Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / June 2004
Dilemma/Annie-loooong
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MacCandace - 28 Jun 2004 07:17 GMT Okay, my turn to have a dilemma. Some of you may know that we now have only 2 cats, Scottie, 7, neutered male, and Abbey, 3, spayed female. On 3/27 (3 months ago today), we had our beloved Cory, 18, euthanized. In 2001, we had Miles, only 8, euthanized, and in, 1999, we had Emily, 14, euthanized. In the 10 years we have been together, we have had either 3 or 4 indoor cats (and countless outdoor ferals), so now with only 2, it seems kinda empty to me. But I didn't want to rush into anything after Cory. He was my most "special" kitty (they've all been wonderful, he was just more bonded to me) and he can't be replaced, I know, but I sure would like another sweetheart of a kitty that would let me pick him up all I wanted and would tolerate being kissed (Abbey hates it and Scottie isn't overly fond of it).
And, shallow as it may seem, I want a tuxedo kitty again. Cory was one, his mom, Emily was one, our most recent outdoor feral who met a bad end, Joey, was one. My parents' late cat was one and the cat I had growing up was one. So I want a tuxedo, especially. But another black and white might do, too. My theory is that we are going to adopt one cat in the next couple of months so one cat is going to get a home regardless so I may as well hold out for what I want.
All of my cats have been strays that I've found. While we currently have ferals, they are not warming up to us except to accept our food. Our house is kind of open...not many places to separate cats. Only one bathroom so that's not good. Trust me, it's pretty much open and only about 1500 sq. feet, not real big. So I don't want to trap ferals and bring them in here and tame them. We take care of our ferals quite well and care about them but feral they will probably remain. I want to get a cat from one of the rescues operating out of PetsMart or possibly the Humane Society. I want a cat that is already spayed/neutered, already tested for disease, etc. so I don't have to worry about that (I always think something bad will happen to them when I take them in even tho I know that is very rare). Hence...PetsMart.
Last weekend, I saw a huge b/w cat there, not tuxedo. Her name is Annie. She was offered for 1/2 price because she had just been returned for being "vocal at night." I thought about her several times this last week and when we went in tonight to get the kids their food for the week, she was still there. We went in the room and one of the associates let her out in the little room. She is tubby! Tony picked her up, she hissed, growled, etc. We put her down and petted her and she again hissed and growled. I picked her up and she grabbed my arms with her claws out and tried to nail me (she must weigh about 20 pounds, she was heavy!). She was vocal throughout making annoyed-sounding meows. Not a sterling first impression. Her card says she was fostered and gets along with other cats but I wonder. The adopters from the rescue group were no longer there so I don't think we could have just taken her even if we wanted. I think we would have just filled out an app and waited to hear. But, I really feel sorry for Annie and wonder how she will get adopted now. She's already reduced to half price and she just was not lovable acting. I worry we might be sorry if we take her and that Scottie and Abbey might be even sorrier. I don't know what they mean by vocal at night. Scottie is vocal at night for about 3 or 4 minutes and then goes to sleep. He does this once or twice throughout the night but it's tolerable because it's not that long and we are able to fall back asleep. Cory used to be vocal at night also but, again, for only a couple minutes. I worry that Annie might just be a constant meower and we do work in the daytime so we do need to sleep at night. And, as I mentioned, there are not that many internal doors. If our house were real big, we could shut her into a room if she was loud at night but, as it is, we would just have to shut her out of our room and Scottie and Abbey are used to coming and going all night.
I guess I don't think she's quite what I was looking for but I feel so bad for her and concerned about her future, that I feel drawn to her. What if she keeps being returned? Maybe she was just unhappy being cooped up in a cage at PetsMart and her real personality didn't come through. I'm sure it didn't, as a matter of fact. Her card said she was loving but we didn't see that, really. I would feel really bad taking her and then wanting to return her. But who will ever take her (rhetorical question)? The group is no-kill but I wonder what they will do with her if she isn't adopted for a long time. I don't know if they will just leave her there at PetsMart indefinitely or re-foster her or what. I guess I should try to talk to one of them and get some answers.
