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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / August 2003

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Addiction, Symbiosis, Denial

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The Puppy Wizard - 15 Aug 2003 17:20 GMT
HOWEDY People,

The Puppy Wizard has been teaching abHOWET
the nature of stress and it's relationship to behavior
problems and DIS-EASE for many years, but only
for five years to the Whole Wild World, thanks to
the INFORMATION SUPER HIGHWAY, courteHOWESY
of Al Gore.

THANKS, AL!

The recent research at Purdue and UofOH verifying
The Puppy Wizard's HOWEtrageHOWES claims,
leaves the CRUMBS fall where they lay.

The Puppy Wizard is not interested in your COMPLAINTS,
only in your REHABILITATION... That's gonna happen WON
way, or the other... EITHER through EDUCATION or through CRIMINAL
PROSECUTION or TREATMENT as A MENTAL
ILLNESS, like any other ADDICTION.

HOWER DOG LOVERS and PARENTS are ADDICTED
TO PUNISHMENT, cause THAT SATISFIES your fragile
defective ego's and compensates for your inferiority
complexes and weak, selfish, fearful, minds.

You gather here and wring hands as you WATCH
YOUR DOGS KATS and KIDS DYING ON YOU,
and CONTINUE to SHOCK CHOKE CONFINE
PUNISH and KILL your best dogs and kats and do
likeWIZE to your children.

The DOG RESEARCH points to the SAME SAME
SAME SAME conditions under which J.Q. Pubic
raises HOWER kids, and reap the same same
same same, conclusions.

YOU'RE KILLIN YOUR OWN.

You can CHANGE this miserable state of affairs, or
you can go DHOWEN with the ship, and be CANNONIZED
as the Saint's Of DISTRESS, DIS-EASE, and DEATH,
in The Puppy Wizard's Archives, along with ed w of PET
LOSS dot CON and professor SCRUFF SHAKE of the
department of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at UofWI and his
ilk, for the next generations to study and learn abHOWET.

The choice is entirely yours, PET LOVERS and PARENTS.

The Puppy Wizard. <} ; ~ )   >

Can you tell the TRUTH from a LIE?:

         > > > Jerome Bigge writes:
         > > > I do know that hitting, hurting
         > > > your dog will often make the
         > > > dog either aggressive or a fear
         > > > biter, neither of which we want to do.

And then we got, matty! Follow his discussion!
This is what's called, a liar and dog abuser:

         > > And neither does anyone else,
         > > Jerome.  No matter
         > > what Jerry Howe states.

"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This I've Suggested It To Quite
A Few Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY
TIME The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer,
33 Years Experience.

You DO remember KILLFILING MARILYN for her coment above
regarding her success with The Puppy Wizard's Surrogate Toy
Separation Anxiety / Bed Time Calming Technique (STSA/BTCT)?

Perhaps you likeWIZE recall a pediatrician, Dr. Z, who commented
that his bed time calming technique was quite similar?

         > > You're scary Marilyn.

         > > Marilyn must be quite a disturbed
         > > individual.  I feel very sorry for her
         > > and her family.

"His Amazing Progress Almost Makes Me Cry.
Your Method Takes Positive Training To The
Next Level And Should Really Be Used By All
Trainers Who Call Themselves Trainers. Thank
You For Helping Me Save His Life," Kay Pierce,
Professional Trainer, 30 Years Experience.

         > > BUT, giving you the benefit of the
         > > doubt, please provide a quote (an
         > > original quote, not from one of Jerry
         > > Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
         > > shows a regular poster promoting or
         > > using an abusive form of training.

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

         > > --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???

"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN
SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer
is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER?

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And  Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few  Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."

You think HURTIN dogs and CRINGING
is COURTEOUS?

"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What  does this mean?"

Means the author is a dog abuser of the worst magnitude.

"When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first time, spray
one squirt
directly into the dog's mouth and walk away. The dog won't be too
thrilled
with this but just ignore him and continue your normal behavior."

You think HURTING your dog is NORMAL BEHAVIOR?

 --Mike Dufort
   author of the zero selling book
   "Courteous Canines"

You think HOWER pal mikey is playin with a full deck?

