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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / July 2004Tapazole and blood clots
Has anyone ever heard of Tapazole causing blood clots? A few days ago, a cat at the shelter who was hyperthyroid threw a clot and was rushed to the vet's, but died. It was very sad. Somehow it's gotten around that the Tapazole caused or contributed to the cat developing a blood clot. We have another cat at the shelter who's hyperthyroid, and is on twice the dose that the other cat was, and one of the volunteers said she didn't want to give this cat the Tapazole because she didn't want her to die like Buttons did. Sadly, this volunteer was the one who discovered Buttons and had to rush him to the vet, so I can understand that she is hesitant. I said, without the Tapazole, it's even more likely that Emerald (the other hyper-T cat), will die, so until we know more, it's best to medicate her. Anyway, I just want to get some more information on this. I wouldn't want anyone to withold Tapazole thinking it's going to kill a cat.  Signature-Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net Check out www.snittens.com > Has anyone ever heard of Tapazole causing blood clots? A few days ago, a > cat at the shelter who was hyperthyroid threw a clot and was rushed to the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Anyway, I just want to get some more information on this. I wouldn't want > anyone to withold Tapazole thinking it's going to kill a cat. I don't know the answer. One of my cats used to take Tapazole w/ no probs, & I have taken it for the past 6 years. I know that one has to watch liver values for a while when it's first prescribed, & though I suppose anything's possible, I haven't heard of common adverse side effects after that inital time frame. Cathy > Has anyone ever heard of Tapazole causing blood clots? A few days ago, a > cat at the shelter who was hyperthyroid threw a clot and was rushed to the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Anyway, I just want to get some more information on this. I wouldn't want > anyone to withold Tapazole thinking it's going to kill a cat. I would think it more likely the cat was just disposed to the clot. I've never heard of it as a side effect of Tapazole. << I would think it more likely the cat was just disposed to the clot. I've never heard of it as a side effect of Tapazole. >> Me either. Maybe the cat had hypertension, too, and threw the clot because of that. If it was because of the tapazole, I'm sure it's not very common. Poor kitty, I'm sure he knew he was cared about at the shelter, he was more fortunate than many others who don't have a good shelter to live in until they're adopted. Candace (take the litter out before replying by e-mail) See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace "One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other than human." (Loren Eisely) Cats that are hyperthyroid are at risk for all kinds of organ damage, not the least of which is heart. It is not at all uncommon for a hyperthyroid cat to have secondary heart disease. Tapazole is a pretty benign drug, and without it the cat will surely die. Any cat who is hyperthyroid should be closely monitored for kidneys, heart, hypertension, etc. etc. I've had several on tapazole, and yes the last one did throw a clot, but not until age 21 after being on it for many years. And her mom & dad also had thyroid disease, as did a couple of my other cats, with no problem as to clotting. > Has anyone ever heard of Tapazole causing blood clots? A few days ago, a > cat at the shelter who was hyperthyroid threw a clot and was rushed to the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Anyway, I just want to get some more information on this. I wouldn't want > anyone to withold Tapazole thinking it's going to kill a cat. > Cats that are hyperthyroid are at risk for all kinds of organ damage, not > the least of which is heart. It is not at all uncommon for a hyperthyroid [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > thyroid disease, as did a couple of my other cats, with no problem as to > clotting. Somehow I think the connection was misconstrued from hyperthyroidism and blood clots to the tapazole and blood clots. I'm really not sure how it got started, but now everyone's all in a panic. Signature-Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net Check out www.snittens.com > Has anyone ever heard of Tapazole causing blood clots? A few days ago, a > cat at the shelter who was hyperthyroid threw a clot and was rushed to the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Anyway, I just want to get some more information on this. I wouldn't want > anyone to withold Tapazole thinking it's going to kill a cat. This idea piqued my curiousity since my late Prissy had to be given Tapazole for the last year or so of her life and I was never told that there was a risk of blood clots nor do I ever remember seeing that idea put out in any of the places where I looked when researching hyperthyroidism. I just took a quick look to see specifically what the risks and side effects of Tapazole are and blood clots are'nt listed as one of them. I'd be kinda pissed at the person that started the rumor. > Has anyone ever heard of Tapazole causing blood clots? Nope. Tapazole can cause a lot of other side effects, but afaik, it doesn't affect clotting. -L. > Has anyone ever heard of Tapazole causing blood clots? A few days ago, a > cat at the shelter who was hyperthyroid threw a clot and was rushed to the > vet's, but died. It was very sad. Somehow it's gotten around that the > Tapazole caused or contributed to the cat developing a blood clot. Our vet told us that Buddha needed to either get radition therapy, surgery, or go on some very expensive medication because being hyperthyroid might CAUSE her to throw a blood clot. So I don't even understand your question. > > Has anyone ever heard of Tapazole causing blood clots? A few days ago, a > > cat at the shelter who was hyperthyroid threw a clot and was rushed to the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Our vet told us that Buddha needed to either get radition therapy, surgery, > or go on some very expensive medication because being hyperthyroid Not Tapazole/methimazole, then? 