Am I wrong to not take her if I feel it's not right and why do I feel so guilty? It's all too sad...but at least she's not at the pound or the humane society where she would have to pay with her life.
Candace (take the litter out before replying by e-mail)
See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace
"One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other than human." (Loren Eisely)
Laura R. - 28 Jun 2004 07:53 GMT circa 28 Jun 2004 06:17:27 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, MacCandace (maccandace@aol.comlitter) said,
> Am I wrong to not take her if I feel it's not right and why do I feel so > guilty? It's all too sad...but at least she's not at the pound or the humane > society where she would have to pay with her life. Well, I'm definitely not the one to provide any advice here since Jack and Natasha are in my house right now due to my own feelings of guilt about what would happen to them if I didn't take them.
On the up side, they're fitting in beautifully. :-)
Honestly, you have to make the decision for yourself. People can tell you what they think you should do, but you are the one who has to live with the results of your decision. Sorry to sound unhelpful, but any replies you get are invariably colored by the responder's personal feelings and opinions. I'm not saying that the responses don't help, because if nothing else they might help you to crystallize your feelings, but don't let anybody talk you into doing something you don't want to do, or for that matter, talk you *out* of something you feel compelled to do.
Laura
 Signature Experience is the name every one gives to their mistakes. -Oscar Wilde
MacCandace - 28 Jun 2004 09:11 GMT << Sorry to sound unhelpful, but any replies you get are invariably colored by the responder's personal feelings and opinions. >>
I know. If only she'd have been kinda sweet, we probably would have taken her. And I know it's not her fault, she's been passed around a lot lately and no doubt feels stressed and depressed. Yet there were other cats there, who probably also feel stressed, and they were acting nice and friendly. Poor girl, but I worry about her personality and also about the vocalizing at night that she was returned for. I don't want to do the same thing...I'm hoping I'll have a dream tonight or some other epiphany that will make the answer clear.
Candace (take the litter out before replying by e-mail)
See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace
"One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other than human." (Loren Eisely)
Laura R. - 28 Jun 2004 14:58 GMT circa 28 Jun 2004 08:11:48 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, MacCandace (maccandace@aol.comlitter) said,
> << Sorry to sound unhelpful, but > any replies you get are invariably colored by the responder's [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > that she was returned for. I don't want to do the same thing...I'm hoping I'll > have a dream tonight or some other epiphany that will make the answer clear. Well, one thing I will toss into the pot is this- Alex was a real bastid. I can't recall if he was at the humane society, but he sure was when I got him home. It probably took a full year for him to adjust, but he was one of the most beloved pets I've ever had. :-)
Don't let bitchiness throw you off; there's usually a sweetheart inside.
Laura
 Signature Experience is the name every one gives to their mistakes. -Oscar Wilde
Karen - 28 Jun 2004 17:40 GMT I was also thinking, go back and visit like everyday for a week trying to handle her. It might show you more of her real personality instead of her, "oh my god another stranger is touching me" side.
Karen
> circa 28 Jun 2004 06:17:27 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, > MacCandace (maccandace@aol.comlitter) said, [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Laura Betsy - 28 Jun 2004 15:12 GMT I've taken in several grumpy cats that turned into lap cats. I recommend you go for it. Annie probably doesn't have a prayer unless you do, and you sound like you'll work with her to bring her around.
My grumpiest cat was also very vocal. It turned out he was deaf. I didn't have him long, as he'd lived a rough life before that, but for the last six months or so he wanted nothing less than to be held and carried around. I should have bought a baby sling and put him in it.
> Okay, my turn to have a dilemma. Some of you may know that we now have only 2 > cats, Scottie, 7, neutered male, and Abbey, 3, spayed female. On 3/27 (3 [quoted text clipped - 78 lines] > "One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other > than human." (Loren Eisely) Sunflower - 28 Jun 2004 17:11 GMT I don't know what type of vet care these cats may be receiving, but I just have to say an overweight cat that is bitchy may be suffering from some health problem that is making them feel bad and thus grumpy. Many groups, including ours, don't really have the funds for a full health workup and just do the minimal amount of vet visits that we can get away with before the animal is adopted.