Yeah. When I preload my dog's mouth with bitter apple,
suppose I don't get used to being stupid and cruel, mikey?

Then HOWE do I train my dog if I can't HURT it?

"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed
Her Opposite Foot With My Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her,
Smartly Growled Into Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And Neatly
Nipped Her
Ear," sionnach.

Oh, THANKS, sinofabitch...

 And from terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
 "Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
 something you twisted out of context,
 because you are full of bizarro manure."

          "Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a
          helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.
          Tougher, less tractable dogs may require
          you to progress to striking them more
          sharply," lying frosty dahl, ethical breeder,
          expert trainer.

You think a EXXXPERT trainer got to BEAT
a HUNTIN dog to MAKE IT HUNT?

       "Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
       Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
       With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
       discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies HURT all
their lives like HOWE HOWER dog lovers PREFER to
HURT THEIR DOGS?

"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."

The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.

We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...

            terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
           "Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
           things is something you twisted out of
           context, because you are full of bizarro
           manure."

Sez on our FAQ'S pages at K9 Web you should knee the dog in the
chest, step
on its toes, throw him down by his ears and climb all over it like
a raped
ape growling into his throat and bite IT on his ears, or leash pop
it on a
pronged spiked pinch choke collar or pop him in the snout with the
heel of
your palm.

"BethF" <dawg@alaska.com> wrote in message
news:ugc7us32ki5fb9@corp.supernews.com...

> "Frank" <flmarcher@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:d2f1624e.0206101912.2980eb03@posting.google.com...
> > dfrntdrums@aol.comMURK-OFF (Leah) wrote in message
news:<20020610173326.01953.00000597@mb-fx.aol.com>...
> > > >"brianev" brianev@attbi.com wrote:
> > > > I ENJOYED reading your book, and
> > > > AGREED with what you had to say.
> > > > I find it sick to hear what people
> > > > do with their dogs.
:
> > > Keep in mind that everything he says that
> > > the regular posters of this ng do to their
> > > dogs are lies.
:
> > > All of it.  Every last bit.
:
> > All of it?
:
> > Ear pinching?
:
> > Shock collars?
:
> > Spiked chokers?
:
> > The regulars lie more in their denials than
> > Howe does in his accusing of them.
:
> Uh, Frank?  Who do you see denying anything?
> Its quite interesting that a newbie like yourself
> would see denials when everyone has Jerry
> killfiled and therefore don't even read his posts,
> let alone respond to them.

"Rocky" <2dogs@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

         > Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

         > > When you compare using sound and
         > > praise to solve a problem with using
         > > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
         > >  how can you criticize the use of sound?

         > There's nothing more to be said, then.
         > You've made up your mind.

         > But you've impressed me by mentioning
         > that you're a professor with 30 years of
         > experience.

         >  So, can you cite some examples of
         > people recommending "shock collars,
         > hanging, and punishment"?

BWWWAWHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

         > --
         > --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.

You think matty's playin with a full
goddamned deck?

matty's NOT a liar and dog abuser.

Isn't that true, Marilyn?

Of course not, but THIS IS:

"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
professora gingold.

"Marshall Dermer" <dermer@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:a3h5qn$mra$1@uwm.edu...

         > >Di,

         > I don't believe you mentioned a particular
         > kind of training. If you are interested in
         > training retrieval behavior than do
         > consider our own Amy Dahl's:

         > The 10-Minute Retriever : How to Make a
         > Well-Mannered,  Obedient and
         > Enthusiastic Gun Dog in 10 Minutes a
         > Day by John I. Dahl, Amy Dahl

You failed to mention your pals the dahls are
proven liars and dog abusers, professor "SCRUFF SHAKE:"

          "I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A
          Dog I Do Not Believe There Is A Single
          Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A
          Dog Is Anything But Destructive,"

LUCKY thing CHIN CHUCK absolutely don't
mean slap the goddamned dog, we'd look like
a conspiracy of LIARS and DOG abusers if
CHIN CHUCK DID mean SLAP the dog.

"I don't see why anyone would want to choke or
beat a dog, or how any trainer could possibly get
a good working dog by making them unhapper,
fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying frosty dahl.

DOES THAT SOUND LIKE THE TRUTH?

