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kitten does not play anymore

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MadHatter - 09 Jun 2004 22:35 GMT
so i had some concerns earlier about my kitten not eating, but she
seems fine now and eats well now, but she is no longer playful.  she's
mostly sleeps and eats.  when i just brought her, she was all about
catching and climbing and hunting our hands and gently biting, just as
one would expect a kitten to do.  she also loved to chase a string.
now she loves to nap and is lying on her back in my lap.  why wouldn't
an otherwise healthy 7 week-old kitty run around and play?  i am
planning to get her a friend soon.  i am concerned, since this is not
a typical behavior that i've seen among kittens and my cat had 2
litters, or 4 and 8 kittens before we spayed her, and our cat in
Russia had probably 4 litters.  i am thinking it's because she is the
only kitten, but when we got our Murka, the one who had 2 litters, she
was an extremely lively and curious kitty.  she was also kinda
vicious, but we expected a cat to hunt.  

-L

-
Sharon Talbert - 09 Jun 2004 23:56 GMT
A quiet kitten is not a healthy kitten.  Please consult your vet asap.
Mary - 10 Jun 2004 01:52 GMT
> A quiet kitten is not a healthy kitten.  Please consult your vet asap.

I guess my advice is bad advice then. I did not know this.
MadHatter - 10 Jun 2004 16:47 GMT
>A quiet kitten is not a healthy kitten.  Please consult your vet asap.

thanks, everyone.  i just checked her gums: they are too pale to be
healthy.  i'm taking her to see a vet ASAP today, at 3pm.  i don't
have a kitty carrier, so i will take her in a large travel bag, in a
cab, the will stop by a pet store that's near the vet's office, buy
her a carrier to taker comfortable back home.
i just got 2 months free pet insurance from petfinder.com, but i don't
think it covers any routine shots, only illnesses and accidents.  
how much are the booster shots?  

thanks,
Lena
PawsForThought - 10 Jun 2004 17:31 GMT
>From: MadHatter devil_m@y_care.lost

>i just got 2 months free pet insurance from petfinder.com, but i don't
>think it covers any routine shots, only illnesses and accidents.  
>how much are the booster shots?  

Lena, I would highly recommend against vaccinating this kitten until you know
she's 100% healthy.  The insert in the vaccine package says "only administer to
healthy animals".

I'm glad you have an appt with the vet.  Please let us know what they say.

Lauren
________
See my cats:  http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
MadHatter - 11 Jun 2004 00:47 GMT


>>From: MadHatter devil_m@y_care.lost
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>Lauren
>________

i just brought her back from the vet. she is, in fact, slightly sick.
i thought she still might have worms and she does.  they needed a
stool sample, which she eagerly provided, in her carrier, on a fuzzy
blanket, of course and not on a paper towel as we hoped :). i checked
her gums yesterday, as someone suggested and they were pale.  the vet
also said that she might be slightly anemic, due to worms and i
pointed out that she seems to have had blood in her stool.  i forget
the name of the specific parasite that may cause that, but she
apparently had it.   they gave her fluids SQ, dewormed her and did a
test for glucose levels.  they gave me medicine for her to treat her
for worms and an iron supplement.  
when i came back, i gave her the iron supplement first.  ooooh, she
was so unhappy about that!  it took me 3 tries to give her 0.2 ml via
pipette and then i gave her the anti-worm medicine - 0.5 ml - but by
that time i figured how to hold her.  she was not pleased at all, poor
thing, but i guess it didn't taste too bad.  she just doesn't like to
be handled in such a manner.  she had some water and now is sleeping.
i hope her mood picks up soon.  damn, i should 've signed up for a 2
months free sheltercare insurance earlier!  it doesn't begin until
tomorrow and i paid $228 for all this!  oh well.  i hope she gets
better soon.

-L

she is still kinda sleepy, but she was very lively in the office and
sat on the receptionist's shoulder while i went to get her a carrier.
Cheryl - 11 Jun 2004 02:32 GMT
In the fine newsgroup "rec.pets.cats.health+behav", MadHatter
<devil_m@y_care.lost> artfully composed this message within
<news:t0shc0lbhf59maeav15mrjg7f1b50f0jpi@4ax.com> on 10 Jun 2004:

> i just brought her back from the vet. she is, in fact, slightly
> sick. i thought she still might have worms and she does.

