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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / June 2004toxoplasmosis
I'm just having a little argument with my wife about toxoplasmosis. She insists pregnant women should not clean a cat litter box because of toxoplasmosis (note: this is just an academic debate, she is not pregnant). I think that if the cats are house cats and are not allowed out of the house, then there is no way they can carry the bacteria, thus pose zero risk. I've scoured the net and found sites that try to scare the crap out of pregnant women, others that say even outdoor cats are a tiny risk, but nothing that really discusses house cats. I'd like to find a good documented source to show that house cats pose no risk, or something proving me wrong. Thanks! The book Think Like a Cat by Pam Johnson-Bennett supports your argument. Toxoplasmosis comes from the car's prey. If you have an indoor cat, then presumably, they are not catching their own food and not consuming uncooked meat. The parasite can also be caught from not preparing meat properly in the kitchen, completely unrelated to the activity of a a cat. The book suggests that if pregnant women wear gloves and/or wash their hands while scooping they can remain safe. jacquel > I'm just having a little argument with my wife about toxoplasmosis. She > insists pregnant women should not clean a cat litter box because of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > documented source to show that house cats pose no risk, or something proving > me wrong. Thanks! > I'm just having a little argument with my wife about toxoplasmosis. She > insists pregnant women should not clean a cat litter box because of > toxoplasmosis (note: this is just an academic debate, she is not pregnant). > I think that if the cats are house cats and are not allowed out of the > house, then there is no way they can carry the bacteria, thus pose zero > risk. My recollection is that there is still a slight risk. I recollect this because I turned over all duties of litter box cleaning to my DH when we had a 100% indoor cat. Google "Hillary" and "toxoplasmosis". You should find a wonderful sheet that she has written up and posted here many times that is more informative than any lay person ever really needs :)  SignatureRhiannon Mom to M. Girl (2 3/4 years) and O. Boy (11 months) circa Thu, 03 Jun 2004 14:12:07 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Rob (rob@nospam.com) said, > I'm just having a little argument with my wife about toxoplasmosis. She > insists pregnant women should not clean a cat litter box because of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > documented source to show that house cats pose no risk, or something proving > me wrong. Thanks! The risk of contracting toxoplasmosis is far higher for a pregnant woman handling raw produce or meat than one cleaning the litterbox of an indoor-only cat. With that said, since toxoplasmosis can be brought into the household via mechanisms other (and more likely) than an indoor-outdoor cat, it's impossible to say that there would be *zero* risk from an indoor-only cat. Ironically, however, the cat would likely have been infected by his/her owners instead of the other way around. If an indoor-only cat is ever given raw meat to eat, for example, the cat could carry toxoplasmosis. Sorry I can't provide you a link that will win your argument for you or definitively prove you wrong, but these may help: http://tinyurl.com/38auo http://www.womens-health.co.uk/toxo.htm http://familydoctor.org/180.xml Laura SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. Well, it depends, I HAVE to change my cats litter because my husband said "It is your cat, not mine." and since I dont want to get rid of the cat I asked thedr if changing the cat box really put me at a high risk considering these things. 1.) Toxoplasmosis is a 1 time only thing. 2.) I have had cats since I was born so the odds of me not already coming in contact with it are slim. 3.) You can wear gloves while changing litter cutting your contact down even more. My dr. just said to be sure that I was my hands after I handle the litter and I should be fine. And since really you should wash your hands ANYWAY I guess that is good advice. About the indoor/outdoor cat thing I would think that if the kittens mother had the disease then the kittens would have it as well... so I dont think it matters one way or the other. I would not say that any cat has a zero risk of having it since at one point all cats are in the company of anouther cat. Tori -- Bonnie 3/20/02 Anna or Xavier due 10/17/04 > I'm just having a little argument with my wife about toxoplasmosis. She > insists pregnant women should not clean a cat litter box because of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > documented source to show that house cats pose no risk, or something proving > me wrong. Thanks! > I'm just having a little argument with my wife about toxoplasmosis. She > insists pregnant women should not clean a cat litter box because of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > documented source to show that house cats pose no risk, or something proving > me wrong. Thanks! *If* the cat has been completely and totally indoors for more than 35 days, has eating *nothing* but commercially prepared food (no hunting), and uses only its own litter box, then the odds of the cat having toxoplasmosis are extremely small. However, because the consequences to the unborn child can be so devastating, it is recommended that pregnant women err on the side of caution either by not changing cat litter at all, or by wearing gloves and cleaning the litter box twice a day and washing thoroughly afterwards. If the cat does not meet all the above conditions, there is a chance that the