         > just $17.95 at Amazon.com.

         > (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
         > few regulars here who are either ill-
         > tempered, ill-mannered, or just plain ill.)
         > --Marshall

Or HOWE about HOWER just plain CRUEL
STUPID and ABUSIVE DOG ABUSERS,
professor SCRUFF SHAKE?

amy lying frosty dahl continues:

          "On the other extreme, the really hard dogs
          we have trained require much more
          frequent and heavy application of pressure
         (PAIN j.h.) to get the job done,

         This is continued resistance to your
         increasing authority, and the job is
         not done until it is  overcome

         Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper
         wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher,
         less tractable dogs may require you to
         progress to striking them more sharply"

BUT NOBODY DOES THAT HERE...

        "Try pinching the ear between the metal
        casing and the collar,  even the buckle on
        the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will
       give in but will squeal, thrash around, and
       direct their efforts to escaping the ear pinch"

OR ATTACKING HIS ABUSER.

          "You can press the dog's ear with a
          shotshell instead of your thumb even
          get a studded collar and pinch the ear
         against that Make the dog's need to stop
         the pinching so urgent that resisting your
         will fades in importance.

          CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever
          Ready Right Hand, As it catches on, try
          using the stick and no ear pinch.

         When the dog is digging out to beat the
         stick and seems totally reliable without
         any ear pinch, you are finished

          This is continued resistance to your
          increasing authority, and the job is
          not done until it is overcome"

         If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly
         under the chin, say "No! Hold!"

          (stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps
          because the ear is getting tender, or the
          dog has decided it isn't worth it)" lying
          frosty dahl.

          "Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
           professora gingold.

From: Marshall Dermer (dermer@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
In article <38CC0C43.94E2DDD1@earthlink.net>
rhurwitz@earthlink.net writes:

         >> -snip headers etc.

         >> Yes. you're right, I really should find
         >> the book.. they don't have these books
         >> in the local pet stores I frequent, where
         >> do you find Koehler?

         > I got a nice large print copy from
         > Amazon.com

         >Richard

           Please try Powell's Books in Portland
           Oregon. Their URL is:

                             http://www.powells.com/

           Unlike Amazon.com, Powell's keeps both
           new and used books on its shelves. You
           can order books via e-email.

                              Koehler Method Of Dog
                              Training
                              by Koehler, W R
                              Published by HOWELL BOOK
                              HOUSE (0876056575,

========================================================

Here's some quotes and some methods right
outta your koehler book professor "SCRUFF SHAKE and scream "NO!"
into its
face for 5
seconds:"

"The Koehler Method of Dog Training (1962).  New York:
          Howell Book Book House(p. 52-53)."

          Hanging

"First, the trainer makes certain that the collar
and leash are more than adequate for any jerk
or strain that the dog's most frantic actions could cause.  Then
he starts
to work the dog deliberately and fairly to the point where the dog
makes his
grab.

Before the teeth have reached their target,
the dog, weight permitting, is jerked from
the ground.

As in coping with some of the afore-mentioned problems the dog is
suspended
in mid-air.

          However, to let the biting dog recover
          his footing while he still had the strength
          to renew the attack would be cruelty.

         The only justifiable course is to hold him
         suspended until he has neither the strength
         nor inclination to renew the fight.

         When finally it is obvious that he is
         physically incapable of expressing his
         resentment and is lowered to the ground,
        he will probably stagger loop-legged for a
        few steps, vomit once or twice, and roll
        over on his side.

        The sight of a dog lying, thick-tongued,
        on his side, is not pleasant, but do not
        let it alarm you

          THE REAL "HOOD"

          "If your dog is a real "hood" who would
          regard the foregoing types of protest as
         "kid stuff" and would express his
         resentment of your efforts by biting,
         your problem is difficult -- and pressing.

          "Professional trainers often get these
          extreme problems. Nearly always the
          "protest biter" is the handiwork of a
          person who, by avoiding situations that
          the dog might resent, has nurtured the
          seeds of rebellion and then  cultivated
         the resultant growth with under correction.