Worms can make them feel just so bad. I'm so glad that she's on the
mend now and you'll have that playful happy kitten again! Purrs. Did
you ask the vet about when would be a good time to bring in another?  
:)

Signature

Cheryl

MadHatter - 11 Jun 2004 20:43 GMT
>In the fine newsgroup "rec.pets.cats.health+behav", MadHatter
><devil_m@y_care.lost> artfully composed this message within
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>you ask the vet about when would be a good time to bring in another?  
>:)

she said that i shouldn't bring another kitten until this one is
healthy.  i am worried, though, because she is still lethargic and
naps all the time, except when she eats.  when she meows, she usually
either opens her mouth with no sound, or makes a very quiet sound.
she very rarely meows "well".  it also looks like really bright light
during the day bothers her.  i know i just took her to the vet, so i
have to wait, but i hope she doesn't have anything worse than worms.

-L
PawsForThought - 11 Jun 2004 21:03 GMT
>From: MadHatter devil_m@y_care.lost

> i am worried, though, because she is still lethargic and
>naps all the time, except when she eats.  when she meows, she usually
>either opens her mouth with no sound, or makes a very quiet sound.
>she very rarely meows "well".  it also looks like really bright light
>during the day bothers her.  i know i just took her to the vet, so i
>have to wait, but i hope she doesn't have anything worse than worms.

What are you feeding her?  I would recommend getting some KMR (kitten
replacement milk) to give her as well as her regular food.  There is a product
that you can get at health food stores called Colostrum (it's not cheap though)
that comes in capsules.  You can add one capsule to a very small dish of milk
and then stir it in.  Colostrum helps the immune system.  Also, worming
medicaiton is hard on the system, so that could be making her tired as well.  I
would keep your eye on her and if you don't see improvement in a couple of
days, I would call the vet to let them know.  Here's a couple of links you
might be interested in:

http://www.bovinecolostrum.com/articles/article27.htm

http://www.colostrum-health.com/pets.htm

http://www.preciouspets.org/newsletters/021604.htm

Lauren
________
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Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
MadHatter - 11 Jun 2004 22:01 GMT
>>From: MadHatter devil_m@y_care.lost
>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
>Lauren

i am giving her purina kitten chow and various whiskies canned foods
and now is likes IAMS for kittens, which she didn't want before.  i
also give her water and milk diluted with water.  i will get her KMR.
i have to giver worm meds and iron supplements by pipette.  she puts
up a scary fight and her jaws are quite strong - she bit me,
accidentally.  i hate to see her so distressed and scared and i am
worried she is going to hate me after a while, since i have to keep
giving this to her, at least the worm meds, for another 8 days.  the
vet said i should keep giving her the iron supplement until it's done,
but i think (i have no idea how it works in kittens) she might have an
iron overload which is not good at all in people.
is there a better way to give her these?  she does not want them in
food.  tomorrow, i will have my boyfriend hold her and i'll give her
the meds.  she is incredibly wiggly and i don't want to hold her any
stronger.

thanks,

Lena
Laura R. - 11 Jun 2004 23:33 GMT
circa Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:01:06 -0400, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav,
MadHatter (devil_m@y_care.lost) said,
> i am giving her purina kitten chow and various whiskies canned foods
> and now is likes IAMS for kittens, which she didn't want before.  i
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> the meds.  she is incredibly wiggly and i don't want to hold her any
> stronger.

I guess I?d ask what your ?technique? is for holding her and
administering the meds. There are ways to hold her and administer
meds that are better than others. How are you holding her? How are
you getting her mouth open? Where are you squirting the meds?

And as far as iron overload, I?d trust your vet on that one. :-)

Laura
Signature

Experience is the name every one gives to their mistakes.
-Oscar Wilde

MadHatter - 12 Jun 2004 05:25 GMT
>circa Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:01:06 -0400, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav,
>MadHatter (devil_m@y_care.lost) said,
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
>Laura

i sit down, hold her with my left hand over her chest and her back
against me.  i hold the pipette in my right hand; i pry her mouth open
with my right hand and one finger of the left hand, stick my finger in
so that the canines don't get me and with the right hand drop the
liquid into her moth, but don't squirt it.  she kicks, writhes,
wiggles, screams, spits, scratches me and bites in the process and is
very, very unhappy.  i manage to get 0.1 of 0.2 ml in before she
escapes, then i take her again and repeat.  yeah, i'll have my
boyfriend assist me with this tomorrow. she is small, but she is quite
agile and holding her, keeping her mouth open and dispensing is
difficult with two hands.  poor thing! i hope i don't scar her for
life.  she used to sleep with us in bed, but now she doesn't want to,
well, not since she started to get sick.