cat could have toxoplasmosis. Roughly a third of all women have had toxoplasmosis, and they mostly got it from their pet cats, so it's hardly rare. Of course, in addition, pregnancy women should take caution with outdoor gardening and raw or undercooked meats as well. Best wishes, Ericka *I'm just having a little argument with my wife about toxoplasmosis. She *insists pregnant women should not clean a cat litter box because of *toxoplasmosis (note: this is just an academic debate, she is not pregnant). *I think that if the cats are house cats and are not allowed out of the *house, then there is no way they can carry the bacteria, thus pose zero *risk. It's not a bacteria, it is a parasite. Housecats absolutely can shed oocysts which become infectious - but the oocysts have to sporulate 24 hrs to do so. You are both wrong. http://www.hillary.net/school/toxo.txt Signaturehillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net info@hillary.net "uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est." not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :) great article, thanks very much. > *I'm just having a little argument with my wife about toxoplasmosis. She > *insists pregnant women should not clean a cat litter box because of [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > http://www.hillary.net/school/toxo.txt Just offer to change the cat litter for her once she is pregnant. Don't bother trying to WIN this argument. Just go for the bonus points. : ) SignatureJamie & Taylor Earth Angel, 1/3/03 Check out Taylor Marlys -- www.MyFamily.com, User ID: Clarkguest1, Password: Guest Become a member for free - go to Add Member to set up your own User ID and Password Check out our Adoption Page at http://home.earthlink.net/~jamielee6 > I'm just having a little argument with my wife about toxoplasmosis. She > insists pregnant women should not clean a cat litter box because of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > documented source to show that house cats pose no risk, or something proving > me wrong. Thanks! like i said, its an academic argument. she works in the childcare field and is often involved with expectant mothers. she told me about her friend's husband who has been changing the cat litter for 4 years now (her friend told her husband that she's not supposed to change the litter while breast feeding either, and has had three children right in a row). > Just offer to change the cat litter for her once she is pregnant. Don't > bother trying to WIN this argument. Just go for the bonus points. : ) *like i said, its an academic argument. she works in the childcare field and *is often involved with expectant mothers. she told me about her friend's *husband who has been changing the cat litter for 4 years now (her friend *told her husband that she's not supposed to change the litter while breast *feeding either, and has had three children right in a row). Academics aside, my husband has been changing the cat litter for five years in a row merely because he knows I HATE CHANGING CAT LITTER. Sometimes a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. :) That being said, I'd like to point out that I've been working with cats since I was in the sixth grade, including several years as a professional veterinary technician and more as a student and then as a graduate veterinarian. I have worked with many cats in intensive care settings with documented, active cases of toxoplasmosis. My last toxo titers were drawn when I got pregnant with my now-19 month old, and they were NEGATIVE for exposure, recent or historical. I will be having titers drawn again next week at my first prenatal visit for this pregnancy, and I have no reason to believe they will not still be negative. -h. Signaturehillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net info@hillary.net "uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est." not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :) Hi Rob; I am not 100% sure of the info I am about to give you, but this is how I understand this whole toxoplasmosis isssue. An animal (not just cats) can be a carrier of toxoplasmosis, even if it stays at home (it could have caught it from the mother) Most (if not all) pregnant women have a blood test at the beginning of their pregnancy to check for toxoplasmosis (cause it can cause defects). What many women don't realize is that it is safer to test even before conception. Also, when I had my dog, I had him checked for toxoplasmosis at the vet. (it is somewhat expensive, but better safe than sorry) A pregnant woman can clean whatever she wants to, but most pregnant women opt not to (just precautions). Besides, usually you wash your hands with soap after cleaning litter etc. The one thing that pregnant women are advised to avoid is contact with rodents (such as mice, hamsters etc) because they may carry a virus (don't remember the name of it though) that is even transferred via the air. BUT I read that it is a minute percentage of rodents (especially pet rodents) that carry that virus. Just remember that this is Info that I gathered & unfortunately, I do not have anything to support it at the time being. I found it all online though. Mona due 07-31-04 > I'm just having a little argument with my wife about toxoplasmosis. She > insists pregnant women should not clean a cat litter box because of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > documented source to show that house cats pose no risk, or something proving > me wrong. Thanks! *Most (if not all) pregnant women have a blood test at the beginning of *their pregnancy to check for toxoplasmosis (cause it can cause defects). Of course, a positive IgG is comforting in early pregnancy, whereas a positive IgM is greatly concerning, and believe it or not, there are obstetricians