          When these people reap their inevitable
          and oftentimes painful harvest, they are
          ready to avail themselves of "the cruel
          trainer" whose advice they may have
          once rejected because it was incompatible
          with the sugary droolings of mealy-
         mouthed columnists, breed-ring biddies,
         and dog psychologists who, by the
         broken skins and broken hearts their
        misinformation causes, can be proven guilty
        of the greatest act of cruelty to animals
        since the dawn of time.

        "With more genuine compassion for the
        biting dog than would ever be demonstrated
        by those who are "too kind" to make a
        correction and certainly with more disregard
        for his safety, the professional trainer
        morally feels obligated to perform a "major
        operation."

         "Since we are presently concerned with
         the dog that bites in resentment of the
         demands of training, we will set our
         example in that situation.  (In a later
         chapter we will deal with the with the
         much easier problem of the dog that
         bites someone other than his master."

Are we havin FUN yet?

Got a lite, professor SCRUFF SHAKE?

The Puppy Wizard. <} : ~  )
Ed Williams - 15 Aug 2003 17:36 GMT
> HOWEDY People,
>
[quoted text clipped - 508 lines]
>
> The Puppy Wizard. <} : ~  )   >
Per your request ahole, this helpful reminder email is to alert you to
an error you made in this post to this newsgroup.
The URL you posted is incorrect. The correct URL is:
http://www.petloss.com

BTW, It has been said:

The symptom is neology: in particular, the combining of syllables of
familiar words (like his name) for idiosyncratic psychological reasons.
Jerry uses neologisms *exactly* like
this and in a concentrated fashion you're unlikely to notice anywhere
else on Usenet (possibly because most mentally ill eventually get help).

HOWEDY, abHOWETS (about), HOWER (our), HOWEsbreak, HOWET (out), etc.

And this neology, when combined with other symptoms, is of great
concern.  You yourself mention his sociopathic babbling; lets not also
forget his expansive moods [1], irritability, stereotypy [2], negativism
[3], irrelevant answers [4], loosening of association [5]...really, the
symptoms go on forever.

The seriousness of Jerry's mental illness is difficult to fathom in an
online environment.  Just because somebody blindly rants without
diplomacy, compassion, logic or understanding doesn't mean they'll
automatically run rampage with a big axe.  We just don't know.  But then
his rambling in this (and other) threads about a sick society and how
"they are to blame" suggests a severe personality disorder strongly
affected by paranoia (possibly schizophrenia); this incidentally fits in
with his multiple personalities on Usenet (he literally converses with
himself using other identities).  In a way, it's possibly a good thing
that he is isolated (clearly at all hours) with his computer and doesn't
have much to do in the world at large.

Denial of his own condition clearly prevents him from seeking help and
so he can't be blamed personally for that.  The real shame is that
somebody out there can't help him, or have a word with his Doctor.
Nobody should have to suffer like Jerry.

At least Usenet users have an antidote (a killfile).  Jerry simply has
nobody.

[1] Expression without restraint, frequently with an overestimation of
one's significance or importance and without any compassion for others.
[2] Repetitive fixed pattern of speech.
[3] Motiveless resistance to all attempts to follow instructions,
request or directions.
[4] Answer that is not in harmony with question asked (appears to ignore
or not attend to question).
[5] Ideas shift from one subject to another in a completely unrelated
(often incoherent) way.

Take Care Jerry.
Go and see your Doctor eh?
Old77 - 15 Aug 2003 19:21 GMT
PLEASE quit cross posting

--
Mark K.
aka Old77
1977 Ranger
Sanger,Ca

> > HOWEDY People,
> >
[quoted text clipped - 561 lines]
> Take Care Jerry.
> Go and see your Doctor eh?
Julia Altshuler - 15 Aug 2003 23:00 GMT
This message is posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior (r.p.d.b.) regularly and
occasionally to other newsgroups including alt.animals.dog,
rec.pets.dogs.rescue, alt.pets.dog, and rec.pets.dogs.misc.  These are
unmoderated groups meaning that no one checks the messages to make sure they're
on-topic, civil or sensible before they go through.  

The purpose of this occasional posting is to give information about the
newsgroup so that discussion about the newsgroup itself is cut down and
discussion about dogs increases.  