I'd contact the rescue group for more information, and ask to speak directly to the person who had fostered her before. Many times the cage cards will have "happy happy joy joy" stories and either not give you any negatives or put a spin on the negatives. A foster mom is usually more honest. Then, I'd ask if it could be possible that a recue representative would allow you t meet with her in a less stressful environment. Perhaps the former foster mom's home?
It's obvious that you're drawn to this cat, but you are wise for being cautious. I'm currently dealing with a declawed shelter cat that I adopted out of sympathy more than love, and who has a LOT of behavior issues related to him having a bad declaw (which I fixed) and being extremely neurotic. I thought he would settle down, but it's been over a year, and his heath checks out fine, and he is still having inappropriate elimination, marking, and aggression issues. We're tried literally everthing including prozac and we're down to the last straw. I will not let him end up at a shelter again to be even more traumatized, and I won't make him live his life in a tiny cage in my home. I am committed to making his life as good a quality as I can, but if he won't work with me, it then affects my other animal's quality of life and mine as well.
No moral in my story, I guess, other than to be ever watchful of who you let your heart attach itself to. If the match is good, it can be great, but even if it's not so good, it can have it's moments before it breaks your heart. Only you can decide if you want to take that chance.
Karen - 28 Jun 2004 17:38 GMT Can you ask to speak with the foster home? That would be my first question. I would imagine that even as grumpy as she is, she would be less grumpy in a stable enivronment. You also have a big open floor plan which IMO is helpful to cats that want to be away from other cats but still be "part" of the scene. Pretty good set up to bring a grump into actually. I'll be interested in what others say.
Karen
> Okay, my turn to have a dilemma. Some of you may know that we now have only 2 > cats, Scottie, 7, neutered male, and Abbey, 3, spayed female. On 3/27 (3 [quoted text clipped - 78 lines] > "One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other > than human." (Loren Eisely) KellyH - 28 Jun 2004 18:29 GMT > Okay, my turn to have a dilemma. <snip for space>
> Am I wrong to not take her if I feel it's not right and why do I feel so > guilty? It's all too sad...but at least she's not at the pound or the humane > society where she would have to pay with her life. > > Candace Can you call the rescue organization for more information about Annie? Perhaps you can even talk to the foster mom personally and ask your questions. You could also maybe find out more about why she was returned. Maybe the person that adopted her shut their bedroom door at night, and that's why she was so vocal. Maybe they had a lot of strays in the area peering in the windows.
In any case, don't feel pressured to take this particular cat. You will know in your heart if it is right. If this is a reputable no-kill shelter, they will work with Annie to help her be the best cat she can be, and find just the right home.
 Signature -Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net Check out www.snittens.com
-L. : - 28 Jun 2004 23:22 GMT > Am I wrong to not take her if I feel it's not right and why do I feel so > guilty? It's all too sad...but at least she's not at the pound or the humane > society where she would have to pay with her life. > > Candace > (take the litter out before replying by e-mail) Nope, not wrong at all. It has to be a good fit, or it could be a disaster. Sounds like she may need an only-kitty home. Don't feel guilty - save a life elsewhere and find the *right* kitty for you.
-L.
MacCandace - 29 Jun 2004 02:44 GMT << Nope, not wrong at all. It has to be a good fit, or it could be a disaster. Sounds like she may need an only-kitty home. Don't feel guilty - save a life elsewhere and find the *right* kitty for you.
-L. >>
Thank you all. I feel like I might have to go with Lyn's and other's here responses. I feel too nervous about Annie although I'm not ruling her out. In fact, I am going to drop in and see her more and see what I feel (like Karen suggested). If I went in and she had been adopted, though, I wouldn't feel sad, I would feel really glad and relieved. That tells me it might not be right. And then...I stopped in at the Petsmart by where I work today and they have 2 tuxedos. One didn't have a card on his cage so i don't know what the deal was there. The other was a 6 yr. old male named Marbles. No one was around to let me get him out so I left but he's the one I'm thinking of.