'Cause as meds go, it (Tapazole) is not pricey. At least it wasn't in '01. (I still get it for myself, but I get methimazole - the generic, & my insurance prescription card covers all but $3.) But when I was buying it for my cat, it was one of her less expensive meds. Baytril & Procrit, otoh - they were - & so I assume still are - pricey. Cathy might > CAUSE her to throw a blood clot. So I don't even understand your question. > Not Tapazole/methimazole, then? 'Cause as meds go, it (Tapazole) is not pricey. At least it wasn't in '01. (I still get it for myself, but I get methimazole - the generic, & my insurance prescription card covers all but $3.) But when I was buying it for my cat, it was one of her less expensive meds. Baytril & Procrit, otoh - they were - & so I assume still are - pricey. Well it certainly was nice of him NOT to tell us about Tapazole or any other medication that was not terribly expensive. He quoted a price of about $600 for whatever it was. However--my point was, if he was correct and being hyperthyroid causes a cat to, as he said, "throw a bloodclot and perhaps lose function in her back letgs," then why would ANY medication given to treat hyperthyroidism actually cause blood clots? I think the answer is worth looking into. I would certainly want to know before I put Buddha on it. Maybe this ought to be cross-posted to the vet group? > Well it certainly was nice of him NOT to tell us about Tapazole or any other > medication that was not terribly expensive. He quoted a price of about $600 > for whatever it was. You have a hyperthyroid cat and the vet *didn't* tell you about Tapazole? I thought that was the standard medication given for hyperthyroidism. So what did you end up doing for Buddha? Signature-Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net Check out www.snittens.com > You have a hyperthyroid cat and the vet *didn't* tell you about Tapazole? I think I covered that. No he did not. > I thought that was the standard medication given for hyperthyroidism. So what did you end up doing for Buddha? Nothing at all. He based his diagnosis on her very high heart rate (300 bpm) and wanted to treat based solely on that. Due to the fact that all treatments he quoted were so drastic (surgery, radiation, or very expensive medicine for a cat showing no signs of illness at all) I insisted on bloodwork that showed that her T3 levels were in the normal range. It is two years later, and she is perfectly fine. Even though he insisted that her high heart rate was "too high even for a very upset cat," this is a cat that howls all the way to the vet and is a basket case until we get her home. Add to this the fact that she is fat (and was a lot fatter then, it was before her diet) and being fat increases heart rates, and apparently we did the right thing. The last two times she has been in her heart rate was in the 200s--normal for a nervous cat. I don't trust vets or human doctors as a rule. > > You have a hyperthyroid cat and the vet *didn't* tell you about Tapazole? > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > > I don't trust vets or human doctors as a rule. As a rule, I trust both. But there are exceptions, or they may be holes within a doctor's or vet's general high level of knowledge. However, I don't understand how a vet could tell someone to treat for hyperthyroidism, based on one symptom, Vs. a group of symptoms, & without the bw numbers to back up their guess/hypothesis. Str-ange, IMO. Cathy .>> I don't trust vets or human doctors as a rule. >As a rule, I trust both. Well, bless your heart. For me, the consequences of their mistakes are potentially too high. I question, verify, requestion, and get a second opinion when I really feel uncomfortable. >But there are exceptions, or they may be holes >within a doctor's or vet's general high level of knowledge. This guy was new and young. There are two vets we usually see, and one is the founder of the practice, which began when he took over the office in 1985. He is a graduate of the NC State Vet School, as is the female doctor we usually see. It was the latter doctor who came to the house and euthanized Gnarly so her last experience was not sheer terror. >However, I don't understand how a vet could tell someone to treat for >hyperthyroidism, based on one symptom, Vs. a group of symptoms, & withoutthe bw numbers to back up their guess/hypothesis. Str-ange, IMO. Yeah, well. I had a talk with the founding vet at home after this. He's wonderful--his home telephone is listed so that anyone who needs him can reach him, even on his days off. I assume he had a talk with the other doctor, but I don't know. In the younger man's opinion, NOTHING but hyperthyroidism could cause a 300 bpm heart rate. Do you know of something else that could? She does not have any heart disease, and in fact has never had any health problems aside from being fat. Buddha is almost nine years old. > .