Like so many usenet groups, this group has people who post annoyingly
and constantly, people who post angry and abusive messages, people who
post to irritate others.  It's up to individuals to decide which posters
bother them.  

Here are some guidelines that many people follow to make this newsgroup
pleasant and informative:

1.  Use your killfile.  A killfile (or filter) makes invisible posts by
any particular person or with any particular words in the subject line.
The posts are still there, but they don't show up on the screen of the
person using the killfile.  Look at
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/killfilefaq.htm for instructions.  Or
try:  http://www.graphixmad.plus.com/OE_FAQ_newsgroups.html.


2.  Don't make more noise.  The only thing more annoying than a troll is
an otherwise rational person arguing with or about a troll.  That's
known as feeding the trolls.  Please don't feed the trolls.  It really
is insane to attempt rational discussion with the insane.  

3.  Want to exercise your right to free speech and argue about or with
trolls anyway?  Put "ninnyboy" in the subject line.  That way the people
who want to join the fracas can, and those who don't can opt out by
killfiling "ninnyboy."  If you don't do this, expect to be killfiled
yourself.  [Jerry], with the brackets is also a recognized signal.

4.  Figured out that arguing with trolls is useless but still want to
talk about trolls by referring to them in the third person?  Put
"ninnyboy" in the subject line then too.  That subject is boring too.    

5.  Trim quoted posts to include only the part you're responding to.
Quoting an entire long post in order to respond to only a small piece of
it is annoying.  Again, if you don't do this, expect to be killfiled.  

6.  Understand Candace.  Candace is an automatic program that answers
troll posts automatically, repetititively and relentlessly.  Most of us
find these posts boring after a short while and killfile it too.  That's
O.K.  You can't hurt its feelings.  

7.  Show no fear.  Have a question or need to admit that you've made
errors in dog training in the past?  This is still a good place to come
for (often contradictory) advice.  Use your own judgment to decide what
advice to follow and what not to.  No harm can come to you even if
people vehemently disagree, call you names or repost your old messages.  

8.  Label off-topic threads as "OT."  A label helps people decide what
to read and what not to.  

9.  Check the F.A.Q. for answers to frequent non-complicated questions.  

10.  Don't post pictures.  This is not a binary newsgroup.  That's plain
text only, no HTML, no attachments.  If you'd like, post a pointer to a
website with pictures on it.

11.  Don't crosspost.  It's bad enough when someone posts something dog
related to all the groups having to do with dogs.  It's worse when
totally unrelated groups get tossed in the mix.  Feel like you
absolutely have to jump in on something that's been crossposted to unrelated
groups?  Erase the extraneous ones when you answer.
The Puppy Wizard - 16 Aug 2003 03:21 GMT
HOWEDY People,

The Puppy Wizard has been teaching abHOWET
the nature of stress and it's relationship to behavior
problems and DIS-EASE for many years, but only
for five years to the Whole Wild World, thanks to
the INFORMATION SUPER HIGHWAY, courteHOWESY
of Al Gore.

THANKS, AL!

The recent research at Purdue and UofOH verifying
The Puppy Wizard's HOWEtrageHOWES claims,
leaves the CRUMBS fall where they lay.

The Puppy Wizard is not interested in your COMPLAINTS,
only in your REHABILITATION... That's gonna happen WON
way, or the other... EITHER through EDUCATION or through CRIMINAL
PROSECUTION or TREATMENT as A MENTAL
ILLNESS, like any other ADDICTION.

HOWER DOG LOVERS and PARENTS are ADDICTED
TO PUNISHMENT, cause THAT SATISFIES your fragile
defective ego's and compensates for your inferiority
complexes and weak, selfish, fearful, minds.

You gather here and wring hands as you WATCH
YOUR DOGS KATS and KIDS DYING ON YOU,
and CONTINUE to SHOCK CHOKE CONFINE
PUNISH and KILL your best dogs and kats and do
likeWIZE to your children.

The DOG RESEARCH points to the SAME SAME
SAME SAME conditions under which J.Q. Pubic
raises HOWER kids, and reap the same same
same same, conclusions.

YOU'RE KILLIN YOUR OWN.

