I would highly suggest giving him a wet food with NO carbs. The Porta
21 sounds like a better choice than the Hills. Some cats can't
tolerate fish, so as a precaution I would avoid all fish products as
well.
I have a friend who has a cat with chronic cystitis. You can email me
directly and I can give you her info.
Rene
Nadia N. - 27 Aug 2008 20:14 GMT
> I would highly suggest giving him a wet food with NO carbs. The Porta
> 21 sounds like a better choice than the Hills. Some cats can't
> tolerate fish, so as a precaution I would avoid all fish products as
> well.
Interesting. I hadn't heard that it was bad to give cats with cystitis
carbs... I never liked the Hill's much, because of all the wheat and
maize in it, but unfortunately my choices of wet food are limited here
in Spain. I was lucky to find a tiny pet store which carried the Porta 21.
If I could be completely certain that the Porta 21 really is a complete
food, I would stop feeding the Hill's altogether. I'm still researching
what kinds of vitamins and other supplements cats need in their diet,
and in what quantities. Once I have that figured out, I'll be able to
tell what, if any, vitamins and supplements I'll have to give Kotyo if I
switch him completely over to the Porta 21, and then it'll be bye-bye
Hill's :-)
Thank you very much for your reply.
Nadia (and Kotyo and little Sweety)

Signature
Little Monster pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Kotyo
Sweety pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Sweety
> A couple of weeks ago my 7 year old cat Kotyo had his latest cystitis
> flare-up. It was much worse than previous ones - he had two flare-ups in
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> his spasm pill that the vet has given me for the flare-ups
> (Phenoxybenzamine),
Phenoxybenzamine is usually given to cats recovering from urethral
obstructions to reduce urethral smooth muscle spasms and cats with bladder
smooth muscle dysfunction. Your cat's problem is caused by inflammation of
the urothelium- not detrusor dysfuntion. Phenoxybenzamine can accumulate in
body fat - cats are very sensitive to phenols. Also, phenoxybenzamine has
been shown to have carcinogenic potential and will probably be discontinued.
I would get a second opinion on that- quick- if not sooner.
and I give him lots of liquids so that he has
> something to pass when he tries to pee and doesn't hurt himself
> straining on an empty bladder. He keeps running to the litterbox every
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> only once every 12 hours. Without the added water he would pee no more
> than once every 24 hours.
Excellent. Glucosamine is a glycosaminoglycan (GAG) which should help
repair and strengthen the GAG layer that coats the bladder wall.
Interstitial cystitis in cats is belived to be caused by a defect in the GAG
layer which can allow urine to penetrate the bladder mucosa (urothelium) and
cause inflammation. The GAG supplement might take a few weeks to start
working. If you notice a decrease in the severity and recurrence of
symptoms while he taking it, you should probably give it to him
indefinitely.
> I used to give him a tiny bit of dry food as a treat each day - no more
> than 10 bits of kibble of Royal Canin Sensitive. I have stopped this
> now, because I read here that cats with cystitis shouldn't get any dry
> food at all. But I'd like to know why dry food is bad for cats prone to
> cystitis? Is it because cats fed dry food don't drink as much,
Actually, cats fed dry food drink about 6x more water than cats fed canned
food with 78-80% moisture content- but their total water intake and water
turnover is a lot less than cats fed canned. Many studies have been done on
this.
Here's an excerpt from my notes from "Water Balance in the Dog and Cat" by
Anderson RS in the Journal of Small Animal Practice 23, 588-98.
"The total free water intake (from food and drinking water) decreases when
cats are fed dry food only, so that the water to dry matter intake ratio
when fed on commercial dry foods varies from 2.0 to 2.8: 1 whereas on canned
foods it varies from 3. 0 to 5.7: 1. Thus for any given dry matter intake
cats have a higher water turnover on canned than on dry foods.
