise reduce that by a couple hundred). It'd be cheaper to feed them Boars Head turkey breast and salmon! I've always wondered how the cat food manufacturers come up with these feeding guides. It is not realistic at all! According to these "guidelines" my 18 lb. cat would get 6 3oz cans a day and supposedly lose weight. My cat would love to get 6 cans a day! Granted, the smart person would feed his/her cat based on the cat and not these guidelines, but the problem is, people read these guidelines and will follow them. That's why there's so many fat cats out there. S. > >Have you tried Purina Pro Plan? > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > -mhd >> >wet food ---> http://www.proplan.com/product_detail.aspx?pid=132 > >dry food ---> http://www.proplan.com/product_detail.aspx?pid=118 [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > -mhd So Buddha, at 13 pounds, would get four cans per day. No way! She gets a single 3-oz can split into two portions and a cup of dry. They're nuts. In the fine newsgroup "rec.pets.cats.health+behav", Moe Hair <mohair@nospam.com> artfully composed this message within <news:Ih1Yc.787$Es2.1302666@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> on 28 Aug 2004: > Have you tried Purina Pro Plan? > > It's the top of their food chain product. Only certain pet > stores and vets sell it. You'll see Purina One in supermarkets, > but not Purina Pro Plan. I don't know why since the price is > really not that outrageous per can. Mine eats Pro Plan canned, but I wouldn't consider it low-priced. Here I get a case of 3 oz cans for a bit over $15, so that is close to .65 per can. Since it isn't 5.5 oz, it is only a single meal for my cat so it still comes close to the $1.50 per 5.5 or 6 oz can of prescription food, which I'd cut in half per meal.  SignatureCheryl |
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