You can CHANGE this miserable state of affairs, or
you can go DHOWEN with the ship, and be CANNONIZED
as the Saint's Of DISTRESS, DIS-EASE, and DEATH,
in The Puppy Wizard's Archives, along with ed w of PET
LOSS dot CON and professor SCRUFF SHAKE of the
department of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at UofWI and his
ilk, for the next generations to study and learn abHOWET.

The choice is entirely yours, PET LOVERS and PARENTS.

The Puppy Wizard. <} ; ~ )   >

Can you tell the TRUTH from a LIE?:

         > > > Jerome Bigge writes:
         > > > I do know that hitting, hurting
         > > > your dog will often make the
         > > > dog either aggressive or a fear
         > > > biter, neither of which we want to do.

And then we got, matty! Follow his discussion!
This is what's called, a liar and dog abuser:

         > > And neither does anyone else,
         > > Jerome.  No matter
         > > what Jerry Howe states.

"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This I've Suggested It To Quite
A Few Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY
TIME The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer,
33 Years Experience.

You DO remember KILLFILING MARILYN for her coment above
regarding her success with The Puppy Wizard's Surrogate Toy
Separation Anxiety / Bed Time Calming Technique (STSA/BTCT)?

Perhaps you likeWIZE recall a pediatrician, Dr. Z, who commented
that his bed time calming technique was quite similar?

         > > You're scary Marilyn.

         > > Marilyn must be quite a disturbed
         > > individual.  I feel very sorry for her
         > > and her family.

"His Amazing Progress Almost Makes Me Cry.
Your Method Takes Positive Training To The
Next Level And Should Really Be Used By All
Trainers Who Call Themselves Trainers. Thank
You For Helping Me Save His Life," Kay Pierce,
Professional Trainer, 30 Years Experience.

         > > BUT, giving you the benefit of the
         > > doubt, please provide a quote (an
         > > original quote, not from one of Jerry
         > > Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
         > > shows a regular poster promoting or
         > > using an abusive form of training.

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

         > > --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???

"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN
SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer
is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER?

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And  Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few  Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."

You think HURTIN dogs and CRINGING
is COURTEOUS?

"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What  does this mean?"

Means the author is a dog abuser of the worst magnitude.

"When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first time, spray
one squirt
directly into the dog's mouth and walk away. The dog won't be too
thrilled
with this but just ignore him and continue your normal behavior."

You think HURTING your dog is NORMAL BEHAVIOR?

 --Mike Dufort
   author of the zero selling book
   "Courteous Canines"

You think HOWER pal mikey is playin with a full deck?

Yeah. When I preload my dog's mouth with bitter apple,
suppose I don't get used to being stupid and cruel, mikey?

Then HOWE do I train my dog if I can't HURT it?

"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed
Her Opposite Foot With My Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her,
Smartly Growled Into Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And Neatly
Nipped Her
Ear," sionnach.

Oh, THANKS, sinofabitch...

 And from terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
 "Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
 something you twisted out of context,
 because you are full of bizarro manure."

          "Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a
          helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.
          Tougher, less tractable dogs may require
          you to progress to striking them more
          sharply," lying frosty dahl, ethical breeder,
          expert trainer.

You think a EXXXPERT trainer got to BEAT
a HUNTIN dog to MAKE IT HUNT?

       "Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
       Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
       With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
       discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies HURT all
their lives like HOWE HOWER dog lovers PREFER to
HURT THEIR DOGS?

"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."

The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.

We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...

            terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
           "Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
           things is something you twisted out of
           context, because you are full of bizarro
           manure."

Sez on our FAQ'S pages at K9 Web you should knee the dog in the
chest, step
on its toes, throw him down by his ears and climb all over it like
a raped
ape growling into his throat and bite IT on his ears, or leash pop
it on a
pronged spiked pinch choke collar or pop him in the snout with the
heel of
your palm.

> > dfrntdrums@aol.comMURK-OFF (Leah) wrote in message
news:<20020610173326.01953.00000597@mb-fx.aol.com>...
> > > >"brianev" brianev@attbi.com wrote:
> > > > I ENJOYED reading your book, and
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> killfiled and therefore don't even read his posts,
> let alone respond to them.

         > Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

         > > When you compare using sound and
         > > praise to solve a problem with using
         > > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
         > >  how can you criticize the use of sound?