It's the same group that Annie is with (HALO-Helping Animals Live On). I am erring in calling them a shelter, they're a no-kill rescue group who primarily takes animals off the euthanasia list but also has strays and cats turned in other ways. I was reading the cards and they all have a sad story, some sadder than others but this little guy has been there at least 2-3 weeks, I know, because someone I work with saw him back then. So, either way, I would be freeing one of them from a caged life. Maybe I should just take who I want. If I take Annie, I'm still going to want a tux and I don't think Tony is going to go for getting 2 new cats right now. 4 is our optimum number and I like to leave a slot open for an emergency which is what our youngest cat Abbey was.
I know, some of you may think I'm awful. But I am going to try to get more info about Annie. I'm going to fill out the online app tonight and ask to speak with them about both cats. I'm also going to inquire about volunteering for them at the Petsmart by me. Then I could see Annie more and see what she's really like. Maybe I won't even get approved and that will be that but I can't think of any reason why I would be denied. I guess that's the first step and maybe if I talk to them, I can glean more critical info.
If I lived alone, I would have more cats and I would take both of them...but there would still be more with a sad story of their own that I couldn't take.
That's my plan, fill out the app, talk to them, visit Annie again, and see what unfolds.
And as for her health issues as someone suggested (Sunflower), that is another concern. She has no age on her card but I do wonder if she may be ill...beyond her weight issue. I just got out of a period of 2 years with a terminally ill cat and I would like a little relief from vet bills for a couple of years at least. I know you can never gauge that for sure and any cat could get ill but I feel better about Marbles in that area, too.
Thanks, to be continued, but to me, also, Annie just looked like "only cat" home.
Candace (take the litter out before replying by e-mail)
See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace
"One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other than human." (Loren Eisely)
Cathy Friedmann - 29 Jun 2004 02:53 GMT I don't think it's awful. Different people have different tolerances for different things. No matter which cat you adopt, you'll be giving one a home who didn't have one.
Cathy
> << Nope, not wrong at all. It has to be a good fit, or it could be a > disaster. Sounds like she may need an only-kitty home. Don't feel [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > "One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other > than human." (Loren Eisely) Laura R. - 29 Jun 2004 03:44 GMT circa 29 Jun 2004 01:44:06 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, MacCandace (maccandace@aol.comlitter) said,
> I know, some of you may think I'm awful. Not in the least. Good luck with your decision. :-)
Laura
 Signature Experience is the name every one gives to their mistakes. -Oscar Wilde
Tracy - 29 Jun 2004 05:02 GMT Well, just for a contrasting view ... I adopted a psycho kitty from a no-kill shelter 10 months ago. Very frightened, shook when you petted her, couldn't pick her up, scratched madly when restrained, mostly catatonic look in her eyes when we approached. She was about 14 months then, longhaired tuxedo, not born feral, but abandoned and found with a feral colony by a woman who trapped, spayed and didn't release her, but decided to rehome her based on her observed interactions of the feral colony. The cat liked to be petted on her terms, occaisionally, but that was about it. But somehow we were drawn to her. It was seemingly a disaster, five weeks more or less under the bed, terrible fights with our other cat, but somehow about week six, she just came out of it, made friends with the other cat, allowed us to collar her and since then, has spent the last 8 1/2 months turning into a total lovebug who sleeps with us and follows me around the house if I'n home during the day. She's a great cat, was just angry and scared and mistrustful and needed some time to find her way. Sometimes it's just about giving them some time. If something in your heart is telling you that this cat may need you, it's possible that she really does. If you do take her on, just be prepared to give it time, and to have her take from you for a while until she is able to give something back.
This cat languished at the shelter for five and ahalf months because she had "none" of the adoptable characteristics that people look for, but there was a wonderful loving cat inside. Sometimes that really is the case and somebody just needs to take that chance. It just might be you.