who do not understand that. *What many women don't realize is that it is safer to test even before *conception. Also, when I had my dog, I had him checked for toxoplasmosis *at the vet. (it is somewhat expensive, but better safe than sorry) Why on earth would you do that? Dogs do not shed toxoplasma oocysts. Unless you were planning on EATING your dog (and eating him undercooked at that), I do not understand how you would contract toxoplasma from your dog. The cat is the definitive host for toxoplasma, and the parasite can not form the oocyst stage outside of the definitive host. Can you elaborate on why exactly you spent money on a toxo test for your dog? I hope your vet didn't recommend you do this... Signaturehillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net info@hillary.net "uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est." not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :) http://www.avma.org/careforanimals/animatedjourneys/pethealth/pethealth.asp "Since its discovery, toxoplasmosis has been found in virtually all warm-blooded animals including most pets, livestock, and human beings." read the article in full > *Most (if not all) pregnant women have a blood test at the beginning of > *their pregnancy to check for toxoplasmosis (cause it can cause defects). [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > elaborate on why exactly you spent money on a toxo test for your dog? I > hope your vet didn't recommend you do this... http://www.avma.org/careforanimals/animatedjourneys/pethealth/pethealth.asp "Since its discovery, toxoplasmosis has been found in virtually all warm-blooded animals including most pets, livestock, and human beings." read the article in full > *Most (if not all) pregnant women have a blood test at the beginning of > *their pregnancy to check for toxoplasmosis (cause it can cause defects). [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > elaborate on why exactly you spent money on a toxo test for your dog? I > hope your vet didn't recommend you do this... Toxoplasma gondii is a protozoan parasite so it doesn't act in the same way as worms or bacteria might. From my understanding, nearly any animal can act as an intermediate host for the parasite, but only cats are the definitive host, and therefore only cats shed oocysts. The parasite forms bradyzoites and tachyzoites in the tissues, and oocysts are shed. Bradyzoites remain in the tissues for the entire life of the cat, but they are usually held in check by the animal's immune system, and remain inactive. In the intermediate host there is brady/tachyzoite formation but there is no oocyst production. To be infected (as an intermediate host) you must either ingest an oocyst (from the environment, eg. by not washing veg or hands) or ingest bradyzoites or tachyzoites, (from eating meat from intermediate host that isn't cooked thoroughly). In humans infection usually results in a flu-like illness which resolves quickly and is only dangerous if the person is immunocompromised, however bradyzoites remain in body tissues for the rest of a person's life. Infection *during* pregnancy can result in tachyzoites crossing the placenta resulting in congenital toxoplasmosis. I wouldn't rely on a cat not carrying the disease because of it being a house cat. It can be exposed to oocysts in the environment in the same way a person can, and is less likely to wash its hands! Oocysts can be spread by flies, carried in on shoes, food etc. Another possible route of infection that is probably irrelevant to most people is transmission from sheep during assisted lambings. An important thing to remember is that it takes 24 hours for oocysts to become sporolated, ie. to be activated and capable of causing an infection if ingested, so ideally if you have to clean the litter tray, you should be doing it thoroughly *at least* once a day. Hope that helps clear things up a bit Sorry its a bit long! Amy http://www.avma.org/careforanimals/animatedjourneys/pethealth/pethealth.asp > "Since its discovery, toxoplasmosis has been found in virtually all > warm-blooded animals including most pets, livestock, and human beings." [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > elaborate on why exactly you spent money on a toxo test for your dog? I > > hope your vet didn't recommend you do this... *"zolw" <zolwica@hotmail.com> wrote in message *news:mZawc.45380$3x.8731@attbi_s54... *> *http://www.avma.org/careforanimals/animatedjourneys/pethealth/pethealth.asp *> *> "Since its discovery, toxoplasmosis has been found in virtually all *> warm-blooded animals including most pets, livestock, and human beings." Yes, I know that. However, just because toxoplasma has been found in most mammals, there is no reason to believe most mammals can PASS ON toxoplasma. Did you read what I wrote?? Here, I will quote myself again: *> Hillary Israeli wrote: *> > *> > *What many women don't realize is that it is safer to test even before *> > *conception. Also, when I had my dog, I had him checked for *> > *> > Why on earth would you do that? Dogs do not shed toxoplasma oocysts. *> > Unless you were planning on EATING your dog (and eating him undercooked *at *> > that), I do not understand how you would contract toxoplasma from your *> > dog. The cat is the definitive host for toxoplasma, and the parasite can *> > not form the oocyst stage outside of the definitive host. Can you *> > elaborate on why exactly you spent money on a toxo test for your dog? I *> > hope your vet didn't recommend you do this... ONLY CATS are the definitive host. ONLY CATS can shed the infectious part of the life cycle. This is not in dispute by the AVMA. The article you suggest I read confirms this when it says "Of all the infected animals tested, only cats are the perfect hosts for the production of