         > There's nothing more to be said, then.
         > You've made up your mind.

         > But you've impressed me by mentioning
         > that you're a professor with 30 years of
         > experience.

         >  So, can you cite some examples of
         > people recommending "shock collars,
         > hanging, and punishment"?

BWWWAWHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

         > --
         > --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.

You think matty's playin with a full
goddamned deck?

matty's NOT a liar and dog abuser.

Isn't that true, Marilyn?

Of course not, but THIS IS:

"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
professora gingold.

         > >Di,

         > I don't believe you mentioned a particular
         > kind of training. If you are interested in
         > training retrieval behavior than do
         > consider our own Amy Dahl's:

         > The 10-Minute Retriever : How to Make a
         > Well-Mannered,  Obedient and
         > Enthusiastic Gun Dog in 10 Minutes a
         > Day by John I. Dahl, Amy Dahl

You failed to mention your pals the dahls are
proven liars and dog abusers, professor "SCRUFF SHAKE:"

          "I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A
          Dog I Do Not Believe There Is A Single
          Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A
          Dog Is Anything But Destructive,"

LUCKY thing CHIN CHUCK absolutely don't
mean slap the goddamned dog, we'd look like
a conspiracy of LIARS and DOG abusers if
CHIN CHUCK DID mean SLAP the dog.

"I don't see why anyone would want to choke or
beat a dog, or how any trainer could possibly get
a good working dog by making them unhapper,
fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying frosty dahl.

DOES THAT SOUND LIKE THE TRUTH?

         > just $17.95 at Amazon.com.

         > (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
         > few regulars here who are either ill-
         > tempered, ill-mannered, or just plain ill.)
         > --Marshall

Or HOWE about HOWER just plain CRUEL
STUPID and ABUSIVE DOG ABUSERS,
professor SCRUFF SHAKE?

amy lying frosty dahl continues:

          "On the other extreme, the really hard dogs
          we have trained require much more
          frequent and heavy application of pressure
         (PAIN j.h.) to get the job done,

         This is continued resistance to your
         increasing authority, and the job is
         not done until it is  overcome

         Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper
         wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher,
         less tractable dogs may require you to
         progress to striking them more sharply"

BUT NOBODY DOES THAT HERE...

        "Try pinching the ear between the metal
        casing and the collar,  even the buckle on
        the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will
       give in but will squeal, thrash around, and
       direct their efforts to escaping the ear pinch"

OR ATTACKING HIS ABUSER.

          "You can press the dog's ear with a
          shotshell instead of your thumb even
          get a studded collar and pinch the ear
         against that Make the dog's need to stop
         the pinching so urgent that resisting your
         will fades in importance.

          CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever
          Ready Right Hand, As it catches on, try
          using the stick and no ear pinch.

         When the dog is digging out to beat the
         stick and seems totally reliable without
         any ear pinch, you are finished

          This is continued resistance to your
          increasing authority, and the job is
          not done until it is overcome"

         If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly
         under the chin, say "No! Hold!"

          (stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps
          because the ear is getting tender, or the
          dog has decided it isn't worth it)" lying
          frosty dahl.

          "Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
           professora gingold.

From: Marshall Dermer (dermer@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
In article <38CC0C43.94E2DDD1@earthlink.net>
rhurwitz@earthlink.net writes:

         >> -snip headers etc.

         >> Yes. you're right, I really should find
         >> the book.. they don't have these books
         >> in the local pet stores I frequent, where
         >> do you find Koehler?

         > I got a nice large print copy from
         > Amazon.com

         >Richard

           Please try Powell's Books in Portland
           Oregon. Their URL is:

                             http://www.powells.com/

           Unlike Amazon.com, Powell's keeps both
           new and used books on its shelves. You
           can order books via e-email.

                              Koehler Method Of Dog
                              Training
                              by Koehler, W R
                              Published by HOWELL BOOK
                              HOUSE (0876056575,

========================================================

Here's some quotes and some methods right
outta your koehler book professor "SCRUFF SHAKE and scream "NO!"
into its
face for 5
seconds:"

"The Koehler Method of Dog Training (1962).  New York:
          Howell Book Book House(p. 52-53)."