The National Research Council also cited the results of several studies with
similar findings in The Nutrient Requirements of Cats
Cats can't meet their total water requirement by only drinking because they
have a relatively weak thurst drive. That's why there are all sorts of water
fountains and other gimmicks to get cats to drink more water. During their
evolution they adapted to obtain nearly all their water needs from the
moisture in their prey. So, their thirst drive never fully developed- it
didn't have to- that is until some "genius" came up with the idea of feeding
cereal to a canivore...
Here's an excerpt from one of many studies conducted by Dr. Tony Buffington
(Diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Nutrition) in lower urinary
tract disorders of cats:
"Clinical evaluation of cats with nonobstructive urinary tract diseases"
J Am Vet Med Assoc 1997 Jan 1;210(1):46-50:
"Cats with idiopathic cystitis were significantly more likely to eat dry
food exclusively (59%) than were cats in the general population (19%).
CLINICAL IMPLICATIONS: Results suggest that idiopathic cystitis occurs
commonly in cats with stranguria, hematuria, pollakiuria, or inappropriate
elimination and is associated with consumption of dry foods".
or is it
> because of what's in the dry food itself? I
Dry food itself doesn't actually cause feline interstitial cystitis (FIC)
but it can aggravate or exacerbate it in cats that are predisposed to it.
Unfortunately, there's no way of knowing which cats are predisposed to FIC
until its too late. Once its unmasked it can be difficult to manage. Since
there's no benefit to the cat in feeding dry food, there's no reason to take
the chance. The main problem with dry food is lower water intake, water
turnover, urine volume, and less frequent urination. With canned food, water
intake and urine volume are higher- which dilutes all the irritating
substances in the urine without increasing the pH.. A higher urine volume
also results in more frequent urination, so, urine isn't in contact with the
bladder wall for long periods of time.
Some vets suspect feeding dry food can also increase the risk of anal sac
disease because the stools of dry-fed cats are softer because they contain
more water and don't express the anal sacs as well as cats fed canned food
when the cat poops. Make sense to me.
f it's not because of the
> ingredients, I would like to continue to give him his treat - he still
> begs me for it every day, and he can't understand why I won't give it to
> him anymore.
I don't think the small amount of dry food you're talking about will cause a
problem. But as long as you keep giving it to him he will be expecting it.
> Also, can I give him fish-based cat food? I have occasionally given him
> some fish wet food - tuna flakes in aloe gel, chunks of sardines and
> mackerel. Is it ok to give him that from time to time, or should I stop
> giving any fish at all? He does go crazy for the fish. In fact, it was
> the only thing he would eat when he was on antibiotics after his latest
> cystitis flare-up.
I don't think 'occasionally' would be a problem.
> He also likes to eat a bit of cucumber and he always gets some when
> we're making a salad. He used to only like the peel, but now he also
> likes the actual cucumber. Does anyone know if it's ok to give him that?
> My vet had told me that it won't hurt him, but I don't know if it might
> not contribute to cystitis flare-ups?
Unlikely.
I haven't been able to find any
> info linking cucumbers to cystitis, but then again most cats don't eat
> cucumber...
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> ingredients. (The fish canned food I mentioned earlier was also of the
> Porta 21 brand. This is cat food made by a German company -
http://www.portacat.de/catalog/product_info.php/info/p52_Feline-Porta-21-chicken
-in-it--180-s-own-juice.html).
> I had wanted to switch him to the Feline Porta 21 food only and stop
> giving him the Hill's, but even though on the label of the Porta 21 it
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> Is there anything in these ingredients which should not be eaten by a
> cat prone to cystits?
Not that I can see.
> What else can I do to help him? Any other supplements, vitamins I should
> be giving him? I would like to hear any ideas or suggestions you might
> have. If you've had cats prone to cystitis, what did you do to help
> reduce/prevent flare-ups?
Stress is probably the strongest potentiator of flair-ups of FIC.