MacCandace - 29 Jun 2004 05:47 GMT << This cat languished at the shelter for five and ahalf months because she had "none" of the adoptable characteristics that people look for, but there was a wonderful loving cat inside. >>
That's a very nice story, Tracy. I'm not sure I want to take that on but I am considering it and have written to the group asking for more info on her.
Candace (take the litter out before replying by e-mail)
See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace
"One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other than human." (Loren Eisely)
Tracy - 29 Jun 2004 22:51 GMT > That's a very nice story, Tracy. I'm not sure I want to take that on but I am > considering it and have written to the group asking for more info on her. > > Candace I'm not trying to guilt you into it - honestly - LOL. I just wanted to speak out on behalf of psycho cats. They don't ALWAYS live up to your worst expectations. While the whole thing looked very unpromising at the start, and my hubby was all for returning psycho cat to the shelter (I think the line was "you have to admit this cat has MAJOR issues"), she has turned out fabulous and a great companion to cat #1.
I've even forgiven her for the three inch gash in my arm from the early days :>
She just had never been a house cat, or a pet before, or not for long, and she had no idea what to do and how to be. She was terrified of every household noise, and had no clue how to interact with humans. She'd weep when I made the bed, shaking underneath there. It was heartbreaking. And the resident cat, who started out jealous, would end up just shaking her head, totally weirded out and giving me plaintive looks that said "And why did you bring me home a nutso cat?".
Truthfully, I had no experience with a semi-feral cat like she was, and was in over my head. But we gave her space, tried not to freak out too much (didn't always succeed, but we tried), and in time, she would scuttle about furtively exploring.
The turning point was at about 4 months in, when she'd started functioning semi-normally and it was time to go to the vet. My husband finally coralled her without too much bodily damage, and when we left the house for the two block walk to the vet, she hurled her body against the carrier so hard I almost dropped it and emitted a primal scream so loud and piercing it was hard to tolerate. This was it, the fear of abandonment, and I understood how intense it really was for her. She lapsed into a semi-catatonic state at the vet, and when we returned home, the amazement in her face was a sight to behold. She'd never returned from anywhere before and she couldn't believe it. And then the floodgates came unleashed and there was affection and trust and she was "our cat". And she's never looked back.
It really can work out just fine in the end, so sometimes there's something to be said for taking on a problem cat. They aren't always irredeemable.
Laura R. - 30 Jun 2004 00:20 GMT circa 29 Jun 2004 14:51:20 -0700, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Tracy (twrl2001@yahoo.com) said,
> It really can work out just fine in the end, so sometimes there's > something to be said for taking on a problem cat. They aren't always > irredeemable. Yup, like this guy here:
http://www.dotphoto.com/go.asp?l=geekwench&AID=370271
:-) Laura
 Signature Experience is the name every one gives to their mistakes. -Oscar Wilde
Cathy Friedmann - 30 Jun 2004 00:30 GMT > circa 29 Jun 2004 14:51:20 -0700, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, > Tracy (twrl2001@yahoo.com) said, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Laura That sweet kitty was a monster kitty?!
I think I would've set the record straight, re: that cat food bowl, too! <g>
Cathy
Laura R. - 30 Jun 2004 00:54 GMT circa Tue, 29 Jun 2004 19:30:57 -0400, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Cathy Friedmann (clfr@adelphia.net) said,
> > > It really can work out just fine in the end, so sometimes there's > > > something to be said for taking on a problem cat. They aren't always [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > That sweet kitty was a monster kitty?! Are you kidding? That's the cat who put me in the hospital! He was a serious <insert bad words to indicate "bastid" here>. I even called the humane society after I brought him home because he had just beaten the bejeezus out of all of my other cats (simultaneously) and I didn't think there was any way I could keep him.
I'm certainly glad that I did. :-) He was a wonderful, wonderful cat.