          Hanging

"First, the trainer makes certain that the collar
and leash are more than adequate for any jerk
or strain that the dog's most frantic actions could cause.  Then
he starts
to work the dog deliberately and fairly to the point where the dog
makes his
grab.

Before the teeth have reached their target,
the dog, weight permitting, is jerked from
the ground.

As in coping with some of the afore-mentioned problems the dog is
suspended
in mid-air.

          However, to let the biting dog recover
          his footing while he still had the strength
          to renew the attack would be cruelty.

         The only justifiable course is to hold him
         suspended until he has neither the strength
         nor inclination to renew the fight.

         When finally it is obvious that he is
         physically incapable of expressing his
         resentment and is lowered to the ground,
        he will probably stagger loop-legged for a
        few steps, vomit once or twice, and roll
        over on his side.

        The sight of a dog lying, thick-tongued,
        on his side, is not pleasant, but do not
        let it alarm you

          THE REAL "HOOD"

          "If your dog is a real "hood" who would
          regard the foregoing types of protest as
         "kid stuff" and would express his
         resentment of your efforts by biting,
         your problem is difficult -- and pressing.

          "Professional trainers often get these
          extreme problems. Nearly always the
          "protest biter" is the handiwork of a
          person who, by avoiding situations that
          the dog might resent, has nurtured the
          seeds of rebellion and then  cultivated
         the resultant growth with under correction.

          When these people reap their inevitable
          and oftentimes painful harvest, they are
          ready to avail themselves of "the cruel
          trainer" whose advice they may have
          once rejected because it was incompatible
          with the sugary droolings of mealy-
         mouthed columnists, breed-ring biddies,
         and dog psychologists who, by the
         broken skins and broken hearts their
        misinformation causes, can be proven guilty
        of the greatest act of cruelty to animals
        since the dawn of time.

        "With more genuine compassion for the
        biting dog than would ever be demonstrated
        by those who are "too kind" to make a
        correction and certainly with more disregard
        for his safety, the professional trainer
        morally feels obligated to perform a "major
        operation."

         "Since we are presently concerned with
         the dog that bites in resentment of the
         demands of training, we will set our
         example in that situation.  (In a later
         chapter we will deal with the with the
         much easier problem of the dog that
         bites someone other than his master."

Are we havin FUN yet?

Got a lite, professor SCRUFF SHAKE?

The Puppy Wizard. <} : ~  )   >

> This message is posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior (r.p.d.b.) regularly and
> occasionally to other newsgroups including alt.animals.dog,
[quoted text clipped - 65 lines]
> absolutely have to jump in on something that's been crossposted to unrelated
> groups?  Erase the extraneous ones when you answer.
Josh - 15 Aug 2003 22:14 GMT
If you absolutely must respond to this bullshit, then don't crosspost and
trim it.  If you'd rather not end up in a lot of killfiles, I'd suggest you
just ignore it in the first place.
The Puppy Wizard - 15 Aug 2003 23:51 GMT
HOWEDY josh,

> If you absolutely must respond to this bullshit, then don't crosspost and
> trim it.  If you'd rather not end up in a lot of killfiles, I'd suggest you
> just ignore it in the first place.

Follow your own advice, josh. Don't forget to put NINNYBOY in
the subject header and snip crossposts and trim pertinent text
like HOWE ed w of PET LOSS dot COIN and professor SCRUFF
SHAKE recommend, to AVOID EMBARRASSMENT:

From: Josh (eternalNOTstudent@mindspring.com)
Subject: Re: To The Puppy Wizard
Date: 2003-08-08 04:10:58 PST

> I guess from now on if I have a behavioral question I will stay
in the
> behavior group which I just subbed to yesterday

It's really not necessary for you to limit yourself.  Just be
careful when
it comes to trolls.  You seem to have caught on pretty quick to
the fact
that messing around with Jerry and his sock puppets is not a good
idea.  If
you absolutely must respond to his posts, then be damn careful
that you
aren't crossposting to a bazillion groups, and nobody will care.
If you
just want advice, ignore him, or post in a group he doesn't seem
to read
much (he usually just cross-posts here, so this group wouldn't be
a bad
one).
 
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