the infectious and resistant Toxoplasma oocysts. The oocyst, released from the intestine of cats in their feces, is very hardy and can survive sleet, freezing, and even several months of extreme heat and dehydration." Note there is nothing about the oocyst being released from anyone else's intestine. ONLY CATS. What exactly was it you thought I would get from this article that would support testing of a dog owned by a pregnant woman?? Believe me, if I thought there were ANY chance a woman could get toxo from her dog without eating the dog, I'd be telling my pregnant clients about it. So, why again did you waste your money testing your dog? Was it your OB or your vet who suggested it? I would ask for my money back if it was one of them. If it was you, well, live and learn and now you know :) -h. -- hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net info@hillary.net "uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est." not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :) circa Mon, 7 Jun 2004 11:59:23 +0000 (UTC), in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Hillary Israeli (hillary@hillary.net) said, > *> "Since its discovery, toxoplasmosis has been found in virtually all > *> warm-blooded animals including most pets, livestock, and human beings." > > Yes, I know that. However, just because toxoplasma has been found in most > mammals, there is no reason to believe most mammals can PASS ON > toxoplasma. Did you read what I wrote?? Here, I will quote myself again: Did you read what *Amy* wrote? She wasn't disagreeing with you. Perhaps you should chill out and apologize for jumping down the throat of somebody who was _supporting_ your statements. Laura SignatureExperience is the name every one gives to their mistakes. -Oscar Wilde *circa Mon, 7 Jun 2004 11:59:23 +0000 (UTC), in *rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Hillary Israeli (hillary@hillary.net) *said, *> *> "Since its discovery, toxoplasmosis has been found in virtually all *> *> warm-blooded animals including most pets, livestock, and human beings." *> *> Yes, I know that. However, just because toxoplasma has been found in most *> mammals, there is no reason to believe most mammals can PASS ON *> toxoplasma. Did you read what I wrote?? Here, I will quote myself again: *> *Did you read what *Amy* wrote? She wasn't disagreeing with you. *Perhaps you should chill out and apologize for jumping down the *throat of somebody who was _supporting_ your statements. Amy doesn't have anything to do with it. I did not quote amy. I quoted the person who said she tested her dog. You are now quoting me quoting that person. Clearly my response was directed toward the person who tested her dog, because I specifically asked again "why did you test your dog" and suggested that if it were upon the suggestion of the OB or the vet, she request a refund. Perhaps YOU should chill out and apologize for assuming I was even talking to Amy, I don't know. I don't think it's necessary, but some might. I would just chalk it up to poor news threading and move on. Signaturehillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net info@hillary.net "uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est." not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :) Hey Rob, me again, I found this article about toxoplasmosis & cats http://www.womens-health.co.uk/toxo.htm > I'm just having a little argument with my wife about toxoplasmosis. She > insists pregnant women should not clean a cat litter box because of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > documented source to show that house cats pose no risk, or something proving > me wrong. Thanks! > I'm just having a little argument with my wife about toxoplasmosis. She > insists pregnant women should not clean a cat litter box because of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > documented source to show that house cats pose no risk, or something proving > me wrong. Thanks! Cleaning the litter box is a man's job. Get busy and do it! ;) Signature"Its the bugs that keep it running." -Joe Canuck > I'm just having a little argument with my wife about toxoplasmosis. She > insists pregnant women should not clean a cat litter box because of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > documented source to show that house cats pose no risk, or something proving > me wrong. Thanks! There is always some risk, but it's low. If mice ever come into your house, then your house cat can contract the virus by eating the mice. However, the cat is only contagious during the active infection, which lasts around 2 weeks. After that, they are immune from the disease, and don't shed the stuff in their poop. If a human is exposed to Toxo, they too will become immune, and immunity can be measured with a blood test. When I had my pre-pregnancy physical, I had the blood titre, where it was discovered that I was not immune from Toxo. When I was pregnant, I took two precautions - I wore rubber gloves when scooping, and I made sure the boxes were scooped, either by me or my husband EVERY day. Evidently, the eggs or whatever it is, hatches after a few days and gets more contagious. After scooping, I washed my hands while wearing the gloves, then I took the gloves off and hung them up to dry. I then washed my hands again without the gloves. My midwives told me to wear gloves and to wash up carefully, but told me that the risk of toxo was very, very low. Evidently you are more likely to get toxo from raw meat than from cats, but YMMV. Search for posts by Mary S. that contain the word toxoplasmosis. Her husband got it while she was pregnant. Their cat contracted it from eating raw chicken that had been left on the counter. Cathy Weeks Mommy to Kivi Alexis 12/01 |
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