> I think I would've set the record straight, re: that cat food bowl, too! <g> Isn't that just hideous? But it keeps the food raised, which was important for Alex when he was alive, and now is important for Jacob because of the stomach acid side effect of CRF. I try not to let people see it. <G>
Laura
 Signature Experience is the name every one gives to their mistakes. -Oscar Wilde
Cathy Friedmann - 30 Jun 2004 00:56 GMT > circa Tue, 29 Jun 2004 19:30:57 -0400, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, > Cathy Friedmann (clfr@adelphia.net) said, [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > I'm certainly glad that I did. :-) He was a wonderful, wonderful cat. Oh, I know. Just teasing. ;-)
> > I think I would've set the record straight, re: that cat food bowl, too! <g> > > Isn't that just hideous? But it keeps the food raised, which was > important for Alex when he was alive, and now is important for Jacob > because of the stomach acid side effect of CRF. I try not to let > people see it. <G> Useful, at least; that's good - & its saving grace. Yes, just a tad on the cutesy-wootsy side. <g>
Cathy
Laura R. - 30 Jun 2004 01:16 GMT circa Tue, 29 Jun 2004 19:56:15 -0400, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Cathy Friedmann (clfr@adelphia.net) said,
> > > I think I would've set the record straight, re: that cat food bowl, too! > <g> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Useful, at least; that's good - & its saving grace. Yes, just a tad on the > cutesy-wootsy side. <g> A *tad*? I think it oozes cacabooboo cutesy kitsch. Blech. I actually do not like any cat knick-knacks. Hate 'em, in fact. If I want to look at cats, I'll look at my cats, not at some cheesy ceramic reproduction or saccharine drawing. The bowl, I made an exception for 'cause it *is* useful and it's at least a tiny bit abstract so I can pass it off as "artsy". ;-)
Laura
 Signature Experience is the name every one gives to their mistakes. -Oscar Wilde
Cathy Friedmann - 30 Jun 2004 01:25 GMT > circa Tue, 29 Jun 2004 19:56:15 -0400, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, > Cathy Friedmann (clfr@adelphia.net) said, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > A *tad*? I think it oozes cacabooboo cutesy kitsch. Blech. Yeah; that was an understatement I'd made.
I actually
> do not like any cat knick-knacks. Hate 'em, in fact. If I want to > look at cats, I'll look at my cats, not at some cheesy ceramic [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Laura Uhhh... "artsy" is pushing it, IMO; more like rationalization. ;-)
Cathy
Laura R. - 30 Jun 2004 01:53 GMT circa Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:25:43 -0400, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Cathy Friedmann (clfr@adelphia.net) said,
> > > Useful, at least; that's good - & its saving grace. Yes, just a tad on > the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Uhhh... "artsy" is pushing it, IMO; more like rationalization. ;-) Hey, I admit it. Why do you think I put it where people won't see it? ;-)
Laura
 Signature Experience is the name every one gives to their mistakes. -Oscar Wilde
-L. : - 30 Jun 2004 08:22 GMT > This cat languished at the shelter for five and ahalf months because > she had "none" of the adoptable characteristics that people look for, > but there was a wonderful loving cat inside. Sometimes that really is > the case and somebody just needs to take that chance. It just might be > you. I totally agree, and people willing to take the time and effort to do so are saints in my book. BUT, that doesn't mean that someone who isn't willing or doesn't have the time should feel guilty about not taking a seemingly "unadoptable" cat. Friendly, loving, outgoing cats and kittens are killed by the thousands daily for lack of homes - ANY cat adopted off of death row is good, in my book.
-L.
Tracy - 30 Jun 2004 18:06 GMT > I totally agree, and people willing to take the time and effort to do > so are saints in my book. BUT, that doesn't mean that someone who [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > -L. Repeat .... "I'm not trying to guilt you into it - honestly - LOL. I just wanted to speak out on behalf of psycho cats"
I really don't think sainthood is the issue here. It really doesn't, at least in some cases, take that amount of sacrifice. Let's not overstate it. Just a little time and patience. It's not really anything on the order of sainthood.
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