Minimizing stress should be #2 on your list. If your cat is easily
stressed, he might benefit from low-dose amitriptyline. Along with reducing
the effects of stress, amitriptyline also possesses analgesic and
anti-inflammatory properties. I'm not a strong proponent of using drugs in
cats if there's an alternative, but of a lot of cats with FIC have had
dramatic reductions in symptoms and a better quality of life from
amitriptyline.
Best of luck,
Phil
> thanks,
> Nadia (and Kotyo and little Sweety)
Nadia N. - 27 Aug 2008 20:14 GMT
>> couple of hours ago, I know he's got another cystitis attack. I give him
>> his spasm pill that the vet has given me for the flare-ups
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> been shown to have carcinogenic potential and will probably be discontinued.
> I would get a second opinion on that- quick- if not sooner.
It's carcinogenic?! OMG. I had no idea. The Phenoxybenzamine was given
to me by Kotyo's vet in Canada when he had his first cystitis flare-up.
At the time we didn't know it was cystitis yet, but even after that
diagnosis the vet said that it was ok to give him the pill when he had a
flare-up and that it would help relieve the symptoms. And when I brought
Kotyo to the vet here in Spain two weeks ago during his latest cystitis
flare-up, I showed him the bottle and told him I had been giving Kotyo
Phenoxybenzamine, and he said that it was ok, too... I will definitely
not be giving him any more of those pills... I hope I haven't given him
enough to harm him. He's had about 6-7 flare-ups so far, and I've given
him half a 5mg pill each time...
> Excellent. Glucosamine is a glycosaminoglycan (GAG) which should help
> repair and strengthen the GAG layer that coats the bladder wall.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> symptoms while he taking it, you should probably give it to him
> indefinitely.
Yes, that's my plan. I got a bottle of 250 pills (125 mg each) and I'm
giving him 2 per day for the first week, and then 1 per day until we run
out. That should last us for almost 6 months, which should be enough to
know if it's helping or not.
<snip info about dry food and water intake>
> Dry food itself doesn't actually cause feline interstitial cystitis (FIC)
> but it can aggravate or exacerbate it in cats that are predisposed to it.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> also results in more frequent urination, so, urine isn't in contact with the
> bladder wall for long periods of time.
<snip>
> f it's not because of the
>> ingredients, I would like to continue to give him his treat - he still
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I don't think the small amount of dry food you're talking about will cause a
> problem. But as long as you keep giving it to him he will be expecting it.
I didn't think a few bits of kibble would cause a problem either. But I
have been trying to figure out what was different in Kotyo's diet before
this latest flare-up, and one thing I came up with is that he's been
snacking on the new kitten's dry food. Not a lot, because I hide her
bowl as soon as she's finished eating, but he was managing to pick up a
few extra kibbles that way. I have made sure that this will not happen
anymore - I am switching her to wet food only, so soon there should be
no kibble to steal.
> Stress is probably the strongest potentiator of flair-ups of FIC.
> Minimizing stress should be #2 on your list. If your cat is easily
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> dramatic reductions in symptoms and a better quality of life from
> amitriptyline.
Yes, I have read about stress being a primary cause of cystitis
flare-ups. Could very hot weather cause stress, I wonder? The day that
Kotyo had his flare-up was the hottest day of the year - 37 degrees (99
degrees Fahrenheit). He seems to actually like the heat - he's always
lying in the sun, and if we turn on the air conditioning he tries to
find the warmest spot in the apartment. But he is a long-haired cat.
Maybe the heat was stressing him out even though he likes it... I've
started to turn on the air conditioning more often since his flare-up,
just in case it was the heat that caused the latest flare-up.
Thanks for the info about the amitriptyline. I don't think that at this
point he needs to be on it, but if his symptoms worsen I'll definitely
consider it. For now I am thinking of getting a couple of Feliway
diffusers for the apartment. I know Feliway doesn't work for all cats,
but it doesn't hurt to try.
> Best of luck,
>
> Phil
Thank you very much for all the information and advice, Phil.
Nadia (and Kotyo and little Sweety)

Signature
Little Monster pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Kotyo
Sweety pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Sweety