>> I don't trust vets or human doctors as a rule. > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > are potentially too high. I question, verify, requestion, and get a second > opinion when I really feel uncomfortable. Well, of course, & so do I. As I hope all people would (although I bet not all do). But notice, I said "as a rule". And went on to state what follows. Cathy > >But there are exceptions, or they may be holes > >within a doctor's or vet's general high level of knowledge. >In the younger man's opinion, NOTHING >but hyperthyroidism could cause a 300 >bpm heart rate. That's not a vet I'd go back to. My cat Omar was diagnosed with Dilated Cardiomyopathy a few months ago, and his heart rate was 288 and higher. He developed chylothorax as well, but that has resolved now that the heart issue has been addressed. His heart rate has been brought down to about 164 now that he's on several medications, but the prognosis is not great as he has a pretty severe case so I have to go one day at a time and I hope for another. The only way to properly diagnose a heart condition is to get an echocardiogram. If you haven't done that and a T4 test for hyperthyroid is negative, then there aren't many other reasons the heart rate would be so high and you'd be wise to have one done ASAP. Every day a heart condition goes untreated is another day of more damage, and if you can get it diagnosed and under control quickly your cat could possibly have a good amount of time left. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > > Not Tapazole/methimazole, then? 'Cause as meds go, it (Tapazole) is not > pricey. At least it wasn't in '01. (I still get it for myself, but I get [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > medication that was not terribly expensive. He quoted a price of about $600 > for whatever it was. This isn't making sense to me: AFAIK, Tapazole is the most common med used for hyperthyroidism. $600 a what? Month, year, decade? > However--my point was, if he was correct and being hyperthyroid causes a cat > to, as he said, "throw a bloodclot and perhaps lose function in her back > letgs," then why would ANY medication given to treat hyperthyroidism > actually cause blood clots? I think the answer is worth looking into. I > would certainly want to know before I put Buddha on it. Maybe this ought to > be cross-posted to the vet group? I've never *heard* of Tapazole causing blood clots. Like any med, it can have certain side effects, & as I said one has to watch liver function at first, but most cats & people seem to tolerate it well. Cathy I wrote: > > Has anyone ever heard of Tapazole causing blood clots? A few days ago, a > > cat at the shelter who was hyperthyroid threw a clot and was rushed to the > > vet's, but died. It was very sad. Somehow it's gotten around that the > > Tapazole caused or contributed to the cat developing a blood clot. > Our vet told us that Buddha needed to either get radition therapy, surgery, > or go on some very expensive medication because being hyperthyroid might > CAUSE her to throw a blood clot. So I don't even understand your question. I don't know what's so hard to understand. Some of the volunteers have been attributing the cause of the blood clot to the Tapazole, not to the hyperthyroid condition. I've never heard of Tapazole causing blood clots, but I then again, I've only had experience with a few hyperthyroid cats, so I thought I'd ask here. I don't want the "Tapazole causes blood clots" theory going around if it's baseless. Signature-Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net Check out www.snittens.com > I wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > I don't know what's so hard to understand. Okay, then I'll say it again for you, more clearly. If Tapazole causes blood clots, why is it given for a disease that is known to cause blood clots. Simple enough? > Okay, then I'll say it again for you, more clearly. If Tapazole causes blood > clots, why is it given for a disease that is known to cause blood clots. > Simple enough? I like how you snipped the rest of the post that explained why I was asking this. Again, some of the volunteers are under the impression, and I don't know how this got started, that Tapazole caused the blood clot that killed Buttons. I wanted to know if there was any truth in this. I don't know everything about hyperthyroidism, and there are a lot of people on this ng that have had hyper-T cats, so I thought I'd ask if anyone has heard of this. No, it didn't quite make sense to me, but you never know. Signature-Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net Check out www.snittens.com > > Okay, then I'll say it again for you, more clearly. If Tapazole causes blood clots, why is it given for a disease that is known to cause blood clots. > > Simple enough? > > I like how you snipped the rest of the post that explained why I was asking this. Snipping is good. And what was there did not change the fact that the question displays a total lack of the most basic understanding of the disease. Perhaps someone should educate the volunteers about hyperthyroidism and other cat diseases. > I wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > I thought I'd ask here. I don't want the "Tapazole causes blood clots" > theory going around if it's baseless. FWIW, we saw a TON of cats on Tapazole - never saw one throw a clot. Reported side effects are gastrointestinal irritation, liver disease and anemia. The only problem we