Lena
Laura R. - 12 Jun 2004 11:45 GMT
circa Sat, 12 Jun 2004 00:25:14 -0400, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav,
MadHatter (devil_m@y_care.lost) said,
> i sit down, hold her with my left hand over her chest and her back
> against me.  i hold the pipette in my right hand; i pry her mouth open
> with my right hand and one finger of the left hand, stick my finger in
> so that the canines don't get me and with the right hand drop the
> liquid into her moth, but don't squirt it.

Into the front of her mouth, the side, or the back, by her throat?

Laura
Signature

Experience is the name every one gives to their mistakes.
-Oscar Wilde

MadHatter - 12 Jun 2004 17:05 GMT
 

>circa Sat, 12 Jun 2004 00:25:14 -0400, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav,
>MadHatter (devil_m@y_care.lost) said,
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>Laura

the front, onto her tongue.  i think i might have put it from the side
too.

-L
Laura R. - 13 Jun 2004 00:21 GMT
circa Sat, 12 Jun 2004 12:05:53 -0400, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav,
MadHatter (devil_m@y_care.lost) said,

> >circa Sat, 12 Jun 2004 00:25:14 -0400, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav,
> >MadHatter (devil_m@y_care.lost) said,
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> the front, onto her tongue.  i think i might have put it from the side
> too.

Try it way at the back of the side of her mouth, aiming towards her
throat when you do the drops- she won't taste it as much and with any
luck, you'll be able to get it in with a little less struggle.

Laura
Signature

Experience is the name every one gives to their mistakes.
-Oscar Wilde

PawsForThought - 13 Jun 2004 16:58 GMT
>From: MadHatter devil_m@y_care.lost

>i have to giver worm meds and iron supplements by pipette.  she puts
>up a scary fight and her jaws are quite strong - she bit me,
>accidentally.  i hate to see her so distressed and scared and i am
>worried she is going to hate me after a while, since i have to keep
>giving this to her, at least the worm meds, for another 8 days.

I know how you feel.  Any time I had to give meds, I always thought my cat
would hate me.  But they don't, so try not to worry :)

> the
>vet said i should keep giving her the iron supplement until it's done,
>but i think (i have no idea how it works in kittens) she might have an
>iron overload which is not good at all in people.

I would follow the vet's advice in this case as it sounds like your kitty needs
the iron.

>is there a better way to give her these?  she does not want them in
>food.  tomorrow, i will have my boyfriend hold her and i'll give her
>the meds.  she is incredibly wiggly and i don't want to hold her any
>stronger.

I would recommend getting a cat piller.  It's a thin syringe that has a rubber
cup on the end that holds the pill.  Then you just shoot it in towards the back
of their mouth.  I would also recommend that you wrap your kitten in a towel
with just her head sticking out and let your boyfriend hold her like that.
Should help with the squirming.

>i am giving her purina kitten chow and various whiskies canned foods
>and now is likes IAMS for kittens, which she didn't want before.  i
>also give her water and milk diluted with water.  

I'm not a big fan of these foods.  Personally, I think Wellness canned for
kittens would be better.  Others that come to mind are Precise, Nature's
Variety, Petguard, or Felidae.

Hope kitty starts feeling better soon,

Lauren
________
See my cats:  http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
Laura R. - 13 Jun 2004 18:20 GMT
circa 13 Jun 2004 15:58:46 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav,
PawsForThought (darnit7@aol.comnolitter) said,
> I would recommend getting a cat piller.  It's a thin syringe that has a rubber
> cup on the end that holds the pill.  Then you just shoot it in towards the back
> of their mouth.  I would also recommend that you wrap your kitten in a towel
> with just her head sticking out and let your boyfriend hold her like that.
> Should help with the squirming.

She can't use a piller, because these are liquid meds.
Signature

Experience is the name every one gives to their mistakes.
-Oscar Wilde

MadHatter - 13 Jun 2004 18:48 GMT
>>From: MadHatter devil_m@y_care.lost
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>I know how you feel.  Any time I had to give meds, I always thought my cat
>would hate me.  But they don't, so try not to worry :)

good!  thanks for reassuring me.  she is doing much better now and is
more lively.  she was sitting on a window sill today, enjoying the
sunshine and playing with plants.  i'm going to get her a plant to
play with where she can reach it.