encountered regularly were GI issues - usually diarrhea. Overall, I think Tapazole is a poor choice for long-term treatment of hyperthyroidism in cats - radiotherapy being the best choice, but of course, not for ALL cats. Plus, it's spendy. -L. Kelly wrote: > Has anyone ever heard of Tapazole > causing blood clots? A few days ago, a [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > wouldn't want anyone to withold Tapazole > thinking it's going to kill a cat. If the shelter withholds medication they will be responsible if the cat develops and throws a blood clot. In a nutshell, Tapazole does NOT cause blood clots and in fact causes clotting to take longer. Untreated hyperthyroidism will cause heart damage, causing irregular heartbeats, etc. which can lead to the cat throwing a blood clot. Putting a cat on Tapazole *reduces* the risk of the heart getting damaged and throwing a clot, although if the cat went untreated for too long before the hyperthyroid was discovered the heart damage is irreversible and the cat can develop and throw clots. I think there should be a meeting with these shelter people, especially the volunteer that thinks not treating the hyperthyroid cat is a good idea, and informing them of this before these stupid rumors get out of hand and another cat dies from lack of treatment. It also might benefit them to do a little research rather than starting and promoting baseless rumors. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray <snip> > I think there should be a meeting with these shelter people, especially > the volunteer that thinks not treating the hyperthyroid cat is a good > idea, and informing them of this before these stupid rumors get out of > hand and another cat dies from lack of treatment. It also might benefit > them to do a little research rather than starting and promoting baseless > rumors. I have no idea how the rumor got started. I know those in charge of making cat care decisions would not discontinue Tapazole based on rumor, but other volunteers have been in a panic since this happened. I've done a bunch of research in the meantime and have some information to back me up. Buttons was a stray, so we have no idea how long he was hyperthyroid before he recieved treatment. He was declawed, so obviously he was someone's cat at some point in time. :-( Signature-Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net Check out www.snittens.com > <snip> > > I think there should be a meeting with these shelter people, especially [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > volunteers have been in a panic since this happened. I've done a bunch of > research in the meantime and have some information to back me up. Good; are you going to print out your info & bring it in? Maybe post it/tack it up where people tend to read info? Cathy Buttons > was a stray, so we have no idea how long he was hyperthyroid before he > recieved treatment. He was declawed, so obviously he was someone's cat at > some point in time. :-( <snip> > I think there should be a meeting with these shelter people, especially > the volunteer that thinks not treating the hyperthyroid cat is a good > idea, and informing them of this before these stupid rumors get out of > hand and another cat dies from lack of treatment. It also might benefit > them to do a little research rather than starting and promoting baseless > rumors. I have no idea how the rumor got started. I know those in charge of making cat care decisions would not discontinue Tapazole based on rumor, but other volunteers have been in a panic since this happened. I've done a bunch of research in the meantime and have some information to back me up. Buttons was a stray, so we have no idea how long he was hyperthyroid before he recieved treatment. He was declawed, so obviously he was someone's cat at some point in time. :-( Signature-Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net Check out www.snittens.com <snip> > I think there should be a meeting with these shelter people, especially > the volunteer that thinks not treating the hyperthyroid cat is a good > idea, and informing them of this before these stupid rumors get out of > hand and another cat dies from lack of treatment. It also might benefit > them to do a little research rather than starting and promoting baseless > rumors. I have no idea how the rumor got started. I know those in charge of making cat care decisions would not discontinue Tapazole based on rumor, but other volunteers have been in a panic since this happened. I've done a bunch of research in the meantime and have some information to back me up. Buttons was a stray, so we have no idea how long he was hyperthyroid before he recieved treatment. He was declawed, so obviously he was someone's cat at some point in time. :-( Signature-Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net Check out www.snittens.com My Pepper has been on Tapazol for several years, doubling her weight from a scary 5 lbs to over 10 lbs. One day her Tapazol came from a different company. The pills were smaller but were still the same dose of Tapazol. After a couple of weeks on this medication she suddenly was throwing up a lot of bright, red blood. The medication was discontinued while she went to the vet for a thorough check-up, x-rays and ultrasound. Nothing was found. I asked the vet if we could get the original meds that she was on and he got them but with some difficulty and will now try to get the same meds from now on. She has been fine ever since. Did the different brand of Tapazol cause the change? Is "throwing a blood clot" the same as throwing up blood? is this of any help? -- Barb Of course I don't look busy, I did it right the first time. circa Sat, 03 Jul 2004 17:18:17 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Barb (bguzzino@suffolk.lib.ny.us) said, > Is "throwing a blood clot" the same as throwing up blood? Definitely not. "Throwing a blood clot" is a clot in a vein/artery that disrupts blood flow to some part of the body. When it happens in the brain, it's called a stroke. When it happens in a pulmonary artery, it's called a pulmonary embolism, etc., etc. and so on. There are lots of different names for conditions that are caused by blood clots somewhere in the body. Throwing up blood usually indicates something like an ulcer or uncontrolled internal bleeding, which, really, is kind of the opposite of a blood clot. Laura SignatureExperience is the name every one gives to their mistakes. -Oscar Wilde In the fine newsgroup "rec.pets.cats.health+behav", Laura R. <UseFirstInitialPlusRobinson@technologist.com> artfully composed this message within <news:MPG.1b50c11a1828ed1d98ad35@news.verizon.net> on 03 Jul 2004: > Throwing up blood usually indicates > something like an ulcer or uncontrolled internal bleeding, which, > really, is kind of the opposite of a blood clot. I wonder if "throwing a clot" is sometimes used generically? After Shadow's surgery and he vomitted blood (not bright red, either, BTW) the vet said he "threw a clot" but then prescribed Pepcid and Carafate (SP) after 2 transfusions were done. She also suggested an ulcer (obviously, from the meds prescibed) but my gut feeling was because of the complications with the feeding tube. His PCV was down around 6 when that happened. SignatureCheryl Barb wrote in message ... >My Pepper has been on Tapazol for several years, doubling her weight from a scary 5 lbs to over 10 lbs. I shudder to think what might have happened had I been persuaded to put my girl on Tapazol, since she was at that time really overweight. What are the other risks of hyperthyroid besides blood clots? > Barb wrote in message ... > >My Pepper has been on Tapazol for several years, doubling her weight from a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > time really overweight. What are the other risks of hyperthyroid besides > blood clots? One's entire system revving too fast when hyperthyroid: the metabolism is too high. Therefore, basically the entire body & all of its organs are stressed. If you Google hyperthyroidism, you'll get a ton of info. Cathy I told the Cat Coordinator about the "tapazole causes blood clots" rumor, and she sent out an email to everyone that this is *not* true. She will also post this at the shelter. Signature-Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net Check out www.snittens.com > Has anyone ever heard of Tapazole causing blood clots? A few days ago, a > cat at the shelter who was hyperthyroid threw a clot and was rushed to the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Anyway, I just want to get some more information on this. I wouldn't want > anyone to withold Tapazole thinking it's going to kill a cat. > I told the Cat Coordinator about the "tapazole causes blood clots" rumor, > and she sent out an email to everyone that this is *not* true. She will > also post this at the shelter. Good; that should take care of that. Cathy > > Has anyone ever heard of Tapazole causing blood clots? A few days ago, a > > cat at the shelter who was hyperthyroid threw a clot and was rushed to the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Anyway, I just want to get some more information on this. I wouldn't want > > anyone to withold Tapazole thinking it's going to kill a cat. > Has anyone ever heard of Tapazole causing blood clots? A few days ago, a > cat at the shelter who was hyperthyroid threw a clot and was rushed to the > vet's, but died. It was very sad. Somehow it's gotten around that the > Tapazole caused or contributed to the cat developing a blood clot. Tapazole does not cause blood clots (aortic thromboembolism). However, hyperthyroidism can cause myocardial hypertrophy that is very similar to hyperthrophic cardiomyopathy that could predispose the cat to clots. Thromboembolism in cats with hyperthyroidism is very uncommon. The few recorded cases were usually found in cats with long-standing, untreated thyrotoxicosis. Phil. Signature"Cat eyes seem a bridge to a world beyond the one we know" Lynn Hollyn >> Has anyone ever heard of Tapazole causing blood clots? A few days ago, a >> cat at the shelter who was hyperthyroid threw a clot and was rushed to the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Phil. Welcome back -- I always enjoyed your posts. MLB > >> Has anyone ever heard of Tapazole causing blood clots? A few days ago, a > >> cat at the shelter who was hyperthyroid threw a clot and was rushed to the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Phil. > Welcome back -- I always enjoyed your posts. MLB Thanks... I didn't realize I left - just haven't had much time. Phil "Cat people are different, to the extent that they generally are not conformists. How could they be, with a cat running their lives?" --Louis Camuti Feline Healthcare: http://maxshouse.com Phil P. wrote in message ... > I didn't realize I left - just haven't had much time. > >Phil Phil, have you got any ideas about what might cause a 300 bpm heart rate on occasions? Would you agree with the young vet that this is too high for just nervousness re going to the vet? |
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