>> the
>>vet said i should keep giving her the iron supplement until it's done,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>I would follow the vet's advice in this case as it sounds like your kitty needs
>the iron.

i spoke with the vet and  she told me that it's actually a
multivitamin solution, not just iron, so i'm not worried.  albon, is
the antibiotic that treats various bacteria and coccidia, that's the
other medicine i give her.

>>is there a better way to give her these?  she does not want them in
>>food.  tomorrow, i will have my boyfriend hold her and i'll give her
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>with just her head sticking out and let your boyfriend hold her like that.
>Should help with the squirming.

that's what we did yesterday.  we wrapped her in a cloth, my boyfriend
held her, and i gave her the meds, which are liquid, through the
pipette.  she handled it much better.

>>i am giving her purina kitten chow and various whiskies canned foods
>>and now is likes IAMS for kittens, which she didn't want before.  i
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>kittens would be better.  Others that come to mind are Precise, Nature's
>Variety, Petguard, or Felidae.

i just ordered a bunch of food her, wet and dry, for from
petsmart.com.  i got Nutro Max and sophisticat, both for kittens.

>Hope kitty starts feeling better soon,

thanks.

>Lauren
>________
Laura R. - 11 Jun 2004 23:17 GMT
circa Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:43:36 -0400, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav,
MadHatter (devil_m@y_care.lost) said,

> she said that i shouldn't bring another kitten until this one is
> healthy.  i am worried, though, because she is still lethargic and
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> during the day bothers her.  i know i just took her to the vet, so i
> have to wait, but i hope she doesn't have anything worse than worms.

In addition to what Lauren said, bear in mind that anemia can really
sap her energy.

This is from felinecrf.org, but it?s a description of the signs of
anemia:

Signs of anaemia include:  

Nausea
This is quite common in anaemic cats; other causes include stomach
acid and high phosphorus levels.

Lack of Appetite
This is very common in anaemic cats; see stomach acid and high
phosphorus levels for other possible causes.

Feeling Cold
Your cat may seek to lie in warm places, and/or may be hunched up in
an attempt to keep warm: this is commonly a sign of anaemia.

Lip Licking
This is more commonly associated with stomach acid, but in some cats
it may be a symptom of anaemia.

Pale Gums and Eyelids
This occurs in anaemia because the blood flow to the skin is reduced.

Lethargy
This is caused by lower levels of oxygen in the blood which in turn
is caused by anaemia.

Weakness, especially in the back legs
This is very common in anaemia; Thomas became unable to jump on the
bed. See also low potassium, metabolic acidosis and high phosphorus.

Heavy breathing and wheezing and fast heart rate
These may be related to a heart condition or to high blood pressure,
but anaemia may in itself cause heart problems and high blood
pressure: your vet can determine which came first.

Eating Litter/Licking Concrete
This is known as pica. Many vets are not aware of this symptom in
relation to CRF-induced anaemia, but if a CRF cat suddenly starts
eating litter, PCV levels (anaemia measurement)  should always be
tested. Thomas was already being treated for anaemia when he began to
eat his litter. Sure enough, when we tested him, his anaemia had
worsened, so we increased his medication and as soon as his anaemia
improved his litter eating stopped.
Very occasionally, licking concrete is a sign of a calcium
deficiency.

Also from felinecrf.org:
? What is Anaemia?
Anaemia is a condition in which not enough red blood cells exist in
the body. Red blood cells transport oxygen round the body, so if a
cat does not have enough, he/she will not be able to function
properly and will feel very tired and weak; other symptoms are
discussed below.  Red blood cells are produced in the bone marrow and
last for around 70-80 days in cats.?

Basically, it?s really not surprising that your kitten is lethargic
since she?s anemic, and you shouldn?t expect that to clear up
instantly as her little body has to make more red blood cells first.
:-)

Laura
Signature

Experience is the name every one gives to their mistakes.
-Oscar Wilde

Laura R. - 11 Jun 2004 03:27 GMT
circa Thu, 10 Jun 2004 19:47:22 -0400, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav,
MadHatter (devil_m@y_care.lost) said,
> i just brought her back from the vet. she is, in fact, slightly sick.
> i thought she still might have worms and she does.  they needed a
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> she is still kinda sleepy, but she was very lively in the office and
> sat on the receptionist's shoulder while i went to get her a carrier.

I'm so glad to hear that you got her to the vet and that it's nothing
serious. That's excellent news!

Laura
Signature

Experience is the name every one gives to their mistakes.
-Oscar Wilde

Sherry - 11 Jun 2004 03:56 GMT
>> she is still kinda sleepy, but she was very lively in the office and
>> sat on the receptionist's shoulder while i went to get her a carrier.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Laura
Piggybacking a big me-too. I bet you're going to have a real hooli-kitten who's
bouncing off the walls in no time, as soon as she's feeling better.

Sherry
PawsForThought - 11 Jun 2004 13:28 GMT
>From: MadHatter devil_m@y_care.lost

>i just brought her back from the vet. she is, in fact, slightly sick.
>i thought she still might have worms and she does.

>when i came back, i gave her the iron supplement first.  ooooh, she
>was so unhappy about that!  it took me 3 tries to give her 0.2 ml via
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>be handled in such a manner.  she had some water and now is sleeping.
>i hope her mood picks up soon.

Hi Lena
Glad to hear it's nothing too serious.  Just keep up with the meds and I'm sure
she'll feel better soon.  It might take a couple of weeks to get her energy
back though.  I hope kitty is feel better soon :)

Lauren
________
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Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
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Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
Mary - 11 Jun 2004 02:48 GMT
> i'm taking her to see a vet ASAP today, at 3pm.

Lena, let us know how it goes. We'll be thinking about her.
MadHatter - 11 Jun 2004 20:44 GMT
>> i'm taking her to see a vet ASAP today, at 3pm.
>
>Lena, let us know how it goes. We'll be thinking about her.

thanks.  she eats fine and they didn't find this parasite,
gerardia(?), in her stool, which is good, but she is much too sleepy
and doesn't play.  i hope she gets better over time.

-L
PawsForThought - 10 Jun 2004 00:29 GMT
>From: MadHatter orlies@hotmail.com

>so i had some concerns earlier about my kitten not eating, but she
>seems fine now and eats well now, but she is no longer playful.  she's
>mostly sleeps and eats.  when i just brought her, she was all about
>catching and climbing and hunting our hands and gently biting, just as
>one would expect a kitten to do.

You are going to take her to a vet, right?  She definitely needs to be seen.
________
See my cats:  http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
Laura R. - 10 Jun 2004 00:45 GMT
circa Wed, 09 Jun 2004 17:35:43 -0400, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav,
MadHatter (orlies@hotmail.com) said,
> so i had some concerns earlier about my kitten not eating, but she
> seems fine now and eats well now, but she is no longer playful.  she's
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> was an extremely lively and curious kitty.  she was also kinda
> vicious, but we expected a cat to hunt.  

Has she been thoroughly checked out by a vet? That's not normal
behavior for a kitten.

Laura
Signature

Experience is the name every one gives to their mistakes.
-Oscar Wilde

Sherry - 10 Jun 2004 01:19 GMT
The kitten is sick. Check the color of her gums. Are they pink or pale? Does
she have fleas?
Please get her to the vet. Something is dreadfully wrong with a kitten that's
quiet.

Sherry
Barb - 10 Jun 2004 00:46 GMT
Seems like your kitten still ought to be playing a lot.  Are you giving her
good, nutritious kitten food?  What does the vet say?

--
Barb
Of course I don't look busy,
I did it right the first time.
Mary - 10 Jun 2004 01:51 GMT
> so i had some concerns earlier about my kitten not eating, but she
> seems fine now and eats well now, but she is no longer playful.

Gosh, give her some time! She has been through a lot, and like any baby
thing (or living thing, for that matter) she will go through phases all her
life.
kaeli - 10 Jun 2004 14:47 GMT
> why wouldn't
> an otherwise healthy 7 week-old kitty run around and play?  

How do you know she's healthy? Has she seen a vet?
What is she eating? Kittens need high protein kitten food.
Are her gums nice and dark pink?
Are her eyes clear? Her nose? Kittens get "colds" (URIs) rather easily.
When was the last time she was around any other cat? Is she vaccinated?
7 weeks is very young to be away from Mama. Her immune system is far
from "done", so to speak.

Don't get another kitten until you know this one is all healthy (that
means a VET says so). URIs spread and are very common in kittens from
catteries, shelters and pet stores simply because there are so many cats
in one spot and lots of people touching them and passing germs.

Signature

--
~kaeli~
Those who get too big for their britches will be exposed in
the end.
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